20 ms·

Amazon must remove toxic school supplies, kids’ jewelry from US marketplace

313 points by tareqak 7y ago

css 7y ago
They did this recently to non-UL certified power equipment, no surprise they’re expanding to other product categories.
dqpb 7y ago
They should also let you filter by country of origin.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  This will likely not be useful: now you can't buy iPhones, and many companies will perform "assembly" in the United States to get around these kinds of things.
  - dd36 7y ago
    Markets can’t work their market signal magic if information is concealed. If I don’t want to support an authoritarian regime, I shouldn’t have to.
    - geofft 7y ago
      I don't disagree, but why can't the market itself solve that instead of requiring government intervention? Just don't buy from people who don't disclose their supply chain (and perhaps rely on government to punish those who commit fraud by lying).
      - dd36 7y ago
        Because it’s cheaper to lie and accountability would require the government anyways. If forced arbitration and class action bans weren’t a thing then maybe private citizens could band together and sue but that method of accountability has been effectively killed.
      - dd36 7y ago
        Also, you wouldn’t have nutrition facts on labels without regulation. Some things the market just can’t solve.
      - jahewson 7y ago
        Then you just get people lying about their supply chain. Markets require a certain amount of trust to function and that requires strong institutions to keep bad behaviour in check. Without that foundation you don’t really have a market, at least not for long. I wouldn’t expect a market to stop this kind of behaviour but to simply put a price on it - “oh you want the non-toxic version? That’s an extra $20 please.”
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        > I wouldn’t expect a market to stop this kind of behaviour but to simply put a price on it - “oh you want the non-toxic version? That’s an extra $20 please.” That isn't a market solution, it's a bad-faith caricature. Obviously, no vendor is going to offer you a choice between toxic and non-toxic, because doing so would mean admitting one of their products was toxic. The market solution is branding; some vendors will build up reputations, and those good reputations will let them charge a higher price. This very minute you're commenting in a thread that's mostly about how Amazon's poor offerings are blackening its name.
        luckylion 7y ago
        > The market solution is branding; some vendors will build up reputations, and those good reputations will let them charge a higher price. And the scammer will simply use the brand without license and profit from the reputation of the original manufacturer. Nobody can do anything about because there's no government to enforce laws.
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Trademark protection is a pretty different set of law than product standards is.
        luckylion 7y ago
        Sure, but I understood the idea was "we don't need governments and laws, the market can take care of all of that, people will choose wisely".
    - chrischen 7y ago
      What about supporting the poor people in the authoritarian regime?
      - dd36 7y ago
        Comfort won’t result in regime change. Isn’t that why we sanction?
        chrischen 7y ago
        Yes, by applying external pressure in our interests to get what we want from another population.
      - programmarchy 7y ago
        By unwittingly purchasing cheap, poisonous crap?
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    manufactured in china isn't the same as shipped from a chinese seller. i think it would be difficult to profitably use the assembly workaround for small cheap stuff that gets sold by junk peddlers a la this press release
  - bastawhiz 7y ago
    If I'm buying clothes for the gym, I don't want to buy "ROWILUX" or "YAKER" or "YSENTO" brand. I've bought enough to know they're all junk. Just show me the stuff that people actually put effort into! If I'm looking for an iPhone, I'll search for iPhones. If I'm looking for tank tops, show me the ones that aren't going to disintegrate after a month.
    - astura 7y ago
      Jeez, I thought you were making up those brand names. Turns out they are real https://www.amazon.com/sp?seller=A3P9TYWGAPWJQM https://www.amazon.com/sp?seller=A3P9TYWGAPWJQM https://www.amazon.com/stores/YAKER/node/13187735011 https://www.amazon.com/stores/YAKER/node/13187735011 https://www.amazon.com/stores/ROWILUX/主页/page/2DD5E212-93B0-458F-B4DF-1F73CE6A14F5 https://www.amazon.com/stores/ROWILUX/主页/page/2DD5E212-93B0-...
      - makomk 7y ago
        Oh, that's nothing. Try doing a search for ARSUXEO (mostly cycling clothing)...
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      > If I'm buying clothes for the gym, I don't want to buy "ROWILUX" or "YAKER" or "YSENTO" brand. I've bought enough to know they're all junk. Just show me the stuff that people actually put effort into! This is actually how I feel about self-published books. Amazon won't stop recommending them to me. I bought a couple, and the writing quality is truly atrocious. So now self-published just means I am guaranteed not to buy the book unless it gets a meaningful recommendation from someone trustworthy. And I once bought the cheapest available toilet paper from Lucky. It was terrible, definitely not worth the minor savings. On the other hand, I don't really think it's wrong for Amazon to be selling self-published books, or for Lucky to be selling ultra-cheap toilet paper.
    - dawnerd 7y ago
      Those have ruined Amazon for me. Literally any search you do will yield pages of junk knockoff products with a name like that, all uppercase. It's ridiculous, really.
- hedora 7y ago
  Many of the items in the article look like they are licensed from major brands. I’d guess they are counterfeit, so filtering by where the real item is manufactured doesn’t really help with things like toxic materials. (I’m not arguing against such filters, just pointing out that they may not solve this problem.)
- aitchnyu 7y ago
  Spanish and Greek olive oils are sold as "Bottled in Italy". A country could game your supply chain desires. https://epochproducts.com/blog/is-your-italian-olive-oil-really-italian/ https://epochproducts.com/blog/is-your-italian-olive-oil-rea... https://www.foodbeast.com/news/olive-oil-spain/ https://www.foodbeast.com/news/olive-oil-spain/
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    The EU's own laws don't distinguish between EU countries, you need only label something as "made in the EU". But, they still can't lie – "from Italian olives" had to mean that. You could buy olive oil from a producer in an area with protected origin status, similar to Champagne for wine. That's likely to cost more. https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety-and-quality/certification/quality-labels/quality-schemes-explained https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety...
mtnGoat 7y ago
As a Washing State resident, I am happy to see our state leading the charge in these kinds of efforts.
Someone1234 7y ago
They should also be required to remove the "SoClean." A device designed to intentionally pump toxic ozone into medical breathing assistance devices. Ozone has a limit but studies have shown even below the legal limit[0][1][2] can be considered harmful. The population that typically use devices like CPAPs may be more vulnerable than the general populous to ozone exposure (and this exposure is targeted due to the usage of the "SoClean"). Mark my words: This will be looked back on like asbestos, radon clocks, and giving kids x-ray toys. [0] https://www.healtheffects.org/research/ongoing-research/effects-ozone-human-volunteers-exposed-low-levels-ozone-laboratory https://www.healtheffects.org/research/ongoing-research/effe... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5755393/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5755393/ [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060216231940.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060216231940.h...
- verelo 7y ago
  I’ve got a UV filter in my furnace that i believe produces ozone, should i be concerned in your opinion?
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    Probably no reason for concern. The bog-standard germicidal lights emit UV at 254 nm, but to generate ozone you'd need vacuum UV at 189 nm. You'd expect this to be filtered out, precisely because of the health hazard. That said, I'd be concerned around photocopiers. If you can smell ozone it's definitely above occupational exposure threshold. In a previous workplace I kept telling our secretary just that, but she wouldn't listen.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    There's two types of UV Air Filters, based on UV-A and UV-C. UV-A systems don't produce much ozone (but sometimes the bulbs are imperfect and produce a trace amount). Ozone is produced by ultraviolet light in the 160–240nm range, meaning UV-C. If you have a UV-C based UV Filter I wouldn't call that ideal but at least you're still receiving less than a ozone generator or even an ioniser both of which would produce higher ozone levels. You may still wish to crack a window occasionally and look at a HEPA filter next major upgrade cycle.
userbinator 7y ago
I wonder what they're using the lead and cadmium for? Also, "toxic" may be overexaggerating; "poisonous" or even "possibly harmful" might be more accurate, but even then, from what I understand you'd have to consume a lot of it for it to be a problem. (I worked on electronics and soldered with real lead solder for many decades, starting when I was a kid, and think RoHS and the lead-ban has caused far more environmental problems.) Edit: apparently controversial opinions are not welcome here either...? Or is it the "chemicals are scary" crowd again? :|
- rectangletangle 7y ago
  They're probably using the cadmium for red paint/dye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_pigments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_pigments
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Worth reading the safety section, which starts with this sentence: Cadmium sulfide is not very toxic (LD50 above 5,000 mg/kg) when used as a pigment, although acute exposure to cadmium vapors from welding is harmful. For comparison, sodium chloride (table salt) has an LD50 of 3,000mg/kg.
    - aaronbwebber 7y ago
      Using the LD50 for a carcinogen is inappropriate. LD50s are used as a measure of acute toxicity. The issue isn't that it's going to kill you from toxicity, it's that if you expose thousands of children to even low levels of it many more of them will get cancers than they otherwise would.
- verelo 7y ago
  Not familiar with the reasons why the lead ban or rohs would be an issue for the environment, can you point me in the right direction? They seem like positive moves on the surface, but I’m sure they’re not as straightforward as I’d like.
ng12 7y ago
Good. Amazon is just lazy when it comes to product quality. Any non-specialty product has a pretty high chance of being a fake and/or manufactured with sub-standard materials. It's shaken my confidence to the point where, even as a card-carrying Prime member, I'd rather shlep over to Target than order from Amazon.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Precisely. If I can't trust Amazon to detect a counterfeit Apple charger, then why would I trust them to test anything for something even more subtle?
  - ninjakeyboard 7y ago
    Amazon isn't making this, they probably don't see samples of every good, and they definitely don't grind up the whole product and test it. It's paint and pigment that has lead/cadmium so only certain colours and portions of the products will have these qualities.
    - ng12 7y ago
      But this is exactly why my confidence is shaken -- if Amazon has trouble vetting products from one of the most tightly controlled supply chains (Apple) why should I trust them with anything else?
    - duxup 7y ago
      They don't test, but I'm not sure they care so much about the volume of fakes and vendors selling them. Amazon sells illegitimate books with identical covers to a legit copy and keeps selling them after the authors contact Amazon .... like it's not even hard to detect those, but they don't.
      - nostrebored 7y ago
        Detecting individual merchants distributing fake book copies to potentially one of many stores in a multi national distribution network is simple?
mmastrac 7y ago
This isn't just Amazon. CBC in Canada found lead and cadmium in major retailers in Canada. It's cheap chinese imports that are the problem overall. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cadmium-jewelry-ardene-aldo-1.3404036 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cadmium-jewelry-ardene-aldo-1...
- imglorp 7y ago
  Pet food also, containing melamine for whatever reason, responsible for a number of deaths 10 years ago. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/recalls-withdrawals/melamine-pet-food-recall-frequently-asked-questions https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/recalls-withdrawals/me...
  - mmastrac 7y ago
    I had forgotten about that. IIRC it was theorized melamine was used to fake protein tests.
  - BooneJS 7y ago
    That killed my brother’s English setter. Poor thing wasted away to nothing.
mherdeg 7y ago
A while back as a joke a friend ordered us the first 20 search results on AliExpress for 'panda' which were less than $1 shipped. Stuff trickled in from China, Estonia, and Myanmar over the following month or two. We've been keeping it all in a bucket -- magnets, erasers, stickers, a baffling little squishy rainbow caterpillar panda, and mostly very small plush animal toys. The winner of the batch was a surprisingly high-quality hand puppet. We let our toddler play with a couple of these tiny toys because they seemed fun; we did make him wash his hands afterwards before eating, but still in retrospect I think that was a mistake. There are zero enforced regulatory requirements for that marketplace and those manufacturers at that price point, and we have no way of knowing what cheap but toxic paint or additives were used. We should probably just dump the panda bucket :(
- Symbiote 7y ago
  The Estonian toy ought to comply with EU regulations (maybe only if it's also sold in the EU). These are fairly strict. I can't find reports of Eastern European being non-conformant more often than Western European goods, but I haven't looked very much. You can look for a CE mark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
rgrieselhuber 7y ago
It would be useful to have items that are foreign imports clearly labeled on Amazon.
- markdown 7y ago
  That would be most things. It would make (a little) more sense to tag "Made in USA" products.
  - rgrieselhuber 7y ago
    That works too
xfitm3 7y ago
The law finally catches up with online retailers.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
AnaniasAnanas 7y ago
Shouldn't there be criminal charges for this?
everybodyknows 7y ago
The scary thing is, Amazon is required only to collect a piece of paper from the seller and yank products when notified -- the really substantial burden of continuing enforcements is put back on the individual states: "Moreover, if the Attorney General or Washington Department of Ecology advise Amazon of any children’s school supplies or jewelry that exceed safe levels, Amazon must remove the product from its online marketplace within two business days." Nothing less than a program of frequent random sampling is going to keep the products clean. Times 50, plus international.
benjamincburns 7y ago
Amazon is becoming more and more like AliExpress with respect to product accuracy and quality. As an example, I recently bought tomato seeds for my garden. I searched for rainbow tomatoes, and the bulk of the results were clearly photoshopped photos made to look like they'd grow tomatoes with colors that'd get lost in a ball pit. It's easy to evaluate on things like that, but on stuff where corners can be cut I definitely worry.
- discreditable 7y ago
  A while back I bought habanero seeds on Amazon. They sprouted and did well, but they put out regular sweet peppers. I've bought catnip seeds that were fine. Anymore, I only buy seeds from the store though.
DannyBee 7y ago
"Amazon entered into a nationwide legally binding agreement to block the sale of children’s schools supplies and jewelry on Amazon.com without lab reports and other proof from the sellers that the products are not toxic." IE Amazon can pass the buck completely to the sellers. This will simultaneously make it expensive for those sellers actually trying to comply (lab testing is not cheap), and do nothing for those that were likely the problem in the first place (who will just fake lab results and do so at a lesser price)[1] They should require amazon to randomly sample. [1] In case you think this is not a real problem note that similar kinds of lab testing requirements destroyed, for example, children's toys except from large scale sellers who could afford the cost of compliance (see https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Education/Toy-Safety-Business-Guidance-and-Small-Entity-Compliance-Guide https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Educat...). You will find basically no small manufacturers of childrens toys anymore. Different cause, but likely same effect. I'm sure it made things safer in some sense, but yeah.
- josho 7y ago
  > They should require amazon to randomly sample. If governments cared about safety they would do the sampling and fine companies a meaningful percent of profit. That would fix these problems once and for all. Unfortunately we’ve elected governments that cut regulations which encourages the opposite behavior from companies.
  - wallace_f 7y ago
    >Unfortunately we’ve elected governments that cut regulation It's really not that simple. The regulations here benefit Amazon. This is why Facebook is asking to be regulated. It's called regulatory capture. It's a product of corporatism or cronyism. Established corporations lobby for regulations that shut out small business and protect their profits.
    - daveFNbuck 7y ago
      While I care a lot about having a competitive marketplace, it's much more important to me that I and my family aren't poisoned. Are you saying that smaller companies can't compete with Amazon if everyone has to check that they're not poisoning us?
docker_up 7y ago
FFS now we have to worry about this too? I guess I'm naive but I trusted Amazon but it makes sense that they just sold whatever they wanted without testing. They should have dedicated 10X the $700,000 and have been fined, my God I'm upset right now.
zelpo 7y ago
Just last week I was picking my son up from school when I noticed he had a can of Xylene in his bookbag. I asked him where he got it and he said Aamazon
- Symbiote 7y ago
  The primary reason I'm aware of for a youth to have xylene is solvent abuse (glue sniffing, essentially). It's illegal to sell it to someone under 18 in the UK.
benatkin 7y ago
Or not. Amazon is just a platform, remember?
weiming 7y ago
We wanted to order Evian or Fiji bottled water from Amazon but were put off by reviews mentioning oddly attached labels, misshapen bottles, wrong tint on bottle caps. So we just stuck with local supermarket water delivery. Fake water? Wondering if anyone has tried ordering these.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Why would you want water carried from halfway around the planet anyway? That's an awful waste of resources.
jorblumesea 7y ago
Good, why is being online a pass for selling toxic products? I don't understand the standards we apply. If Target or Walmart sold lead laced school supplies people would flip, regardless of who actually made the product. It is on the distributor to guarantee the product quality and supply chain quality. I've always failed to understand why being online has made them untouchable.
- edejong 7y ago
  Exactly this. Perhaps the reasoning is that Amazon functions more like a bazaar, offering other companies a storefront. But then I’d expect expression of identity of these storefronts as well.
farshaddx619 7y ago
rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی صورت</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی افتادگی پلک</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی اینستاگرام</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی احسان علیخانی</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی صورت</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی بدن</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی واژن</a> <a href="http://www.20to20.biz/product/sample-product/خرید-پودر-جوانه-گندم-200گرمی-گلها/" http://www.20to20.biz/product/sample-product/خرید-پودر-جوانه... rel="follow"> پودر جوانه گندم گلها</a>
dgzl 7y ago
Whenever you say "government should do xyz", you're actually saying "the government should steal money from taxpayers to carelessly attempt to do xyz".
- azinman2 7y ago
  As opposed to... careful Amazon? Careful maker of these toxic kid supplies?! I don’t get this whole idea that government necessarily means poor quality. In using it to take away money, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There’s plenty that the gov already does well that we trust and depend on. If we had a bigger collective empathic view for others, a stronger notion of the value of civil service, and a closed wage gap between public and private, we could expect and get more from public institutions.
  - markjspivey 7y ago
    well technically then it shouldn’t be assumed one way or the other, so your comment also shouldnt imply one way or the other ... right ? the reality most humans “scientifically” should assume is that “governments” or “public institutions” aren’t people ... and that means something ...
- ebg13 7y ago
  Who the fuck else is going to do it? Clearly not the market or the products wouldn't be there right now. Every time you argue against governments regulating markets, you ignore the fact that regulations get written in blood.
  - johnisgood 7y ago
    Is this another instance of "who will build the roads"? https://mises.org/library/safety-and-market-economy https://mises.org/library/safety-and-market-economy https://mises.org/library/what-keeps-us-safe-0 https://mises.org/library/what-keeps-us-safe-0 https://mises.org/library/what-will-keep-our-food-safe https://mises.org/library/what-will-keep-our-food-safe https://mises.org/library/do-food-makers-want-kill-you https://mises.org/library/do-food-makers-want-kill-you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5OYdGevAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5OYdGevAQ Bonus: https://mises.org/wire/government-road-management-there-better-way https://mises.org/wire/government-road-management-there-bett... On top of that, your justification ("who the fuck else is going to do it?") of violence ("steal money from taxpayers") is quite alarming.
jxramos 7y ago
What's the root cause precisely for where all this toxic material originates from? How does it get into a factory in the first place? Is it some kind of sabotage or is this stuff inherently in raw materials that require processing that is omitted? How does one find oneself with a bunch of lead in this day and age without seeking it out?
- freeone3000 7y ago
  Lead and cadmium are used in paints - lead for white, cadmium for yellow. The west has discontinued them for toxicity reasons, but they're still prevalent in China.
  - jxramos 7y ago
    Does that mean they’re deliberately added to paints? How does one produce paint with and without these chemicals?
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      They are added to pigments, that are then mixed into the paints. The company mixing the paints may or may not know those chemicals are in the pigments that they purchase from another supplier.
bertm 7y ago
I worked for a long time as a chemical engineer making cadmium containing quantum dots. We had many discussions inside the company about complying with the EPA's TSCA regulations. https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substances-control-act https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substance... The reason why these regulations exist was because toys and consumer goods would be imported with red paint that contained cadmium. Usually the importer is responsible for complying or at least reporting to the EPA under TSCA.
pjc50 7y ago
Again on the poor Amazon quality and co-mingling - is this a US only problem or is it also present in the EU? Note that we already have a CE marking requirement which is supposed to imply a certain level of safety.
AlexandrB 7y ago
As a retailer, Amazon has become incredibly lazy. Ironically, books is where this shows the most. In my area they now just ship them in padded envelopes, meaning at least 50% of the time the book arrives with dented corners, or a damaged cover.
netwanderer3 7y ago
It's pretty great to witness a policy or law that was applied correctly by a government to prevent further public damages, no matter how big the target corporation is.
rjmunro 7y ago
As a Brit, I find the title of this really hard to parse. I was trying to work out if "toxic school supplies" was some sort of brand of jewelry or something. Why don't American's use an "and" here: > Amazon must remove toxic school supplies and kids’ jewelry from US marketplace To me, that's much clearer.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Majromax 7y ago
  > Why don't American's use an "and" here: Doing so is still standard American English. However, headline writing in particular has a tradition of extreme brevity, and this style leaves out conjunctions and adjectives (including articles). As another example of ambiguity, the article title here isn't explicitly clear that Amazon must remove these items from its marketplace. Read literally, "from US marketplace" could imply (somehow) the entire United States retail environment.
flatlandia 7y ago
The simple, one-dimensional world you live in must be lovely.
Roark66 7y ago
This whole situation is the result of countries like China that most of those products are made in lack a real justice system. Anyone who has ever tried to sue a Chinese company in a Chinese court knows it is impossible for a foreigner to win. Ever. No matter the evidence. If China had a just justice system as exists in many other countries developing and developed this problem wouldn't exist. Unfortunately in today's China you can still be sure you will keep your money you made conning people as long as those people are foreigners.
- apta 7y ago
  And people still protest at the sanctions the US government is imposing on China. If it gets garbage products off the market, I'm all for it.
josefresco 7y ago
If Amazon doesn't get a handle on quality control, and product misrepresentation/swapping scams they will start to be perceived as Ebay/AliExpress/Wish.com where "anything goes". I realize Ebay has controls to protect consumers, but the perception for everyday people is that it's risky, but you might find a deal. I rarely use Ebay anymore, and in fact just purchased some sneakers there after probably 6+ years of not purchasing anything. I crossed my fingers, fully expected to be ripped off and lucked out, the product was exactly as advertised. I would not have purchased them if the discount wasn't so dramatic. This is all anecdotal based on my experience and the exp of my peer group.
djsumdog 7y ago
How exactly does this much lead get into these products? Are they on shared assembly lines with bullet manufacturing?!
- swebs 7y ago
  China imports garbage and recycles it for raw materials. A lot of that garbage contains circuit boards, which use solder composed of 50% lead.
abeppu 7y ago
I get that kids are especially vulnerable, but shouldn't we also try to not sell stuff which is non-obviously toxic for use by adults also? Why should any consumer have to be afraid that a backpack or book cover has a high amount of lead?
mproud 7y ago
Only $700,000?

313 points by tareqak 7y ago

css 7y ago

They did this recently to non-UL certified power equipment, no surprise they’re expanding to other product categories.

dqpb 7y ago

They should also let you filter by country of origin.

saagarjha 7y ago
This will likely not be useful: now you can't buy iPhones, and many companies will perform "assembly" in the United States to get around these kinds of things.
- dd36 7y ago
  Markets can’t work their market signal magic if information is concealed. If I don’t want to support an authoritarian regime, I shouldn’t have to.
  - geofft 7y ago
    I don't disagree, but why can't the market itself solve that instead of requiring government intervention? Just don't buy from people who don't disclose their supply chain (and perhaps rely on government to punish those who commit fraud by lying).
    - dd36 7y ago
      Because it’s cheaper to lie and accountability would require the government anyways. If forced arbitration and class action bans weren’t a thing then maybe private citizens could band together and sue but that method of accountability has been effectively killed.
    - dd36 7y ago
      Also, you wouldn’t have nutrition facts on labels without regulation. Some things the market just can’t solve.
    - jahewson 7y ago
      Then you just get people lying about their supply chain. Markets require a certain amount of trust to function and that requires strong institutions to keep bad behaviour in check. Without that foundation you don’t really have a market, at least not for long. I wouldn’t expect a market to stop this kind of behaviour but to simply put a price on it - “oh you want the non-toxic version? That’s an extra $20 please.”
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        > I wouldn’t expect a market to stop this kind of behaviour but to simply put a price on it - “oh you want the non-toxic version? That’s an extra $20 please.” That isn't a market solution, it's a bad-faith caricature. Obviously, no vendor is going to offer you a choice between toxic and non-toxic, because doing so would mean admitting one of their products was toxic. The market solution is branding; some vendors will build up reputations, and those good reputations will let them charge a higher price. This very minute you're commenting in a thread that's mostly about how Amazon's poor offerings are blackening its name.
        luckylion 7y ago
        > The market solution is branding; some vendors will build up reputations, and those good reputations will let them charge a higher price. And the scammer will simply use the brand without license and profit from the reputation of the original manufacturer. Nobody can do anything about because there's no government to enforce laws.
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Trademark protection is a pretty different set of law than product standards is.
        luckylion 7y ago
        Sure, but I understood the idea was "we don't need governments and laws, the market can take care of all of that, people will choose wisely".
  - chrischen 7y ago
    What about supporting the poor people in the authoritarian regime?
    - dd36 7y ago
      Comfort won’t result in regime change. Isn’t that why we sanction?
      - chrischen 7y ago
        Yes, by applying external pressure in our interests to get what we want from another population.
    - programmarchy 7y ago
      By unwittingly purchasing cheap, poisonous crap?
- nyolfen 7y ago
  manufactured in china isn't the same as shipped from a chinese seller. i think it would be difficult to profitably use the assembly workaround for small cheap stuff that gets sold by junk peddlers a la this press release
- bastawhiz 7y ago
  If I'm buying clothes for the gym, I don't want to buy "ROWILUX" or "YAKER" or "YSENTO" brand. I've bought enough to know they're all junk. Just show me the stuff that people actually put effort into! If I'm looking for an iPhone, I'll search for iPhones. If I'm looking for tank tops, show me the ones that aren't going to disintegrate after a month.
  - astura 7y ago
    Jeez, I thought you were making up those brand names. Turns out they are real https://www.amazon.com/sp?seller=A3P9TYWGAPWJQM https://www.amazon.com/sp?seller=A3P9TYWGAPWJQM https://www.amazon.com/stores/YAKER/node/13187735011 https://www.amazon.com/stores/YAKER/node/13187735011 https://www.amazon.com/stores/ROWILUX/主页/page/2DD5E212-93B0-458F-B4DF-1F73CE6A14F5 https://www.amazon.com/stores/ROWILUX/主页/page/2DD5E212-93B0-...
    - makomk 7y ago
      Oh, that's nothing. Try doing a search for ARSUXEO (mostly cycling clothing)...
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > If I'm buying clothes for the gym, I don't want to buy "ROWILUX" or "YAKER" or "YSENTO" brand. I've bought enough to know they're all junk. Just show me the stuff that people actually put effort into! This is actually how I feel about self-published books. Amazon won't stop recommending them to me. I bought a couple, and the writing quality is truly atrocious. So now self-published just means I am guaranteed not to buy the book unless it gets a meaningful recommendation from someone trustworthy. And I once bought the cheapest available toilet paper from Lucky. It was terrible, definitely not worth the minor savings. On the other hand, I don't really think it's wrong for Amazon to be selling self-published books, or for Lucky to be selling ultra-cheap toilet paper.
  - dawnerd 7y ago
    Those have ruined Amazon for me. Literally any search you do will yield pages of junk knockoff products with a name like that, all uppercase. It's ridiculous, really.
hedora 7y ago
Many of the items in the article look like they are licensed from major brands. I’d guess they are counterfeit, so filtering by where the real item is manufactured doesn’t really help with things like toxic materials. (I’m not arguing against such filters, just pointing out that they may not solve this problem.)
aitchnyu 7y ago
Spanish and Greek olive oils are sold as "Bottled in Italy". A country could game your supply chain desires. https://epochproducts.com/blog/is-your-italian-olive-oil-really-italian/ https://epochproducts.com/blog/is-your-italian-olive-oil-rea... https://www.foodbeast.com/news/olive-oil-spain/ https://www.foodbeast.com/news/olive-oil-spain/
- Symbiote 7y ago
  The EU's own laws don't distinguish between EU countries, you need only label something as "made in the EU". But, they still can't lie – "from Italian olives" had to mean that. You could buy olive oil from a producer in an area with protected origin status, similar to Champagne for wine. That's likely to cost more. https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety-and-quality/certification/quality-labels/quality-schemes-explained https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety...

mtnGoat 7y ago

As a Washing State resident, I am happy to see our state leading the charge in these kinds of efforts.

Someone1234 7y ago

They should also be required to remove the "SoClean." A device designed to intentionally pump toxic ozone into medical breathing assistance devices. Ozone has a limit but studies have shown even below the legal limit[0][1][2] can be considered harmful. The population that typically use devices like CPAPs may be more vulnerable than the general populous to ozone exposure (and this exposure is targeted due to the usage of the "SoClean"). Mark my words: This will be looked back on like asbestos, radon clocks, and giving kids x-ray toys. [0] https://www.healtheffects.org/research/ongoing-research/effects-ozone-human-volunteers-exposed-low-levels-ozone-laboratory https://www.healtheffects.org/research/ongoing-research/effe... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5755393/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5755393/ [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060216231940.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060216231940.h...

verelo 7y ago
I’ve got a UV filter in my furnace that i believe produces ozone, should i be concerned in your opinion?
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  Probably no reason for concern. The bog-standard germicidal lights emit UV at 254 nm, but to generate ozone you'd need vacuum UV at 189 nm. You'd expect this to be filtered out, precisely because of the health hazard. That said, I'd be concerned around photocopiers. If you can smell ozone it's definitely above occupational exposure threshold. In a previous workplace I kept telling our secretary just that, but she wouldn't listen.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  There's two types of UV Air Filters, based on UV-A and UV-C. UV-A systems don't produce much ozone (but sometimes the bulbs are imperfect and produce a trace amount). Ozone is produced by ultraviolet light in the 160–240nm range, meaning UV-C. If you have a UV-C based UV Filter I wouldn't call that ideal but at least you're still receiving less than a ozone generator or even an ioniser both of which would produce higher ozone levels. You may still wish to crack a window occasionally and look at a HEPA filter next major upgrade cycle.

userbinator 7y ago

I wonder what they're using the lead and cadmium for? Also, "toxic" may be overexaggerating; "poisonous" or even "possibly harmful" might be more accurate, but even then, from what I understand you'd have to consume a lot of it for it to be a problem. (I worked on electronics and soldered with real lead solder for many decades, starting when I was a kid, and think RoHS and the lead-ban has caused far more environmental problems.) Edit: apparently controversial opinions are not welcome here either...? Or is it the "chemicals are scary" crowd again? :|

rectangletangle 7y ago
They're probably using the cadmium for red paint/dye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_pigments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_pigments
- userbinator 7y ago
  Worth reading the safety section, which starts with this sentence: Cadmium sulfide is not very toxic (LD50 above 5,000 mg/kg) when used as a pigment, although acute exposure to cadmium vapors from welding is harmful. For comparison, sodium chloride (table salt) has an LD50 of 3,000mg/kg.
  - aaronbwebber 7y ago
    Using the LD50 for a carcinogen is inappropriate. LD50s are used as a measure of acute toxicity. The issue isn't that it's going to kill you from toxicity, it's that if you expose thousands of children to even low levels of it many more of them will get cancers than they otherwise would.
verelo 7y ago
Not familiar with the reasons why the lead ban or rohs would be an issue for the environment, can you point me in the right direction? They seem like positive moves on the surface, but I’m sure they’re not as straightforward as I’d like.

ng12 7y ago

Good. Amazon is just lazy when it comes to product quality. Any non-specialty product has a pretty high chance of being a fake and/or manufactured with sub-standard materials. It's shaken my confidence to the point where, even as a card-carrying Prime member, I'd rather shlep over to Target than order from Amazon.

ethbro 7y ago
Precisely. If I can't trust Amazon to detect a counterfeit Apple charger, then why would I trust them to test anything for something even more subtle?
- ninjakeyboard 7y ago
  Amazon isn't making this, they probably don't see samples of every good, and they definitely don't grind up the whole product and test it. It's paint and pigment that has lead/cadmium so only certain colours and portions of the products will have these qualities.
  - ng12 7y ago
    But this is exactly why my confidence is shaken -- if Amazon has trouble vetting products from one of the most tightly controlled supply chains (Apple) why should I trust them with anything else?
  - duxup 7y ago
    They don't test, but I'm not sure they care so much about the volume of fakes and vendors selling them. Amazon sells illegitimate books with identical covers to a legit copy and keeps selling them after the authors contact Amazon .... like it's not even hard to detect those, but they don't.
    - nostrebored 7y ago
      Detecting individual merchants distributing fake book copies to potentially one of many stores in a multi national distribution network is simple?

mmastrac 7y ago

This isn't just Amazon. CBC in Canada found lead and cadmium in major retailers in Canada. It's cheap chinese imports that are the problem overall. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cadmium-jewelry-ardene-aldo-1.3404036 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cadmium-jewelry-ardene-aldo-1...

imglorp 7y ago
Pet food also, containing melamine for whatever reason, responsible for a number of deaths 10 years ago. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/recalls-withdrawals/melamine-pet-food-recall-frequently-asked-questions https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/recalls-withdrawals/me...
- mmastrac 7y ago
  I had forgotten about that. IIRC it was theorized melamine was used to fake protein tests.
- BooneJS 7y ago
  That killed my brother’s English setter. Poor thing wasted away to nothing.

mherdeg 7y ago

A while back as a joke a friend ordered us the first 20 search results on AliExpress for 'panda' which were less than $1 shipped. Stuff trickled in from China, Estonia, and Myanmar over the following month or two. We've been keeping it all in a bucket -- magnets, erasers, stickers, a baffling little squishy rainbow caterpillar panda, and mostly very small plush animal toys. The winner of the batch was a surprisingly high-quality hand puppet. We let our toddler play with a couple of these tiny toys because they seemed fun; we did make him wash his hands afterwards before eating, but still in retrospect I think that was a mistake. There are zero enforced regulatory requirements for that marketplace and those manufacturers at that price point, and we have no way of knowing what cheap but toxic paint or additives were used. We should probably just dump the panda bucket :(

Symbiote 7y ago
The Estonian toy ought to comply with EU regulations (maybe only if it's also sold in the EU). These are fairly strict. I can't find reports of Eastern European being non-conformant more often than Western European goods, but I haven't looked very much. You can look for a CE mark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

rgrieselhuber 7y ago

It would be useful to have items that are foreign imports clearly labeled on Amazon.

markdown 7y ago
That would be most things. It would make (a little) more sense to tag "Made in USA" products.
- rgrieselhuber 7y ago
  That works too

xfitm3 7y ago

The law finally catches up with online retailers.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

AnaniasAnanas 7y ago

Shouldn't there be criminal charges for this?

everybodyknows 7y ago

The scary thing is, Amazon is required only to collect a piece of paper from the seller and yank products when notified -- the really substantial burden of continuing enforcements is put back on the individual states: "Moreover, if the Attorney General or Washington Department of Ecology advise Amazon of any children’s school supplies or jewelry that exceed safe levels, Amazon must remove the product from its online marketplace within two business days." Nothing less than a program of frequent random sampling is going to keep the products clean. Times 50, plus international.

benjamincburns 7y ago

Amazon is becoming more and more like AliExpress with respect to product accuracy and quality. As an example, I recently bought tomato seeds for my garden. I searched for rainbow tomatoes, and the bulk of the results were clearly photoshopped photos made to look like they'd grow tomatoes with colors that'd get lost in a ball pit. It's easy to evaluate on things like that, but on stuff where corners can be cut I definitely worry.

discreditable 7y ago
A while back I bought habanero seeds on Amazon. They sprouted and did well, but they put out regular sweet peppers. I've bought catnip seeds that were fine. Anymore, I only buy seeds from the store though.

DannyBee 7y ago

"Amazon entered into a nationwide legally binding agreement to block the sale of children’s schools supplies and jewelry on Amazon.com without lab reports and other proof from the sellers that the products are not toxic." IE Amazon can pass the buck completely to the sellers. This will simultaneously make it expensive for those sellers actually trying to comply (lab testing is not cheap), and do nothing for those that were likely the problem in the first place (who will just fake lab results and do so at a lesser price)[1] They should require amazon to randomly sample. [1] In case you think this is not a real problem note that similar kinds of lab testing requirements destroyed, for example, children's toys except from large scale sellers who could afford the cost of compliance (see https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Education/Toy-Safety-Business-Guidance-and-Small-Entity-Compliance-Guide https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Educat...). You will find basically no small manufacturers of childrens toys anymore. Different cause, but likely same effect. I'm sure it made things safer in some sense, but yeah.

josho 7y ago
> They should require amazon to randomly sample. If governments cared about safety they would do the sampling and fine companies a meaningful percent of profit. That would fix these problems once and for all. Unfortunately we’ve elected governments that cut regulations which encourages the opposite behavior from companies.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  >Unfortunately we’ve elected governments that cut regulation It's really not that simple. The regulations here benefit Amazon. This is why Facebook is asking to be regulated. It's called regulatory capture. It's a product of corporatism or cronyism. Established corporations lobby for regulations that shut out small business and protect their profits.
  - daveFNbuck 7y ago
    While I care a lot about having a competitive marketplace, it's much more important to me that I and my family aren't poisoned. Are you saying that smaller companies can't compete with Amazon if everyone has to check that they're not poisoning us?

docker_up 7y ago

FFS now we have to worry about this too? I guess I'm naive but I trusted Amazon but it makes sense that they just sold whatever they wanted without testing. They should have dedicated 10X the $700,000 and have been fined, my God I'm upset right now.

zelpo 7y ago

Just last week I was picking my son up from school when I noticed he had a can of Xylene in his bookbag. I asked him where he got it and he said Aamazon

Symbiote 7y ago
The primary reason I'm aware of for a youth to have xylene is solvent abuse (glue sniffing, essentially). It's illegal to sell it to someone under 18 in the UK.

benatkin 7y ago

Or not. Amazon is just a platform, remember?

weiming 7y ago

We wanted to order Evian or Fiji bottled water from Amazon but were put off by reviews mentioning oddly attached labels, misshapen bottles, wrong tint on bottle caps. So we just stuck with local supermarket water delivery. Fake water? Wondering if anyone has tried ordering these.

Symbiote 7y ago
Why would you want water carried from halfway around the planet anyway? That's an awful waste of resources.

jorblumesea 7y ago

Good, why is being online a pass for selling toxic products? I don't understand the standards we apply. If Target or Walmart sold lead laced school supplies people would flip, regardless of who actually made the product. It is on the distributor to guarantee the product quality and supply chain quality. I've always failed to understand why being online has made them untouchable.

edejong 7y ago
Exactly this. Perhaps the reasoning is that Amazon functions more like a bazaar, offering other companies a storefront. But then I’d expect expression of identity of these storefronts as well.

farshaddx619 7y ago

rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی صورت</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی افتادگی پلک</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی اینستاگرام</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی احسان علیخانی</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی صورت</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی بدن</a> <a href="https://drfniazi.ir/about/" https://drfniazi.ir/about/" rel="follow">جراحی زیبایی واژن</a> <a href="http://www.20to20.biz/product/sample-product/خرید-پودر-جوانه-گندم-200گرمی-گلها/" http://www.20to20.biz/product/sample-product/خرید-پودر-جوانه... rel="follow"> پودر جوانه گندم گلها</a>

dgzl 7y ago

Whenever you say "government should do xyz", you're actually saying "the government should steal money from taxpayers to carelessly attempt to do xyz".

azinman2 7y ago
As opposed to... careful Amazon? Careful maker of these toxic kid supplies?! I don’t get this whole idea that government necessarily means poor quality. In using it to take away money, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There’s plenty that the gov already does well that we trust and depend on. If we had a bigger collective empathic view for others, a stronger notion of the value of civil service, and a closed wage gap between public and private, we could expect and get more from public institutions.
- markjspivey 7y ago
  well technically then it shouldn’t be assumed one way or the other, so your comment also shouldnt imply one way or the other ... right ? the reality most humans “scientifically” should assume is that “governments” or “public institutions” aren’t people ... and that means something ...
ebg13 7y ago
Who the fuck else is going to do it? Clearly not the market or the products wouldn't be there right now. Every time you argue against governments regulating markets, you ignore the fact that regulations get written in blood.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  Is this another instance of "who will build the roads"? https://mises.org/library/safety-and-market-economy https://mises.org/library/safety-and-market-economy https://mises.org/library/what-keeps-us-safe-0 https://mises.org/library/what-keeps-us-safe-0 https://mises.org/library/what-will-keep-our-food-safe https://mises.org/library/what-will-keep-our-food-safe https://mises.org/library/do-food-makers-want-kill-you https://mises.org/library/do-food-makers-want-kill-you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5OYdGevAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5OYdGevAQ Bonus: https://mises.org/wire/government-road-management-there-better-way https://mises.org/wire/government-road-management-there-bett... On top of that, your justification ("who the fuck else is going to do it?") of violence ("steal money from taxpayers") is quite alarming.

jxramos 7y ago

What's the root cause precisely for where all this toxic material originates from? How does it get into a factory in the first place? Is it some kind of sabotage or is this stuff inherently in raw materials that require processing that is omitted? How does one find oneself with a bunch of lead in this day and age without seeking it out?

freeone3000 7y ago
Lead and cadmium are used in paints - lead for white, cadmium for yellow. The west has discontinued them for toxicity reasons, but they're still prevalent in China.
- jxramos 7y ago
  Does that mean they’re deliberately added to paints? How does one produce paint with and without these chemicals?
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    They are added to pigments, that are then mixed into the paints. The company mixing the paints may or may not know those chemicals are in the pigments that they purchase from another supplier.

bertm 7y ago

I worked for a long time as a chemical engineer making cadmium containing quantum dots. We had many discussions inside the company about complying with the EPA's TSCA regulations. https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substances-control-act https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substance... The reason why these regulations exist was because toys and consumer goods would be imported with red paint that contained cadmium. Usually the importer is responsible for complying or at least reporting to the EPA under TSCA.

pjc50 7y ago

Again on the poor Amazon quality and co-mingling - is this a US only problem or is it also present in the EU? Note that we already have a CE marking requirement which is supposed to imply a certain level of safety.

AlexandrB 7y ago

As a retailer, Amazon has become incredibly lazy. Ironically, books is where this shows the most. In my area they now just ship them in padded envelopes, meaning at least 50% of the time the book arrives with dented corners, or a damaged cover.

netwanderer3 7y ago

It's pretty great to witness a policy or law that was applied correctly by a government to prevent further public damages, no matter how big the target corporation is.

rjmunro 7y ago

As a Brit, I find the title of this really hard to parse. I was trying to work out if "toxic school supplies" was some sort of brand of jewelry or something. Why don't American's use an "and" here: > Amazon must remove toxic school supplies and kids’ jewelry from US marketplace To me, that's much clearer.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Majromax 7y ago
> Why don't American's use an "and" here: Doing so is still standard American English. However, headline writing in particular has a tradition of extreme brevity, and this style leaves out conjunctions and adjectives (including articles). As another example of ambiguity, the article title here isn't explicitly clear that Amazon must remove these items from its marketplace. Read literally, "from US marketplace" could imply (somehow) the entire United States retail environment.

flatlandia 7y ago

The simple, one-dimensional world you live in must be lovely.

Roark66 7y ago

This whole situation is the result of countries like China that most of those products are made in lack a real justice system. Anyone who has ever tried to sue a Chinese company in a Chinese court knows it is impossible for a foreigner to win. Ever. No matter the evidence. If China had a just justice system as exists in many other countries developing and developed this problem wouldn't exist. Unfortunately in today's China you can still be sure you will keep your money you made conning people as long as those people are foreigners.

apta 7y ago
And people still protest at the sanctions the US government is imposing on China. If it gets garbage products off the market, I'm all for it.

josefresco 7y ago

If Amazon doesn't get a handle on quality control, and product misrepresentation/swapping scams they will start to be perceived as Ebay/AliExpress/Wish.com where "anything goes". I realize Ebay has controls to protect consumers, but the perception for everyday people is that it's risky, but you might find a deal. I rarely use Ebay anymore, and in fact just purchased some sneakers there after probably 6+ years of not purchasing anything. I crossed my fingers, fully expected to be ripped off and lucked out, the product was exactly as advertised. I would not have purchased them if the discount wasn't so dramatic. This is all anecdotal based on my experience and the exp of my peer group.

djsumdog 7y ago

How exactly does this much lead get into these products? Are they on shared assembly lines with bullet manufacturing?!

swebs 7y ago
China imports garbage and recycles it for raw materials. A lot of that garbage contains circuit boards, which use solder composed of 50% lead.

abeppu 7y ago

I get that kids are especially vulnerable, but shouldn't we also try to not sell stuff which is non-obviously toxic for use by adults also? Why should any consumer have to be afraid that a backpack or book cover has a high amount of lead?

mproud 7y ago

Only $700,000?