7 ms·

An algorithm wipes clean the criminal pasts of thousands

152 points by jjp 7y ago

nmstoker 7y ago
Minor point: the headline keeps it quite neutral as to whether this is a good thing or a mistake!
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  That's the point. You click on the article to find out.
- tracker1 7y ago
  That's probably a good thing overall... I mean neutral reporting and titling of articles. Too much reporting has become editorialized.
  - dahart 7y ago
    It is not a good thing in this case. The mere suggestion that it might be a mistake is editorializing, not being neutral to the article. I assume the comment above is being diplomatic in it's wording, but being "neutral" about whether these convictions were intentional or a mistake is not the same thing as neutral reporting. The topic of AI or algorithms making mistakes is not relevant to this article at all. It doesn't summarize the content, and the implication that it might be code run amok, in the title, is super misleading and undermines the positive things the people in the article are trying to do, both the politicians who did the right thing, and the efforts of Code For America.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      I wasn't just commenting in this case. I just mean in general, I'd prefer to see more neutral reporting and less editorializing.
kelchm 7y ago
Ah, yet another example of a switch statement being "AI".
- tw1010 7y ago
  I think that's fake code in the images ;)
  - chrismeller 7y ago
    Well it’s relevant to the story, so if it’s fake they put a surprising amount of effort into it...
  - arethuza 7y ago
    I was trying to work out what language it is - also switching on strings like that doesn't seem like a great idea.
    - denzil_correa 7y ago
      The project is hosted on Github [0], I'm not sure if the entire source code is available though. [0] https://github.com/codeforamerica/autoclearance https://github.com/codeforamerica/autoclearance
      - kevin_b_er 7y ago
        I would hope the entire source is available. We should always be wary of secret algorithmic decisions in court cases. The algorithm should be openly available for the public to see in the same way that the law is to be openly available.
      - RiverBanshee 7y ago
        Hi, engineer on the project here! That's an old version of the code that turned out to be too slow for the volume of records we need to process. The current version, which you see in the images from the article, is written in Golang.
denzil_correa 7y ago
The software mentioned in the article is Clear My Record [0]. [0] https://www.clearmyrecord.org https://www.clearmyrecord.org
triplee 7y ago
Wasn't this a maguffin in one of the Batman movies?
- syx 7y ago
  my thoughts exactly lol
dahart 7y ago
It sounds like Code For America is doing great things! That said, I wish the title wasn’t tech focused, since that’s not the real news here, and the red-herring implication that it might be some kind of algorithmic mistake is not just completely irrelevant, but subtly pushing the narrative that tech is out of control and fallible — the exact opposite of what happened here. Possibly the most important piece of summarizing information in this article is that a person in the position to do so actually decided to expunge records automatically, without waiting for those convicted to defend themselves. That’s pretty good news!
- true_tuna 7y ago
  Perhaps the word “helps” should be added to the headline to indicate that this is working as intended, and there’s a human in loop. It could be more clear that the tool is simply overcoming cumbersome process.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Seems almost intentional on BBC's part.
- zaksoup 7y ago
  Hey, I'm on the team at Code for America that built these tools. I really appreciate your comment because you're exactly right - the issue is and has always been one of policy and implementation. One of the core parts of our mission at CfA is to "show what's possible." In this case that means showing DAs and legislators that proactive record clearance is possible, simple, and good for communities. As other commenters are pointing out what we built amounts to a few "if" statements and an excel macro. They're right! That's a good thing too, because it means that governments are well positioned to follow our work without needing a high-cost technology partner or RFP. If you're in California and would like to ask your state reps and senators to support more legislation what would require proactive record clearance please take a look at AB 1076 and AB 972 (linked below). AB 1076: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB1076 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml... AB 972: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB972 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...
kwhitefoot 7y ago
Well done George Gascon!
erentz 7y ago
> "As part of the new law, those with prior convictions could now seek to have them struck off their record." I really don't get the thought process that leads to this kind of thing. "Let's make it so we have to have to implement a new system that people petition and we review to determine if we expunge their record." Versus: "The new standard is if the conviction was for X, and the person does not have Y on their record, (etc.), then the record of X conviction is considered expunged. And then behind the scenes automatically make it so."
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Not sure a record can be expunged without an order from a court targeting a specific conviction/record in the separated system in the US.
  - anticensor 7y ago
    Here in Turkey, we just disregard government records older than a certain age (80 years past crime for criminal records for instance). If a record is completely disregarded in proceedings, it could be separated into archive or expunged safely. It is just one more day job for your faithful computer.
    - rtkwe 7y ago
      That's not the case in the US. The only real automatic sealing is that the criminal records of kids are generally sealed.
      - anticensor 7y ago
        One of the reasons they can do that in Turkey is Turkish government is structured in such a way that most records of even local government organisations are required to be entered into central database. USA lacks that.
- turc1656 7y ago
  I could be wrong, but I believe the logic behind this is that the law is still paramount and because the person did in fact break the law (in this case a felony crime), they should have to apply for their conviction to be expunged and make the case in court. Because at the end of the day, while we might not consider what they did a big deal now, when they committed the act it was a serious crime. I also think they want manual reviews because there could be plenty of cases where they only charged the person with possession for personal use but might actually suspect them of worse crimes like intent to distribute or something else like possible gang affiliation. So I don't think they ever really want there to just be a blanket "oh there's no charge of a violent crime so we can wipe it" because they might be wiping the record of a known gang member or serious criminal but didn't have quite enough evidence to charge and convict them on the other offenses.
tobbe2064 7y ago
No break statements!
darepublic 7y ago
Is this really a sophisticated algorithm or simply a script or database update statement. Every piece of code as reported by the news these days is algorithmic or AI related
aportnoy 7y ago
Imagine having a switch fallthrough bug in code like this…
eric12 7y ago
Are you in need of WhatsApp account hack including 8 month ago conversations, images and deleted messages and it will be hacked remotely without the target knowledge, contact newworldhackers12@gmail.com you can also contact us for: Clearing of criminal records Boosting of credit scores Changing of school grades Hacking of other social media account like: Facebook Snapchat Instagram Twitter Emails Text messages etc.. Also text us on whatsapp: +79037124262

152 points by jjp 7y ago

nmstoker 7y ago

Minor point: the headline keeps it quite neutral as to whether this is a good thing or a mistake!

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
That's the point. You click on the article to find out.
tracker1 7y ago
That's probably a good thing overall... I mean neutral reporting and titling of articles. Too much reporting has become editorialized.
- dahart 7y ago
  It is not a good thing in this case. The mere suggestion that it might be a mistake is editorializing, not being neutral to the article. I assume the comment above is being diplomatic in it's wording, but being "neutral" about whether these convictions were intentional or a mistake is not the same thing as neutral reporting. The topic of AI or algorithms making mistakes is not relevant to this article at all. It doesn't summarize the content, and the implication that it might be code run amok, in the title, is super misleading and undermines the positive things the people in the article are trying to do, both the politicians who did the right thing, and the efforts of Code For America.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    I wasn't just commenting in this case. I just mean in general, I'd prefer to see more neutral reporting and less editorializing.

kelchm 7y ago

Ah, yet another example of a switch statement being "AI".

tw1010 7y ago
I think that's fake code in the images ;)
- chrismeller 7y ago
  Well it’s relevant to the story, so if it’s fake they put a surprising amount of effort into it...
- arethuza 7y ago
  I was trying to work out what language it is - also switching on strings like that doesn't seem like a great idea.
  - denzil_correa 7y ago
    The project is hosted on Github [0], I'm not sure if the entire source code is available though. [0] https://github.com/codeforamerica/autoclearance https://github.com/codeforamerica/autoclearance
    - kevin_b_er 7y ago
      I would hope the entire source is available. We should always be wary of secret algorithmic decisions in court cases. The algorithm should be openly available for the public to see in the same way that the law is to be openly available.
    - RiverBanshee 7y ago
      Hi, engineer on the project here! That's an old version of the code that turned out to be too slow for the volume of records we need to process. The current version, which you see in the images from the article, is written in Golang.

denzil_correa 7y ago

The software mentioned in the article is Clear My Record [0]. [0] https://www.clearmyrecord.org https://www.clearmyrecord.org

triplee 7y ago

Wasn't this a maguffin in one of the Batman movies?

syx 7y ago
my thoughts exactly lol

dahart 7y ago

It sounds like Code For America is doing great things! That said, I wish the title wasn’t tech focused, since that’s not the real news here, and the red-herring implication that it might be some kind of algorithmic mistake is not just completely irrelevant, but subtly pushing the narrative that tech is out of control and fallible — the exact opposite of what happened here. Possibly the most important piece of summarizing information in this article is that a person in the position to do so actually decided to expunge records automatically, without waiting for those convicted to defend themselves. That’s pretty good news!

true_tuna 7y ago
Perhaps the word “helps” should be added to the headline to indicate that this is working as intended, and there’s a human in loop. It could be more clear that the tool is simply overcoming cumbersome process.
- dmix 7y ago
  Seems almost intentional on BBC's part.
zaksoup 7y ago
Hey, I'm on the team at Code for America that built these tools. I really appreciate your comment because you're exactly right - the issue is and has always been one of policy and implementation. One of the core parts of our mission at CfA is to "show what's possible." In this case that means showing DAs and legislators that proactive record clearance is possible, simple, and good for communities. As other commenters are pointing out what we built amounts to a few "if" statements and an excel macro. They're right! That's a good thing too, because it means that governments are well positioned to follow our work without needing a high-cost technology partner or RFP. If you're in California and would like to ask your state reps and senators to support more legislation what would require proactive record clearance please take a look at AB 1076 and AB 972 (linked below). AB 1076: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB1076 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml... AB 972: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB972 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

kwhitefoot 7y ago

Well done George Gascon!

erentz 7y ago

> "As part of the new law, those with prior convictions could now seek to have them struck off their record." I really don't get the thought process that leads to this kind of thing. "Let's make it so we have to have to implement a new system that people petition and we review to determine if we expunge their record." Versus: "The new standard is if the conviction was for X, and the person does not have Y on their record, (etc.), then the record of X conviction is considered expunged. And then behind the scenes automatically make it so."

rtkwe 7y ago
Not sure a record can be expunged without an order from a court targeting a specific conviction/record in the separated system in the US.
- anticensor 7y ago
  Here in Turkey, we just disregard government records older than a certain age (80 years past crime for criminal records for instance). If a record is completely disregarded in proceedings, it could be separated into archive or expunged safely. It is just one more day job for your faithful computer.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    That's not the case in the US. The only real automatic sealing is that the criminal records of kids are generally sealed.
    - anticensor 7y ago
      One of the reasons they can do that in Turkey is Turkish government is structured in such a way that most records of even local government organisations are required to be entered into central database. USA lacks that.
turc1656 7y ago
I could be wrong, but I believe the logic behind this is that the law is still paramount and because the person did in fact break the law (in this case a felony crime), they should have to apply for their conviction to be expunged and make the case in court. Because at the end of the day, while we might not consider what they did a big deal now, when they committed the act it was a serious crime. I also think they want manual reviews because there could be plenty of cases where they only charged the person with possession for personal use but might actually suspect them of worse crimes like intent to distribute or something else like possible gang affiliation. So I don't think they ever really want there to just be a blanket "oh there's no charge of a violent crime so we can wipe it" because they might be wiping the record of a known gang member or serious criminal but didn't have quite enough evidence to charge and convict them on the other offenses.

tobbe2064 7y ago

No break statements!

darepublic 7y ago

Is this really a sophisticated algorithm or simply a script or database update statement. Every piece of code as reported by the news these days is algorithmic or AI related

aportnoy 7y ago

Imagine having a switch fallthrough bug in code like this…

eric12 7y ago

Are you in need of WhatsApp account hack including 8 month ago conversations, images and deleted messages and it will be hacked remotely without the target knowledge, contact newworldhackers12@gmail.com you can also contact us for: Clearing of criminal records Boosting of credit scores Changing of school grades Hacking of other social media account like: Facebook Snapchat Instagram Twitter Emails Text messages etc.. Also text us on whatsapp: +79037124262