4 ms·

Are you suggesting that the number should be higher or lower? As someone who still has functional PC hardware from the 90's, calling 6.5 "a few years" sounds a

Are you suggesting that the number should be higher or lower? As someone who still has functional PC hardware from the 90's, calling 6.5 "a few years" sounds about right...

warent 7y ago
Functioning how?
- djsumdog 7y ago
  People still run Commodore 64s. There are demo scenes, old hardware enthusiasts that squeeze crazy performance out of old hardware, even a guy who use a Raspberry Pi to emulate an NES cartridge and get his unmodified NES to play SNES games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0 Old hardware can often be repaired. If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years, he or she wouldn't shell out the $$ on it, but today people buy $400~$800 cellphones that turn into garbage.
  - Octoth0rpe 7y ago
    > If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years, he or she wouldn't shell out the $$ on it, but today people buy $400~$800 cellphones that turn into garbage. I wouldn't put money on that. A C64's starting price was $600 in 1982 dollars. For $154 in 1982, quite a few people might have been willing.
  - Zancarius 7y ago
    Exactly. Unsurprisingly, there's even a few hacks out there for upgrading old C64s with newer/better components, too, if you want to get another couple decades out of it. There's even new manufacture C64-compatible enthusiast boards being produced [1], although I believe you may have to supply your own SID chip. The latter doesn't count much for this topic, but it illustrates there's some interest. Further, the parts that are likely to break over time are fairly trivial for someone with soldering skills to replace. I know of at least a couple people who preemptively replaced capacitors on old C64s they bought and refurbished. [1] https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/c64-reloaded-mk2.html https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/c64-r...
  - micmil 7y ago
    "If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years..." That was pretty much expected. Hardware upgrades were just as fast and furious as they are now, if not moreso. Backwards compatibility with years-old systems at the consumer level was a byproduct, not a plan.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    When was the last time a Commodore 64 received a vendor-issued software upgrade? Because that's what we're talking about. Not how long will the hardware last, but how long will the manufacturer release software updates.
djsumdog 7y ago
There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use this hardware 10~15 years from now. People use old Apple IIs and C64s from decades ago. The trouble is the locked bootloaders, secure boot and all the binary blob drivers.
- skybrian 7y ago
  I don't know about Apple II's but some C64's died due to bad power supplies. You can still find working ones, but that doesn't mean you can count on any particular device to last. They weren't designed for that any more than today's computers. Chromebooks are designed to preserve data. The hardware is presumed vulnerable to failure.
  - sireat 7y ago
    How are Chromebooks designed to preserve data? They are basically modern version of a dumb/dumbed down network terminal. Chromebook experience is tailored for doing everything in the browser. For fsck's sake you have to print through the "cloud": https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-set-up-google-print-on-your-chromebook https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-set-up-google-prin... You have to trust that Google will preserve your data in its cloud.
    - skybrian 7y ago
      Yes, exactly. There are vulnerabilities to be aware of (primarily, losing control of your account, which would be catastrophic), but at least replacing the hardware is just a shopping trip. This is much better than getting an elderly relative off Windows XP.
      - afandian 7y ago
        Arguably it's much harder to get an elderly relative off Google than XP.
        skybrian 7y ago
kllrnohj 7y ago
I'm just saying support for a few years would typically suggest 2-4 years. 6.5 years is considerably longer than "a few years" would imply. Particularly in the context of the other common computing platform - phones. Is 6.5 a magic perfect number? No, I'd like to see more like 10 years honestly (which matches what Microsoft supports with Windows). But let's at least use the actual numbers and not easily confused vague terms like "few"

Are you suggesting that the number should be higher or lower? As someone who still has functional PC hardware from the 90's, calling 6.5 "a few years" sounds about right...

warent 7y ago

Functioning how?

djsumdog 7y ago
People still run Commodore 64s. There are demo scenes, old hardware enthusiasts that squeeze crazy performance out of old hardware, even a guy who use a Raspberry Pi to emulate an NES cartridge and get his unmodified NES to play SNES games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0 Old hardware can often be repaired. If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years, he or she wouldn't shell out the $$ on it, but today people buy $400~$800 cellphones that turn into garbage.
- Octoth0rpe 7y ago
  > If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years, he or she wouldn't shell out the $$ on it, but today people buy $400~$800 cellphones that turn into garbage. I wouldn't put money on that. A C64's starting price was $600 in 1982 dollars. For $154 in 1982, quite a few people might have been willing.
- Zancarius 7y ago
  Exactly. Unsurprisingly, there's even a few hacks out there for upgrading old C64s with newer/better components, too, if you want to get another couple decades out of it. There's even new manufacture C64-compatible enthusiast boards being produced [1], although I believe you may have to supply your own SID chip. The latter doesn't count much for this topic, but it illustrates there's some interest. Further, the parts that are likely to break over time are fairly trivial for someone with soldering skills to replace. I know of at least a couple people who preemptively replaced capacitors on old C64s they bought and refurbished. [1] https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/c64-reloaded-mk2.html https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/c64-r...
- micmil 7y ago
  "If you told a C64 user back in the day his machine would break in two years..." That was pretty much expected. Hardware upgrades were just as fast and furious as they are now, if not moreso. Backwards compatibility with years-old systems at the consumer level was a byproduct, not a plan.
- freehunter 7y ago
  When was the last time a Commodore 64 received a vendor-issued software upgrade? Because that's what we're talking about. Not how long will the hardware last, but how long will the manufacturer release software updates.

djsumdog 7y ago

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use this hardware 10~15 years from now. People use old Apple IIs and C64s from decades ago. The trouble is the locked bootloaders, secure boot and all the binary blob drivers.

skybrian 7y ago
I don't know about Apple II's but some C64's died due to bad power supplies. You can still find working ones, but that doesn't mean you can count on any particular device to last. They weren't designed for that any more than today's computers. Chromebooks are designed to preserve data. The hardware is presumed vulnerable to failure.
- sireat 7y ago
  How are Chromebooks designed to preserve data? They are basically modern version of a dumb/dumbed down network terminal. Chromebook experience is tailored for doing everything in the browser. For fsck's sake you have to print through the "cloud": https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-set-up-google-print-on-your-chromebook https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-set-up-google-prin... You have to trust that Google will preserve your data in its cloud.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    Yes, exactly. There are vulnerabilities to be aware of (primarily, losing control of your account, which would be catastrophic), but at least replacing the hardware is just a shopping trip. This is much better than getting an elderly relative off Windows XP.
    - afandian 7y ago
      Arguably it's much harder to get an elderly relative off Google than XP.
      - skybrian 7y ago

kllrnohj 7y ago

I'm just saying support for a few years would typically suggest 2-4 years. 6.5 years is considerably longer than "a few years" would imply. Particularly in the context of the other common computing platform - phones. Is 6.5 a magic perfect number? No, I'd like to see more like 10 years honestly (which matches what Microsoft supports with Windows). But let's at least use the actual numbers and not easily confused vague terms like "few"