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Deadly stupidity during Aeroflot flight 1492 emergency evacuation
- mavdi 8y agoI was watching the evacuation video and as soon as I saw an idiot going down the slides with 3 bags I realised the death toll would be unnecessarily high. It’s safe to say those 3 bags cost 3 lives or more. What utter selfishness and stupidity.
- jyriand 8y agoDon’t be so quick to judge and call them idiots. In a panic situation you can act irrationaly.
- cmurf 8y agoPeople who go into some kind of dumbshit mode where they violate a rather basic social contract, by clearly indicating higher value for their crap than human lives? Yes, I'm getting a sense of acting irrationally right now: how about assaulting and trampling them? Hmm, small problem, while they deserve that and I think it would be completely ethical, their body will be yet another obstruction that will potentially cost others their lives.
- crooked-v 8y agoYou seem to be under the assumption that people in a true emergency situation have the mental coherency to even actively consider their own safety. The reason airline safety rules are so often repeated is that it gets people acting on 'automatic' without thinking about it, and even then there are various documented cases where airplane emergency survivors just sat in their seats without doing anything until someone told them to get up and off the plane.
- ars 8y agoI know not to, and yet, knowing that, I probably would anyway. Sigh. Mostly because I don't feel like it would slow me down. Even though I know intellectually it would. ------- Airplanes need wider aisles. That's all. It's as simple as that. The ones they have now are just too narrow. Does it really cost that much to increase space? Isn't the main operating cost of a plane weight, not volume?
- afthonos 8y agoThe surface area increases with the square of linear dimensions. So increasing aisle space meaningfully would make planes significantly heavier—unless you’re suggesting making seats narrower to compensate.
- ars 8y ago> The surface area increases with the square of linear dimensions That's for a ball. A cylinder does not increase that way. Plus you only need to increase the width, not the height. So the surface areas goes up as twice the linear dimension, which I don't think would be significantly heavier, just a bit incrementally heavier.
- afthonos 8y agoFair enough. I would say another likely issue is that of the highway problem: you make wider aisles—and now people think they can definitely take their stuff.
- saagarjha 8y agoThey are probably suggesting reducing the number of seats.
- soneil 8y agoI read that in surveying passengers who hadn't been in an emergency evacuation, about one third of people said they'd try to take at least one bag. In surveying passengers who had been involved in an emergency evacuation, about one half actually did. So you're not alone. What I did find interesting though, were the other side effects I hadn't considered. Time taken actually picking up your bag, most people will justify that away to themselves. Clogging up the aisle, most people seem to think that's something other people do. Time wasted arguing with the flight attendant when they try to persuade you that your bag could damage the slide? Where does the inevitable pile of bags go if the flight attendants start winning that argument? One report had that pile formed in front of a cockpit door. Another had that pile form in front of the off-side exit which should have been otherwise usable. (and only one of these points would be addressed by wider aisles!) I do find myself speculating whether the modern atmosphere of everyone knowing better than the experts compounds the issue.
- Krasnol 8y agoThe most surprising thing to me was that while watching the plane driving along, turning, coming to a stop, there was not a single fire engine there. Why is nobody talking about that? Every time I saw some kind messed up landing, I saw fire engines rushing towards and/or behind the plane even before it lands.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tialaramex 8y agoThat is interesting. Yes, even for something with a single pilot and no apparent fire they would usually have airport fire crews chase the emergency plane at an airport which has such things. Unless the pilots explicitly say they need something else e.g. "we have a woman with a heart attack we need paramedics to meet us". You'll hear on radio recordings the fire crew being told which plane is "theirs" and authorised to enter the runway which is otherwise off limits to ground vehicles. Something like "Emergency plane is number one for two six left. Fire Two you are Cleared to follow them onto two six left".
- dmitriid 8y agoBecause the pilots never indicated there was an emergency warranting a fire crew.
- Krasnol 8y agoAlright I can accept that. However, the moment this plane hit the ground and started burning somebody at the tower should have seen it. I mean...probably many people saw it. What about them?
- dmitriid 8y agoFire trucks cannot instantly teleport to the place were the plane has stopped and is burning ;)
- 8y ago
- jyriand 8y agoWas the pilot also deadly stupid by trying to land the plane without releasing the fuel first? As I understand very few pilots have the experience to do that.
- Avalaxy 8y agoNot all airplanes can dump their fuel. Only the bigger ones can. I once had to fly circles around an airport for 5 hours to burn up the fuel, because the airplane couldn't dump it.
- goodcanadian 8y agoThey generally only dump fuel over the ocean. Not great from an environmental perspective, but at least it isn't landing on people's houses or farm land.
- RandomBacon 8y agoThey generally dump over the ocean because there is less air traffic there, nothing to do with the fuel itself. Jet fuel disapates in a few thousand feet. You won't notice it if a jet dumps fuel over you.
- goodcanadian 8y agoI can't imagine why any pilot would have trouble landing the plane full of fuel. The issue with landing heavy is the potential for damage to the landing gear and tires, a perfectly acceptable trade off in an emergency.
- EugeneOZ 8y agoBecause it was the exact reason why wings broke (too high speed, too strong hit) and wings is the place where planes store their fuel.
- goodcanadian 8y ago
- basicplus2 8y agoMaybe the luggage compartments should be automatically locked shut for any landing/takeoff thus preventing people accesssing them during an evacuation
- kalkaran 8y agoI remember reading that this was considered, but that there was a significant concern it would lead to passengers spending more time trying to break in to the lockers to get their bags. So it was abandoned.
- fyfy18 8y agoI can't beleive that it can be any worse than if people can get their luggage out. When you arrive to the gate on something like an A320 or 737, at the middle seats you often need to wait five minutes until everyone ahead and behind you (assuming both exits are used) has collected their luggage and got off. Often the isle ahead of the blocker is clear, it's just someone is struggling to get their luggage out and nobody else can get past. Federal and international regulations state than an aircraft with more than 44 passengers must be able to be fully evacuated in less than half of that - 90 seconds. Crews are meticulously trained for this, including practical tests. (My wife used to be crew on 777 and A380)
- tapland 8y agoI think that would make it worse, having people try to get it open. Until it becomes very common knowledge.
- chrischen 8y agoWell, at least then they'd also die along with the people behind them.
- hughrlomas 8y agoHow about mandatory jail time for anyone removing personal items during an emergency evacuation.
- cyberferret 8y agoTo this day, I still don't take more than a very small backpack on board any aircraft with me. I don't understand people taking huge roll ons with them in the passenger compartment? Is it really too much to check the bags in and wait at the baggage carousel at the other end to retrieve them? Airlines need to can the exorbitant baggage fees to encourage people to check bags into the hold rather than try and take their entire 2 weeks vacation worth of stuff with them in the cabin. It is particularly annoying that on almost every flight I am on, I have to remove my very small and light backpack (usually just containing a book and my phone, headphones etc.) from the overhead bins and am forced to stow it under my feet in front of me (I am quite tall, and prefer nothing on the floor in front of me to prevent me stretching my legs in the limited room available) in order to make room for hundreds of others who can't bear to wait a few more minutes at the destination airport. I try to travel light and take up as little room as possible on the plane, and I get penalised because too many people try to do the opposite. It is a lose-lose endgame. Increase the incentives to check bags in the hold, restrict carry on even further - that should make it a much more pleasant cabin experience, even in a non emergency.
- randoramax 8y agoWhy do you like risking to loose your bags and constantly add 30minutes to your trips waiting for bags at the carousel? I never check bags and it's never a cost thing, only speed and convenience.
- MegaButts 8y agoI think most people don't check bags because airlines lose luggage all the time.
- csunbird 8y agoor because airlines charge very high prices for ability to check in your luggage.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoDo they though? Or is that just people's perception? It's a common case in life that people operate on extremely inflated perceptions of risk, often related to how news invert risk perceptions (the more you hear about something on the news, the less likely it is to happen; journalists and article writers don't report on stuff that happens regularly).
- lazyasciiart 8y agoOddly enough, this article is almost word for word the same as one about the Vegas crash it mentions (and links to): http://www.askthepilot.com/emergency-etiquette/ http://www.askthepilot.com/emergency-etiquette/
- ronilan 8y agoAt the bottom of which is this interesting paragraph: And for a slightly different perspective, here are some comments from Christine Negroni, aviation safety journalist and author of the Flying Lessons blog: Like you, I found myself shaking my head when I saw the videos or read reports of people taking their carry on luggage off the plane. Then I interviewed a passenger on Asiana 214 [the 2013 crash-landing of a 777 in San Francisco] who had done so and was surprised by his explanation. He told me that when the plane came to a stop and the evacuation began, he acted by habit in gathering his things and only afterward did he realize what he was doing. So I think we cannot discount the effect of altered state of consciousness as playing a role in this behavior. You may have read about this as a form of “negative panic.” Which may lead to a revision of Hanlon’s razor: ”Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by indifference.”
- ricardobeat 8y agoEven with flight attendants desperately screaming “leave your bags!” and a fire raging? More likely that person was just trying to hide his embarrassment.
- plouffy 8y agoI've never been in a flight accident (thankfully), but from my experience in amateur kickboxing fights when you're in a stressful environment (in a ring) and everyone is screaming, I don't think I ever heard a thing my corner was yelling at me, even if they were only a few metres away, my brain just went into auto-pilot. So I wouldn't discount his story.
- crooked-v 8y agoI was in a low-speed motorcycle accident once (no real injuries, just a long bruise down one side) and remember literally nothing that happened in the first five minutes afterwards, even though I'd somehow gotten my bike off the road with the help of a witness during that time. I didn't even consciously check myself for injuries until after I'd copied down the license plate number said witness shared with me.
- pierre_d528 8y agoBasic Laws Of Human Stupidity http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidit...
- crooked-v 8y agoThat needs a sixth law: "in emergencies, most people turn into stupid people".
- lkramer 8y agoAt least one aggrevating factor seems to me to be the fault of the airlines. They were so busy adding fees to checked-in luggage that everybody now tries to stuff everything into their carry-on. If the majority of people's luggage was checked in, it would not make the problem go away, but some selfish idiot running out with his laptop under his arm is a lot different than the same idiot trying to get his laptop AND his oversized wheelie bag off the plane.
- yardstick 8y agoEven if checked-in fees went away, I would still try to go cabin luggage only for short trips away (anything under a week) because it is significantly quicker than waiting for luggage to be unloaded etc. And for what it’s worth, I use a backpack, so it’s often stored at my feet due to locker space pseudo reserved for hard cases.
- jjeaff 8y agoOn many budget carriers, a personal item that fits under the seat is actually all you get for free. You have to pay extra for a carry on bag.
- deanclatworthy 8y agoNot in Europe.
- ovi256 8y agoMeanwhile, in real life Europe, check out the practices of low-cost carriers like Wizzair and Ryanair.
- systemtest 8y agoWizzair was so expensive with carry-on luggage that I ended up putting most of my clothes in a cardboard box and shipping it to the hotel using DHL. My small backpack was free and I used it for toiletries and two days of clothes.
- Ugohcet 8y agoHere is an interview with one of the survivors: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/05/07/i-was-the-last-one-walking-out-there-was-no-one-behind-me https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/05/07/i-was-the-last-one-w... TLDR: news about passengers taking luggage and blocking the evacuation are probably fake, most of the people who died couldn't evacuate because they died from CO-poisoning in seconds.
- kranner 8y agoIt may be time to start prosecuting people that carry anything out during an emergency evacuation. A heavy fine (at least) seems a reasonable price to avoid loss of life in future.
- alexis_fr 8y agoPeople carry their luggage because they know it will take years before they get reimbursed, and often they remain stranded in the foreign city with no passport. You need to ensure there is no incentive to keep your luggage, otherwise people will do it no matter the fine.
- kranner 8y agoSo jail time then. People can learn to keep their passports on their persons to avoid jail time for putting it in the carry-on and taking the carry-on.
- alexis_fr 8y agoSounds fair to me. Save time by carrying your luggage at risk of others, spend it in jail, for risking/causing the death of others.
- RandomBacon 8y agoA passport in your pocket is not "carrying your luggage". The comment even says to not put the passport in the carry-on. There is no need to be disengenious.
- crooked-v 8y agoProsecuting people for doing that won't actually change anything, because very few people in emergency situations are actually thinking clearly enough to even consider laws in the first place. Compare to airline seat belts: the reason they always have that demonstration at the start of the flight about them is because there have been cases where people literally forgot how the seatbelt worked in an emergency situation, didn't have the mental coherency available to figure it out again, and kept trying to push at the side of it where the latch release would be in a car. A better legal approach would be to place limits on carry-on luggage in the first place, so that the physical possibility of delaying evacuations with it is removed.
- jedmeyers 8y ago> They are [evacuation slides] designed for no other purpose than to empty a plane of its occupants as rapidly as possible. They are also designed to be flotation devices.
- krisoft 8y agoThe article talks about stupidity, and these people are often marked as idiots. It is important to note that people follow patterns. Dazzled, scared, and panicking people even more so. I don't know what is the solution to this problem, but I bet the first step is to drop the labels, accept that this is how many reacts currently and design around that behaviour. Take for example fire exits. We know masses have died meters from safety because they couldn't figure out to pull instead of push, or had the calm to handle a door knob. Did we blame their 'stupidity'? No, we mandated outward opening doors and push-to-open emergency latches.
- King-Aaron 8y ago"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals..." - Agent K
- speedplane 8y ago> The article talks about stupidity, and these people are often marked as idiots. ... I bet the first step is to drop the labels, accept that this is how many reacts currently and design around that behaviour. Similarly, attributing crashes to "pilot error" is an obsolete and unproductive excuse.
- CaptainZapp 8y agoSorry, but grabbing your luggage during the evacuation of a plane due to fire is incredibly stupid. All your shit can be replaced. Lifes, which depend on seconds because pathes are blocked by passengers grabbing their luggage or by dropped luggage, cannot.
- chrinic83a7 8y ago> Lifes, which depend on seconds because pathes are blocked by passengers grabbing their luggage or by dropped luggage, cannot. Have you seen any strategic military planning meeting? They literally count how many troops die and which group to replace them. This is done using numbers, not the first and last names of the troops.
- EugeneOZ 8y agoIt's a total trash article, just sensationally-hysterical crying. "It’s not clear at this point if the plane was on fire before it landed" It is totally clear, just read more official sources. Plane was not on fire before landing. You can see it even on videos. "While a deadly fire raged around them, witnesses say people were nonetheless stopping to collect their carry-ons, clogging the aisles and slowing the evacuation" It's a lie. One of the survivors, who left the plane last (not first), witnessed there was no such issue, path was clear and evacuation was quick. Engines didn't stop - they were working as blust furs, accelerating fire, so people behind the wings died in about 20 seconds. 2 people survived after row 12, just because they started running before the fire started. Such an awful example of "sensational" journalism.
- rounce 8y agoWhat are your a source(s)? As the official accident report hasn’t even been completed (let alone released) anything else is just speculation.
- dmitriid 8y agoThere are dozens of videos, including one of landing. No fire on approach
- EugeneOZ 8y agoThere are links in other comments here. There are official statements already about accident, main version is "mistakes of pilots". Before asking "sources" from just comment, try to find at least one "source" link in that click-biting trash we are discussing.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago> Plane was not on fire if you talk in terms of "proof" the videos tell there was no fire visible before the third bounce. sure it's more likely that there was no fire as opposed to a contained fire, but you need to split what video proves and what video suggests.
- 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- twelve40 8y agoThis person did not bother to read anything about the incident but is quick to blame "people's stupidity". There were plenty of details available before this was posted on May 9th, including the Wikipedia article. > If indeed lightning touched off a fire aboard Aeroflot 1492, this would be highly unusual No, the lightning did not set off a fire. There was no fire until it landed. See Wikipedia Aeroflot 1492. > there’s evidence that the death toll was higher than it should have been, thanks to the selfish actions of a number of passengers Fails to reference any of this evidence. All eyewitness accounts I've read (see below) say the passengers with bags were business class and they did not interfere with the evacuation. The state news said 4 days ago the evacuation was completed in 55 seconds (last link at the bottom). Sure, they are lying and this guy has better sources but he failed to mention where he got his "evidence" from. Eyewitnesses (a passenger and a flight attendant) say the back of the plane filled with thick smoke and started melting even before it stopped. The only people who survived in the rows 12+ were the two who rushed to the front while the plane was still moving. By the time the plane stopped people in rows 12+ were most likely already unconscious. Yet, TFA's author is smearing people as "stupid" and is 100% certain it was the stupid luggage people. https://ria.ru/20190507/1553334256.html https://ria.ru/20190507/1553334256.html https://lenta.ru/news/2019/05/06/saved/ https://lenta.ru/news/2019/05/06/saved/ https://tass.ru/proisshestviya/6403085 https://tass.ru/proisshestviya/6403085
- arcticbull 8y agoAnyone getting off the plane with a carry-on should be charged with negligent homicide or similar. 55 seconds vs 45 vs 35 could be the different between 40 dead and 42 or 44. One life matters, your laptop does not. Only one of these things can be restored from iCloud. Leave. Your. Bags. On. The. Plane. This apologism has to stop. Other than that very little you said is disrupted by the author — they themselves point out it’d be very unlikely the fire started in the air. They are a pilot after all. To your own point anyone who stops and grabs carry-on from the overhead bins while the cabin is filling with smoke and anyone past row 12 is passed out is criminally stupid. I don’t care if it took 55 seconds or 12, it’s not okay. How thrilled would you be if your grandmother died because someone couldn’t leave their laptop aboard?
- est 8y agoI hope these cases could be added to flight safety manuals, when and where this accident happened, how many people died and most importantly, why. This could be so much better than a simple "Don't bring your luggage during an emergency exit" sentence.
- bulka 8y agoFWIW the first reaction across all russian language sources was exactly the same as on this thread. From what I understand (based on later reporting and comments by two survivors) there were no delays due to people grabbing bags or anything else. The maim issue seem to have been the rear escape door not working. It might be a good idea to wait for official results of the investigation before calling for all sort of action.
- petre 8y agoMaybe the overheads compartment should lock and remain locked in the event of an accident so that people are forced to leave some of their carry-ons on the plane.
- orbital-decay 8y agoThe article raises a valid concern, but the last person who left the plane alive said in a recent interview that there was no congestion in this particular accident. [0] >Я ничего не могу сказать насчет сумок, про которые все говорят. Мне они точно не помешали: я шел последним, за мной никого не было. Я уже не могу сказать, сколько мы ждали, пока проход освободится, — время относительно, не могу точно оценить. Но я не могу сказать, что что-то тормозило эвакуацию. Был только один момент — одна женщина побежала вперед и упала, но ее вынесли. Никакой давки в самолете не было. [0] https://meduza.io/feature/2019/05/07/ya-shel-poslednim-za-mnoy-uzhe-nikogo-ne-bylo https://meduza.io/feature/2019/05/07/ya-shel-poslednim-za-mn...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- igor47 8y ago> I can't say anything regarding bags, about which everyone is talking. They definitely didn't get in my way: I went last, there was nobody behind me. I can't say how long we waited until the way was clear -- time is relative, and I cannot judge precisely. But I cannot say that there was anything interfering with the evacuation. There was one moment -- one woman ran ahead, and she fell, but she was carried out. There was no stampede/crush on the plane.
- dvcrn 8y agoWould being able to lock overhead compartments remotely solve some of these issues? Have a hardware switch somewhere for staff for emergencies to literally make it impossible for people to get their stuff. I kind of thought something like this was already possible but never gave it more thought
- crooked-v 8y agoThat sounds like it would lead to people blindly smacking at the overhead compartments in a panic when their brain gets stuck in a loop at "step 2, get bag". Sudden operational mode changes in emergencies have a long history of causing that sort of brain shutdown.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deanclatworthy 8y agoSimple solution, digital locks that are able to be activated either by the cabin crew manually, or by the pilot automatically as a result of some controls that indicate there is a problem.
- Piskvorrr 8y agoAnytime a programmer sees a non-technological issue, they think "I know, I'll use computers!" Now they have two problems. (With apologies to JZ et al.)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- logifail 8y ago> The briefings need to be shorter and more concise, and this needs to be a part of them This. Instead we get airlines making [un]funny short films stuffed with celebrities (yes, I'm looking at you, BA) because their marketing department knows it's sure-fire PR and they'll get tens of millions of clicks/views/shares on social media out of it. <sigh>
- Gys 8y agoI normally never pay attention to the briefings because I just heard too many of them. But the BA is funny. Works for me. More general about the briefings: The explanation of the life vest seems to take most of the time. I often wonder how many airplane accidents involved landing on water, making that instruction worth having every single time. Maybe someone knows ?
- unreal37 8y agoAlso, how to open and close a seat belt. Do we need that?
- crooked-v 8y agoYes. In emergencies, people forget how to operate airline seat belts often enough that airline staff have to check for it, even with the reminder.
- outworlder 8y agosigh yes I had to help a passenger once. I didn't think it was important before that.
- wtdata 8y agoCompanies are also at fault for keep cramping the seats and putting heavy fees in checked luggage so that everyone ends up only taking hand luggage. Regulations are needed.
- avar 8y agoThose passengers aren't to blame, regulators and aircraft designers are to blame. People are idiots in the aggregate, and reliably exhibit herd behavior counterproductive to their survival. Aircraft design must account for this. There's something to the famous Feynman quote if we apply it in this context: "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. -- Richard P. Feynman In order to be certified aircraft must be completely evacuated during a test in 90 seconds. Here's such a test of the A380, Boeing etc. conduct tests in the same manner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY These tests have been widely critiqued as completely unrealistic, e.g. here: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/emergency-evacuation-time-for-a-rethink/ https://www.aerosociety.com/news/emergency-evacuation-time-f... Numerous real-world examples of emergency evacuations "in the wild" have shown that evacuations proceed nothing like what's shown in these tests. If aircraft manufacturers and regulators faced up to this we wouldn't have this problem. You'd get actual safety instead. E.g. design changes to aircraft mitigating the aisle blockages that do happen in these evacuations, but aren't accounted for in tests, more emergency exits etc. This is a recurring topic, e.g. in 2015 a BA flight in Las Vegas took 5 minutes to evacuate: http://www.flight.org/the-numbnut-passenger-evacuation-of-ba-flight-2276 http://www.flight.org/the-numbnut-passenger-evacuation-of-ba...
- aaron695 8y agoI really really detest this disgracefully bullshit that's brought out every single time this happens. Every single time you exit the plane you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit, you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit, you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit, you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit, you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit, you step up, you grab your luggage, you exit. To break from this, takes brain power and could cause you to die, panic is a common alternative to break from the norm when in danger for instance. Fuck off airchair commentators. Perhaps the commentator could watch the Christchurch massacre next and comment on what they should have done rather than their stupidity.
- misja 8y agoSince training and education does not have any effect, isn't it time to make it a criminal offense to take your belongings when you are evacuated in an emergency situation?
- RandomBacon 8y agoI vote for making it a criminal offense, but I highly doubt any of the passengers are "trained" to not do that. Being told to do something is barely "education", and it is definitely not "training". Perhaps people should be taught that aircrafts are dictatorships. The crew of a ship has legal authority over passengers. The politely-spoken comment, "federal law mandates that you follow crew member instructions" in their 5 minute briefing doesn't seem to stick out to anyone.
- dragonwriter 8y agoIn the US, it already is, insofar as it is a knowing and willful violation of flight crew and/or flight attendant instructions. I imagine that generally similar laws are in place in many other jurisdictions.
- unreal37 8y agoIf the plane was on fire, filled with smoke, I don't think the risk of "criminal offense" is going to change anyone's behavior. It's a run for your life at that point.
- amelius 8y agoSolution: during the safety briefing, there should be a statement about bringing bags during an evacuation, and they should mention a fine on the order of tens of thousands of dollars for not complying.
- tomohawk 8y agoThis sounds like a great reason to: a) strongly enforce minimal luggage overhead b) require free luggage transport (up to certain limit) c) provide much stronger penalties if airlines lose luggage d) provide strong penalties if an airline allows too much luggage in the passenger compartment In Japan, having lots of luggage in overhead bins is rare. However, I've never been inconvenienced by lost luggage, or had to wait very long (if at all) for luggage at the carousel. If the airplane was a commercial building, it seems likely that the overhead bins would be banned by fire code.
- scotty79 8y agoSimple rule, in case of evacuation all luggage carried by evacuated people will be confiscated and destroyed (or returned after paying 5 years average salary to leave a loophole for rare cases of really valuable luggage). All luggage recovered from the plane after evacuation will be given back to owners.
- systemtest 8y agoBetter solution: After the evacuation, make them put the luggage back into the overhead bins.
- mcsoft 8y agoI’ve seen many posts like this in Russian media too. While the death toll is huge and the air carrier’s stock has plunged 3% down, there is a natural motivation for existence of social media fakes blaming passengers. Someone shared similar post on Facebook recently from an account that was created a few months ago and has posted only 3 meaningless picture shares ever since. Initially many media outlets did not even mention air carrier’s name in their stories covering the accident. From multiple video sources it’s clear that the plane caught fire only after violent progressive bouncing on runway. The preceding events (lightning strike, partial radio loss, overweight landing) set up a stage for a disaster but hardly were direct causes of the fire. Having been a private pilot for a while, we, pilots, are trained for emergencies. For example, my instructor routinely idles engine power without saying a word during flight reviews. On FAA practical test you are supposed to glide and land an airplane that lost power completely. Though I hope to never encounter engine loss in real life, I did dozens of practice approaches with zero power. However passengers are never trained. This accident’s survivor witnessed that screams started after first bounce. When gear failed and fire ignited on second or third kick screams got louder. One couldn’t hear crew instructions in this mess. You can’t be sure you’d behave rationally until you’re there. If we want extra safety we should train for rare situations like this. How many ditching incidents you can recall beyond Hudson miracle of 2009? Then why explain how to inflate a life vest every time on board. Shouldn’t we better teach passengers to leave their belongings, to crawl under smoke, to push other people out if they are unconscious? I would create a financial incentive for those travelers who undergone such a training and passed certain test. Statistically, however, commercial flying today is much safer than traveling by car. In the US alone about 100 people are killed on the road every single day. So if we are optimizing for the number of souls lost during transportation, it is unclear what needs to be fixed with a top priority.
- Someone 8y ago”Shouldn’t we better teach passengers to leave their belongings, to crawl under smoke, to push other people out if they are unconscious?” Teaching will help only a little, at best. You would have to train passengers. The more they’re under stress, the harder it is for untrained passengers to deviate from their standard “leave a plane” program. That includes taking one’s luggage and waiting for other passengers. And yes, that applies to the life vests instructions, too. Advantage there is, that if you need those, chances are you’ll have minutes to prepare (but often, passengers still will make the mistake of opening them while inside the plane)
- lutorm 8y agoThis is a sobering reminder that keeping something like https://cooltravelstuff.com/product/pocket-smoke-mask/ https://cooltravelstuff.com/product/pocket-smoke-mask/ in your carryon may save your life if you have the misfortune to end up in a situation like this. There have been several accidents where passengers perished in an otherwise survivable situation due to smoke inhalation. The most well-known example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airtours_Flight_28M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airtours_Flight_28M which had to abort a takeoff due to an engine fire where leaked fuel ended up quickly burning through the fuselage in a similar manner to what appears to have happened here. Whether you think the risk is worth the hassle is up to you to decide.
- chmike 8y agoIt might help if the pilots could lock and unlock the luggage stores. This would prevent anybody to get at them in emergency evacuation situation.
- mcsoft 8y agoOfficial sources deny it, from Wikipedia Aeroflot 1492: The information that evacuation was delayed because some passengers grabbed their baggage have not been confirmed. According to TASS's law enforcement source the majority of passengers in the tail end of the aircraft had practically no chance of rescue. "This is evidenced by the position of the bodies of many passengers who were found in the tail of the aircraft. They did not even have time to unfasten their seat belts, they died of poisoning in their seats. Someone might have lost consciousness when the plane hit the runway. The causes of death of all the victims are now established" - said the source. He added that the passengers from the tail section of the aircraft, who managed to escape, moved to the front of the aircraft even before it stopped.[10] According to witnesses some baggage fell from overhead compartments during the hard landing and passengers removed them in order to free the passage.[11]