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But what's the difference? The end result is the same: your device(s) are confiscated and they attempt to brute force the password. Telling an officer that you

But what's the difference? The end result is the same: your device(s) are confiscated and they attempt to brute force the password. Telling an officer that you cannot give them the password because you did some techno-mumbo-jumbo is just going to piss them off and make them assume you have "something to hide" because "no honest person would go to those lengths".

rlue 7y ago
Yes. This thread is full of people proposing inventive technical solutions to genuinely prohibit your own access to the device while you're going through customs, as if border patrol a) knows the difference and b) gives a damn. These are all functionally equivalent to "Um, I forgot my password." (Or, if you wish for a more plausible but equally ineffective excuse, "This is actually my mother's laptop; I'm bringing it to her and I don't know the password.") If an LEO (claims to) need access to something and you give him a dead end, it's his job to assume you're lying and find the next legal option available to him. The real question you should be asking yourselves isn't "How would you outsmart the caveman cop in this situation?" Rather, it's "What can/will you do, as a citizen, to resist the erosion of our civil liberties?" Sadly, I have no easy answers here.
- abeyer 7y ago
  > it's his job to assume you're lying and find the next legal option available to him. Not sure where you live, but in the US it's actually his first and foremost responsibility to uphold a constitution that says that people are free from unreasonable searches and seizures.
  - endymi0n 7y ago
    Well, in a country with a for-profit, for-"performance" law enforcement system, where prosecutors are paid by how many people they put in jail and cops are paid by how many traffic tickets they write, do you really think some paper from 1787 is going to have much influence on a TSA agent if their paycheck depends on sorting out as many "bad guys" as possible?
  - Amygaz 7y ago
    Oh you should try that at US border. Let us know how well it worked out... Spoiler alert: If not cooperating, then BPO not friendly; Else, please proceed.
  - krageon 7y ago
    > people are free from unreasonable searches and seizures I want to say "clearly you have never used US customs", though I suppose it's possible you have and you are just very lucky.
  - thefringthing 7y ago
    The Canadian constitution (specifically the part of it called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) guarantees the same right, however, constitutional rights in Canada are granted only up to "reasonable limits". Those limits are determined by the Supreme Court.
- fredgrott 7y ago
  better solution access stuff via ssh graphically another desktop machine for all work and browsing...last access remove the ssh key than when CBP ask for password give it and watch them search the laptop.. You full filled your legal obligation to follow their orders despite the illegality its now their problem they cannot find anything Note...all social public stuff is searchable on google..tweets facebook postings etc.. CBP never needs a password they are searching with that password for other reasons than the ones they GIVE
Buttons840 7y ago
You're right. I missed an important part of the comment I was replying to: you need to say something about "company policy" or "company lawyers", now you're playing in the both the social and technical realm. Nothing justifies an honest person going to great lengths to do some weird thing quite like "company policy". Nothing makes officers think twice like the mention of lawyers backed by Apple / Google levels of money.

rlue 7y ago

Yes. This thread is full of people proposing inventive technical solutions to genuinely prohibit your own access to the device while you're going through customs, as if border patrol a) knows the difference and b) gives a damn. These are all functionally equivalent to "Um, I forgot my password." (Or, if you wish for a more plausible but equally ineffective excuse, "This is actually my mother's laptop; I'm bringing it to her and I don't know the password.") If an LEO (claims to) need access to something and you give him a dead end, it's his job to assume you're lying and find the next legal option available to him. The real question you should be asking yourselves isn't "How would you outsmart the caveman cop in this situation?" Rather, it's "What can/will you do, as a citizen, to resist the erosion of our civil liberties?" Sadly, I have no easy answers here.

abeyer 7y ago
> it's his job to assume you're lying and find the next legal option available to him. Not sure where you live, but in the US it's actually his first and foremost responsibility to uphold a constitution that says that people are free from unreasonable searches and seizures.
- endymi0n 7y ago
  Well, in a country with a for-profit, for-"performance" law enforcement system, where prosecutors are paid by how many people they put in jail and cops are paid by how many traffic tickets they write, do you really think some paper from 1787 is going to have much influence on a TSA agent if their paycheck depends on sorting out as many "bad guys" as possible?
- Amygaz 7y ago
  Oh you should try that at US border. Let us know how well it worked out... Spoiler alert: If not cooperating, then BPO not friendly; Else, please proceed.
- krageon 7y ago
  > people are free from unreasonable searches and seizures I want to say "clearly you have never used US customs", though I suppose it's possible you have and you are just very lucky.
- thefringthing 7y ago
  The Canadian constitution (specifically the part of it called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) guarantees the same right, however, constitutional rights in Canada are granted only up to "reasonable limits". Those limits are determined by the Supreme Court.
fredgrott 7y ago
better solution access stuff via ssh graphically another desktop machine for all work and browsing...last access remove the ssh key than when CBP ask for password give it and watch them search the laptop.. You full filled your legal obligation to follow their orders despite the illegality its now their problem they cannot find anything Note...all social public stuff is searchable on google..tweets facebook postings etc.. CBP never needs a password they are searching with that password for other reasons than the ones they GIVE

Buttons840 7y ago

You're right. I missed an important part of the comment I was replying to: you need to say something about "company policy" or "company lawyers", now you're playing in the both the social and technical realm. Nothing justifies an honest person going to great lengths to do some weird thing quite like "company policy". Nothing makes officers think twice like the mention of lawyers backed by Apple / Google levels of money.