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Interesting to call Elon Musk charlatan considering he put an actual electric car on the road that is on its way to sell 400k units in a year and kicking other

by dmode 7y ago

Interesting to call Elon Musk charlatan considering he put an actual electric car on the road that is on its way to sell 400k units in a year and kicking other non charlatan like BMW and GMs ass

imtringued 7y ago
This discussion is about Autopilot/FSD not the car itself. Tesla certainly didn't sell 400k cars with the FSD option.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  They sold 400k cars with hardware they believe is sufficient for full self driving (perhaps with limited upgrades). Tesla is the only one actually attempting to empower individuals with FSD tech. Everyone else has given up and/or wants to monopolize it for private fleets. Everyone claims to be shooting for the same FSD capability. Different strategies is, of course, wrongly conflated with "fraud." I tend to think Tesla is behind Waymo. It's hard to say beyond that. But for actual mass deployment of serious hardware, no one is ahead of Tesla.
  - qroshan 7y ago
    Charlatan in 2016: Teslas built right now has all the hardware required for FSD Charlatan in 2019: The previous version by nVidia was such garbage (processing 1.5 fps, really?). Teslas built right now has all the hardware required for FSD. Charlatan, a few minutes later: We are working on the next version of FSD hardware (that'd most definitely render 2019 obsolete) There is Musk, the sometimes engineer, then there is Musk, the charlatan. An Engineer would never claim 'the latest hardware will be the greatest ever'
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      What I find interesting is that Nvidia claimed on their website that their hardware could do self driving. That’s the same hardware that Tesla has used and has to upgrade to the new Neural Net chip. Do you think Nvidia is going to pay for the hardware upgrade Teslas need? Tesla is doing so. They believe the current version of the NN is good enough for FSD, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. What I find so fascinating about this discussion is how Tesla is necessarily the most transparent player yet everyone else (with the same stated FSD goals) is given a pass due to secrecy. I suppose that means secrecy works.
      - warp_factor 7y ago
        What do you mean Tesla is the most transparent player? They absolutely never showed anything else than slides and a 2 minute video. That's probably the least transparent from all the big players. You can go to Mountain View and see cars running right now. Or go to Phoenix and get into a Waymo car. Again you got ahead of yourself with the Tesla hype.
      - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
        Nvidia probably wrote this b/c Tesla is using it. And Tesla is claiming the hardware is (was) enough b/c Nvidia wrote it.
    - ec109685 7y ago
      Learning a problem is harder 3 years later isn’t unusual in software world. All the autonomous car companies said this is harder. Waymo has no driverless cars anywhere and there are quotes saying it would be ready. Also, Elon always promised hardware upgrade if needed.
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        "Learning a problem is harder" We're talking about the holy grail of AI in the automotive industry, not a SaaS side project. This isn't assigning the Summer Vision Project in 1966. Everyone knew that this was going to be a monumental problem, and the only person in the room who was claiming they already had all the tools to solve the problem (a problem that no one else is even willing to say they fully understood how to approach yet) is also the guy with a record for lying through his teeth so much there's a term for it. I'm excited to see real attempts at FSD. Not from the company that gets most of it's hype from AP1, which used the same sensor suit GM was putting in cars years ago for off-label applications so they could go around waving "autopilot", which resulted in easily preventable deaths.
    - dmode 7y ago
      iPhone in 2008 had all the hardware to run an iPhone. iPhone in 2019 also has all the hardware to run an iPhone. You don't want to Tesla to continually improve their hardware ?
  - badpun 7y ago
    > Tesla is the only one actually attempting to empower individuals with FSD tech. Everyone else has given up and/or wants to monopolize it for private fleets. There's a guy in a village next to me that is "attempting to empower individuals" with energy medicine (healing people with the touch of his hands). Everyone else, including medicine researchers, has given up on this.
- dmode 7y ago
  All Model 3 is equipped with hardware to support FSD
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Plenty of people pre-ordered No Man's Sky - then were upset when they received less than what they thought they'd been promised. That's the risk when you pay upfront for a product that doesn't exist. Maybe people who've paid for the Tesla FSD package will receive what I imagine when I hear "full self driving". Or maybe, like No Man's Sky backers, they'll get something they're less happy with.
  - shawabawa3 7y ago
    How can people believe this? Tesla claim they have all the hardware for FSD, but FSD is still science fiction. It literally doesn't exist. Waymo is closest but they use Lidar, which Tesla's aren't equipped with. Maybe Tesla will work it out and make a great self driving car on cheap hardware. I'll believe it when I see it
    - PunchTornado 7y ago
      Waymo is closer to what? driving on some simple californian roads?
      - danso 7y ago
        Waymo is already available to the public in Arizona: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-waymo-selfdriving-focus/waymo-unveils-self-driving-taxi-service-in-arizona-for-paying-customers-idUSKBN1O41M2 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-waymo-selfdriving-focus/w... Tesla’s most recent FSD video took place around Palo Alto. The same area where its 2016 video was filmed.
solidasparagus 7y ago
Musk has his head in the clouds. While this is good for his long-term plans to do the impossible, it means you can never believe him on progress or dates until you can touch the product.

by dmode 7y ago

Interesting to call Elon Musk charlatan considering he put an actual electric car on the road that is on its way to sell 400k units in a year and kicking other non charlatan like BMW and GMs ass

imtringued 7y ago

This discussion is about Autopilot/FSD not the car itself. Tesla certainly didn't sell 400k cars with the FSD option.

Robotbeat 7y ago
They sold 400k cars with hardware they believe is sufficient for full self driving (perhaps with limited upgrades). Tesla is the only one actually attempting to empower individuals with FSD tech. Everyone else has given up and/or wants to monopolize it for private fleets. Everyone claims to be shooting for the same FSD capability. Different strategies is, of course, wrongly conflated with "fraud." I tend to think Tesla is behind Waymo. It's hard to say beyond that. But for actual mass deployment of serious hardware, no one is ahead of Tesla.
- qroshan 7y ago
  Charlatan in 2016: Teslas built right now has all the hardware required for FSD Charlatan in 2019: The previous version by nVidia was such garbage (processing 1.5 fps, really?). Teslas built right now has all the hardware required for FSD. Charlatan, a few minutes later: We are working on the next version of FSD hardware (that'd most definitely render 2019 obsolete) There is Musk, the sometimes engineer, then there is Musk, the charlatan. An Engineer would never claim 'the latest hardware will be the greatest ever'
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    What I find interesting is that Nvidia claimed on their website that their hardware could do self driving. That’s the same hardware that Tesla has used and has to upgrade to the new Neural Net chip. Do you think Nvidia is going to pay for the hardware upgrade Teslas need? Tesla is doing so. They believe the current version of the NN is good enough for FSD, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. What I find so fascinating about this discussion is how Tesla is necessarily the most transparent player yet everyone else (with the same stated FSD goals) is given a pass due to secrecy. I suppose that means secrecy works.
    - warp_factor 7y ago
      What do you mean Tesla is the most transparent player? They absolutely never showed anything else than slides and a 2 minute video. That's probably the least transparent from all the big players. You can go to Mountain View and see cars running right now. Or go to Phoenix and get into a Waymo car. Again you got ahead of yourself with the Tesla hype.
    - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
      Nvidia probably wrote this b/c Tesla is using it. And Tesla is claiming the hardware is (was) enough b/c Nvidia wrote it.
  - ec109685 7y ago
    Learning a problem is harder 3 years later isn’t unusual in software world. All the autonomous car companies said this is harder. Waymo has no driverless cars anywhere and there are quotes saying it would be ready. Also, Elon always promised hardware upgrade if needed.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      "Learning a problem is harder" We're talking about the holy grail of AI in the automotive industry, not a SaaS side project. This isn't assigning the Summer Vision Project in 1966. Everyone knew that this was going to be a monumental problem, and the only person in the room who was claiming they already had all the tools to solve the problem (a problem that no one else is even willing to say they fully understood how to approach yet) is also the guy with a record for lying through his teeth so much there's a term for it. I'm excited to see real attempts at FSD. Not from the company that gets most of it's hype from AP1, which used the same sensor suit GM was putting in cars years ago for off-label applications so they could go around waving "autopilot", which resulted in easily preventable deaths.
  - dmode 7y ago
    iPhone in 2008 had all the hardware to run an iPhone. iPhone in 2019 also has all the hardware to run an iPhone. You don't want to Tesla to continually improve their hardware ?
- badpun 7y ago
  > Tesla is the only one actually attempting to empower individuals with FSD tech. Everyone else has given up and/or wants to monopolize it for private fleets. There's a guy in a village next to me that is "attempting to empower individuals" with energy medicine (healing people with the touch of his hands). Everyone else, including medicine researchers, has given up on this.
dmode 7y ago
All Model 3 is equipped with hardware to support FSD
- michaelt 7y ago
  Plenty of people pre-ordered No Man's Sky - then were upset when they received less than what they thought they'd been promised. That's the risk when you pay upfront for a product that doesn't exist. Maybe people who've paid for the Tesla FSD package will receive what I imagine when I hear "full self driving". Or maybe, like No Man's Sky backers, they'll get something they're less happy with.
- shawabawa3 7y ago
  How can people believe this? Tesla claim they have all the hardware for FSD, but FSD is still science fiction. It literally doesn't exist. Waymo is closest but they use Lidar, which Tesla's aren't equipped with. Maybe Tesla will work it out and make a great self driving car on cheap hardware. I'll believe it when I see it
  - PunchTornado 7y ago
    Waymo is closer to what? driving on some simple californian roads?
    - danso 7y ago
      Waymo is already available to the public in Arizona: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-waymo-selfdriving-focus/waymo-unveils-self-driving-taxi-service-in-arizona-for-paying-customers-idUSKBN1O41M2 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-waymo-selfdriving-focus/w... Tesla’s most recent FSD video took place around Palo Alto. The same area where its 2016 video was filmed.

solidasparagus 7y ago

Musk has his head in the clouds. While this is good for his long-term plans to do the impossible, it means you can never believe him on progress or dates until you can touch the product.