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There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self

by DanBC 8y ago

There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. This is a complex phenomena. But if women start using more lethal methods we will see the ratio of male:female deaths by suicide change. To prevent suicide you want to address the misery that causes people to feel suicidal, and since women report similar levels of misery we need to give them some focus, and that focus is currently weak in research and prevention efforts.

shrimp_emoji 8y ago
In integrating to highly male fields, straddling the mindfuck of "when am I being too excluded due to my gender" vs. "when am I being too included due to my gender" must be salient too. On top of the normal traumas like impostor syndrome, adding that valence of paranoia and political intrigue to your work life can't be healthy.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- bubblewrap 8y ago
  How about just trying to do good work and not worrying about identity politics?
SkyBelow 8y ago
>There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. I've heard women attempt three times as much as men, but how much of that is explained by the fact that once you complete, you can no longer attempt. Had every one who succeeded failed, how many more attempts would they have added to the total? It is kinda like the paradox where planes should have armor in the places they don't get shot, because the planes shot in those places are the ones which crash and are never in the data set to measure.
bubblewrap 8y ago
So you think women die less often from suicide because because they are less competent at executing it? That seems very unlikely to me. While I am open to the idea that different sexes might be better or worse at certain things, suicide seems simple enough to be mastered by both men and women.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > because they are less competent at executing it? No, I don't think that at all.
  - bubblewrap 8y ago
    Then why do you expect women will start using more effective methods? Why are they not using them now?
    - DanBC 8y ago
      > Then why do you expect women will start using more effective methods? Because we are seeing the beginnings of method substitution in the data, especially for older women. > Why are they not using them now? We don't know, which is why it's a complex phenomenom. We can make guesses. We can guess that women find it easier to access support than men, that women are less isolated than men and so more likely to be found after an attempt, that the elements of contagion around suicide and self-harm prime men and women differently so they use different methods. Research is tricky and we don't have much.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        So, if anyone is feeling robust enough someone in England is currently live-tweeting an inquest about a young woman who died by suicide. It describes the huge amount of services around that person trying to keep her safe. https://twitter.com/SashaInquest https://twitter.com/SashaInquest Twitter isn't a great format for this. The coroner introduces the jury to the court and describes what their role is: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122801091794677761 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122801091794677761 Here's the coroner introducing the case: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122810288682803201 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122810288682803201 Here's the chronology of events: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122816136586899456 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122816136586899456
belorn 8y ago
I get reminded of the situation of domestic violence. Both men and women self-report the same amount of being victims, but women uses less lethal violence and thus die more from domestic violence compared to men. The method matter when it comes to outcomes. With suicide it means men die more, with domestic violence it mean women die more. Addressing the misery that causes people to cause violence against themselves or others is a good idea. What ever priority we want to use for one is likely a good choice for the other.

by DanBC 8y ago

shrimp_emoji 8y ago

In integrating to highly male fields, straddling the mindfuck of "when am I being too excluded due to my gender" vs. "when am I being too included due to my gender" must be salient too. On top of the normal traumas like impostor syndrome, adding that valence of paranoia and political intrigue to your work life can't be healthy.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
bubblewrap 8y ago
How about just trying to do good work and not worrying about identity politics?

SkyBelow 8y ago

>There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. I've heard women attempt three times as much as men, but how much of that is explained by the fact that once you complete, you can no longer attempt. Had every one who succeeded failed, how many more attempts would they have added to the total? It is kinda like the paradox where planes should have armor in the places they don't get shot, because the planes shot in those places are the ones which crash and are never in the data set to measure.

bubblewrap 8y ago

So you think women die less often from suicide because because they are less competent at executing it? That seems very unlikely to me. While I am open to the idea that different sexes might be better or worse at certain things, suicide seems simple enough to be mastered by both men and women.

DanBC 8y ago
> because they are less competent at executing it? No, I don't think that at all.
- bubblewrap 8y ago
  Then why do you expect women will start using more effective methods? Why are they not using them now?
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > Then why do you expect women will start using more effective methods? Because we are seeing the beginnings of method substitution in the data, especially for older women. > Why are they not using them now? We don't know, which is why it's a complex phenomenom. We can make guesses. We can guess that women find it easier to access support than men, that women are less isolated than men and so more likely to be found after an attempt, that the elements of contagion around suicide and self-harm prime men and women differently so they use different methods. Research is tricky and we don't have much.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      So, if anyone is feeling robust enough someone in England is currently live-tweeting an inquest about a young woman who died by suicide. It describes the huge amount of services around that person trying to keep her safe. https://twitter.com/SashaInquest https://twitter.com/SashaInquest Twitter isn't a great format for this. The coroner introduces the jury to the court and describes what their role is: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122801091794677761 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122801091794677761 Here's the coroner introducing the case: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122810288682803201 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122810288682803201 Here's the chronology of events: https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122816136586899456 https://twitter.com/SashaInquest/status/1122816136586899456

belorn 8y ago

I get reminded of the situation of domestic violence. Both men and women self-report the same amount of being victims, but women uses less lethal violence and thus die more from domestic violence compared to men. The method matter when it comes to outcomes. With suicide it means men die more, with domestic violence it mean women die more. Addressing the misery that causes people to cause violence against themselves or others is a good idea. What ever priority we want to use for one is likely a good choice for the other.