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VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car
- mtgx 7y agoWhy does it still look like a concept car?
- mfatica 7y agoChrist they couldn't come up with a better image than that?? Is that really what the thing looks like?
- mikestew 7y agoIs that really what the thing looks like? Granted, you had to wade your way to the third paragraph to find it: "VW didn’t announce exact pricing for the higher-range models, or any further specs (hence the light blue and pink camouflage). "
- cesarb 7y agoFor some reason, automakers seem to like to cover their under-development vehicles in garish camouflage. Like this one from 2016: https://electrek.co/2016/07/27/daimler-etruck-first-all-electric-truck-125-miles-range/ https://electrek.co/2016/07/27/daimler-etruck-first-all-elec...
- sk0g 7y agoIsn't the reason obvious? They don't want to give you a good look at the car just yet, and would much rather make your eyes bleed till proper PR shots are done and dusted. Plus it looks cool as, when you spot the most jarring car on the road!
- uxp100 7y agoIt makes it hard to determine details of the body shapes from candid photos.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ed312 7y agoIs there a reason to start this new model name vs simply calling it the 2020 "eGolf"? Is the eGolf basically a hack design and the ID3 a true, ground-up electric design?
- sbradford26 7y agoI would say a lot of it comes from it being a completely different platform. Most likely there will have a line of cars with similar names kind of like BMW's i series that will encompass all the electric vehicles made on the platform.
- mikestew 7y agoFrom the article: "The ID.3 will be the first car built on the Volkswagen Group’s “modular electric toolkit” or “MEB” — a technological platform for EVs that includes the battery pack and motor." That, and this not the only planned vehicle based on this platform, so "eGolf" would be a bit restrictive.
- alkonaut 7y agoThat would be my interpretation. That the traditional Golfs and Tiguans will continue to be delivered with ICE/Hybrid drivetrains but that any pure EV model of an ICE car would always be a compromised design because of how radically different they can be built. So even if they make the ID look like a golf in the body it’s a radically different car, and if they still make the golf they shouldn’t be selling this under the same name. As the article says, the interior will have much more space for example. Calling it eGolf might be confusing, and might be underselling it.
- theluketaylor 7y agoVolkswagen is positioning this as the 3rd era of the company. They started with the beetle, then the golf has been the backbone of the company for 40 years, and now the ID.3 is going to be their core identity.
- zaphirplane 7y agoOr VW is trying to get some association with Tesla model 3 Wow how very uncreative, I would be too embarrassed by such blatant copying model => Id 3 => 3 New name ID3
- mft_ 7y agoInteresting (and great that the bigger manufacturers are starting to come through with their electric offerings) but the price:range ratio doesn't seem great compared to the Tesla model 3? It's hard to be objective with all of the strongly pro- and anti-Tesla nonsense flying around, but I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that once the market matures a little (with eg Audi, VW, Porsche all offering their first-gen EVs) Tesla's offerings will be seen as more revolutionary (or at least, taken less for granted) than they currently are...
- andrewmunsell 7y agoAll you really have to do is look at the current e-Tron and iPace efficiency numbers-- the Model X, which is a heavier vehicle with a smaller battery, goes farther.
- Fins 7y agoAudi and Jaguar are also luxury cars, and X isn't.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sabareesh 7y agoOk how do you define luxury car.
- Fins 7y agoQuality, amenities, service experience, stuff like that. Not making things inherently more dangerous is nice, too.
- sabareesh 7y agoModel 3 is safest production car to the date, as most of the car components are integrated problems can be fixed remotely but still when you have to get to Service Center Tesla is notably improving it. Quality of Tesla drive train, battery, efficiency, supercharger network, software ecosystem, Autopilot (which is best driver assist system available now) .
- gtirloni 7y agoI'm completely clueless about electric engines so I was wondering if, besides range, there are other attributes one should look for in an electric car like HP and that kind of stuff? In other words, are all electric motors so similar that range is the only differentiator?
- dexen 7y agoGood question, and the answer is a resounding "consider more attributes". You should take into consideration the (sustained) top speed, and acceleration (for electrics, that tends to range from great to decent for 0...60, but fall off rather quickly beyond that). Those two are limited by on-board power electronics, by battery & engine cooling capacity (which is the main limiting factor in all electrics I've seen so far), and by the motor power rating. Unlike the typical ICEs, for a short while you can over-load electric motors by quite a bit beyond the continuous rated power - say, for quick & safe over-taking - but the sustained top speed of electric vehicles isn't all that great. The other important factors are: how quickly you can re-charge the vehicle, and how long will the battery pack last (or conversely, how quickly will it degrade), including the manufaturer's warranty, if any. As the electric motors are also used for regenerative braking, the efficiency of energy recovery is a moderately important consideration, especially for start-stop city style traffic. Sadly I haven't yet seen that information published for any car. Charging plug compatibility and charging station availability - for fastest charging you want to be able to use the car's native standard. Lastly, as with any car, safety ratings (battery pack protection is a big item here) and towing capacity.
- thinkmassive 7y agoThe amount and rate of energy that can be delivered from the battery to the wheels probably depends more on the power electronics than the motor. Obviously the motor will overheat at some point, but I would bet the power converters and interconnects would fail much earlier except on very high performance models.
- Shivetya 7y agoRange Battery Cooling technology, steer clear of air cooled Charging rates Weight Cd From my view weight is the big limiting factor in EV efficiency at lower speeds and Cd becomes more important as you increase your speed to highway numbers and higher. Engines are important as the company Munro pointed out during their tear downs. They stated that Tesla had by far the most impressive EV motor they have seen based around how they implemented the magnets and their inverter work finally coupled to a battery solution that proved naysayers wrong. That out of the way, I would not fret over motor differences. It all comes down to, if it passes the initial three features I listed about then concern yourself with, do you like how it looks, how it drives, and does it fit in your lifestyle. In no shape or form think you will save money parting with your current vehicle for a new one however if you already were decided to change cars and EV may fit your lifestyle. There is a good possibility many EVs will be rear drive which will greatly improve driving dynamics, the ease of packaging opens up many options
- jillesvangurp 7y agoI've seen a few e-golf's charging on the streets in the past few weeks in Berlin. I assume these are pre-production models. Looks like a normal Golf aside from the charging port. From my understanding, this is a big step for VW. However, short term, they will likely have range and production capacity issues, just like Tesla did not exactly hit the ground running. I would not be surprised if this is merely a stop gap solution until they get cheaper/better models out. Short term, Tesla could really make VW hurt by ramping up production and dropping price and competing with both their ICE and non ICE offerings.
- allset_ 7y agoe-Golf is not the ID.3. The e-Golf is available for purchase in multiple markets and has a max range of 125mi.
- shereadsthenews 7y agoAnd it has been in production for years. I think they sold only 1400 of them in 2018.
- batbomb 7y agoIf they only sold 1400 of them, then more than 10% of them must drive on the 280 every day.
- greglindahl 7y agoIt's a "compliance car" intended to meet California EV sales minimums. So yes, you see more of them on 280 than you might expect from the total US sales.
- izacus 7y agoCleanTechnica reports that VW sold 10.000 eGolfs in EU in 2018 Q1 + Q2, so that claim of "1400" sounds very very wrong. According to Wiki they sold 30k vehicles at minimum before 2018. Nowhere near Tesla 3 numbers, but claiming that it only sold 1400 vehicles is just wrong.
- tomphoolery 7y agoAre they really naming it after the MP3 tag format?
- mises 7y ago[
- _ph_ 7y agoRecharging with fast chargers, e.g. superchargers, should take between 30-40 minutes. And ranges over 300 miles are available too, so a lot of use cases are already covered, and things are getting better still. So the reasonable audience for electric cars is already much larger than the current market share.
- rootusrootus 7y agoIt seems like where we are right now with the Model 3 LR is "fill-ups" occur about twice as often and take perhaps 45 minutes. Doable for sure, but it's still at the point where you really benefit from adjusting your schedule to mitigate the timing. E.g. try to plan a meal stop, etc. But that's just for road tripping. For an everyday car, nearly everyone can use a 200+ mile EV without ever charging anywhere but home. Assuming they can charge at home. If you have to use a supercharger for everything, you could still do it with the LR but it would take more coordination and commitment.
- jcfrei 7y agoWith the newer 350kW charging stations you can charge up to 80% in about 15 minutes (ie. for a Model S battery). So not much more than filling up with gas. Granted cars which support this will be available at the earliest next year.
- tzs 7y agoI think you are underestimating just how much energy is in a gallon of gas. In terms of miles per hour of charging or adding gas, gas is still massively faster. Tesla says the new charging stations are 1000 miles per hour. A gasoline car that gets 25 miles/gallon, at a gas station with pumps that go at 10 gallons per minutes, "charges" at 15000 miles per hour. (10 gallons per minute is the maximum allowed in the US due to EPA rules). A lot of real world pumps don't achieve that maximum, but usually achieve at least at least 1/3 of that, which would be 5000 miles per hour, still 5 times faster than the upcoming faster Tesla charging option. One advantage for the EV, though, is that it might be safer to step away from the vehicle while charging? When filling up at a gas station I want to stay with the car because a gas spill can be dangerous. That means any trips to the station's convenience store or bathroom cannot be overlapped with fueling. I'm guessing that there isn't much that can go dangerously wrong if you step away from a charging EV, and so you can overlap your convenience store and bathroom visits with the charging time. That might be enough to make the total stop time comparable or less for the EV in many cases, even though the actual charging is 5 to 15 times slower on the EV.
- kvakvs 7y agoWhat game industry and preorders have taught us — never do any preorders until the real thing is out and first reviews start coming in.
- alkonaut 7y agoThere it’s a no brainer. If the game turns out to be great, the extra time required for them to produce another copy for you is zero. A car you can at least get a bit sooner by taking the gamble of preordering.
- ilikehurdles 7y agoIf you pre-order a bad game, you're maybe out $60 if your store doesn't let you refund the product. If you pre-order a bad car, the out of pocket cost is many times higher than that.
- milkytron 7y agoVery true, and the first generation of anything with mechanical components generally faces more issues compared to later generations and revisions. Getting a first generation car seems like a bad idea.
- mikestew 7y agoThe only regret with pre-ordering a Nissan Leaf before release was that the company Nissan hired to run the pre-orders fucked it up. People who ordered up to six months after we did got their cars months before we did. But when we were finally given a hard date, it showed up on that date, and we've been happy with it since. The only reason I don't jump in line for the ID is because my wife and I are really hoping they build that concept van to replace the '81 VW Westfalia we've got now. They announce that for pre-order, and it's "shut and take my money" time.
- Tcepsa 7y agoIf this[0] is what you're talking about, my wife and I also really want it to be a thing! (EDIT: If it's not, would you mind posting a link?) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._Buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_I.D._Buzz
- bdamm 7y agoAfter the terrible treatment I received as a Volkswagen TDI customer, I will never buy another VW. Period. They fraudulently sold me a car, then managed to finangle their way out of any financial restitution by putting up not only extensive hurdles for customers who wanted to opt for restitution instead of return, they then penalized customers who experienced delays due to their internal system faults by simply rejecting applications for restitution that were even a little bit out of spec. Never. Again.
- ilamont 7y agoCould you give more details? Was this related to the emissions scandal?
- thedaemon 7y agoYes. They didn't want to return their car and VW wanted everyone to return their car. So if you waited too long to return it.. you didn't get any money back. So this customer is butt hurt over getting better gas mileage and not getting a check. Entitlement.
- urda 7y agoBuying a product when told it has X features and specifications then receiving said product with Y features and specifications and then becoming upset over it as a consumer isn't "entitlement".
- jaytaylor 7y agoBased on th emissions scandal, I'm unlikely to ever consider a VW vehicle, period. Even though most of the auto industry is also full of dirty money grubbing scum. Not sure what the best move is, until giving it more thought I'm avoiding purchasing another vehicle.
- blattimwind 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device#Timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device#Timeline Good luck finding a car manufacturer that can deliver and isn't on that list.
- ody4242 7y agoMercedes
- blattimwind 7y agohttps://www.bbc.com/news/business-44444361 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44444361
- rcMgD2BwE72F 7y agoThat was in 2018, for 700+K vehicles (Mercedes C-Class, Vito and GLC) . They were caught again this April, with the same defeat device hidden in the GLK models. >The country's vehicle regulator has begun a formal investigation after discovering a new device in the company's Mercedes-Benz model GLK 220 CDI, the Bild am Sonntag newspaper reported. https://www.dw.com/en/daimler-new-emissions-cheating-software-discovered-report/a-48320995 https://www.dw.com/en/daimler-new-emissions-cheating-softwar... How criminal…
- ody4242 7y agoThank you, I was not aware of this, seems like Mercedes was gaming the system as well.
- mikeash 7y ago
- electriclove 7y agoThis is great news and now we need them to deliver (and not delay/back out). I hope they sell a ton. We really need an entrenched player to fully commit to selling EVs. If VW goes all-in, everyone else will have to follow suit. Tesla needs to keep the pressure on.
- chaostheory 7y ago> We really need an entrenched player to fully commit to selling EVs. I don't feel that this is a problem because of California laws regarding EVs, forcing every manufacturer to sell more EVs every year.
- modzu 7y agowell those mandates aren't doing much: https://i2i.org/california-ev-mandates-fail/ https://i2i.org/california-ev-mandates-fail/ i agree the comptetion between established players is required and hopefully leads to solutions to the main problem keeping many people in ICE over EV: range
- chaostheory 7y agoThat's a bit disingenuous. Without those mandates there would be a lot less auto manufacturers with EV models. CA has jump started the EV industry with those mandates. Could there be more EV owners? Sure, but this is still a huge improvement.
- modzu 7y agoare you claiming Volkswagen is in the ev game because of california?
- gsnedders 7y agoAlso the EU mandate to have a fleet average of 95g of CO2/km by 2021 (or, alternatively, large fines). We're seeing all the European manufacturers, including those that don't sell much/at all in the US and therefore CA, doubling down on EVs because they're an easy way to have a big affect on the average.
- phjordon 7y agoI hope this platform succeeds. I've been following the planned microbus refresh eagerly, and it supposedly will be built on the same.
- localhoat 7y agoAs a German - this is really embarrassing. Old managers, old technology, old dealer infrastructure - painted in freaking childish colors. Really guys? That’s the best we can do...?
- blattimwind 7y agoerlking
- B1FF_PSUVM 7y ago> As a German - this is really embarrassing. What's really embarrassing is that German authorities and engineering bodies did not nail to the wall the VW execs that pushed the 'Dieselgate' fraud. The reputation of German engineering was worth billions - those crooks took some millions to the bank uncontested, and now "cheats and liars" is the word. Good going.
- skgoa 7y ago> What's really embarrassing is that German authorities and engineering bodies did not nail to the wall the VW execs that pushed the 'Dieselgate' fraud. They literally investigated and brought criminal charges. Those people are likely to get punished to the full extend of the law, which in a lot of those cases will mean prison time. What more do you want? Death penalty without a court case?
- kaicianflone 7y agoI don't know how we're trusting a company that lied about emissions to create the next generation of electric cars. After the TDI and TSI scandals, I know many people who hope this brand does not survive. I will never buy a VW, Porsche, or Audi if my life depended on it.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 7y agoWhat brand do you recommend then, one that does not deceive or lie about their cars' emissions?
- fri_sch 7y agoMaybe sonomotors.com? At least they seem a lot more trustworthy.
- kaicianflone 7y agoThe TSI scandal is not over emissions. They put bad parts in cars and the engines were failing before or near 100,000 miles.
- anticensor 7y agoTime to nationalise by the Council of European Union and rename it into Bundeswagen, because it is no more an automobile for folks.
- edent 7y ago> buyers will get up to 2,000kWh of charging for free during the first year. That's about £250 worth of electricity - if you charge solely at home. From fast chargers, that's about £750 - £1,000. Not a bad incentive if you do lots of long journeys and need to charge at a motorway service station. But perhaps not as generous as it sounds for more typical use.
- officeplant 7y agoSeeing as how that would ring up to around $160 here it makes me wonder how much cost different going EV would be for me personally. Unfortunately fuel is also cheap here at $2.28/gal on average the last month or two and I average around 37 to 46mpg in a non-hybrid turbo car.
- mikestew 7y agoAt $0.10/kWh, my napkin says EV is still around half the cost of gasoline per mile.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Tepix 7y agoI like that electric cars are starting to have smaller hoods. With the battery located at the bottom of the car and the electric motors at or in the wheels, there is no need for a long hood. Just switching to electric will not solve our mobility problems. Cars need to get smaller and lighter and we need fewer of them, not more. I'm looking forward to what's on the horizon in the european L7e category (up to 450kg w/out battery), for example the Microlino. DLR is also doing some interesting research in this area with their NGC Safe Light Regional Vehicle (SLRV). They recently did some crash tests with promising results: https://www.dlr.de/dlr/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10122/333_read-29340/#/gallery/31720 https://www.dlr.de/dlr/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10122/333_r...
- tibbydudeza 7y agoWay too expensive for mass market appeal. The basic Golf costs about 17,000 while the ID.3 starts at 30,000 Euro's.
- pxtail 7y agoMaybe details are not visible but overall body shape can be figured out and... unless it's full placeholder then for me it's completely disappointing. I'm aware that design was decided, created, analyzed and discussed by teams of highly competent people but for some reason it's against my "common sense". Tesla and this ID.3 are in similar price range [1] and Tesla just looks way better, customers who are buying EV are not traditionalists and I'm pretty sure that modern look is something as important as modern vehicle features. ID.3 aesthetics are just like old boring ICE cars (same thing can be said about audi etron) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19870034