45 ms·

What predicts students’ drinking habits? How much they think others are drinking

122 points by rustoo 8y ago

k__ 8y ago
I'm in my thirties and cut down on alcohol. I didn't drink alone or often, just 2-3 nights a month and most of them it was only 2-3 beer, but sometimes it was quite much. Anyway, I'm dieting right now and had the impression that replacing alcohol with coke-zero at parties would cut down a few hundreds of kcals a month.
C1sc0cat 8y ago
Genetic predisposition? that's opening up a can of worms. "Begorah is it cos I am irish" - Adopts stereotypical fighting drunkard pose.
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  First law of Behaviour Genetics: All human behavioural traits are heritable. https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-genetics/ https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-genet...
  - smt88 8y ago
    And then further down the page: > ”All traits are heritable” is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. So I guess it's not a law after all.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    First law of Behaviour Genetics: All human behavioural traits are heritable. (As noted elsewhere, almost all.) I was watching an Aydin Paladin video, and IIRC, she mentioned one study which found that genetic factors explained 41% of variation in infidelity and 38% variation in number of sexual partners. https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028 https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028 Cherkas, L. F., Oelsner, E. C., Mak, Y. T., Valdes, A., & Spector, T. D. (2004). Genetic influences on female infidelity and number of sexual partners in humans: a linkage and association study of the role of the vasopressin receptor gene (AVPR1A). Twin Research and Human Genetics, 7(6), 649-658. Another citation from that video: Garver-Apgar, C. E., Gangestad, S. W., Thornhill, R., Miller, R. D., & Olp, J. J. (2006). Major histocompatibility complex alleles, sexual responsivity, and unfaithfulness in romantic couples. Psychological Science, 17(10), 830-835. So much for the ideology of the Blank Slate. Atheism of the 2000's got this much right: Human beings are conscious and sentient, which is wonderful, but we are also animals subject to biology. That's just messy reality, and we'd best deal with it.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex? For example, these genetic factors could correlate with people whose hereditary upbringing was in a more promiscuous culture, but not necessarily causing it. Edit: Your first citation says they didn't find a link between infidelity and genetics, but did with environment.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex? It was a twin study entirely within the UK. Edit: Your first citation says they didn't find a link between infidelity and genetics, but did with environment. I don't think that's correct. I think you are willfully reading what you want, and your paraphrase leaves out a key detail. Our findings demonstrate that infidelity and number of sexual partners are both under moderate genetic influence (41% and 38% heritable, respectively) and the genetic correlation between these two traits is strong (47%). Conversely, attitudes towards infidelity are driven by shared and unique environmental, but not genetic, influences. The study found that environmental factors shape attitude towards infidelity, but "infidelity and number of sexual partners are both under moderate genetic influence." https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be744805dc00e8bfee5e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be7448...
- mruts 8y ago
  It may not be politically correct, but it's true. Genetic factors have a huge influence in regards to addiction, metabolism, diseases, etc.
  - trevyn 8y ago
    For alcohol use, huge in comparison to peer influence, though?
    - mruts 8y ago
      If both are statistically significant factors, I see nothing wrong with talking about both.
  - camjohnson26 8y ago
    Genetics can impact your personality but that doesn’t mean you don’t have will power. If all behavior is genetic then eugenics should be morally justifiable since you can improve humanity by cleaning up the gene pool.
    - cm2012 8y ago
      Will power is inheritable.
      - camjohnson26 8y ago
        You control your willpower.
        cm2012 8y ago
        You control the things you do. Willpower is a trait like IQ or being tall.
        camjohnson26 8y ago
        Which is exactly what I said. Genetics determine how much willpower you have, then you control what you do with it.
- jowday 8y ago
  There's a definite genetic component to addiction and alcoholism. Anecdotally, people seem increasingly aware of this - several friends of mine who have alcoholics in their family abstain from drinking entirely knowing they're predisposed to developing a problem.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >"Begorah is it cos I am irish" - Adopts stereotypical fighting drunkard pose. "Connor, chill out. You've had 26 beers." "You're damn right I have and I'm gonna have six more"
bluedino 8y ago
As a 'binge drinker' of 20 years, I'll chime in: Almost all of the time, I drink at the pace of my drinking partners. "Hey man, want another beer?" "Need another beer?" "You're drinking slow, catch up!" "Here's some shots" On the rare occaisons that I drink on my own, I have 2-3 beers, I tend to enjoy them a little more. But in a group, I go at the group's pace. Part of this is because it's very hard to enjoy the company of people who are much drunker than you. And they won't enjoy you if you are much drunker than them, so you have to all be on the same level.
- smt88 8y ago
  When my friends get together, they all drink at their own pace. Some will have 8 drinks by the end of the night, some will have 2. This was the case in high school and college for me, as well. My point is that anecdotes are not data and have no bearing on the truth of the original article.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    It's a bit tautological, but the idea is that the very definition of "not on the same level" includes being annoying/boring to the other people around you. It could be less about literally 1:1 matching, and more about attitude and enthusiasm matching.
- taurath 8y ago
  The group reinforcement thing becomes a problem as people get into their 30s - often you’ll find that your heavy drinking friends start to drop off as they get more responsibilities or health concerns, and new ones come in. Eventually you look up and many of your friends are alcoholics.
  - ImprovedSilence 8y ago
    Well then stop drinking with kids and go get some responsibilities. Be the one that drops off the heavy drinking train.
stcredzero 8y ago
My wife and I cannot drink to keep pace. She's done after 1/4th of a drink. I'm done after 2. The one time she let her coworkers pressure her to finish a drink, I had to stay up with her in the bathroom.
bitwize 8y ago
Scientific confirmation of well-known folk wisdom. (Not a bad thing.) I remember being in college and hearing "I'll go shot for shot" and "I can drink you under the table", etc. Outdrinking the other person was a badge of... adulthood? Maybe? I don't know. I never got it myself. I tried drinking to excess and the first lesson I learned was my limits, best summarized by the old adage "one tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor". The experience was unpleasant enough to put me off consuming more than two drinks a night.
opportune 8y ago
Then once you turn 21, drinking a lot very quickly becomes less cool and more sad
- beenBoutIT 8y ago
  Our BS drinking laws artificially elevate alcohol's badass status among the under 21 crowd. Rolling back the drinking age to the modern world standard of 16 would drastically reduce student drinking by equating it with kid behavior. Nobody's interested in doing highschool shit in college.
  - max76 8y ago
    > Rolling back the drinking age to the modern world standard of 16 would drastically reduce student drinking by equating it with kid behavior. Nobody's interested in doing highschool shit in college. Wouldn't this just move student drinking from college to highschool, not reduce overall student drinking? I don't think it's a good idea to having the driving and drinking age be the same. I'm sure lots of parents of teenagers would be very upset if their children could legally drink.
    - bliblah 8y ago
      I come from latin america and my family let me drink at family events under supervision at 16. Around 17-18 I went out to parties and never came back home super wasted. Nowadays I barely drink. Seems to me if you treat your kid with respect and guide them they can be responsible adults. Also mind you that the legal smoking age in the US is 18 and pretty much everyone agrees that it is much worse than drinking.
      - max76 8y ago
        I think the differences between Latin America drinking cultures and Untied States is much bigger than just the legal drinking age. Changing that one variable won't make a big impact IMO.
terryschiavo22 8y ago
There's no way that parent drinking behavior isn't a strong indicator too.
- slfnflctd 8y ago
  I've seen that one go both ways, it would be great to have more data. Anecdotal, but a larger number of people than I expected have told me they don't drink - or set extremely low limits for themselves - as a result of parental behavior which led to a disgust response.
- vowelless 8y ago
  As someone who grew up in nation where alcohol was basically banned, and into a family that never touched alcohol, I can say that parents drinking habit is strongly inversely correlated with some people’s drinking habits :). I bonded with an ex Mormon over a whole bottle of scotch over this once.
duxup 8y ago
When I go to college football games I drive by the fraternities on my way to park. I'll see quite a few folks sitting on the front lawn seriously messed up. Usually a buddy or girlfriend standing or sitting with them keeping an eye on them. I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks drink them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the sad drunk bars / folks at home as you age. I didn't get it when I was college, I don't get it now, that doesn't look fun. They must think their classmates are drinking a lot, but it's pretty clear it's not nearly as much as they think, as most of their classmates seem capable of carrying on a conversation and standing up... meanwhile they are not.
- throw_away 8y ago
  > I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks drink them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the sad drunk bars / folks at home as you age. Survivorship bias
- bylfdsa 8y ago
  Where they're at when they're out isn't fun, but part of the journey there is, and young people pushing their limits, particularly when they don't know them well doesn't work out well.
bongo662 8y ago
I went to an SEC school and did the whole fraternity thing during college, which involved drinking to excess way to much fueled by the fact that living in a fraternity house with 45 other guys who also wanted to drink that much as well as the rampant drug use. It definitly had a negative impact on my health, grades, and focus on school work and im glad that post college ive cut back to 1 night of moderate drinking with friends on the weekend however the habits picked up in college still plague a good amount of my friends from college and Im worried about their longevity. Its a particuarly hard issue to solve even moreso in a alcohol fueled envirionment like a frat where the freshmen joining look up to the sophmores,juniors and seniors who all have this same binge drinking mentality and the cycle continues. Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.
- b_tterc_p 8y ago
  Is that really your environment though? I can’t really imagine myself just falling into that culture by accident. I have to imagine you intended to seek it out, no? Not intending any accusations here.
  - bongo662 8y ago
    Youre correct its definitly something I sought out and its something you can always drop out of too so I actively chose to stay involved as does everyone else in the organization
- rjzzleep 8y ago
  > Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit. Yeah. I don't believe that for a second. Much more interesting is how well you fare against peer pressure, how much of a social animal you aim to be, and whether your family was doing it. If we could argue like that I would just argue the exact opposite based on my experience. The forbidden fruit we seem to have in common. The distinguishing factor here seems to be that you were in a toxic environment and I was busy pestering people on IRC. There was a lot more porn available in that environment, so that's my burden to bear. Let's at least stop pretending that if there were no limits on anything in the world, everything would be great and amazing.
maxxxxx 8y ago
This makes sense to me from my experience. When I was around 18 a lot of people told stories of all the drinking (and sex) they did. I felt quite some pressure to drink more because of that. Later I found out that a lot of these stories were vastly exaggerated. It's pretty sad that people feel the need to brag about destructive behavior like doing but that's the way it is.
- fenesiistvan 8y ago
  I can confirm these people :) Most of interesting things in my life happened when I was drunk. People are boring without drugs...
teekert 8y ago
Everybody should try not drinking for 1 month a year... I did it for about 2 years (non-stop). It's pretty hard and it really feels poorly accepted to the point that people didn't ask me you out because I didn't drink (meaning I was not fun, and tbh I can imagine it's less fun for drunk people with a sober person). Anyway, It was quite an eye opener, also, the times I see this behaviour in series and movies also became a shock: "OMG I have an emotionally hard time! Grab the bottle, start slammin', look at me being all depressed but still cool lookin' like a Marlboro cowboy!". It's so deep in our culture.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  I recently stopped drinking (it's been ~4 months) because I drank >1 bottle of wine every day for the last 3 to 4 years and I was worried I'll end up being an alcoholic or damage my liver. I'll be honest: alcohol is an amazing drug. I know that it's very harmful but no other drug gives me the enjoyment and calmness alcohol gives. Anyway, I stopped drinking now. When I hang out with my friends and they're drunk I usually try to get high so I'm not sober. I don't like weed as much as getting drunk so I can't get very intoxicated, just a little buzz. But yeah, the social aspect of intoxication is huge! Since weed is legal where I live (MA) I use it as a "social lubricant" which I suppose is a safe way to use drugs in general. My problem with alcohol was that I liked it too much and basically spent most of my time outside of work drunk since it was fun. I don't think I was addicted because when I stopped drinking cold turkey, I didn't experience anything bad...
  - teekert 8y ago
    I've seen 1 person really losing her family to alcohol, become completely apathetic and I almost lost another. It's strange that it so normal, imagine someone invented it today "Look, what I have, yeah messes with DNA (it's a registered CMR in some countries), but man it's a nice social lubricant." That said, I enjoy alcohol too and would be offended by regulation (but I'm also "offended" by most drugs being regulated).
  - WhompingWindows 8y ago
    The Eleven Symptoms of Alcohol Use Disorder -Alcohol is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended. -There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use. -A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain alcohol, use alcohol, or recover from its effects. -Craving, or a strong desire or urge to use alcohol. -Recurrent alcohol use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home. -Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol. -Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of alcohol use. -Recurrent alcohol use in situations in which it is physically hazardous. -Alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by alcohol. -Tolerance, as defined by either of the following: a) A need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect b) A markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol. Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol (refer to criteria A and B of the criteria set for alcohol withdrawal) b) Alcohol (or a closely related substance, such as a benzodiazepine) is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms. The presence of at least 2 of these symptoms indicates an alcohol use disorder (AUD). The severity of an AUD is graded mild, moderate, or severe: Mild: The presence of 2 to 3 symptoms. Moderate: The presence of 4 to 5 symptoms. Severe: The presence of 6 or more symptoms. Conclusion: If You Meet 2 of the 11 Criteria for AUD, Reach Out and Ask for Help
mhb 8y ago
Do Children in France Have a Healthier Relationship With Alcohol? https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-france-have-a-healthier-relationship-with-alcohol/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-fra...
bliblah 8y ago
Having come from Latin america and studied in a US college, it's always jarring just how much students in the US drink. Don't get me wrong, whenever I went back home we had a few drinks and some who definitely had bad habits. But US Students were just animals, entire bottles of liquor for a single person, keg stands, passing out for hours just to do it again later tonight. Frats are definitely the main culprit of spreading this unhealthy lifestyle but I also find that having the drinking age be so high (21 in the US) really gives kids this insane pressure to show off or glamorizes it as an "adult thing" to do. My family let have a few drinks once I hit 16 during family events and was regularly going out at 18 without ever feeling the need to get wasted or having peer pressure of drinking. I learned my limits early on and rarely got wasted since it just didn't appeal to me. Meanwhile, the frat parties were the only way to meet girls on campus and gladly supplied alcohol to anyone who paid. Definitely a recipe for disaster and after a few mishaps I just skipped out on them entirely. I think they should just lower the age and put the onus on parents to guide their kids toward better drinking habits, smoking is way worse for both you and those around you and the age is 18.
- grenoire 8y ago
  Having seen students in Europe and from the US, agreed. It definitely helps to be lower.
  - aidenn0 8y ago
    I did an exchange program (from the US) to Germany, and I did notice parents having a moderating effect on drinking, but then there was an overnight party at the end of the schoolyear, which meant kids weren't going home to their parents. Drinking wise, it was basically identical to most parties I saw in college in the US, except the kids were 16-17 instead of 18-19.
    - beenBoutIT 8y ago
      Pair that with increasing the driving age to 18 or 21 and you'd have a massive reduction in college drinking deaths and teen driving deaths.
ben7799 8y ago
I did the fraternity thing in college as others have mentioned.. I am an extremely moderate drinker and have been ever since I finished college. Sometimes as little as 1 drink a month, and in periods where I am actively working towards a sports/fitness goal I might go months without drinking any alcohol. I definitely drank to excess in college but never to a huge degree or constantly. Even in a fraternity that is pretty wild there are a spectrum of students. I finished school with a 3.7 GPA, though I would say the fraternity impacted my grades, they might have been even higher. But almost any social activity would have had an effect. At my school the social scene was pretty dead outside of greek life. - Fraternities & sororities generally have risk management plans/training these days. I am not sure I think they are more dangerous/less responsible than underground/unorganized social situations on a college campus. Fraternity parties often have alumni supervision. Even 20 years ago when I was in school those parties were registered an inspected. House parties, off campus parties, hidden dorm parties were far riskier. - The European model of letting people drink younger often gets brought up in these discussions. The only problem I have with that is Europeans on average drink far more alcohol than Americans throughout adulthood. I am not sure I believe the kids are more responsible in Europe either when you consider things like Alcoholic drinks marketed to high school students that would never fly here. - The massive fraternity parties are getting shut down these days on campuses. My alma mater has banned all drinking on campus and at fraternities/sororities/social clubs on and off campus, even for members/alumni who are 21. The weird thing here is they put a loophole in for sports teams... athletes who are 21 and alumni can drink at sports team events.. ridiculous. - Some of the largest national social fraternities & sororities are requiring all chapters to ban alcohol among members now
btrettel 8y ago
As a lifelong teetotaler, one thing I've consistently found strange is how much other people seem concerned by me not drinking at social events. This seems consistent with the conclusions of the study. Some people want to make sure that I'm "having fun". Apparently "having fun" is a euphemism for drinking. No matter how many times I tell them that yes, I am enjoying myself, this doesn't satisfy some people. Some people seem concerned that because everyone else is drinking, if someone does something stupid then I'll remember it. I don't know what to say about this other than that I don't particularly care if you do something stupid as long as it's not dangerous. And then there are the people who believe that my not drinking means that I judge those who do. I don't care if you drink any more than if you put ketchup on your fries. Sure, if you drank a gallon of ketchup I'd be concerned, but most people don't, so I'm not concerned. There are those who'll comment on me as if I'm some sort of oddity. Well, I guess I am, and this is never said as a bad thing in my experience, so I'll take it. Admittedly, I'm old enough that most people don't care, but I'm still surprised by those who do.
- hmate9 8y ago
  From my experience people are not concerned about me not drinking, but rather they’re extremely surprised that such a thing exists and want to know the reason why. The answer “because I enjoy myself without it and I don’t want to get drunk” only gets accepted about 50% of the time. The other 50% people start speculating odd reasons as to why I’m not drinking :)
  - btrettel 8y ago
    Yes, I'm often asked about why too. I used to be bothered by this because (like you) I'd find that people often don't accept my answers. Right now I don't give a clear answer (e.g. Q: "Why don't you drink?" A: "Because I don't want to.") because many people who ask don't seem interested in my reasons beyond using the reasons as an opener for a sales pitch about drinking. E.g., if I say that I don't like the taste, they'll insist that I haven't tried the right drink yet, sometimes going as far as to recommend a particular drink. If someone said they didn't like mayonnaise it would be particularly weird for someone else to insist that they try a particular type of mayonnaise, but the same logic apparently doesn't apply for drinking. There's also the problem that many drinkers believe non-drinkers judge them, and I feel that if I gave some of my reasons, the drinkers would feel judged.
rjf72 8y ago
Studies like this should immediately make one remember something about psychology. The replication crisis has devastated any credibility in psychology. And social psychology, as this study is part of, is the worst hit. The replication rate for social psychology studies is currently hovering around 25% [1]. And unlike psychology studies, that result can and has been replicated. What that means is that if you see any social psychology study - you would be much more accurately informed if you assumed that what it 'discovered' was false. So back to this study. Let's imagine some alternative hypothesis. People tend to overestimate the representativeness of their own personal experience. People extrapolate their own personal experience, which in turn is going to be driven by their own behaviors/views/etc, to much wider segments of the population than they actually apply to. If somebody engages in substantial drinking, they're going to overestimate the normality of that behavior. And similar for those that engage in minimal drinking. And all of this is even more true when you're talking about young college aged kids. This hypothesis also fully explains otherwise inexplicable 'discoveries' of this study. For instance the study found no connection between the drinking habits of the dorms people lived in and their own independent usage. That contradicts their hypothesis but it was, of course, simply hand-waved away. But the real problem with this hypothesis is that it doesn't lead to new research, doesn't sound exciting, and likely would be difficult to publish. Publication generally entails novelty, and I'm certain this effect has been extensively studied and reported upon elsewhere. So instead we get clickbait under the guise of science. [1] - https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-depletion/ https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-depleti...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Maria_Halsey 8y ago
Vanity and peer pressure seem to the be fit in this. Mostly peer pressure.
KateSp 8y ago
Oh my, don't show me that. My son is going to college next year. I don't believe that the situation with alcohol is so awful. I'm sure such habits are taken from his surrounding while growing up.

122 points by rustoo 8y ago

k__ 8y ago

I'm in my thirties and cut down on alcohol. I didn't drink alone or often, just 2-3 nights a month and most of them it was only 2-3 beer, but sometimes it was quite much. Anyway, I'm dieting right now and had the impression that replacing alcohol with coke-zero at parties would cut down a few hundreds of kcals a month.

C1sc0cat 8y ago

Genetic predisposition? that's opening up a can of worms. "Begorah is it cos I am irish" - Adopts stereotypical fighting drunkard pose.

BurningFrog 8y ago
First law of Behaviour Genetics: All human behavioural traits are heritable. https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-genetics/ https://teammccallum.wordpress.com/3-laws-of-behaviour-genet...
- smt88 8y ago
  And then further down the page: > ”All traits are heritable” is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. So I guess it's not a law after all.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  First law of Behaviour Genetics: All human behavioural traits are heritable. (As noted elsewhere, almost all.) I was watching an Aydin Paladin video, and IIRC, she mentioned one study which found that genetic factors explained 41% of variation in infidelity and 38% variation in number of sexual partners. https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028 https://youtu.be/KET2JncpJ7o?t=1028 Cherkas, L. F., Oelsner, E. C., Mak, Y. T., Valdes, A., & Spector, T. D. (2004). Genetic influences on female infidelity and number of sexual partners in humans: a linkage and association study of the role of the vasopressin receptor gene (AVPR1A). Twin Research and Human Genetics, 7(6), 649-658. Another citation from that video: Garver-Apgar, C. E., Gangestad, S. W., Thornhill, R., Miller, R. D., & Olp, J. J. (2006). Major histocompatibility complex alleles, sexual responsivity, and unfaithfulness in romantic couples. Psychological Science, 17(10), 830-835. So much for the ideology of the Blank Slate. Atheism of the 2000's got this much right: Human beings are conscious and sentient, which is wonderful, but we are also animals subject to biology. That's just messy reality, and we'd best deal with it.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex? For example, these genetic factors could correlate with people whose hereditary upbringing was in a more promiscuous culture, but not necessarily causing it. Edit: Your first citation says they didn't find a link between infidelity and genetics, but did with environment.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Did they control for regional cultural attitudes towards sex? It was a twin study entirely within the UK. Edit: Your first citation says they didn't find a link between infidelity and genetics, but did with environment. I don't think that's correct. I think you are willfully reading what you want, and your paraphrase leaves out a key detail. Our findings demonstrate that infidelity and number of sexual partners are both under moderate genetic influence (41% and 38% heritable, respectively) and the genetic correlation between these two traits is strong (47%). Conversely, attitudes towards infidelity are driven by shared and unique environmental, but not genetic, influences. The study found that environmental factors shape attitude towards infidelity, but "infidelity and number of sexual partners are both under moderate genetic influence." https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be744805dc00e8bfee5e.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/39d8/8c23b2535946c1a6be7448...
mruts 8y ago
It may not be politically correct, but it's true. Genetic factors have a huge influence in regards to addiction, metabolism, diseases, etc.
- trevyn 8y ago
  For alcohol use, huge in comparison to peer influence, though?
  - mruts 8y ago
    If both are statistically significant factors, I see nothing wrong with talking about both.
- camjohnson26 8y ago
  Genetics can impact your personality but that doesn’t mean you don’t have will power. If all behavior is genetic then eugenics should be morally justifiable since you can improve humanity by cleaning up the gene pool.
  - cm2012 8y ago
    Will power is inheritable.
    - camjohnson26 8y ago
      You control your willpower.
      - cm2012 8y ago
        You control the things you do. Willpower is a trait like IQ or being tall.
        camjohnson26 8y ago
        Which is exactly what I said. Genetics determine how much willpower you have, then you control what you do with it.
jowday 8y ago
There's a definite genetic component to addiction and alcoholism. Anecdotally, people seem increasingly aware of this - several friends of mine who have alcoholics in their family abstain from drinking entirely knowing they're predisposed to developing a problem.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>"Begorah is it cos I am irish" - Adopts stereotypical fighting drunkard pose. "Connor, chill out. You've had 26 beers." "You're damn right I have and I'm gonna have six more"

bluedino 8y ago

As a 'binge drinker' of 20 years, I'll chime in: Almost all of the time, I drink at the pace of my drinking partners. "Hey man, want another beer?" "Need another beer?" "You're drinking slow, catch up!" "Here's some shots" On the rare occaisons that I drink on my own, I have 2-3 beers, I tend to enjoy them a little more. But in a group, I go at the group's pace. Part of this is because it's very hard to enjoy the company of people who are much drunker than you. And they won't enjoy you if you are much drunker than them, so you have to all be on the same level.

smt88 8y ago
When my friends get together, they all drink at their own pace. Some will have 8 drinks by the end of the night, some will have 2. This was the case in high school and college for me, as well. My point is that anecdotes are not data and have no bearing on the truth of the original article.
- diminoten 8y ago
  It's a bit tautological, but the idea is that the very definition of "not on the same level" includes being annoying/boring to the other people around you. It could be less about literally 1:1 matching, and more about attitude and enthusiasm matching.
taurath 8y ago
The group reinforcement thing becomes a problem as people get into their 30s - often you’ll find that your heavy drinking friends start to drop off as they get more responsibilities or health concerns, and new ones come in. Eventually you look up and many of your friends are alcoholics.
- ImprovedSilence 8y ago
  Well then stop drinking with kids and go get some responsibilities. Be the one that drops off the heavy drinking train.

stcredzero 8y ago

My wife and I cannot drink to keep pace. She's done after 1/4th of a drink. I'm done after 2. The one time she let her coworkers pressure her to finish a drink, I had to stay up with her in the bathroom.

bitwize 8y ago

Scientific confirmation of well-known folk wisdom. (Not a bad thing.) I remember being in college and hearing "I'll go shot for shot" and "I can drink you under the table", etc. Outdrinking the other person was a badge of... adulthood? Maybe? I don't know. I never got it myself. I tried drinking to excess and the first lesson I learned was my limits, best summarized by the old adage "one tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor". The experience was unpleasant enough to put me off consuming more than two drinks a night.

opportune 8y ago

Then once you turn 21, drinking a lot very quickly becomes less cool and more sad

beenBoutIT 8y ago
Our BS drinking laws artificially elevate alcohol's badass status among the under 21 crowd. Rolling back the drinking age to the modern world standard of 16 would drastically reduce student drinking by equating it with kid behavior. Nobody's interested in doing highschool shit in college.
- max76 8y ago
  > Rolling back the drinking age to the modern world standard of 16 would drastically reduce student drinking by equating it with kid behavior. Nobody's interested in doing highschool shit in college. Wouldn't this just move student drinking from college to highschool, not reduce overall student drinking? I don't think it's a good idea to having the driving and drinking age be the same. I'm sure lots of parents of teenagers would be very upset if their children could legally drink.
  - bliblah 8y ago
    I come from latin america and my family let me drink at family events under supervision at 16. Around 17-18 I went out to parties and never came back home super wasted. Nowadays I barely drink. Seems to me if you treat your kid with respect and guide them they can be responsible adults. Also mind you that the legal smoking age in the US is 18 and pretty much everyone agrees that it is much worse than drinking.
    - max76 8y ago
      I think the differences between Latin America drinking cultures and Untied States is much bigger than just the legal drinking age. Changing that one variable won't make a big impact IMO.

terryschiavo22 8y ago

There's no way that parent drinking behavior isn't a strong indicator too.

slfnflctd 8y ago
I've seen that one go both ways, it would be great to have more data. Anecdotal, but a larger number of people than I expected have told me they don't drink - or set extremely low limits for themselves - as a result of parental behavior which led to a disgust response.
vowelless 8y ago
As someone who grew up in nation where alcohol was basically banned, and into a family that never touched alcohol, I can say that parents drinking habit is strongly inversely correlated with some people’s drinking habits :). I bonded with an ex Mormon over a whole bottle of scotch over this once.

duxup 8y ago

When I go to college football games I drive by the fraternities on my way to park. I'll see quite a few folks sitting on the front lawn seriously messed up. Usually a buddy or girlfriend standing or sitting with them keeping an eye on them. I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks drink them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the sad drunk bars / folks at home as you age. I didn't get it when I was college, I don't get it now, that doesn't look fun. They must think their classmates are drinking a lot, but it's pretty clear it's not nearly as much as they think, as most of their classmates seem capable of carrying on a conversation and standing up... meanwhile they are not.

throw_away 8y ago
> I'm older so at the old people bars or parties, you just don't see folks drink them self into that state. I assume that sort of filters out to the sad drunk bars / folks at home as you age. Survivorship bias
bylfdsa 8y ago
Where they're at when they're out isn't fun, but part of the journey there is, and young people pushing their limits, particularly when they don't know them well doesn't work out well.

bongo662 8y ago

I went to an SEC school and did the whole fraternity thing during college, which involved drinking to excess way to much fueled by the fact that living in a fraternity house with 45 other guys who also wanted to drink that much as well as the rampant drug use. It definitly had a negative impact on my health, grades, and focus on school work and im glad that post college ive cut back to 1 night of moderate drinking with friends on the weekend however the habits picked up in college still plague a good amount of my friends from college and Im worried about their longevity. Its a particuarly hard issue to solve even moreso in a alcohol fueled envirionment like a frat where the freshmen joining look up to the sophmores,juniors and seniors who all have this same binge drinking mentality and the cycle continues. Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit.

b_tterc_p 8y ago
Is that really your environment though? I can’t really imagine myself just falling into that culture by accident. I have to imagine you intended to seek it out, no? Not intending any accusations here.
- bongo662 8y ago
  Youre correct its definitly something I sought out and its something you can always drop out of too so I actively chose to stay involved as does everyone else in the organization
rjzzleep 8y ago
> Maybe the normalisation of alcohol at a younger age would help reduce it as it wouldnt seem like such a forbidden fruit. Yeah. I don't believe that for a second. Much more interesting is how well you fare against peer pressure, how much of a social animal you aim to be, and whether your family was doing it. If we could argue like that I would just argue the exact opposite based on my experience. The forbidden fruit we seem to have in common. The distinguishing factor here seems to be that you were in a toxic environment and I was busy pestering people on IRC. There was a lot more porn available in that environment, so that's my burden to bear. Let's at least stop pretending that if there were no limits on anything in the world, everything would be great and amazing.

maxxxxx 8y ago

This makes sense to me from my experience. When I was around 18 a lot of people told stories of all the drinking (and sex) they did. I felt quite some pressure to drink more because of that. Later I found out that a lot of these stories were vastly exaggerated. It's pretty sad that people feel the need to brag about destructive behavior like doing but that's the way it is.

fenesiistvan 8y ago
I can confirm these people :) Most of interesting things in my life happened when I was drunk. People are boring without drugs...

teekert 8y ago

Everybody should try not drinking for 1 month a year... I did it for about 2 years (non-stop). It's pretty hard and it really feels poorly accepted to the point that people didn't ask me you out because I didn't drink (meaning I was not fun, and tbh I can imagine it's less fun for drunk people with a sober person). Anyway, It was quite an eye opener, also, the times I see this behaviour in series and movies also became a shock: "OMG I have an emotionally hard time! Grab the bottle, start slammin', look at me being all depressed but still cool lookin' like a Marlboro cowboy!". It's so deep in our culture.

gnulinux 8y ago
I recently stopped drinking (it's been ~4 months) because I drank >1 bottle of wine every day for the last 3 to 4 years and I was worried I'll end up being an alcoholic or damage my liver. I'll be honest: alcohol is an amazing drug. I know that it's very harmful but no other drug gives me the enjoyment and calmness alcohol gives. Anyway, I stopped drinking now. When I hang out with my friends and they're drunk I usually try to get high so I'm not sober. I don't like weed as much as getting drunk so I can't get very intoxicated, just a little buzz. But yeah, the social aspect of intoxication is huge! Since weed is legal where I live (MA) I use it as a "social lubricant" which I suppose is a safe way to use drugs in general. My problem with alcohol was that I liked it too much and basically spent most of my time outside of work drunk since it was fun. I don't think I was addicted because when I stopped drinking cold turkey, I didn't experience anything bad...
- teekert 8y ago
  I've seen 1 person really losing her family to alcohol, become completely apathetic and I almost lost another. It's strange that it so normal, imagine someone invented it today "Look, what I have, yeah messes with DNA (it's a registered CMR in some countries), but man it's a nice social lubricant." That said, I enjoy alcohol too and would be offended by regulation (but I'm also "offended" by most drugs being regulated).
- WhompingWindows 8y ago
  The Eleven Symptoms of Alcohol Use Disorder -Alcohol is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended. -There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use. -A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain alcohol, use alcohol, or recover from its effects. -Craving, or a strong desire or urge to use alcohol. -Recurrent alcohol use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home. -Continued alcohol use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol. -Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of alcohol use. -Recurrent alcohol use in situations in which it is physically hazardous. -Alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by alcohol. -Tolerance, as defined by either of the following: a) A need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect b) A markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol. Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol (refer to criteria A and B of the criteria set for alcohol withdrawal) b) Alcohol (or a closely related substance, such as a benzodiazepine) is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms. The presence of at least 2 of these symptoms indicates an alcohol use disorder (AUD). The severity of an AUD is graded mild, moderate, or severe: Mild: The presence of 2 to 3 symptoms. Moderate: The presence of 4 to 5 symptoms. Severe: The presence of 6 or more symptoms. Conclusion: If You Meet 2 of the 11 Criteria for AUD, Reach Out and Ask for Help

mhb 8y ago

Do Children in France Have a Healthier Relationship With Alcohol? https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-france-have-a-healthier-relationship-with-alcohol/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/do-children-in-fra...

bliblah 8y ago

Having come from Latin america and studied in a US college, it's always jarring just how much students in the US drink. Don't get me wrong, whenever I went back home we had a few drinks and some who definitely had bad habits. But US Students were just animals, entire bottles of liquor for a single person, keg stands, passing out for hours just to do it again later tonight. Frats are definitely the main culprit of spreading this unhealthy lifestyle but I also find that having the drinking age be so high (21 in the US) really gives kids this insane pressure to show off or glamorizes it as an "adult thing" to do. My family let have a few drinks once I hit 16 during family events and was regularly going out at 18 without ever feeling the need to get wasted or having peer pressure of drinking. I learned my limits early on and rarely got wasted since it just didn't appeal to me. Meanwhile, the frat parties were the only way to meet girls on campus and gladly supplied alcohol to anyone who paid. Definitely a recipe for disaster and after a few mishaps I just skipped out on them entirely. I think they should just lower the age and put the onus on parents to guide their kids toward better drinking habits, smoking is way worse for both you and those around you and the age is 18.

grenoire 8y ago
Having seen students in Europe and from the US, agreed. It definitely helps to be lower.
- aidenn0 8y ago
  I did an exchange program (from the US) to Germany, and I did notice parents having a moderating effect on drinking, but then there was an overnight party at the end of the schoolyear, which meant kids weren't going home to their parents. Drinking wise, it was basically identical to most parties I saw in college in the US, except the kids were 16-17 instead of 18-19.
  - beenBoutIT 8y ago
    Pair that with increasing the driving age to 18 or 21 and you'd have a massive reduction in college drinking deaths and teen driving deaths.

ben7799 8y ago

I did the fraternity thing in college as others have mentioned.. I am an extremely moderate drinker and have been ever since I finished college. Sometimes as little as 1 drink a month, and in periods where I am actively working towards a sports/fitness goal I might go months without drinking any alcohol. I definitely drank to excess in college but never to a huge degree or constantly. Even in a fraternity that is pretty wild there are a spectrum of students. I finished school with a 3.7 GPA, though I would say the fraternity impacted my grades, they might have been even higher. But almost any social activity would have had an effect. At my school the social scene was pretty dead outside of greek life. - Fraternities & sororities generally have risk management plans/training these days. I am not sure I think they are more dangerous/less responsible than underground/unorganized social situations on a college campus. Fraternity parties often have alumni supervision. Even 20 years ago when I was in school those parties were registered an inspected. House parties, off campus parties, hidden dorm parties were far riskier. - The European model of letting people drink younger often gets brought up in these discussions. The only problem I have with that is Europeans on average drink far more alcohol than Americans throughout adulthood. I am not sure I believe the kids are more responsible in Europe either when you consider things like Alcoholic drinks marketed to high school students that would never fly here. - The massive fraternity parties are getting shut down these days on campuses. My alma mater has banned all drinking on campus and at fraternities/sororities/social clubs on and off campus, even for members/alumni who are 21. The weird thing here is they put a loophole in for sports teams... athletes who are 21 and alumni can drink at sports team events.. ridiculous. - Some of the largest national social fraternities & sororities are requiring all chapters to ban alcohol among members now

btrettel 8y ago

As a lifelong teetotaler, one thing I've consistently found strange is how much other people seem concerned by me not drinking at social events. This seems consistent with the conclusions of the study. Some people want to make sure that I'm "having fun". Apparently "having fun" is a euphemism for drinking. No matter how many times I tell them that yes, I am enjoying myself, this doesn't satisfy some people. Some people seem concerned that because everyone else is drinking, if someone does something stupid then I'll remember it. I don't know what to say about this other than that I don't particularly care if you do something stupid as long as it's not dangerous. And then there are the people who believe that my not drinking means that I judge those who do. I don't care if you drink any more than if you put ketchup on your fries. Sure, if you drank a gallon of ketchup I'd be concerned, but most people don't, so I'm not concerned. There are those who'll comment on me as if I'm some sort of oddity. Well, I guess I am, and this is never said as a bad thing in my experience, so I'll take it. Admittedly, I'm old enough that most people don't care, but I'm still surprised by those who do.

hmate9 8y ago
From my experience people are not concerned about me not drinking, but rather they’re extremely surprised that such a thing exists and want to know the reason why. The answer “because I enjoy myself without it and I don’t want to get drunk” only gets accepted about 50% of the time. The other 50% people start speculating odd reasons as to why I’m not drinking :)
- btrettel 8y ago
  Yes, I'm often asked about why too. I used to be bothered by this because (like you) I'd find that people often don't accept my answers. Right now I don't give a clear answer (e.g. Q: "Why don't you drink?" A: "Because I don't want to.") because many people who ask don't seem interested in my reasons beyond using the reasons as an opener for a sales pitch about drinking. E.g., if I say that I don't like the taste, they'll insist that I haven't tried the right drink yet, sometimes going as far as to recommend a particular drink. If someone said they didn't like mayonnaise it would be particularly weird for someone else to insist that they try a particular type of mayonnaise, but the same logic apparently doesn't apply for drinking. There's also the problem that many drinkers believe non-drinkers judge them, and I feel that if I gave some of my reasons, the drinkers would feel judged.

rjf72 8y ago

Studies like this should immediately make one remember something about psychology. The replication crisis has devastated any credibility in psychology. And social psychology, as this study is part of, is the worst hit. The replication rate for social psychology studies is currently hovering around 25% [1]. And unlike psychology studies, that result can and has been replicated. What that means is that if you see any social psychology study - you would be much more accurately informed if you assumed that what it 'discovered' was false. So back to this study. Let's imagine some alternative hypothesis. People tend to overestimate the representativeness of their own personal experience. People extrapolate their own personal experience, which in turn is going to be driven by their own behaviors/views/etc, to much wider segments of the population than they actually apply to. If somebody engages in substantial drinking, they're going to overestimate the normality of that behavior. And similar for those that engage in minimal drinking. And all of this is even more true when you're talking about young college aged kids. This hypothesis also fully explains otherwise inexplicable 'discoveries' of this study. For instance the study found no connection between the drinking habits of the dorms people lived in and their own independent usage. That contradicts their hypothesis but it was, of course, simply hand-waved away. But the real problem with this hypothesis is that it doesn't lead to new research, doesn't sound exciting, and likely would be difficult to publish. Publication generally entails novelty, and I'm certain this effect has been extensively studied and reported upon elsewhere. So instead we get clickbait under the guise of science. [1] - https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-depletion/ https://replicationindex.com/2018/12/28/socpsytb-ego-depleti...

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Maria_Halsey 8y ago

Vanity and peer pressure seem to the be fit in this. Mostly peer pressure.

KateSp 8y ago

Oh my, don't show me that. My son is going to college next year. I don't believe that the situation with alcohol is so awful. I'm sure such habits are taken from his surrounding while growing up.