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How the Apple Store Lost Its Luster

• draw_down 7y ago
  In one part they say the store sucks because you can never find someone to purchase from because there are too many tech support “geniuses”, later they note that a lot of people need repairs. So, you know. Having a lot of tech support people would make sense. I think the problem is pretty simple, the experience of going to an Apple store is a victim of Apple’s success. I can’t think of a store that gets that much traffic that I actually enjoy going to. The best you can do is streamline it, which they actually have done in some ways but not others.
• derefr 7y ago
  I’ve also noticed the “it’s impossible to actually buy anything” problem with Apple Stores, especially in stores that get any appreciable amount of foot traffic. (Where I live there is at least one Apple Store in a mall that hardly anyone visits, and that one is just fine for service.) However—and I’m not saying this as a defense, just as an interesting fact—at one point when I was waiting around trying to get the attention of someone to buy a stupid dongle, a staff member helpfully pointed out to me that I could just buy the thing myself with the Apple Store app on my phone (i.e. point my phone at the barcode on it, pay with card), and then walk out out of the store with the item, having never interacted with a single store worker (except perhaps implicitly with a plainclothes security guard who observed me doing this self-checkout flow and so didn’t tackle me on the way out. I don’t think your purchase is somehow remotely deactivating a magnetic anti-theft tag in the product or anything, so they’ve got to be doing loss-prevention for this flow the old-fashioned way.) And while you can’t complete the entire purchase yourself for big-ticket items (the kind they keep back in the warehouse section and would have to retrieve for you), you can still do the “paying” part in advance of showing up at the store, through the app—or while you’re in the store, through the app—which turns the process of “finding an employee who has time to both guide you through SKU selection and ring you up” into “getting the front-door attendant to notify anyone with a spare moment that one of the devices already in the ‘waiting for pickup’ pile in the back can be grabbed and brought out.” Honestly, this seems like it has somehow secretly become the primary flow that Apple Stores want to do [non-business-customer] purchases through, and yet they don’t mention it anywhere. They should have big signs in the stores telling you to buy things using your phone (and/or by using the store website on any of the demo computers)!
  • itronitron 7y ago
    store pickup is very convenient, although Best Buy and Home Depot have an even better service as you don't have to install an app or use Apple Pay
    • shadowfiend 7y ago
      Confused… https://store.apple.com https://store.apple.com lets you buy anything, pay any way you want, and pick it up at a store, no?
      • derefr 7y ago
        Right; the only unique thing about using the Apple Store app is that it lets you scan UPC codes for small-purchase items when you’re already in the store, allowing you to just pick something up and walk out with it. For large-purchase items, it’s the same whether you use the app or the website. (Although I think that when you show up to a store where you have an item waiting for you, and you have the app running, it does some kind of automatic prompting or notification to staff or something.)
    • theNJR 7y ago
      I really hate their store pick up because you have to find the same random employee to go fetch the item for you. What should be a 69 second in-and-our is at least ten minutes at the store near me.
    • timdorr 7y ago
      Actually, the thing that really makes them superior is that they have a dedicated pick-up area in the store. You know exactly where to go and you can get out of there quickly. With the Apple Store I'm just walking into a big room full of busy people. I have zero idea of who the hell I'm actually supposed to talk to or where to go get the thing I paid for.
    • lowlevel 7y ago
      Yes. Picking up items at an Apple store still subjects you to mall parking hell, walking through the mall, finding Waldo to fetch your item and paying. I'de say pickup at Bestbuy or Home Depot is infinitely better... pickup desk generally at front of store.. ample parking steps away... in and out.
• atonse 7y ago
  My biggest complaint about the Apple Store is the long wait times when your computer breaks. You often have to wait for a few days to even get an appointment. But the award for the most asinine thing about the Apple Store is their insistence on not having a proper area to pay for things. So people just wander around wanting to buy something and not knowing where to pay for it. And they end up wasting a lot more time that way.
  • zitterbewegung 7y ago
    I was able to get an appointment next day at an apple store to fix my keyboard . After I arrived I got it done within 15 min
    • nihonde 7y ago
      Me too. Same day, even. This is in NYC and I live within five minutes’ walk from the nearest store. Compared to phone support from PC makers (even including the glorious no-questions-asked IBM hardware days), it’s a vast improvement for me.
      • atonse 7y ago
        Yea just to clarify, I'm not trying to compare it to owning a PC. It's still leaps and bounds better. But still the quality in my experience has gone down. My two local stores are in Bethesda, MD.
    • matwood 7y ago
      I think it depends on the area. I live near an Apple store, but it is the only one for a very large area that includes a college. It's literally packed from open to close. I haven't had bad experiences, but definitely not as smooth as yours. People have been saying that Apple has not grown its store count along with the numbers of device users they have added. I think it shows in areas like mine.
    • rosseloh 7y ago
      Just for curiosity's sake what was the issue with the keyboard? Because I work at a repair shop. Not an apple one (we're way too small for that, they want something ridiculous like $100,000 a year in used apple sales before they even consider letting you apply to be a reseller/repair store). People bring apple stuff here because there's nowhere else to take them except a three hour drive to the nearest big city. The only issues I've seen on MacBook keyboards in my 8 years working here, required a full keyboard replacement. And I just did one a couple weeks ago. That's a good hour or two's work, just getting the thing disassembled far enough to get to the keyboard in the first place, then pulling all of the hundred or so screws for the keyboard, replacing it, and rebuilding everything.
• r_singh 7y ago
  And the App Store too. Advertising on the App Store really broke my heart, I thought Apple just made money from us all by selling expensive, high quality devices and apps. These ads are a desperate attempt to now make something over and above by selling my attention, what a shame!
  • wlesieutre 7y ago
    It feels like a way for Apple to claw back even more than their 30% cut. Even if you have a successful app, now you have to take some of your money and buy the search ads for it, otherwise somebody else is going to be the first result when potential customers come to the store looking specifically for your app. You can try and drive traffic straight to your store page from outside sources to bypass that search, but that sort of marketing costs money too. And word of mouth searches are going to be through the App Store search regardless. It was nice when Apple's search felt like it was just trying to help you find what you were looking for. But it's 2019 and we need to put ads in everything now.
    • scarface74 7y ago
      While I agree that ad sales are disheartening, App Store search has never been that great.
      • wlesieutre 7y ago
        It's not perfect, but if I search for "GoodNotes" exactly by name it should give me GoodNotes. The fact that the search results dedicate most of my screen to Notability (one of their main competitors) is some bullshit on Apple's part. https://i.imgur.com/4T7sLXb.png https://i.imgur.com/4T7sLXb.png It would be one thing if I searched for "notebook" or "handwriting" or "notes," but I searched for a specific app by name and they're sending traffic to a competitor because GoodNotes "only" pays 30% of their revenue to Apple, and Apple wants even more on top of that or else a competitor gets their traffic. Sometimes search is bad because search is a hard problem and it's difficult to know what a user is looking for. Apple knows exactly what I was looking for. They're just being dicks about it.
• Vaslo 7y ago
  I understand what this article's view, and I share the same frustrations, but every time I go there, it's packed regardless.
  • jtr_47 7y ago
    The apple store where i live is packed too. I think many of those people are in for repairs on their stuff. Meanwhile, the Microsoft store diagonally located across the mall is usually empty. But some kids are there to play the games on the Xbox side. peace
• chadash 7y ago
  I live near an Apple store and frequent it every few months when I need to fix a phone or laptop, or buy a dongle, etc. The store near me gets lots of foot traffic, but the experience is just fine. There are usually at least 2-3 employees who will come up and ask me how I'm doing and what they can help with. Given the size of the store, the number of employees is surprising actually. And it's as easy as ever to book appointments, in my experience anyway. I think what's changed is that the novelty has worn off. When Apple Stores first became a thing, it was new and sexy. Now, they're everywhere and don't have that wow factor, because it's become a feature of our lives that you go there every so often if you want to try out, fix or buy an apple product in person. And with the novelty factor gone, people find things to complain about if their experience isn't perfect, even though Apple's customer service is still light years ahead of most anyone else [0]. [0] I say this as an Android and Lenovo X1 user. I personally prefer non-mac products, but my wife has a Macbook Pro and an iPhone and I'm always jealous that when things break, she can get them fixed right away, while I worry that a fix will entail multiple unpleasant interactions with phone agents, followed by a multi-week repair process. EDIT: I want to add two ideas here in the hope that someone here finds them helpful. When I make laptop purchases (for non-apple products), the first place I look is Costco. They offered the Carbon X1 laptop with pretty good specs (16gb RAM, i7 processor, 512GB SSD. Similar specs on the Dell XPS 13 that they sell) at a great price, with a 90 day, no questions asked return policy and an extra year of warranty included in the already great price. Even if you aren't a costco member, it's probably worth joining for this deal if you are looking to get a Dell or Lenovo laptop. And in my experience, Costco is very easy to deal with when problems arise. A second idea is to buy using a Chase Sapphire Reserve credit card, which also add a year on to the manufacturer's warranty. Usually, they require you to get a quote from a repair shop and they will reimburse you. In some cases, they will just replace the product straight up. And they are fairly easy to work with. This is the only card I use to make purchases that I know have a chance of breaking.
  • davidy123 7y ago
    Lenovo's onsite service is inexpensive and, in my experience, excellent. I've used it a few times over the years and it's involved minimal interaction with helpful, focused staff and techs.
• evadne 7y ago
  It is almost impossible to pay in person but the Apple Store app offers ability to scan the barcode on almost any accessory and pay on the spot for it without ever seeing staff. I do not have many issues with this model, in fact it makes visits to the Apple Store for the odd cable quite easy. However, I did find that sometimes specific accessories are simply not presented and one must flag down staff to have one pulled out from storage. It is the repair/service story that has really deteriorated over time and Apple would bode well to remember that although PC vendors need to play catch-up they will eventually become good enough. I did find Joint Venture invaluable. Essentially it is a Pay-to-Play scheme which allows you to book same-day appointments and access the Business Team (which gives a slight discount). Anybody remember the good old days when you could have AppleCare send you a box and a return label?
  • balls187 7y ago
    > It is almost impossible to pay in person but the Apple Store app offers ability to scan the barcode on almost any accessory and pay on the spot for it without ever seeing staff. After you pay what is the next step?
    • BillinghamJ 7y ago
      You walk out with the product. Though you can ask someone if you want a bag.
  • BillinghamJ 7y ago
    > Anybody remember the good old days when you could have AppleCare send you a box and a return label? They still do this. Just a standard advance replacement.
• Spooky23 7y ago
  It's the same problem that they have with most of their products. All design considerations are controlled by people driven exclusively by thin, light, minimal. It's getting tired and cliche. I don't live in a place big enough for an Apple forest grove or whatever. It's an undersized store in a mall that was remodeled two years ago. The people who designed it never were in such a store before. It's crowded, too loud, and stripped of basic functions. The old version of the Apple store felt busy and energized, the new ones are disorienting. The old Apple store in the same retail space was much more functional. It had a nice little kids corner with a lower table and fancy toadstool chairs. It was a great way for kids to explore iMacs and iPads. Now purged as a lower table isn't symmetrical enough. The training area is just a table in the middle, and it's just not as pleasant -- people can't hear and leave. Apple has a great thing going with people there though -- it's a real asset. The staff are incredibly friendly, patient and helpful.
  • asdff 7y ago
    The sound thing is a real issue. The Apple store by my parents moved into a larger and renovated space recently with double the height ceilings. It got way louder, to the point where you can barely hear what the reps say to you. I'd have a migraine every day if I had to work a whole shift in there. It's the same problem in restaurants and bars that have this style of concrete floors, hard walls, and exposed duct work ceilings: there is nothing to absorb the sound. When people stripped drapes from windows, carpet from floors, and coverings from ceilings, no one stopped to think why these sound absorbing materials were used in the first place. You can fix this by spraying sound insulating foam all over your beautiful exposed ceiling that no one looks at because it's dusty and painted black and 20 feet in the air, but that's clearly a cost that's already been calculated and cut. As a result, you can't hear anyone at breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, the bar, the gym, or even the Apple store.
• jasode 7y ago
  >[Angela Ahrendts'] overhaul of the Genius Bar has been especially controversial. Customers looking for technical advice or repairs must now check in with an employee, who types their request into an iPad. Then when a Genius is free, he or she must find the customer wherever they happen to be in the store. Ahrendts was determined to get rid of lineups, but now the stores are often crowded with people waiting for their iPhones to be fixed or batteries swapped out. [...] Some employees speculate she’ll [Deirdre O’Brien] bring back the original Genius Bar. I don't see how the old dedicated space for a Genius Bar would work better. The problem is that the old way tied tech support to a spatial location in the store. The new way assigned tech support to a person instead of a location. This allows any and every table in the store to become a temporary "genius bar" for that customer session. In theory, if you had a dedicated area for the Genius Bar, you'd hope it would be free of crowds and be very inviting. An example photo showing open seats ready for instant service for the next customer: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Apple_Genius_Bar_Regentstreet_London.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Apple_Ge... But reality turns out differently. In the following photo, notice the long lines crowding the back of the store at the Genius Bar: https://tr4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2006/10/03/fce299cc-c3bf-11e2-bc00-02911874f8c8/apple_store_07.jpg https://tr4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2006/10/03/fce299cc-c3bf-11... If an Apple exec wants to bring back the dedicated area for the Genius Bar, how does one avoid the logistical nightmare of those lines? You still have to work within the same finite retail floor space. I don't like the new Apple Stores but I do know I'd rather sit down at one of the retail tables instead of stand in line at the old store layout.
  • jonlucc 7y ago
    One way is to make the check-in person more than a dumb data enterer. My iPhone suddenly stopped getting any carrier signal one day. I took it to the Apple store that evening because I needed to go out of town the next day, and I had to have a working phone. I checked in at the front of the store and waited 2.5 hours for my turn with a Genius. The fix was to press the very specific "reset network settings button" (which isn't under Cellular settings, it's under General->Reset). I was relieved it was such a simple fix, but it was ridiculous to wait over 2 hours to press the right button. The check-in person should ask what you've tried and do the most basic triage to avoid this kind of problem congesting the store.
• oldjokes 7y ago
  I went in a few months to get a hardware thing fixed with an appointment set and nobody helped me. I waited for like 10 minutes past by appointment time and everyone was booked up. I tried pestering people but everyone was helping someone else and asked me to wait for another associate. Eventually I gave up and left the store. I'm sure their analytics never even noticed me, their data says I just never showed up for the appointment. It's a bad outcome, I sold the old half broken macbook and switched to a thinkpad. I still think their phones are better than android, but mainly that's just because I don't want anything that Google touches anywhere near me.
  • JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > I waited for like 10 minutes past by appointment time and everyone was booked up Ha. Here in New York, I’ve never had an Apple Store appointment honored inside an hour. Usually an hour and a half. My strategy is now to get a cocktail at the Cipriani Dolce, walk it across to the Apple Store, ignore the “you can’t bring that in here” protests and wait out the hour with a drink.
    • oldjokes 7y ago
      This is hilarious, if you actually do this you should make videos where you tell jokes or just film yourself silently drinking for an hour while waiting. Instant viral success.
  • avelis 7y ago
    Their genius bar is just slowing down since they want you to buy new instead of repair what you have. Not always the case but I get that feeling. That and “IT at home” requests seem to flood the bar now.
    • seqastian 7y ago
      Yea they persuade you to buy more from them with bad service. Flawless logic right there.
• yingw787 7y ago
  I think the slam of less user-friendly products, higher comparative prices, and worse customer support will make any company lose its luster. Apple's done all three, and unless there's a change in the ship's direction, it'll continue bleeding out cash in stock buybacks and dividends and losing premium customers and great employees.
• avelis 7y ago
  The in store experience has changed with the staff. Two examples that come to mind. I remember going in to buy an iPhone 8 after new prices announced. I spoke to a rep for 2 minutes for him to then to say: “let me get someone for you.” Then the actual transaction of buying occurred. Are there so many window shoppers that they have staff just to talk to non-buyers? The second was the genius bar. A speaker blew-out on my MBP, I made an appointment and I am trying to get someone AT THE BAR to tell me how long the repair is going to take before I send it in for service. Meanwhile the person to my left is there because they ran out of hard drive space and cant check their emails. And the person to my right has been there for 4 hours about a phone repair only to trade it in instead. I couldn’t believe the genius bar was inundated with those requests. I know I don’t need special treatment but I literally need actual hardware help. /rant
  • bjelkeman-again 7y ago
    The issue with the person with a full disk I recognise. A lot of people are so untechnical/uninterested that they have no idea how to maintain their computers/phones. I have a friend who is an electrical engineer(!) no less, who bought a new Windows machine when the old one was so infected by malware (kids used it) that it became unusable. Most of my relatives have dedicated siblings or kids providing tech support. Some people don’t have this support and end up at the Genious bar. The number of people I come across who admit to having no backup systems is mind boggling. People who depend on their computers for work.
• ben7799 7y ago
  For me the apple store has basically come to mean: - Very long lines/overcrowded store - It's all full of Apple Watches and stuff like that and trivial luxury accessories - Not enough Macs anymore - None of the really cool displays they used to have like a Mac Pro set up for music studio or video work complete with a camera or midi controller or other instrument plugged in. - For some reason they always smell like BO. Either it's the employees or customers they attract, there is something odd about the design of the store that screws with HVAC, or they're not cleaning well. Very weird thing. So yah, not much luster. Even when they introduce new products these days I don't really want to go into the store and try them cause the experience is bad enough it outweighs the interest to check out the new product. It is weird cause they are such copycats but I think the MS stores are better run now.
  • pram 7y ago
    I agree with your observations about the Apple store, but I wouldn't say the MS stores are run better. At the MS store you can get fast service, but thats mostly because it's empty. The floor staff descends upon you like hungry vultures when you enter, and you can't get rid of them. Thats what I've experienced at the Austin one anyway.
    • ben7799 7y ago
      Yah I can agree with that completely. Mostly my observation is the way they run events and stuff seems very cool. E.x. letting the kids come in and play Fortnite or do coding classes. Seems to always be free. Then they've got VR demos or XBoxes setup with car cockpits..
• maxxxxx 7y ago
  I think part of it is that Apple doesn’t have many interesting new products. I used it be excited about iPhones or iPads but now they just release variations if the same thing I know already pretty well. Why go to a store? And the wait times for support are way too long.
  • pwinnski 7y ago
    > Why go to a store? And the wait times for support are way too long. "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
    • brewdad 7y ago
      Filled with people waiting on support issues for devices that "just work". That should tell you all you need to know about the current Apple Store.
• benatkin 7y ago
  Two things that were features aren't anymore now that I moved to Miami. I'm tired of Face ID. Give me back Touch ID please. My sunglasses prevent Face ID from working when I have them on, and that's quite often here, and I don't want to switch to a light form of Face ID that doesn't check that I'm actually looking at my phone. Sometimes I temporarily take my sunglasses off to use Face ID. The cooling design makes my MacBook Pro very quiet, but it doesn't always keep up with the heat indoors here. I've got to the point where I have to suspend my Vagrant box before I close the lid, or there's a good chance it won't wake up when I open my MacBook Pro and I'll have to restart it. I wish it used fans more to keep it cool. I need to take it into an Apple Store because I think it might be a real hardware problem and not just a limitation or a software problem that causes it not to wake, but I'm not sure. Fortunately we have lots of Apple Stores and the availability is not too bad. There's only one appointment available today and that's 40 miles away in Boca Raton, but there are appointments at about 5 different Apple Stores in the area with appointments available tomorrow.
  • the_watcher 7y ago
    For others who see this and are willing to adjust the settings to use FaceID with sunglasses - just turn off Require Attention for FaceID [0]. Personally, I prefer FaceID (which surprised me!) to TouchID except in bed, when I desperately miss TouchID. [0] https://www.imore.com/how-make-iphone-x-face-id-work-sunglasses https://www.imore.com/how-make-iphone-x-face-id-work-sunglas...
    • benatkin 7y ago
      It's especially annoying if I want to install an app while I'm in bed, and the code won't work, and I have to enter a full password. If I switch to a password that's easier to type, that should be better. Another thing - some sunglasses work with Face ID when its attention detector is enabled, because Face ID can see eyes through them. I'm going to see about it when I get a new pair of sunglasses, which I need anyway because having only one pair of sunglasses in Miami is kind of like having only one pair of shoes. The sunglasses that work with Face ID might become the ones I wear the most often.
    • 7y ago
• spzb 7y ago
  Strange. The article doesn't reflect my experience of Apple stores at all. The only problem I have with them is trying actually to get in past the hordes of kids playing with the latest tech.
• ausjke 7y ago
  They could downsize them to street corner booth for repair needs, or even better just sell some self-help-kits to cover majority of the basic DIY fixes. I don't use apple, my Dell PC and Thinkpad laptop and Android phones never needed any repair, if they do, most likely I will just repair them myself or buy new ones(e.g. keyboard etc). Apple will be struggling for a while after the iphone era for sure.
• pmcollins 7y ago
  When I want to buy something from Apple I can buy it from apple.com and have it shipped to me, but the last time I did this their "two day shipping" took a full week. Never again. Or I can buy it from Amazon, but last time I bought an Apple product from Amazon, I didn't notice it was counterfeit until well after the return window. Never again. Or I can buy it from their physical store. Last time I bought AirPods I drove 45 minutes to the Apple Store and had to wait for 10 minutes for the employee who was going to check me out to answer questions for the customer ahead of me, even though all he needed to do was swipe my credit card (there's a category of products that you can't self-checkout and it includes AirPods).
• sombremesa 7y ago
  I went to buy a brand new laptop at the Apple Store, and despite knowing exactly what I wanted I had to wait for at least 20 minutes - when I walked in, I was told to wait until an associate was free (whereas in most stores I could just grab a product off the shelf and go check out), then I was ping-ponged around at least 2 other people (both of whom I had to wait for - 'just hang around this area and we'll send someone over' - they each spoke to me for less than a minute once they knew I just wanted to buy a thing. What a hassle. The only reason I went brick and mortar at all was because of a promotion where you get a free headphone set, and I wanted to be sure to receive it.
  • dangwu 7y ago
    What B&M store lets you freely grab a $2000+ laptop and bring it to checkout on your own?
    • sombremesa 7y ago
      Good point - it's been a while since I've bought something like that in-store. I did buy a console, though, and that's a pretty smooth experience for a similar item (some stores even just have them out, otherwise you just find someone to grab it and then go to the cashier). The rest of my experience was still abhorrent. The store was practically empty (though that might be an illusion since the store was huge and not visibly mobbed), some employees were just standing around just to tell people to wait in a corner. There was no real system to ensure your 'connection' would actually find you, since you were just told to loiter around the store.
    • celticninja 7y ago
      In the UK, John Lewis, Curry's, PC world. At the least you can ask someone to get one from the stock room for you and you can have it and be on your way within 10 minutes. I bought my last laptop from John Lewis in about 5 mins of entering the store.
      • smnscu 7y ago
        This comparison is almost not fair. I've recently moved back to the UK and experienced John Lewis for the first time. Now I almost try to avoid buying from Amazon if I can help it, I can't believe how good the shopping experience is there. Also, they price match most online retailers if I remember/understood correctly which is insane.
• bluedino 7y ago
  I love the store itself. The problem is, the ones closest to me are almost 2 hours away, and in HUGE shopping malls that are a pain to get in and out of. They are packed, but if you make an appointment they usually get to you on time or even early. Each mall also has a Microsoft store which is a sad abyss of emptiness.
• burtonator 7y ago
  One main reason the stores anger me is that they're actively disincentivezed to develop PWAs (progress web apps) or cross-platform technologies. The App Store makes Apple billions. By locking you down they get the ability to get a cut of your app. If you could install a mobile app directly from the web, they're cut out of the loop. They also can't use it as a system of control to block apps they dislike. I agree that there are times where this might be valuable and that there are APIs that you might want to restrict but then have a fair policy about which apps you block and also have a way to get PWAs approved easily. Also, it's VERY expensive to get your app there due to their use of Dunn and Bradstreet. You either have to pay $1000 or you have to wait 1-3 months until your company is approved.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • pwinnski 7y ago
    What does this have to do with the retail stores that are the focus of this article?
• aczerepinski 7y ago
  At Christmas time I had to make an appointment to buy a watch. I waited 15 minutes for my scheduled time slot and then learned they were out of stock.
• frou_dh 7y ago
  When I've seen people doing those sit-down training classes in the store, I wonder if they retain any information at all, because it's in the midst of a massively noisy and distracting environment.
• runako 7y ago
  TL;DR; "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." [1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/
  • specialist 7y ago
    The fix seems kinda obvious: Increase supply to meet demand.
• _the_inflator 7y ago
  At my local Apple Store there is now a flipchart at the shop front which features the new Apple products: iPhone, MacBook, iPad. This is so sad, and reminds me of cheap and greasy sales people but not of Apple. It looks more like a shop that went bankrupt and needs to sell its inventory ASAP. This impression is really sad.
• bunderbunder 7y ago
  The absolute worst thing about going to the Apple store is figuring out how to flag someone down if they're busy. For that reason alone, I've stopped recommending Apple products to my older relatives. Once upon a time, the dominant factor was that the walled garden allowed them to feel less intimidated by their technology, which left them feeling like their devices were vastly more capable, even when they technically had fewer features. Now, the dominant factor is that, when they need help, they need the ability to talk to a human, and Apple is no longer supplying easy access to humans, they've put all the certified resellers who did offer that service out of business, and I personally do not scale. Best Buy and Microcenter, on the other hand, still have a place right at the front of the store, next to the entrance, where you can go get help from a human without having to make an appointment on a cleanly-designed-to-the-point-of-being-confusing-for-many-people website first. I'm sure Apple believes they've streamlined things immensely by getting rid of the whole "here's a place you can wait in line to do X" thing, but, like you said, at least some of the benefit they're seeing is probably illusory, because it leaves them with no great way to measure how long people have to wait to talk to someone in the first place, or how many people are giving up without ever successfully talking to someone. What they really need to do is put a triage desk right by the entrance of every Apple store.
  • ghostly_s 7y ago
    Obviously it sounds like y'alls experience has been different, but at the store I frequent in Chicago they have 1-2 people on staff doing this triage with everyone who walks in (though they just stand around the entrance, not at a desk). I definitely have had issues with wait time (I've mostly chalked that up to it being a very busy flagship location, but sounds like it's a larger issue), but they always check me in right away when I arrive, so I assume they are at least aware of the wait time issue.
    • dhosek 7y ago
      The "Lincoln Park" store (sorry, but North and Clybourne was never Lincoln Park) is excellent for service. Michigan Avenue is an absolute disaster. A bit part of it is the relative traffic levels. LP has a fraction of the customer load that MA has and that makes all the difference.
• dwighttk 7y ago
  Apple got too popular and needs 5x the amount of store they have near me in Durham, NC. I can still get service, but it is a chore. Show up before they open, or book an appointment 2 weeks in advance. The only good part is that I used to need to talk to a repair person ~2x a year and now I've gone in like once every 2 years... (still too busy though)
• derefr 7y ago
  Every Apple Store with a Genius Bar has a receptionist (a guy holding an iPad with the Genius Bar appointment schedule on it, running interference at the entrance to the store), and usually they try to get your attention if you look like you’re coming in for an appointment and/or a pickup rather than to browse; but I guess they can miss you if they’re busy. I think the Genius Bar “workflow” might depend on speaking to said receptionist (either directly, or having someone redirect you back to them.) Without them, nobody knows you’ve arrived, so you don’t end up in the service queue.
  • groovybits 7y ago
    It sounds like this situation can be remedied in multiple ways: * Email a customer a reminder email with explicit instructions on who to talk to in-store * Train the Genius Bar techs to point a customer to the receptionist when looking for an appt * Put up a sign in-store that points customers to the receptionist * Have the receptionist wear a differently-styled uniform than the techs (nametag, color, etc) This does not sound like a difficult problem to solve. Then again, it could have been the perfect storm of events for OP. Maybe the receptionist had to step out and take an emergency phone call. You never know what could happen. At the very least, the techs and associates working the floor should at least be able to point the customer to the correct place/associate. A 'schedule appt' service queue should not be mixed with the 'walk-in' and 'browsing' service queue.
    • dylan604 7y ago
      Or, have the Genius bar receptionist near the Genius Bar. Only in furniture stores am I expecting an employee to grab me as soon as I walk in the door.
      • groovybits 7y ago
        Like I said, anything can happen. As far as I'm concerned, it is the customer's responsibility to show up for the appt. It is then the associate's responsibility to initiate the required services - whoever that associate may be. On a personal note: As a customer, I take the concept of a schedule appt much more seriously than simply browsing. With browsing: I am a tentative customer of a product. I am new business. Whether you want new business is up to you. If I have a bad experience, I'll go somewhere else. With a schedule appt: I am a current customer. I have already bought into your product, and now I have an issue with it. If I have a bad experience, I am now under the impression that I have wasted money and time with consulting your associates.
• tjr 7y ago
  I've only been in an Apple Store a few times, and have always thought it a cool store, but just not very practical. At best, I buy a new computer every few years. I kept my first iPad for about five years before getting a new one. I buy a new phone maybe every couple of years. Despite recent design decisions that I find questionable, thus far Apple products remain the best choice for the work I do, so I don't really want or need to go to the store in person to be impressed. I just order online whatever best meets my requirements. The last time I bought a computer in person was about 14 years ago. I did buy an iPad case at an Apple store recently...
• froboy 7y ago
  In addition to all these other things, Apple within the past year or so changed the bathrooms in (from what I’ve heard) all the stores from public to “staff only”. What kind of “Town Square” doesn’t have a toilet?
• vbuwivbiu 7y ago
  Apple store staff have had cult-member aloofness for as long as I can remember
• TheMagicHorsey 7y ago
  This article misses a very obvious point. The reason it takes so long to get help in an Apple store is because those stores are so popular. This isn't Apple Stores losing their lustre. This is Apple Stores being a victim of their own success.
• dmart 7y ago
  Yes! The Genius Bar experience has been terrible (especially as a somewhat socially anxious person) the past few times I've been there. A lot of sitting while constantly busy employees buzzed around, unsure if I was waiting in the right place, hoping someone would come by and ask what I there for. It's like they're emulating the real bar experience, with a bunch of overworked and inattentive bartenders. Just give me a dedicated line to pick my stuff up.
  • beamatronic 7y ago
    Honestly I have felt many times that the Apple Store could use a vending machine for iPhones. Anything that somebody might want to just grab and go no matter how expensive.
    • rootusrootus 7y ago
      1000% agree. I don't always want someone to walk me through setting up my iPhone. I've used them since the very first one, I don't need any help. Take my money already and let me get out. Even just picking up a set of airpods for my wife took far longer than it should have. A vending machine would be all kinds of awesome, maybe like the ones Best Buy has at the airport (which sells some Apple products like airpods, coincidentally...)
      • beamatronic 7y ago
        I had the opposite experience once at the Ala Moana store. Needing the 1/4 in. headphone adapter (separate rant) I waited patiently, got someone’s attention, and made my purchase. They kindly informed me that next time I should self-service with the Apple app. Meaning I should have walked in, pulled item from shelf, checked myself out, and walked out.
      • neivin 7y ago
        Question: Why don't you just order online and have it shipped to your office/home?
      • PKop 7y ago
• lowlevel 7y ago
  I find the apple store uninviting and uncomfortable. They're generally packed with people standing around... you have no idea where to go or who is available... more obscurely controlled chaos than clear and apparent order. I feel visiting the store is generally going to be bad experience for most people.
• dep_b 7y ago
  Nothing but stellar experiences for me so far in Holland. Everything fixed in a day, just got a new screen for free on my MacBook Pro 2011 in Haarlem. But super hard to get appointments sometimes.
• pwinnski 7y ago
  "Lost Its Luster" suggests we can point to a decline from peak. The basis for the article? According to the subhead, "In interviews, current and former employees..." Oh boy. The article lays out the high: "As recently as 2017, the retail arm was generating an estimated $5,500 in sales per square foot, easily outpacing rivals. But that’s getting harder to pull off." And the low? Not specified. That number could be higher or lower in 2019, we are not told. It turns out that a company employing hundreds of thousands of people has some disgruntled ex-employees who prefer the way things used to be. The writer suggests that this is the fault of the woman who ran the retail division until recently, not, say, monumental growth or a human propensity for empty nostalgia. I don't see any factual basis for the headlines anywhere in the article. Am I missing it?
  • crsv 7y ago
    The By Line is from one of their main Apple analysts paired with a guy that covers retail exclusively. Likely the story they're trying to play out is this general downward trend in retail, but there's very little steak here. It reads like a hit piece for someone with interest in the stock trading lower, rather than the meaningful reporting of legitimate news here.
• simonh 7y ago
  Lost it's lustre (headline) = So spectacularly successful, they're swamped with customers and can't keep up with the demand (long waits described in text). Illustrated by a picture of an almost empty Apple store.
• jchw 7y ago
  I was at the Valley Fair Apple Store in Santa Clara to pick up an order recently. It was very busy; a bit uncomfortably so, but to my surprise I was helped quickly and went in and out. Afterwards, there was a survey, which is not surprising. Knowing Apple, they probably do pay attention to the survey results. If some Apple Stores are having issues, I’m guessing they should know... My only real complaint is just how packed they get. I was sure I’d be waiting forever to reach an employee.
• balls187 7y ago
  I suppose because I'm in tech, I have the flexibility of shopping at retail stores at off-peak hours, as I have had only pleasant experiences when shopping at the Bellevue Square and South Center malls.
• fit2rule 7y ago
  Need to make an appointment to go to the shop and get up-sold on something? No longer a shop. (Note: Store/Shop, same diff.) I see the Apple Store these days as more of a cult. Sort of like what religions want to be, albeit centred around a computing lifestyle rather than a spiritual one. Sorry, not sorry for the comparison. It really does feel like going to church.
• techslave 7y ago
  these kinds of threads are good ones to scan for entitled users. “omg i can’t park close to the busiest store at the mall / downtown. i have to wait for help at the busiest store. i can’t find the cashier. i could run this show sooo much better “ now to just link the hn username to a resume for black flagging.
• dyeje 7y ago
  Appointments at the Apple store are a joke. The last 3 times I went in for one, I was acknowledged by a team member and it still took over an hour for them to see me. If I wasn't aggressive about it, it would have been much longer like it was for the half dozen elderly people sitting confused with me.
• HillaryBriss 7y ago
  when my Mac had a serious problem, i was so disappointed by the low level of service at my local Apple Store that I looked on Yelp for a good one. i would have driven a hundred miles to get away from the smug, the problem denials, the repeated trips, the incompetent repairs carried out with defective used parts. but there weren't any good ones. the Yelp ratings for all the stores in my area were just meh, or downright bad. i felt like i'd been tricked into buying an expensive, unmaintainable hunk of aluminum. i like Macs, but those experiences made me want to avoid any more Mac purchases.
• alasdair_ 7y ago
  The wait times are ridiculous. It took half an hour the last time I was there just to talk to someone. I was there to spend upwards of $5000 on new hardware and I knew exactly what I wanted - I just needed to pay for it and have someone hand it to me. Total transaction time was over an hour and I would have left if I didn’t need it that day.
• iamleppert 7y ago
  I had a bad experience at the store in SF. The staff all have this very pompous “can’t be bothered” attitude and they make you wait a long time in their creepy indoor seating tree park with other hostages that showed up for their appointment. Then you finally get to speak with someone, who can’t really do anything other than replace your device. Why couldn’t one of the sales people just give me a new device? What’s the point?
• chappi42 7y ago
  > “It’s become harder to buy something, even when the place isn’t busy. Buying a product there used to be a revered thing, now you don’t want to bother with the inconvenience.” Hmm, yes. After work I thought I'd 'just' pass at an Apple store and either buy a new battery or let it quickly replace. No chance: first came the appointment, then I learned that no batteries would be sold and an exchange needed about a week. What now? Ended with buying an Anyoneer at Amazon for a third of the price and not feeling too happy with Apple. (But it started before, there is a reason I needed a new battery for my old (2013 highly 'loved') MBA and bought a new Thinkpad).
• Pigo 7y ago
  I've never set foot in one, and I never plan too.
• apo 7y ago
  > There was the time he visited the Easton Town Center location to buy a laptop for his 11-year-old daughter and spent almost 20 minutes getting an employee to accept his credit card. In January, Smith was buying a monitor and kept asking store workers to check him out, but they couldn’t because they were Apple “Geniuses” handling tech support and not sales. This is nothing new. It was very difficult to just buy a laptop from my local store in 2014. Apple stores have never worked like any other store. The purpose is for passers-by to see lots of people inside as social proof.
• hourislate 7y ago
  They are successful in spite of themselves. When you can treat the customer with complete disregard and they still trip over themselves to line up and buy your product, what is onus to change? I find their employees very smug like they are just so important that us common folk can fuck off and wait or simply be ignored until they decide to help/serve us. I filled out their survey after purchasing two XS Max's (for the fam, I'm a 1+ guy). They never even acknowledged my complaints about the terrible customer service I received. I guess it works until it doesn't......
• Krokku 7y ago
  I went to an apple store with my Mac. "New screen" they said after tapping through a questionnaire on their stupid iPad - $800 they said it would cost. I can tap through a questionnaire on an iPad like some 3 year old retard also and come up with the most expensive alternative. Thats not rocket science. Independent repair show fixed it for $100. Fuck Apple. The most regrettable purchase I ever in the last 20 years made was that MacBook.
• TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Why is Apple Store service a thing at all? Service and repairs should happen at a service and repair centre, not at a retail centre. Service Just Doesn't Work if you try to combine the two. You get huge delays, bureaucratic errors, people waiting and taking up space, and a general air of stress, confusion, and chaos, with everyone running around trying to handle at least two unrelated visitor streams. It feels to me as if the original intent of retail has been overwhelmed by reality, and the whole could do with a rethink. The customer experience is usually pretty terrible now, whether it's service or sales. It's certainly not effortlessly positive in any way.
• partiallypro 7y ago
  Every time I go past/in one, it just looks like it's people wasting time at the mall waiting on someone that's shopping elsewhere, or people there for repairs. 50% of the people there are all Apple employees, and most of them don't seem to do anything but chit-chat. Every time I walk past a Microsoft store there aren't too many customers, but usually they are hosting a gaming tournament or a code academy with tons of teens/kids. It's an interesting dynamic.
• sonnyblarney 7y ago
  The Apple Store is now fully an episode of Portlandia. It's like a big confusing miasma at burning man where everyone is trying to 'contact' another through signs on the big board "Mine is the pink one by the bottom!" i.e. to differentiate it from the 1000 other pink notes by the bottom ... Take a goddam number, or have a station where people can go where they get that number. Instead of the stupid trying to find your blind-date/fixer in a crowd, they go to a spot where you can find them. The numbers are up on a screen so you know if you have 10 or 30 minutes to wait and you can tell when you're up. We figured out lines and numbers maybe 2000 years ago but Mesopotamian technology apparently isn't hipster enough for Cupertino. Please - we want to see an Kumail Nanjiani thing about this on Funny or Die.
• Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
  I went in for a battery replacement back in November (Granted this was in the UK not the US). Booked the appointment online, Went in at the correct time, one of the staff in the store told me "Spoke the people in the back of the store with iPads, they handle genius bar appointments, Spoke to them (took my name), quickly found me in the system and told me they were very busy atm I could wait or rebook (It was lunch time in a city centre), Said I'll wait, Told me to take a seat over there --->, said "tell them to give me a shout as I'm hard of hearing" (Am a little but not too bad, I just wanted to waste my time playing on a mac instead of just sitting at a full table twiddling my thumbs (dead battery on my phone, didn't think about bring my charger with me), told the person "telling the system I'm here" this they laughed and said OK. 10-20ish mins later (Lost track of time, was dicking about on the net), someone shouts my name, got his attention and we went to a quieter table (guess the hard of hearing thing worked :-P). Docked my phone and started running some tests, while running the tests we talked about Work, games (A nice discussion on which was our fav build of Counter Strike). Yup I needed a new battery, Would take 60-90 mins to replace. Agreed to the repair terms (Yes I took a back up, no I will not sue if you have to wipe my phone, Yes you may claim my first born, etc etc etc). Told them I had ID (They wanted a method to make sure that I was me when picking up my phone, asked "what if I didn't have my ID on me as I don't normally carry it?", said they have other methods they can use like showing the same Credit/Debit Card I used to to book in the job. Went and got some food, went to visit one of my fav bars in the city centre, went back about 90 mins later and spoke to the same people at the back of the store who had the iPads. They said "all done, someone will be with you soon" 5 mins later I had my phone back with a new battery (showed my id to say I am me). Apart from the genius bar being busy (Would be nice if I didn't have to wait, but a) I knew I booked a lunch time slot b) I made "plans" not to do anything that afternoon. So not the end of the world for me. But I could see it being a pain in the ass if someone was trying to drop their device off during their lunch break and had to wait around.) I can't say that I had a bad time there. Store in question if it makes a difference to anyone: New St Apple Store, Birmingham, UK.
• actionowl 7y ago
  I went to the Apple store in Singapore a couple of months ago, they were fairly busy but I got helped pretty quickly, got a new device and someone took me upstairs to get it charged and setup. So just want to add that I had a good experience at my last trip to an Apple store.
• bdcravens 7y ago
  The only surprise to me about the article is suggesting that this is a recent thing. I’ve experienced this for years.
• jarjoura 7y ago
  Meh, if anything the Apple Store is a victim of its own success. For all the complaints in this thread about slow Genius bar experiences, it's important to remember it was originally designed and conceived as a way to teach people HOW to use their new Mac's and iPhones. In the early 2000s Mac's were still considered toys and Apple was trying to get around that by allowing people to learn as much as they can about their new hardware. Apple consistently gets top ratings for customer service across the industry, and not saying there isn't room for improvement, obviously there is, but point me to another electronics company of Apple's size that is doing it better?
• CWuestefeld 7y ago
  I have one experience with the Apple store, when I went there to try to get my wife's phone fixed. I had no idea that's a stupid thing to do, that you can't just go there and ask for help. Actually, I had to go there and try to flag someone down. He told me that I had to make an appointment to get help. But he couldn't just make the appointment for me. There was a line for that. I was told they'd probably be able to get to me in a half hour or so, so I should come back then. At that point I was able to make an appointment to come back a week hence, when I could get them to actually look at the phone. They did eventually fix the problem very satisfactorily, but the process to get to that point was nothing less than infuriating.
  • askafriend 7y ago
    You could have booked an appointment sitting at home in your underwear.
    • CWuestefeld 7y ago
      I had no idea that "an appointment" was even a thing.
• asdff 7y ago
  I'm disappointed with the lack of autonomy that the staff has in the Apple Store. In any interaction with the genius staff, they go off the official playbook to the point where it doesn't even make sense sometimes. I have a macbook pro where I've replaced the disk drive with an SSD and boot off of that. One day it stopped booting from that drive, so I brought it into the genius bar to see if the drive was dead or if a ribbon cable failed. After talking about the problem for a while, they finally took it to the back and opened it up, and just as quickly returned it to me with a grave face. They saw that the optical drive had been removed and the RAM upgraded to 16gb, and because of their corporate policies, all they could do to a machine that's been upgraded is button it back up and return it to the user. Never mind that the problem with my macbook wasn't the drive or the cable, the drive had wiggled out of its mount and was just loose in the case. You could shake the laptop and hear it slapping around, and the geniuses definitely would have noticed the loose drive as soon as they opened it like I did when I returned home, but their policy was such that they couldn't even tell me what they saw in there. Imagine if your local mechanic operated so rigidly. Looking back at it, it was like a scene out of 1984 and I wouldn't have been surprised if one of the geniuses slipped me a scrap of paper with the words on it that they clearly weren't permitted to utter with an apple lanyard around their neck ("reattach ssd to optibay").
  • ibeckermayer 7y ago
    Amazing. Somebody should write a “1984” centered around the sinister stew of the marriage of corporate/government bureaucratic rot and authoritarianism we’ve wound up in.
• jccalhoun 7y ago
  I've never even SEEN an Apple store let alone been in one. Looking on their site it looks like the nearest one is 90 miles away from me.
• ramon 7y ago
  Answer to the question price tag and service! OBS: Now I open up regular notebooks myself and fix them when I need to do so. No need to pay to repair or pray for someone with MacOS to help anymore, I'm my own service now just spend on parts yay!
• b3b0p 7y ago
  I walked into an Apple Store twice in the last month: 1. I walk up to an employee and said, "Want to make an easy sale? I want an iPad Pro 11" with the keyboard and Apple Care." As we were talking with in about 30 seconds after he pulled out his device someone came walking out with the items. I pulled out my phone and payed via Apple Pay. Done. 2. The next time I walked in, an employee asked me what I was looking for. I said, "I would like to buy a HomePod." He said and showed me exactly who to speak with. I walked over, I told him I wanted a HomePod and he asked which color. I said what do you recommend, as I liked the white, but was afraid it would show signs of getting dirty. He said black (Space Gray). He grabbed a Space Gray HomePod. I paid with Apple Pay and was on my way. Apple Store @ Mall of America both times.
• carlospwk 7y ago
  Finn here. We don't have an Apple store, but I've been to a few in NYC. Just wondering around and looking all the staff run around and people waiting gives me anxiety. If I buy an Apple product, I either order it with express delivery from the Apple website (not very often) or go buy it from whatever electronics store has it in stock for the cheapest price. I have no idea why I'd want to purchase it from an actual Apple store. When the keyboard on my MBP broke a few years ago, I just took it to whatever authorized repair shop and gave it to the guy after being second in line. First he did some temp fix, but when I told him I wanted it properly fixed under AppleCare, it was done in a few days.
• ksec 7y ago
  Before iPhone, Apple had ~160 Stores, and were expanding as quickly as they could, by 2007 they had nearly 200 Stores. And that was only serving ~30M [1] Mac users and less than 100M iPod users. So how many stores did Apple add while having an extra 900M iPhone, 300M iPad, 70M Mac active users? 300. As of today Apple had roughly 500 Stores world wide. Even if they had 1000 Stores worldwide serving their 1B+ Customers, the store to customer count is still insanely high. Apple was actually expanding Apple Store as quickly as they could all the way to 2015. Given the quality and demand Apple requires it was still opening nearly 1 store per week. Then from 2015 onward there were only 60 Stores opened, most ( if not all ) of them were planned before 2015. I still think giving Apple the brand image make over in Apple Retail were good, but it doesn't have to a trade off to Genius Bar and Stores Count. [1]Speaking of Mac users, I have yet to see anyone to point out the number of Mac unit and Churn rate. Tim Cook said half of the Mac were sold to new comers, and they are mostly from China. That is roughly 10M. We would then expect Mac user base to grow at ~10M per year, assuming no one is leaving the ecosystem at a noticeable rate. Except it hasn't. Apple had ~55M Mac users in 2011, they said they were close to 100M users in early 2017. And only manage to hit the 100M in late 2018. Or May be my analysis is wrong.
• clay_the_ripper 7y ago
  Unlike many of the comments here my experience at Apple stores has gotten a lot better recently. I’ve been in twice in the past month for some hardware fixes, and both experiences were great. I got an appoinemt the same day, service was fast and professional and I found there to be an excess of people wanting to help me. This was in San Francisco by the way so I can’t speak for other areas. Prior to this I found that appointments were booked more than a week out and there were long wait times even for when I showed up for said appointment. I love the Apple store and find it to be the best retail experience in the biz right now.
• totaldude87 7y ago
  USA: Went to apple store to replace my iPhone 6 battery, after waiting for two hours, an assistant told me to hand of phone and asked me to come back after 3 days (&probably wait 2-3 hours before i get my phone). didn't replace the battery UK: Went to buy iPhone, had to wait few mins in "line" , bought and came back within 1 hour on opening day ..
• musicale 7y ago
  It seems that it's not scaling out well at all as Apple products become more popular. It is definitely annoying how all of the appointment slots are constantly filled, which indicates that demand exceeds supply. However, at my local Apple store they check you in and then text you when they are ready so you don't have to wait in the store. Bizarrely they didn't do this when I bought a phone, and instead made a bunch of us wait outside in the sun for 90 minutes or so. With Apple-logo umbrellas and water. This was the preorder group with assigned time slots, mind you (there was another line for walk-ins.) I would have preferred to check in and have them text me when my phone was ready, as they normally do with service appointments.
• snowwrestler 7y ago
  "Nobody goes there anymore; it's too busy." - Yogi Berra
• uzbit 7y ago
  The most surprising thing about this is how many HN readers/commenters are actually seeking help at a brick and mortar store full of "geniuses".