5 ms·

Mothers Are the Unsung Heroes of Prison

109 points by wyndham 7y ago

erwan 7y ago
It is a moving piece about quiet heroism, I enjoyed it a lot. And it reminds me of another article about Lyn Ulbricht (https://breakermag.com/lyn-ulbricht-pushed-herself-to-the-brink-of-death-for-freeross-her-last-best-hope-president-trump/ https://breakermag.com/lyn-ulbricht-pushed-herself-to-the-br...). Lyn is the mother of Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road. The article goes at length about the war she is fighting to get her son out of jail. I have so much respect and admiration for this woman. It is quite something and they make a very compelling case in my opinion. You can read more about it here: https://freeross.org/ https://freeross.org/
- PunchTornado 7y ago
  life in prison with no parole? that is so harsh. give him 10 years max. drugs are soon to be legalised...
  - larrymcp 7y ago
    I thought so too at first, but a few months ago I read the judges' decision in his appeal. He had actually ordered some murders as well, and that was factored into his sentence. The murders didn't actually take place, but he did order them and he was under the impression that they were carried out.
    - miracle2k 7y ago
      And yet, there are actual murderers who do receive parole - and that's the way it should be. Many countries do not even have life in prison without parole, as they rightfully recognize it as inhumane.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        Why should it be that way? Did the murderer's victim(s) receive some kind of leniency or reprieve after a period of time? Did they re-animate? I don't have a strong opinion here either way, but separating convicted murderers (especially first-degree or conspiracy-to) from free society doesn't inherently sound like a crazy bad idea.
        RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        Context is important. This is why we have judges and juries and appeals.
        Digit-Al 7y ago
        That depends on whether you view prison as a way of getting revenge on criminals or as a way of trying to reform them. If you view prison as an agency of revenge on wrongdoers then, of course, life without parole for murderers makes perfect sense. If, on the other hand, you view prison as a way of trying to reform wrongdoers and turn them into productive members of society then life without parole makes no sense at all.
        matwood 7y ago
        The threat of life in prison can also be viewed as a deterrent. How long should a murderer get to be reformed? What is long enough so a person will not think that that amount of time is a good trade off to kill someone? Someone can agree with both of your views depending on the crime. Physically harming another person, particularly irreparably is different than stealing something for example.
        sokoloff 7y ago
        There are at least two other possible reasons for prison: deterrence and ensuring that no further free persons are harmed. The family might be interested in revenge. Society has an interest in all three other possible motivations, though probably not in revenge.
        chongli 7y ago
    - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
      Can you direct me to the judgement where he was found guilty of conspiracy to murder, or as an accomplice? From my research, this non-fact was brought up NOT in any charge, but was in the sentencing hearing as if it was a found true fact.
      - JoeSmithson 7y ago
        He wasn't charged with those offences but evidence was produced of them which factored into his sentencing, as Ulbricht ordered the killings to support his drug trafficking operation. He doesn't need to be found guilty of those offences for it to factor into sentencing. It would be different if the evidence was not produced at his trial, but given that it was produced, the judge can consider it.
        dooglius 7y ago
        > He doesn't need to be found guilty of those offences for it to factor into sentencing That seems very wrong to me, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" should extend to sentencing
        luckylion 7y ago
        > That seems very wrong to me, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" should extend to sentencing That's quite impossible, isn't it? Motives regularly play a role in sentencing and you cannot prove those, only deeds. You can believe it to be very likely that somebody did X because of Y and not because of Z, but you can't prove it.
- dkoubsky 7y ago
  That's what I was thinking too. Lyn is super cool.
chronogram 7y ago
There was no reader mode available, but you can get that here in case you also need that accessibility: https://outline.com/bHxccU https://outline.com/bHxccU “(...) making it harder for our moms and other family members to visit us, or forcing them to visit us via video chat. Instead of making it more expensive for them to accept our phone calls or send us emails. (...)” This seems soulless. I wonder how that works elsewhere.
- k__ 7y ago
  US prisons always sound like hell. In Germany, prison time is like being in the hospital without being sick. Mostly boring.
  - anovikov 7y ago
    Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? Someone who's already into prison for a long term is lost anyway, he or she will be criminalized for life. And this is why prison terms should be mostly binary: we should try to either punish someone with something short of that, or if not, lock him up for long enough he either never makes it out of there, or does it old enough so he's not tuu much of a threat anymore.
    - apalmer 7y ago
      Honestly, my understanding is prison are supposed to be a deterrent for the free, and a rehabilitation for the imprisoned. Most prison terms are not 40-60 year virtual life sentences, so most people who go to prison will see the outside again. So while I dont think we should 'take it easy' on prisoners we really shouldn't be trying to do damage that will prevent them from having a chance to function in society. Besides all that fundamental as a society either the society believes in human rights or it doesnt...
      - Lol_80005 7y ago
        In the US, specifically Georgia, the justice system is almost strictly punative with little to no provision for rehabilitation. Should you get stuck in it, it is designed to punish you to the maximum normal sentence, not to help you in any way. As far as I can tell, it's not designed as a rehabilitation for the imprisioned. Probation and parole similarly act with punative means only. In practice, the probation officers are not your friends and they are not there to help you.
tty2300 7y ago
The last part was pretty hard hitting. Posts get linked on HN often about prisons making it impossible for people to contact their family and friends. I can't imagine how fucked up someone would end up after being totally cut off from their friends and family.
devoply 7y ago
Considering the whole prison system is now moving to make it so people can only "visit" other people through over-priced video link. What is the social and societal cost of such a tech move?
- tech-hacker69 7y ago
  can't be good...
golemiprague 7y ago
Heroes my ass, they are responsible to raising up criminals in the first place. Why they always try to find some positive angel about women, doesn't matter how faulty they are. Half of those criminals were born out of wedlock because their moms were trashy teenagers with a poor choice in partners and a conscious decision to live on welfare. They should not be celebrated.
known 7y ago
Maslow’s Pyramid explains what makes a mother heroic https://qz.com/1615580/maslows-pyramid-explains-what-makes-a-mother-heroic/ https://qz.com/1615580/maslows-pyramid-explains-what-makes-a...
mercer 7y ago
I quite liked this article and had a (very cursory) look at the other stuff he wrote, and from what I've seen I can recommend it. It's maybe not fancy writing, but the topics are interesting, and it gets to the point.
namtir 7y ago
71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. 90% of runaway and homeless children come form fatherless homes. 85% of children with behavioral problems come from fatherless homes. 63% of youth suicide is fatherless homes. Of the 27 shooters, only 1 was raised by his biological father since birth Does this go well with: > Maybe we should consider just how much positive influence these wonderful ladies have on the penal system, every day of the year. and > A momma’s boy, which almost all convicts are.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  Single parenthood is a thankless task. Is there evidence that single fathers fare any better?
  - dleslie 7y ago
    I was curious so I dug; I am not an expert at all and make no claim to that. AFAICT, in the USA, single Fathers occur at a much lower rate than single mothers, are more likely to be cohabitating with a partner, and tend to have a higher level of education and a larger income[0]. I don't think you could fairly compare the efficacy of single mothers and fathers against each other. There's not enough single fathers, and their socio-economic positioning tends to be more advantageous. It would be curious to see if elevating the socio-economic opportunities of single mothers would reduce the likelihood of criminal behaviour in their children. 0: https://ifstudies.org/blog/five-facts-about-todays-single-fathers https://ifstudies.org/blog/five-facts-about-todays-single-fa...
- watwut 7y ago
  On top of head, I know about three shooters who lived with biological father and multiple who were adopted (e.g. no biological parent). I also noted that you do not mention divorce rates and how many children without problems are fatherless. Finally, yes, in unstable or violent or otherwise troubled families it is usually mother that stays with kid and father who leaves. Either because he is uninterested or in prison or have restraining order against him. Sounds like you have an agenda here.
- 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

109 points by wyndham 7y ago

It is a moving piece about quiet heroism, I enjoyed it a lot. And it reminds me of another article about Lyn Ulbricht (https://breakermag.com/lyn-ulbricht-pushed-herself-to-the-brink-of-death-for-freeross-her-last-best-hope-president-trump/ https://breakermag.com/lyn-ulbricht-pushed-herself-to-the-br...). Lyn is the mother of Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road. The article goes at length about the war she is fighting to get her son out of jail. I have so much respect and admiration for this woman. It is quite something and they make a very compelling case in my opinion. You can read more about it here: https://freeross.org/ https://freeross.org/

PunchTornado 7y ago
life in prison with no parole? that is so harsh. give him 10 years max. drugs are soon to be legalised...
- larrymcp 7y ago
  I thought so too at first, but a few months ago I read the judges' decision in his appeal. He had actually ordered some murders as well, and that was factored into his sentence. The murders didn't actually take place, but he did order them and he was under the impression that they were carried out.
  - miracle2k 7y ago
    And yet, there are actual murderers who do receive parole - and that's the way it should be. Many countries do not even have life in prison without parole, as they rightfully recognize it as inhumane.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      Why should it be that way? Did the murderer's victim(s) receive some kind of leniency or reprieve after a period of time? Did they re-animate? I don't have a strong opinion here either way, but separating convicted murderers (especially first-degree or conspiracy-to) from free society doesn't inherently sound like a crazy bad idea.
      - RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        Context is important. This is why we have judges and juries and appeals.
      - Digit-Al 7y ago
        That depends on whether you view prison as a way of getting revenge on criminals or as a way of trying to reform them. If you view prison as an agency of revenge on wrongdoers then, of course, life without parole for murderers makes perfect sense. If, on the other hand, you view prison as a way of trying to reform wrongdoers and turn them into productive members of society then life without parole makes no sense at all.
        matwood 7y ago
        The threat of life in prison can also be viewed as a deterrent. How long should a murderer get to be reformed? What is long enough so a person will not think that that amount of time is a good trade off to kill someone? Someone can agree with both of your views depending on the crime. Physically harming another person, particularly irreparably is different than stealing something for example.
        sokoloff 7y ago
        There are at least two other possible reasons for prison: deterrence and ensuring that no further free persons are harmed. The family might be interested in revenge. Society has an interest in all three other possible motivations, though probably not in revenge.
        chongli 7y ago
  - crankylinuxuser 7y ago
    Can you direct me to the judgement where he was found guilty of conspiracy to murder, or as an accomplice? From my research, this non-fact was brought up NOT in any charge, but was in the sentencing hearing as if it was a found true fact.
    - JoeSmithson 7y ago
      He wasn't charged with those offences but evidence was produced of them which factored into his sentencing, as Ulbricht ordered the killings to support his drug trafficking operation. He doesn't need to be found guilty of those offences for it to factor into sentencing. It would be different if the evidence was not produced at his trial, but given that it was produced, the judge can consider it.
      - dooglius 7y ago
        > He doesn't need to be found guilty of those offences for it to factor into sentencing That seems very wrong to me, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" should extend to sentencing
        luckylion 7y ago
        > That seems very wrong to me, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" should extend to sentencing That's quite impossible, isn't it? Motives regularly play a role in sentencing and you cannot prove those, only deeds. You can believe it to be very likely that somebody did X because of Y and not because of Z, but you can't prove it.
dkoubsky 7y ago
That's what I was thinking too. Lyn is super cool.

chronogram 7y ago

There was no reader mode available, but you can get that here in case you also need that accessibility: https://outline.com/bHxccU https://outline.com/bHxccU “(...) making it harder for our moms and other family members to visit us, or forcing them to visit us via video chat. Instead of making it more expensive for them to accept our phone calls or send us emails. (...)” This seems soulless. I wonder how that works elsewhere.

k__ 7y ago
US prisons always sound like hell. In Germany, prison time is like being in the hospital without being sick. Mostly boring.
- anovikov 7y ago
  Aren't prisons supposed to be like that? In my perception, the goal of prison is exactly that: be like hell so other people are afraid of getting there enough so they don't commit crime? Someone who's already into prison for a long term is lost anyway, he or she will be criminalized for life. And this is why prison terms should be mostly binary: we should try to either punish someone with something short of that, or if not, lock him up for long enough he either never makes it out of there, or does it old enough so he's not tuu much of a threat anymore.
  - apalmer 7y ago
    Honestly, my understanding is prison are supposed to be a deterrent for the free, and a rehabilitation for the imprisoned. Most prison terms are not 40-60 year virtual life sentences, so most people who go to prison will see the outside again. So while I dont think we should 'take it easy' on prisoners we really shouldn't be trying to do damage that will prevent them from having a chance to function in society. Besides all that fundamental as a society either the society believes in human rights or it doesnt...
    - Lol_80005 7y ago
      In the US, specifically Georgia, the justice system is almost strictly punative with little to no provision for rehabilitation. Should you get stuck in it, it is designed to punish you to the maximum normal sentence, not to help you in any way. As far as I can tell, it's not designed as a rehabilitation for the imprisioned. Probation and parole similarly act with punative means only. In practice, the probation officers are not your friends and they are not there to help you.

tty2300 7y ago

The last part was pretty hard hitting. Posts get linked on HN often about prisons making it impossible for people to contact their family and friends. I can't imagine how fucked up someone would end up after being totally cut off from their friends and family.

devoply 7y ago

Considering the whole prison system is now moving to make it so people can only "visit" other people through over-priced video link. What is the social and societal cost of such a tech move?

tech-hacker69 7y ago
can't be good...

golemiprague 7y ago

Heroes my ass, they are responsible to raising up criminals in the first place. Why they always try to find some positive angel about women, doesn't matter how faulty they are. Half of those criminals were born out of wedlock because their moms were trashy teenagers with a poor choice in partners and a conscious decision to live on welfare. They should not be celebrated.

known 7y ago

Maslow’s Pyramid explains what makes a mother heroic https://qz.com/1615580/maslows-pyramid-explains-what-makes-a-mother-heroic/ https://qz.com/1615580/maslows-pyramid-explains-what-makes-a...

mercer 7y ago

I quite liked this article and had a (very cursory) look at the other stuff he wrote, and from what I've seen I can recommend it. It's maybe not fancy writing, but the topics are interesting, and it gets to the point.

namtir 7y ago

71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. 90% of runaway and homeless children come form fatherless homes. 85% of children with behavioral problems come from fatherless homes. 63% of youth suicide is fatherless homes. Of the 27 shooters, only 1 was raised by his biological father since birth Does this go well with: > Maybe we should consider just how much positive influence these wonderful ladies have on the penal system, every day of the year. and > A momma’s boy, which almost all convicts are.

paulryanrogers 7y ago
Single parenthood is a thankless task. Is there evidence that single fathers fare any better?
- dleslie 7y ago
  I was curious so I dug; I am not an expert at all and make no claim to that. AFAICT, in the USA, single Fathers occur at a much lower rate than single mothers, are more likely to be cohabitating with a partner, and tend to have a higher level of education and a larger income[0]. I don't think you could fairly compare the efficacy of single mothers and fathers against each other. There's not enough single fathers, and their socio-economic positioning tends to be more advantageous. It would be curious to see if elevating the socio-economic opportunities of single mothers would reduce the likelihood of criminal behaviour in their children. 0: https://ifstudies.org/blog/five-facts-about-todays-single-fathers https://ifstudies.org/blog/five-facts-about-todays-single-fa...
watwut 7y ago
On top of head, I know about three shooters who lived with biological father and multiple who were adopted (e.g. no biological parent). I also noted that you do not mention divorce rates and how many children without problems are fatherless. Finally, yes, in unstable or violent or otherwise troubled families it is usually mother that stays with kid and father who leaves. Either because he is uninterested or in prison or have restraining order against him. Sounds like you have an agenda here.
7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]