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Show HN: Koonchi – Convert Photo to Hand-Painted Painting by Artists from India
- inflatableDodo 7y ago>Like the Royals of the world, here is a chance to create a timeless memory. Roll up, roll up, get yer powdered insta-class here. Bored of your lowly social status madam? With just one helping of insta-class, members of the nobility might finally notice you exist. Is easy to use with the simple applicator, all you need to do is add money. Terms and conditions apply. No refunds. edit - this is what went through my head as I read the copy, right after, 'no, not much'. It is perhaps harsh, and I slightly regretted it after reading that the artists have the ability to set pricing. It might be an idea to have a complete rethink of the marketing approach, as currently it leaves me utterly cold and leads me to assume it is a service meant for snobs interested in status, rather than something fun for people who want a nice painting.
- Rainymood 7y agoSuper awesome, I had this idea as well but the hard part is in the execution! I'm rooting for your success!
- OrganicQuote 7y agoThank you so much! We are trying hard to bring as many talented artists as possible under one roof.
- spectramax 7y agoCould you please share the story about how you started such a wonderful business? Specifically, I am curious of how did you go about lobbying artists and convincing them to get onboard? Are they local artists in your town or are you doing it remotely?
- OrganicQuote 7y agoWhen we started accepting orders 3 months ago, we started with few local artists and couple artists from different cities in India. My faith in the project became stronger and stronger as we started to talk to artists one-on-one, almost everyone was stoked about the idea and our passion, and attention to details to the project. We ended up contacting several artists pan India, some strongly resonated with our idea and so it began... We are still in process of on boarding artists, and we are constantly looking for talent. My wife has a very keen eye in spotting talent, and she also has a degree in Fine Arts so her being a co-founder in this venture helps a lot. Fun Fact that helped us break-through with most of the artists can choose their pricing, we don't ask them to stick to certain pricing, hence artists don't feel boxed. My biggest take-away has been to never let their (artists) creative spirits cause of a certain economics of the business. We are still learning, and will know more as we progress.
- mixmastamyk 7y agoIs there a reason artists in the area would not appreciate paid work?
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoIf the pay was lower than their current work. Or the demands were much higher for similar/more pay.
- namanyayg 7y agoI don't think it's challenging to convince an artist, they'd be happy to do this work at these costs. Finding artists is a bigger problem, and I'd guess they solved it by knowing someone with ancestry from a painting-oriented village community.
- OrganicQuote 7y agoArtists do recommend other artists. Most artists we come across is through artist recommendation.
- yingw787 7y agoSounds a lot like instapainting.com, except artists come from India instead of China. Also sounds like the model works :) Best of luck!
- dymk 7y agoI'm looking at InstaPainting, and their website claims: MADE IN USA BY AMERICAN ARTISTS And I can't find any mention of China.
- namanyayg 7y agoI can concur with OP, I'm certain instapainting had Chinese artists at some point of time. Maybe they found the higher costs of native artists to offset shipping costs from China and changed their model.
- tlarkworthy 7y agoYes there is a big blog about how they set it up with an artist city in China https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-paint-10000-paintings/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to...
- imjared 7y agoAbsolutely. I remember going down this internet rabbit hole one day a few years ago. I remember feeling like it helped me better understand just how many people there are in China that a single city/area could be known for putting out artwork that we see in our chain retailers here in the USA. https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to-paint-10000-paintings/ https://www.instapainting.com/blog/company/2015/10/28/how-to...
- throwawayforrrr 7y agoThat's because the founder, chrischen https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=chrischen https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=chrischen, before the trade war took full effect, used to bash US and tout China alot. Now the sentiment around the world is anti-China, so the website has to hide the fact that they use Chinese labors (maybe even concentration camp Uighur labors?)
- snek 7y agoplot twist: it's a cluster of servers running deep dream
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- synaesthesisx 7y agoI was thinking the same thing - Style Transfer GAN's
- KingFelix 7y agohahah, I came here to say that!! I was thinking the same thing, I wonder if it's a combination. Like maybe they do have people hand drawing things and they are using that to train a NN of some kind so eventually it's all CG images.
- jonplackett 7y agoI just assumed that was what it was and only realised it wasn’t from this comment.
- chrischen 7y agoWe don't use deep dream, but a CNN to power our Instant Preview Tool: http://instapainting.com/assets http://instapainting.com/assets
- chrisfarms 7y agoTell us more... Is this for previews of the artist assigned you? Or something else?
- chrischen 7y agoIt’s for a preview for select styles that we have pre-trained models for. If you like it the artist is given the style image to paint it for you. It’s a gimmick but often the results are not bad. Plus a lot of people always ask for an “instant preview” and this is the best we can currently do.
- chias 7y agoThis looks phenomenal, I'll be placing an order later today. Congratulations to you and your team, I hope this succeeds past your expectations :)
- OrganicQuote 7y agothank you so much! :)
- rajekas 7y agoSince this is HN, I should be cheering the new uber for portraits. Unfortunately, I like the Indian crafts traditions more and it makes me sick that there's a village in Kerala or Karnataka or Jharkhand or wherever churning out handmade selfies. Thanks but no thanks.
- dymk 7y agoI get that maybe you'd prefer the artists were producing one type of art, but why would it make you sick that they're producing a different type?
- theoh 7y agoThese paintings have zero artistic value because they have no authentic connection to the person who paints them. Practicing a traditional craft is a form of self-expression and connection with one's heritage (even if the products are for export). These pictures are just kitsch. It's just a meaningless intrusion of random jpgs into the lives of the people who make them.
- hahajk 7y agoAre you upset that the artists just get a jpeg where some of the artistic choice has already been made (like posing and lighting)? Or do you disagree with portraiture in general as an art form?
- FoeNyx 7y ago"These paintings have zero artistic value" is quite an harsh judgement, especially when defining the "artistic value" is so subjective. It's not like commissioned painting is a new thing, and it yielded some masterpieces. Bringing it to a broader audience can be beneficial for artists themselves. I remember seeing an interview of an African artist who was telling the journalist that before she gained some fame in her country she was living in quite a precarious financial situation. I think there's definitely some merit to such a service if it might help some artists in similar situations, as by solidifying a source of income, they could then devote themselves to paint things they really want to paint.
- namanyayg 7y agoLoses out in both style and cost when compared to InstaPainting (where this is definitely derived from) but good effort, hope this improves livelihoods of Indian artists. What percentage of the share actually goes to them?
- OrganicQuote 7y agoThe pricing is decided by the artist, and every style is owned by an individual artist. We add percentage of commission on the base artist pricing.
- mthoms 7y agoI love this, good job. I'm curious, does the purchase transfer the copyright to the buyer? Or does it remain with the artist?
- OrganicQuote 7y agoThank you! According to current copyright laws the buyer does not hold copyright to the artwork.
- gliop 7y agoWhat does current law have to do with it? Works for hire are generally copyrighted by the hirer, and copyrights can be transferred by contract.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoThe painting is also a derivative work.
- lb1lf 7y agoJust to add a bit of (useful) pedantry - what happens to copyright depends on the jurisdiction. In some (Norway, for instance) you can not fully transfer all rights, even if you want to. (This _is_ pedantry, as you can pretty much transfer any commercial rights - just about the only thing you can not transfer is the right to be named the creator of the work.
- namanyayg 7y agoMaybe a name change is order... you are aware of what "coochie" means in American English right? EDIT: If someone is bilingual and targeting multiple markets, they have to complete ability to judge and choose a name lacking connotations. Doing otherwise is abstruse. Of course, it doesn't matter if it is only targeting the Indian market where there are no such connotations.
- FraaJad 7y agothe world existed before American English. Also the sound is more like "coon-cheee", not like what sounds in your dirty mind.
- cm2012 7y agoKoonchi is different enough from coochie that this is silly.
- pojntfx 7y agoCommodification of human art, here we go
- writepub 7y agoOr - making human art more accessible to everyone
- codingdave 7y agoPeople get the painting they want, artists get to get paid for painting, and the business makes their money by connecting those sides. This doesn't detract in the slightest from other artists pursuing their own efforts, and making their own creations.
- WalterSear 7y agoYou may want to brush up on your art history.
- gliop 7y agoDon't paint all of art history with one brush.
- redka 7y agoI almost bought something from them but was met (at the very end of the whole process) with a huge standard shipment fee even though the FAQ said the shipment is free. Apparently there's a minimum amount that you have to pay to qualify for the free shipment
- trextrex 7y agoIt says clearly in the FAQs that free shipping is only in India and for orders above Rs. 15000.
- redka 7y agoWell they just added it after my email. Didn't say that before
- OrganicQuote 7y agoOur apologies if you felt that it was misrepresented in our FAQs. Right now reliable world-wide shipping from India is 10x more expensive for us compared to shipping within India. So we cannot afford to offer free shipping for international customers, unless we increase product price which would be unfair for our Indian customers.
- cm2012 7y agoI just made an order (to Glen Oaks, NY). One concern is that at checkout the picture I uploaded flipped sideways. Maybe consider a crop/rotate option for the picture once you choose picture size?
- OrganicQuote 7y agoYes, we will take care of that, and thank you for your order :) We will reach out to you via email if the artist has any questions.
- foreigner 7y agoJust flip the painting sideways when you get it back.
- jchallis 7y agoI treasure a photo I had Instapainted of my wife and daughter (this definitely came from Xiamen). Glad to see you bringing joy to more people
- muktaakash 7y agoFrom expression of meta thoughts, capturing concepts, iteration of feelings to aesthetics and story telling through the strokes of brush... If I am not mistaken, where art is going? Is it okay or something not right as junk food?
- feiss 7y agoI wonder how much is the share the painters get..
- Animats 7y agoHow does this compare with the Oil Paint filter in Photoshop?
- detaro 7y agoreally would have thought you'd be above comments like that
- Animats 7y agoPeople have been selling photo to painting schemes for decades. There's a mini-industry where you send in a photo and get back a paint by number kit. That predates computers. Etsy has a whole category for photo to painting shops.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoThere's a reason we have the expression "starving artist." Most people don't really want to pay for art. If this is a means to monetize their skill so they can survive, it's understandable they would jump on it. I'm a writer. Similar problem. I earn money working for a service where I get paid relatively little to write the kinds of website content that gets decried on HN as having ruined the internet. HN members expect high quality content on the front page on a regular basis and also uses ad blockers, posts ways to get around pay walls, etc. Some of my original content occasionally hits the front page of HN. In January, I had a piece get 60k page views and 300+ comments. It didn't make me one thing dime. It took me about two weeks to write it. I haven't done a follow up piece on the parenting site in question. Instead, I'm writing more stuff for pay that HN members decry as ruining the internet. The world gets what it is willing to pay for. And then it says ugly things about people taking the money, like artists should prefer starvation to doing this thing we will pay them for when the reality is most of them can't find another way to pay their bills.
- keyle 7y agoYou had me at "spin the wheel of discount".
- jrockway 7y agoI was surprised that they didn't say "only 1 left at this price!" and have a chatbot pop up to say "click here to buy my book on dark patterns!" I went looking through the code to see if the "wheel of discount" always gives a discount (it should, of course), but couldn't find it. There is a lot of Javascript on that website. So it goes, I guess.
- parksy 7y agoThat's Numberwang! Let's spin the board!
- contingencies 7y agoMissing option for charcoal.
- anonu 7y agoI'm sure there's a market for this. But I'm not in it. If I want to buy a painting, I'm looking for technique, style, color usage, materials usage, ability to craft a message and convey a mood. The individual artist and their story matters to me. A facsimile of a digital photo is probably not what I'm looking for.
- ZoomZoomZoom 7y agoIt really saddens me that there's a market for this. Especially knowing from personal experience the prices real art goes for in a traditional market (hint: borderline offensive). Marketers will keep underlining the shiny bits ("artists set their prices"), but in the end the business is farming, not art.
- yingw787 7y agoI’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically bad about this kind of service. I asked a friend who does graphics for NPR and the New Yorker whether she feels any attachment to her pieces, and she said it’s just work in the end. Not all software is just made to be beautiful either; for many of us here software is just work too. I have a feeling art prices (particularly contemporary art) are inflated in part due to their being Veblen goods (high prices make it attractive), or otherwise a vehicle for value retention like diamonds and gold; see price differences between forgeries and the real thing. And of course, we all know Adolf Hitler was rejected for art school and took a different job instead, and the world might be a better place if this service existed back then.
- ZoomZoomZoom 7y agoSorry, but I'm not following you. Nothing you said after the first sentence proves your point, as I see it. > I’m not sure there’s anything intrinsically bad about this kind of service These services of course provide some value: they are easy to find/stumble on, they free customers of excessive choice, allowing them to not be actively interested in art and collapsing everything to simple "choose your style" option, they free customers of direct communications with artists, they arbitrage prices between different geographical markets. On the other hand, these services compete with traditional artists, they devalue regular artworks in the minds of common potential customers AND further reinforce the thinning of the line between art and prints one buys in a furniture store.
- ZoomZoomZoom 7y agoI've just understood that I should have been more clear. I meant "borderline offensive" to artists (dirt cheap), of course.
- rajekas 7y agoMy earlier comment met with some resistance, so let me try to get some more downvotes by stating my objections once again and more comprehensively. I should say I have nothing against the premise of the business - if it provides livelihood to traditional craftspeople (or just talented artists of any kind) more power to you. However, you are not making it easy for me to believe that you have the artist's best interests in mind. Let me count the reasons why: 1. Not a single individual artist or craftsperson is mentioned anywhere on the site. I don't know about you, but when I hear the term "artist," I think of an individual with a specific way of looking at the world. Absolutely every Indian artist and craftsperson I know has a desire to see their individuality recognized. You claim to be sourcing artists but you don't recognize their personhood anywhere. That's rather strange don't you think? It's possible that during the portraiture itself a bond is established between the representer and the representee but that's not the case on your site. It's an easily added feature if you're serious. [EDIT] - as another commenter pointed out, there's a byline for each artist so what I said above is flawed. I still think you would be better off highlighting the artist's vision in more detail. For example, did artist X make the portrait in style Y - Suprio for Ballpoint Magic for example? If so, why aren't the portraits signed? Why choose to anonymize them at every stage? Otherwise it looks as if you are choosing to stroke the vanity of a western/affluent Indian audience. 2. Every Indian state and linguistic community has artistic traditions. Madhubani is different from Company painting is different from Mughal paintings. None of these traditions are even mentioned. In fact, there's no evidence that any Indian aesthetic tradition matters at all. Instead, what you have are generic categories - "the vision lure" - without connection to artistic traditions of any culture. 3. Then there's the origin story - "the idea was hatched when so and so were sipping coffee and discussing the works of Raja Ravi Verma in the historical city of Udaipur." At the very least that suggests an intimate connection between Raja Ravi Varma and Udaipur, especially if you aren't Indian. Except that RRV lived out his life in Kerala, far away from Udaipur and from a very different artistic and cultural milieu. If you had started the story with Tantric paintings [1] that are still produced anonymously in Rajasthan (just like your artists) I would have taken notice. Suppose I went to a cafe in Stockholm, discussed the "da Vinci code" with a friend and decided to start a business in Italian greeting cards made for cut rates by unknown artists in Neapolitan neighborhoods (in between assignments for the 'ndrangheta, if you want to add some mystery to the whole process)- in what way would that be beneficial to European art? [1] http://sigliopress.com/book/tantra-song/ http://sigliopress.com/book/tantra-song/
- craftoman 7y agoThat's the future ladies and gentlemen. Creating AI algorithms that can mimic human creativity and sell them as art. Image what can be achieved in the next few years, art will be like the organic foods. It may have the stamp on the package but many farmers are cheating. (especially in Eastern Europe)
- asdjlkadsjklads 7y agoInteresting! On that note, is there a service like this to request drawings not from photos? Maybe with early sketch phases to suss out the specifics before committing to the final iteration? I've got some work i've been wanting to commission, but i'm not sure on where best to find an artist
- umeshunni 7y agoDepends on the domain, but I had luck with Fiverr for converting rough drawings to renders.
- VectorLock 7y agoGot any examples?
- umeshunni 7y agoSomeone like this: https://www.fiverr.com/sunnyadi/professionally-vectorize-your-logo-or-graphic-or-image?context_referrer=search_gigs&source=main_banner&ref_ctx_id=6ad50acf-6cac-4afd-bfb2-6929a403018a&pckg_id=1&pos=2&context_type=auto&funnel=32f38568-40b5-4401-ab92-5270b5ba51a2 https://www.fiverr.com/sunnyadi/professionally-vectorize-you...
- cauliflower2718 7y agoI initially thought this was a deep learning style transfer project for quite a while. What a surprise!
- arketyp 7y agoIn the end, maybe not that different.
- vldr 7y agoInteresting concept. Went to look and scrolled through the page to see the different styles/prices. And then my entire view got blocked by some large wheel of fortune. At that point, as with those email begging popups, I lose all attention, realize I have better stuff to do and click away.
- kkarakk 7y agohttps://apps.shopify.com/lucky-spin-wheel https://apps.shopify.com/lucky-spin-wheel it costs 4 bucks a month...i don't know enough about lead generation to comment about whether it works but damn it's irritating. it's like when you goto a real world store and there is an upfront price and a price you get after haggling- except it's hidden behind RNG
- tminima 7y agoI like the name. Koonchi means painting brush which were used in India in the olden days.