3 ms·

What’s gender have to do with this?

AlexandrB 7y ago
She’s relating her own experience and how it contrasts with that of the male physicists/programmers.
sodepressed 7y ago
At my place of work, a tech company with expressly progressive values, we've done a survey. The statistics show a very sharp distinction between men and women. You should ask my management -- who keeps promoting men and shutting out women. We've got some women rising in the ranks: hr, technical writing, marketing. But never on the R&D side.
- shrimp_emoji 7y ago
  So I gather that by "expressly progressive values" you mean "disingenuous progressive values".
  - sodepressed 7y ago
    No no, that wouldn't be generous. Remember, they all have good intentions. This might not sound honest, but it's how I'm expected to talk Loving the downvotes. I've literally been reprimanded for pointing out a pattern of sexist behavior -- 'cause apparently, counting to three before bringing it up to management is SO unfair
    - cobbzilla 7y ago
      fwiw, I wouldn't put too much stock in the responses here; you're likely seeing the HN crowd's version some of the same phenomena you are experiencing in the workplace. A sincere statement is picked apart, minimized, and denied. All of it sucks, and while I do not know your situation much, I'd say certainly keep on the lookout for better environments, and very specifically: find good/directional questions to ask in interviews that give you some leading indicators. I've worked for companies that seemed awesome at interview-time and then turned out to be toxic hell-holes. No company will say "we have a toxic culture"; you have to ask the right questions more subtly to get that info. (I wish I knew what those questions are; I haven't had to endure an interview process in many years; yes I realize how lucky I am; maybe others have suggestions?) Not sure how many options you have, but keep them all open, the positive ones anyway, and I wish you the best.
    - ip26 7y ago
      Loving the downvotes Your original comment seems tangentially related at best. Gender issues, physicists, programmers, office politics... while the article is about farmers, economics, maybe genetics. I get you work with suicidal individuals, but beyond that superficial observation I don't see how what you originally wrote contributes. Maybe I'm just too thick. If you'll excuse me for saying so, you also seem to be spoiling for a fight. FWIW just-barely-related top level comments tend to attract some downvotes.
    - wccrawford 7y ago
      To me it looks like you're being downvoted for standing up for the company and their false "progressive values" stance. The parent suggested that you meant the values were fake, and you responded by defending the term "progressive values". You're probably just not being clear, but it looks like you agree with them. Just because they think they're being progressive doesn't mean they actually are.
- t373738 7y ago
  Sorry to hear. I hope it gets better. Hang in there.
DanBC 7y ago
There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. This is a complex phenomena. But if women start using more lethal methods we will see the ratio of male:female deaths by suicide change. To prevent suicide you want to address the misery that causes people to feel suicidal, and since women report similar levels of misery we need to give them some focus, and that focus is currently weak in research and prevention efforts.
- shrimp_emoji 7y ago
  In integrating to highly male fields, straddling the mindfuck of "when am I being too excluded due to my gender" vs. "when am I being too included due to my gender" must be salient too. On top of the normal traumas like impostor syndrome, adding that valence of paranoia and political intrigue to your work life can't be healthy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bubblewrap 7y ago
    How about just trying to do good work and not worrying about identity politics?
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  >There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. I've heard women attempt three times as much as men, but how much of that is explained by the fact that once you complete, you can no longer attempt. Had every one who succeeded failed, how many more attempts would they have added to the total? It is kinda like the paradox where planes should have armor in the places they don't get shot, because the planes shot in those places are the ones which crash and are never in the data set to measure.
- bubblewrap 7y ago

She’s relating her own experience and how it contrasts with that of the male physicists/programmers.

At my place of work, a tech company with expressly progressive values, we've done a survey. The statistics show a very sharp distinction between men and women. You should ask my management -- who keeps promoting men and shutting out women. We've got some women rising in the ranks: hr, technical writing, marketing. But never on the R&D side.

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
So I gather that by "expressly progressive values" you mean "disingenuous progressive values".
- sodepressed 7y ago
  No no, that wouldn't be generous. Remember, they all have good intentions. This might not sound honest, but it's how I'm expected to talk Loving the downvotes. I've literally been reprimanded for pointing out a pattern of sexist behavior -- 'cause apparently, counting to three before bringing it up to management is SO unfair
  - cobbzilla 7y ago
    fwiw, I wouldn't put too much stock in the responses here; you're likely seeing the HN crowd's version some of the same phenomena you are experiencing in the workplace. A sincere statement is picked apart, minimized, and denied. All of it sucks, and while I do not know your situation much, I'd say certainly keep on the lookout for better environments, and very specifically: find good/directional questions to ask in interviews that give you some leading indicators. I've worked for companies that seemed awesome at interview-time and then turned out to be toxic hell-holes. No company will say "we have a toxic culture"; you have to ask the right questions more subtly to get that info. (I wish I knew what those questions are; I haven't had to endure an interview process in many years; yes I realize how lucky I am; maybe others have suggestions?) Not sure how many options you have, but keep them all open, the positive ones anyway, and I wish you the best.
  - ip26 7y ago
    Loving the downvotes Your original comment seems tangentially related at best. Gender issues, physicists, programmers, office politics... while the article is about farmers, economics, maybe genetics. I get you work with suicidal individuals, but beyond that superficial observation I don't see how what you originally wrote contributes. Maybe I'm just too thick. If you'll excuse me for saying so, you also seem to be spoiling for a fight. FWIW just-barely-related top level comments tend to attract some downvotes.
  - wccrawford 7y ago
    To me it looks like you're being downvoted for standing up for the company and their false "progressive values" stance. The parent suggested that you meant the values were fake, and you responded by defending the term "progressive values". You're probably just not being clear, but it looks like you agree with them. Just because they think they're being progressive doesn't mean they actually are.
t373738 7y ago
Sorry to hear. I hope it gets better. Hang in there.

DanBC 7y ago

There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. This is a complex phenomena. But if women start using more lethal methods we will see the ratio of male:female deaths by suicide change. To prevent suicide you want to address the misery that causes people to feel suicidal, and since women report similar levels of misery we need to give them some focus, and that focus is currently weak in research and prevention efforts.

shrimp_emoji 7y ago
In integrating to highly male fields, straddling the mindfuck of "when am I being too excluded due to my gender" vs. "when am I being too included due to my gender" must be salient too. On top of the normal traumas like impostor syndrome, adding that valence of paranoia and political intrigue to your work life can't be healthy.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bubblewrap 7y ago
  How about just trying to do good work and not worrying about identity politics?
SkyBelow 7y ago
>There's a gender paradox with suicide. Men die very much more often than women in most western countries, but women have much higher rates of self harm and self-reported suicidality. I've heard women attempt three times as much as men, but how much of that is explained by the fact that once you complete, you can no longer attempt. Had every one who succeeded failed, how many more attempts would they have added to the total? It is kinda like the paradox where planes should have armor in the places they don't get shot, because the planes shot in those places are the ones which crash and are never in the data set to measure.
bubblewrap 7y ago