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Liquid Death sells water
- lm28469 7y ago> he had raised an additional $1.6 million for his canned-water startup It's always blowing my mind that smart/rich people invest time/energy/money in such useless ventures. On one hand everyone knows we're fucking the planet big time with mindless production/consumption, on the other hand you can spend $21.99 on 6L of water, in alu cans ... sweet sweet ""progress"" I guess.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago"It's always blowing my mind that smart/rich people invest time/energy/money in such useless ventures" Consider that they are trying to make money, and from that premise, they are not 'useless ventures'. All food products are commodities: even cola, energy drinks. Coca Cola, RedBull are by far and away brands more than they are 'good products'. Evian water sells for 30% more than unbranded water, that's the power of brand. From a certain perspective, of course it's useless, because it's just branded water obviously, it's in a way offensive to our sensibilities ... but it's smart. The brand is pretty good. It's a little risky but it almost makes sense. In restaurants, they charge you more for branded water, and they make you feel like a dolt for drinking 'tap water'. They make a lot of money selling it. This is the 'bar' equivalent: you can drink 'tap water' like a broke school kid or have a can of 'liquid death' while your bros drink up. Then you don't look like 'sissy' (or choose your own term if that offends the sensibilities). Obviously it's ridiculous, but that's what consumerism is. I saw this in the news yesterday and immediately flagged it to my marketing friends. It's not a stupid idea.
- lenticular 7y agoIt's not that you can't make money off it, it's that this sort of mindless unnecessary consumption has severe social and environmental consequences.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoIn terms of making money from empty marketing, come what may, it probably isn't a stupid idea. In a world that's creaking under extreme pressure from climate, species and forest loss, and so on, it's an utterly reckless and stupid idea. That we have to learn to walk away from. Quite happy to be the uncool kid (a stretch at my age, but hey) drinking tap water, ta. :)
- tarr11 7y agoCurious if you’d give up your tea for ecological reasons? (Making some assumptions from your username ;) https://oxfordre.com/environmentalscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199389414.001.0001/acrefore-9780199389414-e-373 https://oxfordre.com/environmentalscience/view/10.1093/acref...
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoOn the basis of a very fast skim and the conclusion, their grounds appear to apply to 99% of agriculture. I'd have to give up eating. "However, the tea industry has a high impact on the environment. While being monoculture, it is hub a particular type of fauna, it is ecologically friendly, that is, not harmful to the environment, absorbs greenhouse gases, and supports tea-tourism. However, it also raises certain concerns, including the huge use of pesticides and irrational use of chemical fertilizers." No idea how it compares to coffee, coke, canned water or anything really, but the conclusion implies it may be one of the least-worst options. If it turns out tea was worse than other beverage options, yes I would. We've already made significant changes, and expect to make more - from choice and mandated before my time here is done. :)
- lenticular 7y agoGiving up tea presumably would mean giving up something the poster presumably finds pleasurable. Drinking tap water instead of bottled has no such trade off. There's a big difference between asking people to live like monks and asking them to not consume things that give them little to no value.
- Retra 7y agoSo you're saying if I can make money doing something, then it is both ethical and smart?
- matz1 7y agoIf that is your ethics then yes.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Retra 7y agoWhat a useless sentiment that is.
- matz1 7y agoMaybe, but that is the reality.
- Retra 7y agoThe reality is that truths without relevance are no better than fantasies.
- matz1 7y agoHow is that not relevant? If making money is part of my ethics, which is for many people (including me) are, then the answer to your original question, is yes it is ethical.
- Retra 7y agoI'm not asking if morality is subjective, I'm asking how to reconcile a difference between two moralities. Pointing out that people think differently on such matters is not only obvious, it is something I had to assume before even asking the question. What were you hoping to achieve with your comment?
- bluGill 7y agoWhile branded water does sell for more, if you look closely you discover that bottled water buyers are not nearly as brand loyal as other drink buyers are (most cola drinkers have tried both Coke and Pepsi and can tell the difference, most water buyers have likewise tried off brands and been unable to tell the difference). Store brand water sells very well in general.
- 0xDEFC0DE 7y agoIs it bad that I actually like this core idea because of plastics pollution?
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoAluminum cans have a plastic liner.
- 0xDEFC0DE 7y agoIs that better or worse than disposable bottles?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mattbessey 7y agoThe solution to the bottled water epidemic is (to return to) reusing water bottles, not to manufacture yet more millions out of a different material. Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order
- noir_lord 7y agoI bought four cheap water bottles from supermarket, one for work, one for home office, one for bedroom and a spare. Drinking bottled water in the UK is insane, we have some of the best water in the world and people spend a pound on something they could get out the tap basically free.
- Fradow 7y agoHow about ensuring tap water is actually drinkable and stop water bottles altogether? It still boggles my mind that people continue buying water bottles where tap water is totally ok (and in some case, better than bottled water).
- SECProto 7y agoDid you know that aluminum cans have a plastic liner? Plastic bottles are made from a plastic that can be recycled into carpets and other synthetic materials fairly well. Plastic pollution comes largely from lower grades of plastic (think plastic bags, etc) that break apart into smaller pieces that filter feeders eat
- NoInputSignal 7y agoFrom an investment point of view, smart/rich people that invest in start ups know a large percentage of them fail [1]. The idea is to invest smaller amounts in a bunch of crazy ideas in hopes that one of them--for reasons you may not fully understand--succeeds and covers the losses of the others. Anecdotally: you could argue that a car that drives itself is outlandish, or rentable electric scooters is stupid, or X other idea is ridiculous, but those smart/rich investors are still making money at the end of the day. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpatel/2015/01/16/90-of-startups-will-fail-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/#1bb45f566679 https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpatel/2015/01/16/90-of-star...
- lm28469 7y agoSure, if you judge things depending on how much money you can get in the least amount of time it makes sense. The question is: when do we stop being ok with subsidising instant profit by selling our future well being ? Would you trade one of your lung for a 5$ bill ? No, well that's what we're doing right now.
- NoInputSignal 7y agoPretentious water is not a hill I am willing to die on. I was just pointing out that start ups are not backed because of their utility.
- daemin 7y agoTo figure back in High School I did a business project for selling "Dehydrated Water". I guess I was about 20 years too early...
- sonnyblarney 7y agoThey are not selling water. They are selling an image and an aspiration: tap water is for boring, conventional, cheap people. 'Liquid Death' is for progressive bros to drink at the bar while their buddies drink up. 'Skate or die + Organic'. (Obviously this is ridiculous, rationally, but this is how consumers (including us) act). Bars would much rather sell you branded water than give you free tap water, just as restaurants do.
- simonh 7y agoOne of my favourite Mike Reid radio adverts - Hones John's instant Ice. Just add water, and put it in the freezer.
- Kaotique 7y agoWhy is this weird? You can buy water in glass bottles, plastic bottles and paper containers around the world. Why not in a can with a cool logo/slogan?
- antihero 7y agoBecause what sort of weird thing do you have to have going on in your brain that you want your water to be edgy / cringey? Plus you can't re-seal cans.
- simonh 7y agoOn the other hand if they're going to drink a can of something, it might as well be plain water. Much healthier and more environmentally friendly than pretty much anything else you could put in it.
- antihero 7y agoI mean beer is slowly killing us so is technically pretty good for the environment.
- standardUser 7y agoOne example of a "weird thing" is to be a recovering alcoholic who wants to occasionally have a more ornate or interesting non-alcoholic beverage in their hand in social settings.
- peterwwillis 7y agoIf you gave me a choice between a plastic Fiji bottle and a metal can with a badass skull on it, I'm choosing the badass skull. That "weird thing in your brain" is a lifestyle choice, and we make them all the time. How weird is it that someone might choose a translucent purple pen over a plain white pen? It makes no difference really, but some people prefer one over the other.
- lykr0n 7y agoYou have stuff like Voss which is water in a fancy bottle. So why not this?
- ASalazarMX 7y agoBecause water is cheap, easily purified and abundant. Only gullible people (affluent or misguided) consume it as a luxury good.
- reidjs 7y agoIt’s more like status signaling in my experience. There is a social reason to do it
- sonnyblarney 7y agoYou consume branded aspirational products essentially every day. Almost all consumer products have integrated aspirational messaging that induces you (and I mean you, me, everyone else) to pay significantly more then we would otherwise. Most people's clothing, for example, goes far beyond cost/utility/comfort. The 'gullible' people are those who think they are not susceptible to this, and don't act on these impulses. Almost thinks they are not susceptible to marketing, and almost everyone actually is.
- ASalazarMX 7y agoWho's claiming marketing immunity? There's status signaling, and there's gullibility. Wearing quality shoes that also look nice is worth paying extra, but paying extra for the packaging of water indistinguishable from that of a cheap filter is plain gullibility. Buying designer tap water might be status signaling, but it's just because the other gullible people consider it a status signal.
- kevinventullo 7y agoReminds me of http://www.mtv.com/news/1887953/monster-tour-water/ http://www.mtv.com/news/1887953/monster-tour-water/, which X-games athletes use as well.
- peterwwillis 7y agoProps to the author for trying to generate clicks through false controversy, but the attempt falls flat. They keep mentioning how this product is a form of toxic masculinity or part of a boys' club, even comparing it to other products clearly marketed to men. But this product is only marketed to straight-edge punk or metal people, which is not in any way exclusively male. I'm kind of embarrassed for the author, as what they're implying (only men can be straight-edge or punk) is so obviously sexist. I actually know more women than men that are into skulls and death imagery, and more women who don't drink or smoke.
- theandrewbailey 7y ago100% agreed. The author doesn't even provide direct examples of this product's ads or marketing materials.
- theandrewbailey 7y agoThe product comes off as a little silly to me and it's probably not the best idea, but there's no need for the writer to get all SJW about it.
- sabertoothed 7y ago"no need to get all SJW about it" I cannot express how much I detest this phrase or the similarly vile German equivalent 'Gutmensch'. Turning the good impetus or empathy into something negative is just evil. One should really rethink the use of the term. Not to say the 'toxic masculinity' is not a terrible term as well since it can easily be misunderstood as (any) masculinity being toxic -- not just exaggerated, testosterone-overcharged masculinity.
- akuchling 7y agoIt can easily be "misunderstood" by people arguing in bad faith, but that's true of any term; "toxic masculinity" remains a useful phrase for referring to a particular set of beliefs and behaviours.
- falcolas 7y agoAs is "Social Justice Warrior". Both terms were created to identify certain behaviors and categorize them in a negative light. You can't praise one while condemning the other.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago"Turning the good impetus or empathy into something negative is just evil. One should really rethink the use of the term." Consider that people commonly wag their fingers and take the moral high ground from their armchairs because it's easy, or they want click bait. It's very common. This article is the perfect example: rejecting a water brand aimed at the punk style because it's 'toxically masculine' is utterly ridiculous. And FYI 'toxic masculinity' is a bigoted, cis-phobic and misandrist concept to begin with - let alone discussing serious issues such as sexual assault, we're talking about water for gosh sakes. The world is full of people building an identity of being 'holier than though' it's why actors/actresses build a public image and brand often by supporting some specific cause that they ostensibly 'care' about. 'Saying you care' about something is basically meaningless, what matters are those who 'do something' about it. Famous leaders, business leaders, politicians - all are caught in a game of having to appear moral, which is why the end up usually talking far beyond their material, real claims to making the world a better place. Everyone wins a few social points by seeming moral, or righteous, and it's just too easy to find something arbitrary somewhere and condemn it for some arbitrary reason. We're talking about water. Edit: if we're going to take a legit run at this brand it could be with regards to packaging, or the blatantly ridiculous nature of branding H20 (... even thought it will probably work!)
- kevin_b_er 7y agoNo worse than Voss, Fiji, or Mountain Valley Spring. Looks like they're going to sell it for similar prices, too. Article title is a bit inflammatory, but there's massively overpriced spring water out there already.
- modzu 7y agoUgh. "Private browsing detected. In order to continue browsing The Gazette in private mode please login". > Inspect element: delete
- tanilama 7y agoToo cool? I sense some judgement here. As someone who had never enjoyed alcohol and technically a tech bro, my rejection to alcohol is nothing about the image it presents, just I didn't like the drink. Is this weird？
- umvi 7y agoThere is sometimes judgment/pressure if you don't drink unfortunately, but it seems to be getting more rare. Most people are respectful though (same goes for a lot of my H1B buddies who don't eat meat).
- siidooloo 7y agoHave you seen a picture of the product? The judgement has nothing to do with people being teetotal. The product is marketed at people who want to look like their drinking Some kind of ‘radical’ beer.
- maxerickson 7y agoLots of energy drinks come in similar cans, it isn't just the beers.
- siidooloo 7y agoBut this isn’t beer. It’s water marketed as beer. That’s the hook. Anyway, the posters point was that they thought the tite was looking down on non-drinkers. I think they were ust looking down on this product.
- maxerickson 7y agoRight, my point is that it is probably being marketed alongside Monster and the like more that it is being marketed alongside beer.
- Benjamin_Dobell 7y agoI don't drink and find the title provocative - don't have any plans to go write an article complaining about it though. Considering it's an article complaining about "toxic masculinity" (phrase used in the article), that sure seems like one incredibly toxic title.
- NickBusey 7y agoOnce I got past the black screen that forces me to disable my ad block, I then get presented with a survey I have to take in order to be able to read the article. No thanks.
- pzmarzly 7y agoYou may find BehindTheOverlay extension useful. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/behindtheoverlay/ljipkdpcjbmhkdjjmbbaggebcednbbme https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/behindtheoverlay/l... / https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/behind_the_overlay/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/behind_the_ov...
- Grue3 7y agoI like how the author is mad about water while canned beer which is produced consumed in much larger quantities is totally fine. Getting beer-drinkers to switch to water via marketing would be a huge win and it's an effort that should be applauded.
- Simulacra 7y agoAlmost like boxed water.