6 ms·

Not a great idea. You have no reason to believe deleted and cached copies aren’t lingering on you disk unprotected.

by pmorici 7y ago

vbezhenar 7y ago
If you're THAT worried, then securely reformat disk and reinstall OS just before travel.
- angott 7y ago
  Yes, that’s something we can do as HN readers, but good luck explaining that to the average lawyer or paralegal.
  - wepple 7y ago
    Instructing then how to power wash their chrome book and then simply login with their you okey again is achievable
    - cormacrelf 7y ago
      Or just set up a rental service for overseas computing. Good thing about non-programmers is they don’t need three days to get 300 pieces of software installed and configured on a new machine.
- morganvachon 7y ago
  This action can be flagged as suspicious as well, triggering a deeper investigation into the traveler. It's not always feasible, but the most secure way to protect clients'/employers' data is to encrypt the laptop and phone and ship to your destination via standard shipping services, then ship them back the same way before leaving for home. Carry a well used but non-critical burner laptop ($50 Chromebook off Craigslist) and/or phone ($20 Walmart smartphone) with you that won't wreck your world if it's confiscated and searched. If it is seized, take your receipt and go on about your business. When you get to your destination your actual devices will be waiting for you. You can safely forget about the burner devices.
  - ColanR 7y ago
    Your advice to mail ahead your secure computer is not good. Mailed electronics are just as susceptible to search, if not more so, as what you keep with you. I think the reality we have to grapple with, regardless of rights violated, is that if you want to cross a nation border, it's best to assume that all nations involved will end up with a copy of all the data (hopefully encrypted) you move across that border. In the face of that scenario, how do we proceed?
    - mises 7y ago
      It's much easier for a policeman to demand the password to decrypt data when he has you in custody at customs than when it is searched by the mailman. You're confusing "not perfect" with "not good". There's an old saying: when outrunning a bear, you don't have to be the fastest guy, you just have to be faster than the slowest guy.
      - chii 7y ago
        > It's much easier for a policeman to demand the password to decrypt data when he has you in custody at customs than when it is searched by the mailman. is that really true? I would expect that they can just perform hardware tampering when you're not present when searching in mailed items, but given that customs might use racial profiling to target you at airport, you may be better off mailing the computer securely, such as using tamper-proof or tamper-evident stickers/bags.
        michaelt 7y ago
        Dragnet demanding your password at the border is something we know they do - there are loads of witnesses saying they were asked for passwords at borders. Dragnet hardware tampering of electronics in the mail is not something we know they do. I've only seen two articles claiming evidence of physical tampering - like a hoax about Dell from 2005 [1] and Bloomberg's dodgy story about spy chips from last year [2] - neither of which seems truthy, and neither of which involved mail interdiction. (Of course, it's widely suspected mailed hardware can be tampered with, but most of the claims/speculation I've read has been about targeted tampering, not dragnet) [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/keyboard-loggers/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/keyboard-loggers/ [2] https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/04/bloomberg-spy-chip-murky-world-national-security-reporting/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/04/bloomberg-spy-chip-murky-w...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- pmorici 7y ago
  If you are going to bother you might as well do something that will be effective.
BurningCycles 7y ago
Can't you just use a tool like 'shred' to securely delete the file(s) ?
- dan-robertson 7y ago
  The problem here is knowing where all the files are. Are you sure you could list all the places eg ms word stores cached copies of your document? And that you’d be able to overwrite the data from copies that have since been unlinked from the filesystem?
- snuxoll 7y ago
  Encryption is a better solution, always. It’s easier to forget a passphrase and render the key useless, especially if you’re using a SSD where the controller has no obligation to actually overwrite a cell that you’re trying to shred.
- yepguy 7y ago
  My understanding is that shred hasn't been reliable for many years now due to smarter and less predictable firmware in modern storage devices. Basically, you can't trust that your SSD deleted the data it said it did, or that it writes data to the place you told it.
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    Even with spinning rust, a sector remap would keep the old data in the old spot
    - efreak 7y ago
      So far as I know, wiping free space is a feature that has been available for many years in free utility suites and even recovery software (CCleaner, etc). I believe it's also directly available in Windows' Disk Cleanup utility; on Linux you call just use dd to fill the disk. This isn't as secure as a multiple wipe, but it can also be done multiple times; on Linux you can alternately use tr or some such to tell dd to write ones instead of /dev/zero.

Not a great idea. You have no reason to believe deleted and cached copies aren’t lingering on you disk unprotected.

vbezhenar 7y ago

If you're THAT worried, then securely reformat disk and reinstall OS just before travel.

angott 7y ago
Yes, that’s something we can do as HN readers, but good luck explaining that to the average lawyer or paralegal.
- wepple 7y ago
  Instructing then how to power wash their chrome book and then simply login with their you okey again is achievable
  - cormacrelf 7y ago
    Or just set up a rental service for overseas computing. Good thing about non-programmers is they don’t need three days to get 300 pieces of software installed and configured on a new machine.
morganvachon 7y ago
This action can be flagged as suspicious as well, triggering a deeper investigation into the traveler. It's not always feasible, but the most secure way to protect clients'/employers' data is to encrypt the laptop and phone and ship to your destination via standard shipping services, then ship them back the same way before leaving for home. Carry a well used but non-critical burner laptop ($50 Chromebook off Craigslist) and/or phone ($20 Walmart smartphone) with you that won't wreck your world if it's confiscated and searched. If it is seized, take your receipt and go on about your business. When you get to your destination your actual devices will be waiting for you. You can safely forget about the burner devices.
- ColanR 7y ago
  Your advice to mail ahead your secure computer is not good. Mailed electronics are just as susceptible to search, if not more so, as what you keep with you. I think the reality we have to grapple with, regardless of rights violated, is that if you want to cross a nation border, it's best to assume that all nations involved will end up with a copy of all the data (hopefully encrypted) you move across that border. In the face of that scenario, how do we proceed?
  - mises 7y ago
    It's much easier for a policeman to demand the password to decrypt data when he has you in custody at customs than when it is searched by the mailman. You're confusing "not perfect" with "not good". There's an old saying: when outrunning a bear, you don't have to be the fastest guy, you just have to be faster than the slowest guy.
    - chii 7y ago
      > It's much easier for a policeman to demand the password to decrypt data when he has you in custody at customs than when it is searched by the mailman. is that really true? I would expect that they can just perform hardware tampering when you're not present when searching in mailed items, but given that customs might use racial profiling to target you at airport, you may be better off mailing the computer securely, such as using tamper-proof or tamper-evident stickers/bags.
      - michaelt 7y ago
        Dragnet demanding your password at the border is something we know they do - there are loads of witnesses saying they were asked for passwords at borders. Dragnet hardware tampering of electronics in the mail is not something we know they do. I've only seen two articles claiming evidence of physical tampering - like a hoax about Dell from 2005 [1] and Bloomberg's dodgy story about spy chips from last year [2] - neither of which seems truthy, and neither of which involved mail interdiction. (Of course, it's widely suspected mailed hardware can be tampered with, but most of the claims/speculation I've read has been about targeted tampering, not dragnet) [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/keyboard-loggers/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/keyboard-loggers/ [2] https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/04/bloomberg-spy-chip-murky-world-national-security-reporting/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/04/bloomberg-spy-chip-murky-w...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
pmorici 7y ago
If you are going to bother you might as well do something that will be effective.

BurningCycles 7y ago

Can't you just use a tool like 'shred' to securely delete the file(s) ?

dan-robertson 7y ago
The problem here is knowing where all the files are. Are you sure you could list all the places eg ms word stores cached copies of your document? And that you’d be able to overwrite the data from copies that have since been unlinked from the filesystem?
snuxoll 7y ago
Encryption is a better solution, always. It’s easier to forget a passphrase and render the key useless, especially if you’re using a SSD where the controller has no obligation to actually overwrite a cell that you’re trying to shred.
yepguy 7y ago
My understanding is that shred hasn't been reliable for many years now due to smarter and less predictable firmware in modern storage devices. Basically, you can't trust that your SSD deleted the data it said it did, or that it writes data to the place you told it.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  Even with spinning rust, a sector remap would keep the old data in the old spot
  - efreak 7y ago
    So far as I know, wiping free space is a feature that has been available for many years in free utility suites and even recovery software (CCleaner, etc). I believe it's also directly available in Windows' Disk Cleanup utility; on Linux you call just use dd to fill the disk. This isn't as secure as a multiple wipe, but it can also be done multiple times; on Linux you can alternately use tr or some such to tell dd to write ones instead of /dev/zero.