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I want a linux phone so bad I can taste it The only reason I'm on android is because of f-droid -- the android experience still degrades every few months (we c

I want a linux phone so bad I can taste it The only reason I'm on android is because of f-droid -- the android experience still degrades every few months (we can process all your SMS through our website! slower animations!). So tired of carrying G's hot garbage around in my pocket.

Funes- 8y ago
You can use LineageOS[0] for the time being. [0]: https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/.
- thallian 8y ago
  lineageos + microg + playmaker for the stuff I still want from the playstore makes it almost usable for me. But I am with op for being able to taste my desire :)
elorant 8y ago
So why not an iPhone? I'm not trolling, I try to understand why so many IT guys choose Android when it's obvious that Google sucks as much data as they can out of the platform.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  The original appeal is best summarized in this 2010 tweet by Andy Rubin: https://twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429 https://twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429 i.e. Android is completely open; if Google were to try to put something nefarious in it, anyone who'd checked out the Android source would be able to see that nefarious thing and remove it; if Google kept putting it back in, nerds would be able to fork Android to take it away from Google. This has become much less true over the years than it used to be, of course, as much of what makes Android Android has migrated out of the core OS into less open intermediate layers like apps and services. This transition helps Google push updates out to users more quickly, since cell network operators proved to be pretty slow about pushing out updates to Android proper, but from Google's perspective it also has the side benefit of making "open Android" (e.g. AOSP) pretty incomplete unless you pair it with Google's proprietary services.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    It has been a very long time since doing this produced a usable operating system. Relevant thread: https://twitter.com/CopperheadOS/status/772592323112869888 https://twitter.com/CopperheadOS/status/772592323112869888
    - smacktoward 8y ago
      Yes, that's true, that's why I said this was this original appeal of Android to privacy-oriented nerds. It hasn't been the case for a long time, but Android is still coasting on the goodwill it built up over the time when it was.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      How does Amazon's FireOS work, then? I thought that was a clean fork with zero Google stuff.
      - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
        Amazon's flavors of Android require extensive work to clone Google's proprietary APIs and map them to Amazon-owned equivalents. If you read the thread I linked, you'll see that Google doesn't really bother to ensure open source Android builds actually work at all: They post them but are only concerned with proprietary flavors being functional. Which means a lot of work has to be done to make open source Android even build in the first place. Then, most apps are built on proprietary Google APIs, not open source Android APIs. So you either have to use something like micro-g to let you use Google services without the proprietary on-device code, or create your own replacement APIs that just claim to be Google, but aren't, which Amazon does and Microsoft experimented with when they made Android apps installable on some test builds of Windows Mobile. Or you have to substantially rewrite the apps not to use proprietary Google APIs. So you have to do a lot to make open source Android anything actually work and do what people expect it to.
  - dmitriid 8y ago
    > if Google were to try to put something nefarious in it, anyone who'd checked out the Android source would be able to see that nefarious thing and remove it Ah, the favorite "a million eyes fallacy". The truth is: there are very few (if any) people capable to do a full audit on the Android source code to see if something nefarious is happening. The source code for Android is over 20 GB. Good luck that "anyone" who can check it out an be able to see ... well ... anything.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  I cannot get a brand new iPhone, contract free for the same price as a Nokia 7+, similar hardware features and size.
  - Skunkleton 8y ago
    The 7+ is a firmly mid range phone. Why even try and compare them?
    - horsawlarway 8y ago
      Because the question was "Why not buy an iphone?" I think price is a pretty freaking good justification. I don't need to pay a 500 dollar mark-up to move out of "mid-range" when it does EVERYTHING I need my phone to do just fine.
      - Skunkleton 8y ago
        A new iPhone 7 is $449.
        pjmlp 8y ago
        A month salary in many developing countries for a phone, no thanks.
        Skunkleton 8y ago
        And about the same price as the Nokia 7+...
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Nokia 7+ can be obtained for 200 euros with deals on shopping malls, half of a iPhone 7 price, and it is a 2019 device. 200 euros less than a 3 year old phone, and while still too expensive for some developing countries, it feels being less wastefull of our society resources.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  I carry an iPhone only because I don't trust Google. I don't like it, but at least I understand how Apple is trying to screw me. I am very excited for the Librem 5.
- Yetanfou 8y ago
  For the same reason that I do not use Windows or MacOS - I like my software to listen to me, not to some remote dictator no matter how 'benevolent' he might portray himself to be. My phones run Android but do not run anything Google - no play store, no Google Services Framework, no Google apps. Seen from foundation to screen they run a - generally closed source - bootloader, the Linux kernel, some derivative of AOSP with F-Droid to feed the thing with software. Somewhere on the side they also run the closed-source, closed-everything 4G (or 3G on some older devices) modem. The bootloader and the closed radio software are thus far unavoidable but for the other parts there is no excuse not to use open, 'free' software. Just like my servers and user-facing machines run Linux or one of the BSD's. An iPhone would not be a step up but a jump down.
  - chupasaurus 8y ago
    > closed-everything 4G (or 3G on some older devices) Cellular modems with open firmware are prohibited in 140 countries, including US and Europe.
    - oretoz 8y ago
      Interesting. Do you have sources for that? Genuinely interested to know.
      - chupasaurus 8y ago
        THe list of countries I've read is long time lost for me, but I've checked regulations in dozen countries from there and it was correct. For US: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm...
  - rchaud 8y ago
    Can I ask the make and model of the phone you're using? I assume it's on a custom ROM and rooted since you said there aren't any Google Play Services related stuff running. I have a Galaxy Tab S5e on the way that runs Android + Samsung DeX Linux. I'm hoping to use the Linux aspect heavily, so less of my info flows to Google. But I'll need to dig into it a bit to understand how they keep the data separate (if they do).
- kermitismyhero 8y ago
  >So why not an iPhone? "Jailbreaking" on Android is as easy as flipping a toggle in the security settings. It allows for easy sideloading in general, and the use of alternative app sources in particular. IOS's developer sideloading capabilities have so many restrictions and limitations that it barely counts as sideloading. Apple HATES the GPLv3, and specifically designed their app store agreement to forbid GPLv3 software. Good luck finding anything GPLv3 that's not dual-licensed on their app store. This effectively bans any GPLv3 software that's not exclusively developed by a single company (or is a community project that mandates copyright reassignment) from the app store. (Fun fact: Apple's hatred of the GPLv3 is the same reason that they ship MacOS with a 12-year-old version of Bash, v3.2, the last version under GPLv2.) I won't support a company so hostile to the very concept of free software. Google is the embodiment of the phrase "privacy nightmare", but even they obey the spirit of the GPL and other free software/open source licenses in their projects. No iPhone has ever had a microSD slot. I'm not going to spend a multi-hundred-dollar premium for the equivalent storage space of a $20 microSD card. I prefer Linux at home. Historically iPhones have required iTunes for basic functionality such as copying music to the phone, and therefore required Windows or MacOS. It's not as painful nowadays to use an iPhone without iTunes day-to-day, but it's still nowhere near as simple as Android, and certain operations still require iTunes. Mobile Firefox on Android supports regular desktop Firefox extensions. I wouldn't be able to install Ublock Origin, Decentraleyes, UMatrix, or any other extension on Firefox on IOS, because Apple mandates that all third-party browsers on IOS can only be wrappers around mobile Safari. I can easily install standard extensions on Firefox for Android, because it's really Firefox under the hood. I greatly hope for the success of the Librem 5. I would drop Android in a heartbeat for a genuinely Google-free phone with all the traditional openness (sideloading, adding cheap storage, easy wired file transfers without Windows/OSX, etc) of Android. GApps-less LineageOS is better than standard Google-laden Android but it's still not ideal. All I'm waiting for before ordering a Librem 5 is final confirmation that the supported frequencies match my carrier.
  - jw14 8y ago
    Interesting. From my perspective it's the GPLv3 that's the issue. When I'm looking to build something and I see a GPLv3 widget I think "Oh man, so my options with this will be very limited. I won't be able to do normal things with it." I find Apple's stance slightly odd since I don't think the GPLv3 apps would infect Apple, but then I also haven't taken the trouble to thoroughly understand GPLv3. I started to research it some years ago and my quick conclusion was "avoid". I don't really have too much complaint about GPLv2. It does impose some limits but I feel like I understand them and can work with them. Definitely with you on the $20 microSD card. The markup for storage is absurd. Update: want to add this question. Anyone know why Apple would bar a GPLv3 app from the app store (bash is unfortunate but I think I understand that one)?
- Mikeb85 8y ago
  The nice thing about Android phones is that they're flexible. You have a lot of choice WRT default apps, launchers, behaviours, etc... Do iPhones even collect less data? You'll still probably use Google, Facebook, and other data-collecting services on their platform. Not to mention the tracking carriers themselves do. Even most Linux users aren't that concerned with privacy, at the end of the day most still use Chrome and Google services. It's more about choice, freedom and control over your device.
amelius 8y ago
Me too. The only problem I have with an alternative to Android or iOS is: will it run my banking app?
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  I remain very confused about the focus on mobile banking apps. I watched as Windows Mobile sites extensively covered each and every bank that left the platform like it was an incredible tragedy. Banking is the most obvious case for doing over the web. It is silly to limit yourself to platforms which your specific bank happens to support, given the incredible multitude of banks, and the likelihood that most banks' apps probably suck anyhow.
  - amelius 8y ago
    The problem that a banking app solves is that it makes authentication simple; you can log in usually just by typing a PIN code on screen, and then you can do things like check transactions or balances, and even transfer small amounts of money without a hassle. This may not sound like a huge advantage, but remember that bank website authentication usually requires the use of a security token device. And this device is something you probably don't want to carry around all the time.
    - tangue 8y ago
      I can do that with the website of my bank. Why do you want an app ? For security purposes ? ( true question as I don't understand the need for an app )
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Apps can use biometric authentication, which is somewhat more convenient.
      - amelius 8y ago
        Because most banks only allow access through either the app (without token device, for small payments), OR through a website (with token device).
juliangoldsmith 8y ago
Depending on what device you have, and how much work you're willing to do, you might be interested in postmarketOS. We're working on getting Alpine Linux running on devices, particularly older Android phones. The best-supported devices right now are the Nexus 5 and the N900, but others are catching up. We've also got people working with the Librem 5 devkits, so the Librem 5 will be fully-supported once it comes out.
- giggles_giggles 8y ago
  It says on the front page of the website that PostmarketOS cannot receive calls. The commenter that you're replying to is obviously using his phone as his daily driver. Being unable to receive calls relegates PostmarketOS to toy status for a secondary device suitable for tinkering. I have a Nexus 5 in my pocket right now and if PostmarketOS could receive calls I would be currently installing it. Instead, well I don't know what to do. LineageOS stopped pushing updates for the Nexus 5 recently. I bought this phone to try out Plasma Mobile, but it was unusably slow. I don't want a new Android phone. I don't want an iPhone. I was waiting on the Librem 5 but I think it might be vaporware. I have been seriously considering just getting a Nokia 3310 and a Garmin and calling it a day and being done with all this smartphone nonsense.
  - MartijnBraam 8y ago
    Well technically calling works on the Nexus 5 with postmarketOS, the issue is that the whole audio system doesn't work yet due to missing some dsp stuff. Also the PinePhone is an interesting project to watch.
    - keanebean86 8y ago
      I'm cheap so I buy really cheap phones and these projects never support the really cheap devices. I understand. They can only support popular devices with decent specs. It's just depressing that my phone is stuck with the ancient version of Android (5.0.2) it shipped with.
- awinter-py 8y ago
ForHackernews 8y ago
There's the search-unfriendly /e/ operating system: https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/

Funes- 8y ago

You can use LineageOS[0] for the time being. [0]: https://lineageos.org/ https://lineageos.org/.

thallian 8y ago
lineageos + microg + playmaker for the stuff I still want from the playstore makes it almost usable for me. But I am with op for being able to taste my desire :)

elorant 8y ago

So why not an iPhone? I'm not trolling, I try to understand why so many IT guys choose Android when it's obvious that Google sucks as much data as they can out of the platform.

smacktoward 8y ago
The original appeal is best summarized in this 2010 tweet by Andy Rubin: https://twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429 https://twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429 i.e. Android is completely open; if Google were to try to put something nefarious in it, anyone who'd checked out the Android source would be able to see that nefarious thing and remove it; if Google kept putting it back in, nerds would be able to fork Android to take it away from Google. This has become much less true over the years than it used to be, of course, as much of what makes Android Android has migrated out of the core OS into less open intermediate layers like apps and services. This transition helps Google push updates out to users more quickly, since cell network operators proved to be pretty slow about pushing out updates to Android proper, but from Google's perspective it also has the side benefit of making "open Android" (e.g. AOSP) pretty incomplete unless you pair it with Google's proprietary services.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  It has been a very long time since doing this produced a usable operating system. Relevant thread: https://twitter.com/CopperheadOS/status/772592323112869888 https://twitter.com/CopperheadOS/status/772592323112869888
  - smacktoward 8y ago
    Yes, that's true, that's why I said this was this original appeal of Android to privacy-oriented nerds. It hasn't been the case for a long time, but Android is still coasting on the goodwill it built up over the time when it was.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    How does Amazon's FireOS work, then? I thought that was a clean fork with zero Google stuff.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      Amazon's flavors of Android require extensive work to clone Google's proprietary APIs and map them to Amazon-owned equivalents. If you read the thread I linked, you'll see that Google doesn't really bother to ensure open source Android builds actually work at all: They post them but are only concerned with proprietary flavors being functional. Which means a lot of work has to be done to make open source Android even build in the first place. Then, most apps are built on proprietary Google APIs, not open source Android APIs. So you either have to use something like micro-g to let you use Google services without the proprietary on-device code, or create your own replacement APIs that just claim to be Google, but aren't, which Amazon does and Microsoft experimented with when they made Android apps installable on some test builds of Windows Mobile. Or you have to substantially rewrite the apps not to use proprietary Google APIs. So you have to do a lot to make open source Android anything actually work and do what people expect it to.
- dmitriid 8y ago
  > if Google were to try to put something nefarious in it, anyone who'd checked out the Android source would be able to see that nefarious thing and remove it Ah, the favorite "a million eyes fallacy". The truth is: there are very few (if any) people capable to do a full audit on the Android source code to see if something nefarious is happening. The source code for Android is over 20 GB. Good luck that "anyone" who can check it out an be able to see ... well ... anything.
pjmlp 8y ago
I cannot get a brand new iPhone, contract free for the same price as a Nokia 7+, similar hardware features and size.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  The 7+ is a firmly mid range phone. Why even try and compare them?
  - horsawlarway 8y ago
    Because the question was "Why not buy an iphone?" I think price is a pretty freaking good justification. I don't need to pay a 500 dollar mark-up to move out of "mid-range" when it does EVERYTHING I need my phone to do just fine.
    - Skunkleton 8y ago
      A new iPhone 7 is $449.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        A month salary in many developing countries for a phone, no thanks.
        Skunkleton 8y ago
        And about the same price as the Nokia 7+...
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Nokia 7+ can be obtained for 200 euros with deals on shopping malls, half of a iPhone 7 price, and it is a 2019 device. 200 euros less than a 3 year old phone, and while still too expensive for some developing countries, it feels being less wastefull of our society resources.
Skunkleton 8y ago
I carry an iPhone only because I don't trust Google. I don't like it, but at least I understand how Apple is trying to screw me. I am very excited for the Librem 5.
Yetanfou 8y ago
For the same reason that I do not use Windows or MacOS - I like my software to listen to me, not to some remote dictator no matter how 'benevolent' he might portray himself to be. My phones run Android but do not run anything Google - no play store, no Google Services Framework, no Google apps. Seen from foundation to screen they run a - generally closed source - bootloader, the Linux kernel, some derivative of AOSP with F-Droid to feed the thing with software. Somewhere on the side they also run the closed-source, closed-everything 4G (or 3G on some older devices) modem. The bootloader and the closed radio software are thus far unavoidable but for the other parts there is no excuse not to use open, 'free' software. Just like my servers and user-facing machines run Linux or one of the BSD's. An iPhone would not be a step up but a jump down.
- chupasaurus 8y ago
  > closed-everything 4G (or 3G on some older devices) Cellular modems with open firmware are prohibited in 140 countries, including US and Europe.
  - oretoz 8y ago
    Interesting. Do you have sources for that? Genuinely interested to know.
    - chupasaurus 8y ago
      THe list of countries I've read is long time lost for me, but I've checked regulations in dozen countries from there and it was correct. For US: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm...
- rchaud 8y ago
  Can I ask the make and model of the phone you're using? I assume it's on a custom ROM and rooted since you said there aren't any Google Play Services related stuff running. I have a Galaxy Tab S5e on the way that runs Android + Samsung DeX Linux. I'm hoping to use the Linux aspect heavily, so less of my info flows to Google. But I'll need to dig into it a bit to understand how they keep the data separate (if they do).
kermitismyhero 8y ago
>So why not an iPhone? "Jailbreaking" on Android is as easy as flipping a toggle in the security settings. It allows for easy sideloading in general, and the use of alternative app sources in particular. IOS's developer sideloading capabilities have so many restrictions and limitations that it barely counts as sideloading. Apple HATES the GPLv3, and specifically designed their app store agreement to forbid GPLv3 software. Good luck finding anything GPLv3 that's not dual-licensed on their app store. This effectively bans any GPLv3 software that's not exclusively developed by a single company (or is a community project that mandates copyright reassignment) from the app store. (Fun fact: Apple's hatred of the GPLv3 is the same reason that they ship MacOS with a 12-year-old version of Bash, v3.2, the last version under GPLv2.) I won't support a company so hostile to the very concept of free software. Google is the embodiment of the phrase "privacy nightmare", but even they obey the spirit of the GPL and other free software/open source licenses in their projects. No iPhone has ever had a microSD slot. I'm not going to spend a multi-hundred-dollar premium for the equivalent storage space of a $20 microSD card. I prefer Linux at home. Historically iPhones have required iTunes for basic functionality such as copying music to the phone, and therefore required Windows or MacOS. It's not as painful nowadays to use an iPhone without iTunes day-to-day, but it's still nowhere near as simple as Android, and certain operations still require iTunes. Mobile Firefox on Android supports regular desktop Firefox extensions. I wouldn't be able to install Ublock Origin, Decentraleyes, UMatrix, or any other extension on Firefox on IOS, because Apple mandates that all third-party browsers on IOS can only be wrappers around mobile Safari. I can easily install standard extensions on Firefox for Android, because it's really Firefox under the hood. I greatly hope for the success of the Librem 5. I would drop Android in a heartbeat for a genuinely Google-free phone with all the traditional openness (sideloading, adding cheap storage, easy wired file transfers without Windows/OSX, etc) of Android. GApps-less LineageOS is better than standard Google-laden Android but it's still not ideal. All I'm waiting for before ordering a Librem 5 is final confirmation that the supported frequencies match my carrier.
- jw14 8y ago
  Interesting. From my perspective it's the GPLv3 that's the issue. When I'm looking to build something and I see a GPLv3 widget I think "Oh man, so my options with this will be very limited. I won't be able to do normal things with it." I find Apple's stance slightly odd since I don't think the GPLv3 apps would infect Apple, but then I also haven't taken the trouble to thoroughly understand GPLv3. I started to research it some years ago and my quick conclusion was "avoid". I don't really have too much complaint about GPLv2. It does impose some limits but I feel like I understand them and can work with them. Definitely with you on the $20 microSD card. The markup for storage is absurd. Update: want to add this question. Anyone know why Apple would bar a GPLv3 app from the app store (bash is unfortunate but I think I understand that one)?
Mikeb85 8y ago
The nice thing about Android phones is that they're flexible. You have a lot of choice WRT default apps, launchers, behaviours, etc... Do iPhones even collect less data? You'll still probably use Google, Facebook, and other data-collecting services on their platform. Not to mention the tracking carriers themselves do. Even most Linux users aren't that concerned with privacy, at the end of the day most still use Chrome and Google services. It's more about choice, freedom and control over your device.

amelius 8y ago

Me too. The only problem I have with an alternative to Android or iOS is: will it run my banking app?

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
I remain very confused about the focus on mobile banking apps. I watched as Windows Mobile sites extensively covered each and every bank that left the platform like it was an incredible tragedy. Banking is the most obvious case for doing over the web. It is silly to limit yourself to platforms which your specific bank happens to support, given the incredible multitude of banks, and the likelihood that most banks' apps probably suck anyhow.
- amelius 8y ago
  The problem that a banking app solves is that it makes authentication simple; you can log in usually just by typing a PIN code on screen, and then you can do things like check transactions or balances, and even transfer small amounts of money without a hassle. This may not sound like a huge advantage, but remember that bank website authentication usually requires the use of a security token device. And this device is something you probably don't want to carry around all the time.
  - tangue 8y ago
    I can do that with the website of my bank. Why do you want an app ? For security purposes ? ( true question as I don't understand the need for an app )
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Apps can use biometric authentication, which is somewhat more convenient.
    - amelius 8y ago
      Because most banks only allow access through either the app (without token device, for small payments), OR through a website (with token device).

juliangoldsmith 8y ago

Depending on what device you have, and how much work you're willing to do, you might be interested in postmarketOS. We're working on getting Alpine Linux running on devices, particularly older Android phones. The best-supported devices right now are the Nexus 5 and the N900, but others are catching up. We've also got people working with the Librem 5 devkits, so the Librem 5 will be fully-supported once it comes out.

giggles_giggles 8y ago
It says on the front page of the website that PostmarketOS cannot receive calls. The commenter that you're replying to is obviously using his phone as his daily driver. Being unable to receive calls relegates PostmarketOS to toy status for a secondary device suitable for tinkering. I have a Nexus 5 in my pocket right now and if PostmarketOS could receive calls I would be currently installing it. Instead, well I don't know what to do. LineageOS stopped pushing updates for the Nexus 5 recently. I bought this phone to try out Plasma Mobile, but it was unusably slow. I don't want a new Android phone. I don't want an iPhone. I was waiting on the Librem 5 but I think it might be vaporware. I have been seriously considering just getting a Nokia 3310 and a Garmin and calling it a day and being done with all this smartphone nonsense.
- MartijnBraam 8y ago
  Well technically calling works on the Nexus 5 with postmarketOS, the issue is that the whole audio system doesn't work yet due to missing some dsp stuff. Also the PinePhone is an interesting project to watch.
  - keanebean86 8y ago
    I'm cheap so I buy really cheap phones and these projects never support the really cheap devices. I understand. They can only support popular devices with decent specs. It's just depressing that my phone is stuck with the ancient version of Android (5.0.2) it shipped with.
awinter-py 8y ago

ForHackernews 8y ago

There's the search-unfriendly /e/ operating system: https://e.foundation/ https://e.foundation/