8 ms·

Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

137 points by jbegley 7y ago

samirm 7y ago
This in addition to all the "security" advisories to other countries seems like a move to curb their economic growth more than anything.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  For once in 2 years though the current US admin is right IMHO. China is not an ally, Russia is not an ally. Best case they're semi-neutral, worst case they're the next enemy. China especially has been playing the ultra-long game by slowly getting more and more countries under their dependence, buying up assets left and right and where that didn't help resorting to industrial espionage. The problem that the telco operators have is that there is (thanks to Chinese dumping, did I mention they are playing a long game) next to no viable competition in either the US or the expanded NATO space - Europe has Ericsson and Nokia which are expensive and the US has Cisco which is expensive and crops up with at least one real backdoor a month.
  - wobblegong 7y ago
    Are hardware vulnerabilities so difficult to find and insidious that no amount of auditing and investigation by the US govt will ever be sufficient?
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      Given the many vulnerabilities across all vendors over the last years, secure development and operation practices are missing across the board. Cisco managed to fuck up their entire secure boot solution (https://thrangrycat.com/ https://thrangrycat.com/), Intel's ME can be taken out of service despite "firmware signing", and I presume that a proper audit by the government would have uncovered that.
    - kevin_nisbet 7y ago
      Pretty much yes, combined with having to fully audit the software top to bottom every couple of weeks for every patch, piece of firmware, etc with pressure to get into production fixes for issues that affect customers service. From my experience in the industry, most of the protections being offered are hand-wavy things, like a software patch from Huawei being scanned by a desktop virus scanner for viruses or remote access gateways that record the screens of external employees accessing equipment where the demo I got for the solution the security prime couldn't figure out how to actually view the screen recordings. Huawei employees weren't allowed to give us any USB devices either. (I didn't work with Huawei routinely, although I know many who do. I tended to work with Cisco, Nokia, and several smaller vendors). The only model I could see sort of working is forcing them to hand over the sources to an industry group or government entity, that is then responsible for auditing, building, and signing the software. But there are so many moving components slipping something past that is still plausible, and many barriers towards that sort of model.
  - AcerbicZero 7y ago
    I agree, to a point. I'm not entirely opposed to Trump (or entirely in favor) but it seems if we're going to be stuck playing economic realpolitik with a country as nationalized as China this is a perfectly reasonable step. The US and its allies have not been particularly good stewards with the power they've held over the world for the last ~70+ years, but I shudder to think of what a Chinese controlled network backbone would do to things. You can argue the West doesn't behave as well as it should on the world stage, but Western ideology seems to be the best hope we have for an eventual egalitarian future, although the human cost will still be high. The further we get from authoritarianism, be it left or right, the better, in my opinion.
  - solotronics 7y ago
    Are you talking specifically about 5G?
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      Mostly yes. The thing is that what we see in 5G with China is also happening in other areas as well, both in IT (think of how much of our stuff is produced in China!) and outside of IT (Belt Road initiative). When it comes to China and Russia, what they are doing is a plan of the sort that can only be done in an authoritarian, controlled state.
  - lowken10 7y ago
    Name one thing Trump has been wrong about?
  - samirm 7y ago
    So? You say that like it's a problem. China being the number 1 economy is inevitable and I, for one, am looking forward to it.
- gramstrong 7y ago
  I don't doubt it, but at least some security is a side effect of that.
- dx87 7y ago
  Not really. Look at articles posted on this site whenever a device made in China is "accidentally" sending user information back to some server in China; people keep asking why the government isn't doing anything to warn citizens or companies about bad actors in the hardware department. When the government does warn us not to use hardware from a specific vendor, people here say it's just a GOP plot to hurt China's economy under the guise of security.
petschge 7y ago
The fear mongering against Huawei becomes really interesting when you look at all the "sorry, we forgot about that unintentional access possibility" incidents in Cisco gear that might either be back doors or lousy QA leading to security problems.
- mythrwy 7y ago
  All that shows is gee, it really can and really does happen. Which is a stronger argument, not weaker for suspicious treatment of Huawei by Western governments.
- mey 7y ago
  Watching from afar, the amount of huge holes in Cisco are staggering. I don't really understand IT's love of Cisco, other than that's all they've certed in/invested in/never get fired for IBM mentality. For people in the networking space, what makes you use cisco for firewalls/core routing at this point?
  - laurentdc 7y ago
    * abundance of people with Cisco knowledge and certifications, everyone has fiddled with a Cisco CLI at some point in their career * devices on the gray market are very cheap, low barrier to entry for setting up a lab or a SMB infrastructure * the lower end stuff is pretty much set and forget (e.g. we still have 1700 series devices from year 2003 routing calls without a hiccup) * "nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" company mentality
    - coding123 7y ago
      https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/
  - bane 7y ago
    Cisco is the Oracle of networking gear.
- 7y ago
EamonnMR 7y ago
What is this gonna mean for my OnePlus
- gbear605 7y ago
  Nothing, unless your cellphone is part of the infrastructure of a telecom company.
robertAngst 7y ago
Can anyone stop him? I don't want him to do this. I don't want these tariffs. Does this mean the Republican Party is compliant in this nonsense?
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  I am, for the most part, a free-trade advocate. But I have been having more and more doubts when it comes to China. Free trade has not made China a more free place. It looks like they are just using their economic power to hurt freedom everywhere.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Also, there are many limits to free trade. E.g. constant WTO lawsuits regarding one country subsidizing their own corporations. You could easily claim that all Chinese corporations are state-sponsored...
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Why should they stop him? Do you trust China? I don't.
- swebs 7y ago
  I, on the other hand, am glad these tariffs are happening. They've been a long time coming.
  - pickle-wizard 7y ago
    I really only have one problem with these tariffs. That Trump didn't get our allies to also raise their tariffs against China.
  - justAnotherNET 7y ago
    This 100%. Anyone educated on the issues beyond the surface level propaganda knows this is the right call.
  - gscott 7y ago
cletus 7y ago
This just goes to prove that even a racist clock is right twice a day [1] because it's clear that: - China has engaged in state-sponsored corporate and military espionage; and - Chinese companies are not separate from the state. The only reasonable conclusion here is that Huawei gear on key networking infrastructure represents a security threat and really that's all there is to it. I find it odd that it's taken Trump, who otherwise is a disaster on pretty much every front, to actually say what is otherwise obvious. [1]: https://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-racist-clock-4th-panel https://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-racist-clock-4...
- bvdba 7y ago
  I don't believe this is the consequence of Trump being racist.
  - deertick1 7y ago
    I don't believe trump is racist.
    - krapp 7y ago
      There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that he is[0,1], going back to lawsuits over housing discrimination in the 1970s, to his comments about wanting more immigrants from Norway rather than "shithole countries" in Africa, and of course equivocating on Charlottesville. Granted, he hasn't burned a cross on the White House lawn, but it's difficult to look at his statements and the unprecedented (and well documented) support his campaign had from racists and not conclude he probably is racist beyond a reasonable doubt. [0]https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-r... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump
      - m0zg 7y ago
        Charlottesville hoax has been debunked again and again, including by MSM outlets themselves. Read what he actually said: https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-funnel/ https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-fun...
bogomipz 7y ago
"Foreign Telecom Gear" really only ever seems to mean Huawei and China in these proclamations. The fact is the majority of Telecom gear is foreign-made with regards to the US. To wit: Alcatel-Lucent - France Nokia - Finland Siemens - Germany Samsung - Korea Fujitsu and NEC - Japan If the US were to truly enforce a domestic US-only vendor selection it would be limited to Cienna, Cisco, Qualcomm and Motorola. And to my knowledge none of those four companies are making 5G switching gear.
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  isn't all this stuff actually manufactured in China?
  - culot 7y ago
    Depends on the component or product probably. Some is, some isn't.
- nickpsecurity 7y ago
  It could get worse if you consider many companies have R&D centers in countries that like IP spying. That includes Russia and China. For China, true more often if hardware development is involved. So, Trump gonna require all potentially-subversive, foreign, R&D centers to be shut down with it all imported to America? Then require them to be US citizens born here with low risk of foreign influence? And then paid well with stable lifestyle with lower odds of bribery or blackmail? I think he has no idea what it takes to reduce foreign risk. Besides, the so-called APT's are doing a number on our Fortune 500 companies with techniques like spear fishing with PDF-looking executables. I mean, how much will blocking Chinese equipment even help such companies? ;)
mark_l_watson 7y ago
A little off topic: I think multiple countries should join together to co-sponsor security evaluation labs to check Cisco, Huawei, and all telecom companies. These labs should get access to hardware design, software, etc. This can be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property. I suspect that the top telecom tech companies would go along with this idea, to get vetted, if it would help increase their business. Right now there are two European and one Chinese company who can ship 5G gear. I would like all 5G, and older gear also, to be vetted by international security labs.
- soared 7y ago
  > This /cannot/ be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property /from spilling into other countries hands/ Fixed.
- quotz 7y ago
  Yeah, the problem is that unlike the EU and US companies, Huawei is just the institutional arm of a communist dictatorship regime masked as a company.
  - cup 7y ago
    And CIA seeded companies aren't?
    - quotz 7y ago
      USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy on foreign countries but ok.
      - monocasa 7y ago
        Yeah it's just a coincidence that Cisco can't seem to quit shipping hardcoded root backdoors to their routers... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-a...
elamje 7y ago
Is there major legitimacy to the state sponsored back doors in Huawei, or has the company just become some sort of pawn in the trade war?
waste_monk 7y ago
动态网自由门天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏土伯特唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主言論思想反共反革命抗議運動騷亂暴亂騷擾擾亂抗暴平反維權示威游行李洪志法輪大法大法弟子強制斷種強制堕胎民族淨化人體實驗肅清胡耀邦趙紫陽魏京生王丹還政於民和平演變激流中國北京之春大紀元時報九評論共産黨獨裁專制壓制統一監視鎮壓迫害侵略掠奪破壞拷問屠殺活摘器官誘拐買賣人口遊進走私毒品賣淫春畫賭博六合彩天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 Hopefully this should reduce the incidence of 50 Cent Army shills in the comments.
- toomanyrichies 7y ago
  For those confused about the Winnie the Pooh reference (like I was): https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855 https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855 Once you see it, you can’t un-see it.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't do this here. And please don't violate the site guidelines by making insinuations about astroturfing. It's a long-established rule that those are not allowed on HN, because the overwhelming majority of the time they are just an internet trope, and a poisonous one at that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
burtonator 7y ago
I'm really looking forward to a time with the United States, Russia, and China all agree to get along and decide to screw all the poor people equally instead of just trying to screw poor people in their own country.
qazqwert 7y ago
finnaly............
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stunt 7y ago
This huge international campaign including pushing other countries..! It is not about security. It is more about money. Huge influence from powerful capitalists and investors because their market and long term interests are at risk.
whitenation1488 7y ago
The CIA, their job is to protect Americans The Chinese are our enemies they want to hurt us We need to trust the CIA and distrust the chinese
whitenation1488 7y ago
Dumbest argument ever Its not hypocrisy to believe that cops should shoot criminals, but ordinary citizens doing. The CIA protects us, every action they do makes us safer. The CIA does a lot of things, but the reason is to protect us. We may not understand why they did something but their motives are always true. China is our enemy, they want to kill us

137 points by jbegley 7y ago

This in addition to all the "security" advisories to other countries seems like a move to curb their economic growth more than anything.

mschuster91 7y ago
For once in 2 years though the current US admin is right IMHO. China is not an ally, Russia is not an ally. Best case they're semi-neutral, worst case they're the next enemy. China especially has been playing the ultra-long game by slowly getting more and more countries under their dependence, buying up assets left and right and where that didn't help resorting to industrial espionage. The problem that the telco operators have is that there is (thanks to Chinese dumping, did I mention they are playing a long game) next to no viable competition in either the US or the expanded NATO space - Europe has Ericsson and Nokia which are expensive and the US has Cisco which is expensive and crops up with at least one real backdoor a month.
- wobblegong 7y ago
  Are hardware vulnerabilities so difficult to find and insidious that no amount of auditing and investigation by the US govt will ever be sufficient?
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    Given the many vulnerabilities across all vendors over the last years, secure development and operation practices are missing across the board. Cisco managed to fuck up their entire secure boot solution (https://thrangrycat.com/ https://thrangrycat.com/), Intel's ME can be taken out of service despite "firmware signing", and I presume that a proper audit by the government would have uncovered that.
  - kevin_nisbet 7y ago
    Pretty much yes, combined with having to fully audit the software top to bottom every couple of weeks for every patch, piece of firmware, etc with pressure to get into production fixes for issues that affect customers service. From my experience in the industry, most of the protections being offered are hand-wavy things, like a software patch from Huawei being scanned by a desktop virus scanner for viruses or remote access gateways that record the screens of external employees accessing equipment where the demo I got for the solution the security prime couldn't figure out how to actually view the screen recordings. Huawei employees weren't allowed to give us any USB devices either. (I didn't work with Huawei routinely, although I know many who do. I tended to work with Cisco, Nokia, and several smaller vendors). The only model I could see sort of working is forcing them to hand over the sources to an industry group or government entity, that is then responsible for auditing, building, and signing the software. But there are so many moving components slipping something past that is still plausible, and many barriers towards that sort of model.
- AcerbicZero 7y ago
  I agree, to a point. I'm not entirely opposed to Trump (or entirely in favor) but it seems if we're going to be stuck playing economic realpolitik with a country as nationalized as China this is a perfectly reasonable step. The US and its allies have not been particularly good stewards with the power they've held over the world for the last ~70+ years, but I shudder to think of what a Chinese controlled network backbone would do to things. You can argue the West doesn't behave as well as it should on the world stage, but Western ideology seems to be the best hope we have for an eventual egalitarian future, although the human cost will still be high. The further we get from authoritarianism, be it left or right, the better, in my opinion.
- solotronics 7y ago
  Are you talking specifically about 5G?
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    Mostly yes. The thing is that what we see in 5G with China is also happening in other areas as well, both in IT (think of how much of our stuff is produced in China!) and outside of IT (Belt Road initiative). When it comes to China and Russia, what they are doing is a plan of the sort that can only be done in an authoritarian, controlled state.
- lowken10 7y ago
  Name one thing Trump has been wrong about?
- samirm 7y ago
  So? You say that like it's a problem. China being the number 1 economy is inevitable and I, for one, am looking forward to it.
gramstrong 7y ago
I don't doubt it, but at least some security is a side effect of that.
dx87 7y ago
Not really. Look at articles posted on this site whenever a device made in China is "accidentally" sending user information back to some server in China; people keep asking why the government isn't doing anything to warn citizens or companies about bad actors in the hardware department. When the government does warn us not to use hardware from a specific vendor, people here say it's just a GOP plot to hurt China's economy under the guise of security.

petschge 7y ago

The fear mongering against Huawei becomes really interesting when you look at all the "sorry, we forgot about that unintentional access possibility" incidents in Cisco gear that might either be back doors or lousy QA leading to security problems.

mythrwy 7y ago
All that shows is gee, it really can and really does happen. Which is a stronger argument, not weaker for suspicious treatment of Huawei by Western governments.
mey 7y ago
Watching from afar, the amount of huge holes in Cisco are staggering. I don't really understand IT's love of Cisco, other than that's all they've certed in/invested in/never get fired for IBM mentality. For people in the networking space, what makes you use cisco for firewalls/core routing at this point?
- laurentdc 7y ago
  * abundance of people with Cisco knowledge and certifications, everyone has fiddled with a Cisco CLI at some point in their career * devices on the gray market are very cheap, low barrier to entry for setting up a lab or a SMB infrastructure * the lower end stuff is pretty much set and forget (e.g. we still have 1700 series devices from year 2003 routing calls without a hiccup) * "nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" company mentality
  - coding123 7y ago
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/11/cisco_sap_failures/
- bane 7y ago
  Cisco is the Oracle of networking gear.
7y ago

EamonnMR 7y ago

What is this gonna mean for my OnePlus

gbear605 7y ago
Nothing, unless your cellphone is part of the infrastructure of a telecom company.

robertAngst 7y ago

Can anyone stop him? I don't want him to do this. I don't want these tariffs. Does this mean the Republican Party is compliant in this nonsense?

jeffdavis 7y ago
I am, for the most part, a free-trade advocate. But I have been having more and more doubts when it comes to China. Free trade has not made China a more free place. It looks like they are just using their economic power to hurt freedom everywhere.
- tomp 7y ago
  Also, there are many limits to free trade. E.g. constant WTO lawsuits regarding one country subsidizing their own corporations. You could easily claim that all Chinese corporations are state-sponsored...
chrisco255 7y ago
Why should they stop him? Do you trust China? I don't.
swebs 7y ago
I, on the other hand, am glad these tariffs are happening. They've been a long time coming.
- pickle-wizard 7y ago
  I really only have one problem with these tariffs. That Trump didn't get our allies to also raise their tariffs against China.
- justAnotherNET 7y ago
  This 100%. Anyone educated on the issues beyond the surface level propaganda knows this is the right call.
- gscott 7y ago

cletus 7y ago

This just goes to prove that even a racist clock is right twice a day [1] because it's clear that: - China has engaged in state-sponsored corporate and military espionage; and - Chinese companies are not separate from the state. The only reasonable conclusion here is that Huawei gear on key networking infrastructure represents a security threat and really that's all there is to it. I find it odd that it's taken Trump, who otherwise is a disaster on pretty much every front, to actually say what is otherwise obvious. [1]: https://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-racist-clock-4th-panel https://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-racist-clock-4...

bvdba 7y ago
I don't believe this is the consequence of Trump being racist.
- deertick1 7y ago
  I don't believe trump is racist.
  - krapp 7y ago
    There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that he is[0,1], going back to lawsuits over housing discrimination in the 1970s, to his comments about wanting more immigrants from Norway rather than "shithole countries" in Africa, and of course equivocating on Charlottesville. Granted, he hasn't burned a cross on the White House lawn, but it's difficult to look at his statements and the unprecedented (and well documented) support his campaign had from racists and not conclude he probably is racist beyond a reasonable doubt. [0]https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-r... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump
    - m0zg 7y ago
      Charlottesville hoax has been debunked again and again, including by MSM outlets themselves. Read what he actually said: https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-funnel/ https://blog.dilbert.com/2019/04/30/the-fine-people-hoax-fun...

bogomipz 7y ago

"Foreign Telecom Gear" really only ever seems to mean Huawei and China in these proclamations. The fact is the majority of Telecom gear is foreign-made with regards to the US. To wit: Alcatel-Lucent - France Nokia - Finland Siemens - Germany Samsung - Korea Fujitsu and NEC - Japan If the US were to truly enforce a domestic US-only vendor selection it would be limited to Cienna, Cisco, Qualcomm and Motorola. And to my knowledge none of those four companies are making 5G switching gear.

HillaryBriss 7y ago
isn't all this stuff actually manufactured in China?
- culot 7y ago
  Depends on the component or product probably. Some is, some isn't.
nickpsecurity 7y ago
It could get worse if you consider many companies have R&D centers in countries that like IP spying. That includes Russia and China. For China, true more often if hardware development is involved. So, Trump gonna require all potentially-subversive, foreign, R&D centers to be shut down with it all imported to America? Then require them to be US citizens born here with low risk of foreign influence? And then paid well with stable lifestyle with lower odds of bribery or blackmail? I think he has no idea what it takes to reduce foreign risk. Besides, the so-called APT's are doing a number on our Fortune 500 companies with techniques like spear fishing with PDF-looking executables. I mean, how much will blocking Chinese equipment even help such companies? ;)

mark_l_watson 7y ago

A little off topic: I think multiple countries should join together to co-sponsor security evaluation labs to check Cisco, Huawei, and all telecom companies. These labs should get access to hardware design, software, etc. This can be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property. I suspect that the top telecom tech companies would go along with this idea, to get vetted, if it would help increase their business. Right now there are two European and one Chinese company who can ship 5G gear. I would like all 5G, and older gear also, to be vetted by international security labs.

soared 7y ago
> This /cannot/ be done in a way that mostly protects individual company’s intellectual property /from spilling into other countries hands/ Fixed.
quotz 7y ago
Yeah, the problem is that unlike the EU and US companies, Huawei is just the institutional arm of a communist dictatorship regime masked as a company.
- cup 7y ago
  And CIA seeded companies aren't?
  - quotz 7y ago
    USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy on foreign countries but ok.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      Yeah it's just a coincidence that Cisco can't seem to quit shipping hardcoded root backdoors to their routers... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-a...

elamje 7y ago

Is there major legitimacy to the state sponsored back doors in Huawei, or has the company just become some sort of pawn in the trade war?

waste_monk 7y ago

动态网自由门天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏土伯特唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主言論思想反共反革命抗議運動騷亂暴亂騷擾擾亂抗暴平反維權示威游行李洪志法輪大法大法弟子強制斷種強制堕胎民族淨化人體實驗肅清胡耀邦趙紫陽魏京生王丹還政於民和平演變激流中國北京之春大紀元時報九評論共産黨獨裁專制壓制統一監視鎮壓迫害侵略掠奪破壞拷問屠殺活摘器官誘拐買賣人口遊進走私毒品賣淫春畫賭博六合彩天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 Hopefully this should reduce the incidence of 50 Cent Army shills in the comments.

toomanyrichies 7y ago
For those confused about the Winnie the Pooh reference (like I was): https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855 https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-china-blog-40627855 Once you see it, you can’t un-see it.
dang 7y ago
Please don't do this here. And please don't violate the site guidelines by making insinuations about astroturfing. It's a long-established rule that those are not allowed on HN, because the overwhelming majority of the time they are just an internet trope, and a poisonous one at that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

burtonator 7y ago

I'm really looking forward to a time with the United States, Russia, and China all agree to get along and decide to screw all the poor people equally instead of just trying to screw poor people in their own country.

qazqwert 7y ago

finnaly............

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stunt 7y ago

This huge international campaign including pushing other countries..! It is not about security. It is more about money. Huge influence from powerful capitalists and investors because their market and long term interests are at risk.

whitenation1488 7y ago

The CIA, their job is to protect Americans The Chinese are our enemies they want to hurt us We need to trust the CIA and distrust the chinese

whitenation1488 7y ago

Dumbest argument ever Its not hypocrisy to believe that cops should shoot criminals, but ordinary citizens doing. The CIA protects us, every action they do makes us safer. The CIA does a lot of things, but the reason is to protect us. We may not understand why they did something but their motives are always true. China is our enemy, they want to kill us