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When I was younger, like many people, I thought of all-nighters as a thing to brag about. Now, I see sleep deprivation as a serious health debt that you pay no

When I was younger, like many people, I thought of all-nighters as a thing to brag about. Now, I see sleep deprivation as a serious health debt that you pay nosebleed compound interest rates on. If you get less than your preferred amount of sleep, everyday living can become more complicated. Simple tasks can become dangerous. Do not walk down stairs without holding the hand rail if you are tired! Also, my sleep tracker confirms that, on average, it takes about one hour more of being in bed to get X hours of sleep. So if you need 8 hours of sleep, you need to be in bed around 9 hours! I aim for 7 hours (8 hours in bed).

Robotbeat 8y ago
Some of this is just aging, though. When younger, I could do all nighters regularly and bounce back quickly. Can’t do it any more without, as you say, nosebleed interest.
- cocochanel 8y ago
  The harsh reality. Many of the lifestyle habits simply become exponentially harder as we age.
  - chasd00 8y ago
    i watch my kids bounce back from and fight through illness in awe. My wife says i suffer from "man colds" but when i have a fever i'm completely incapacitated. I just lie in bed and think "... so this is how it ends" heh
heymijo 8y ago
"as a serious health debt" Except, sleep isn't a debt because the loss can't be repaid. This is one of many important things I have picked up from Dr. Matthew Walker who wrote "Why We Sleep" and has been doing the podcast rounds lately. Not to pick on you at all. It sounds like you have made some big realizations and are making fantastic changes. Realizing I can't make up sleep to pay off the "debt" has been eye opening.
- BeeBoBub 8y ago
  I’d say the same, but it’s been more eye-closing for me
- leesec 8y ago
  This book, and "The Case Against Sugar" have been, by far, the two most impactful books in my life in recent years. They've genuinely changed my life for the better.
  - FrojoS 8y ago
    What is your opinion on this, quite damning review? http://www.stephanguyenet.com/bad-sugar-or-bad-journalism-an-expert-review-of-the-case-against-sugar/ http://www.stephanguyenet.com/bad-sugar-or-bad-journalism-an... as well as this one https://nutritionsciencefactcheck.com/2017/07/20/the-case-against-the-case-against-sugar/ https://nutritionsciencefactcheck.com/2017/07/20/the-case-ag...
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      >Rather, I say this book doesn’t need to exist for the following reasons: All of the reasons that follow boil down to, essentially, "this book is so obviously true that there's no need to read it." That's hardly a damning review, it's a bit closer to the most vehement agreement possible.
      - FrojoS 8y ago
        Did you read the rest of the review? Here is an example quote: "Scientifically, The Case Against Sugar suffers from a condition Steven Pinker has called the “Igon Value Problem”. This term describes the tendency of certain science journalists to arrive at obtuse conclusions due to a superficial understanding of their subject matter" and later "Taubes argues that sugar is the only factor that reliably shows up when a culture develops Western noncommunicable diseases, supporting the point with examples of cultures that adopted sugar-rich diets and became ill. Yet he makes no effort to look for a counterexample that could refute his argument: a traditionally-living culture that has a high intake of sugar and does not suffer from Western noncommunicable diseases." These are just two examples. My understanding (from those two reviews only!), is that you will come away LESS well informed when reading this book. Now, if you provide me with an expert opinion in favour of the book, I'm happy to change my mind. FYI Apart from moments where I try to recover fast (1-60min) from a near max physical effort, I avoid sugar anyway. I do NOT promote eating sugar.
chasd00 8y ago
i use to think this way too. When i was HS living out in the countryside of North Texas the father of a friend of mine would take me hunting and target shooting a lot. He said he did an experiment once where he shot 3 groups of 5 shots then measured his precision and accuracy. Next, he drank a beer (i know, not the wisest thing to do) then repeated the shooting exercise. He did this for a few iterations and his conclusion was that it didn't matter that he didn't feel the effects of the alcohol right away, his shooting steadily declined on each iteration. I think sleep is the same way, whether or not you immediately notice you're not getting enough sleep your performance steadily declines.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  But your body doesn't absorb the alcohol instantly. Those test results make no sense from a medical standpoint. There should be a lag between drinking and the performance hit.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > But your body doesn't absorb the alcohol instantly Yes, it does. I mean, it takes time to fully absorb it, but alcohol begins entering the bloodstream immediately when reaching the stomach, it is not digested. Rapidity of effect will vary by a lot of personal and other factors.
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Yes but the difference between 0 and 1, possibly even 2 beers is going to be below the noise threshold for normal values of "beer".
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Yes but the difference between 0 and 1, possibly even 2 beers is going to be below the noise threshold for normal values of "beer" In terms of feeling? Maybe. In terms of measurable effects on motor skills, probably not. They start much earlier (both in time from drinking and quantity of drinking) than people tend to think, or even recognize at the time if they aren't actually measuring them.
Sander_Marechal 8y ago
> I see sleep deprivation as a serious health debt that you pay nosebleed compound interest rates on. I wish it were that easy! Years and years of sleep deprivation left me dealing with pretty bad anxiety attacks. It's been almost 6 years now and they are mostly manageable. I'm still on medication though, which has other not-so-fun side effects. Don't be stupid like me. Get enough sleep! It's the only part I dread about having children: The lack of sleep in the first few months/years is probably going to worsen my anxiety attacks :-/ I still really want kids though :-)
- serpi 8y ago
  Oh, it definitely will. Lack of sleep invites panic and anxiety attacks. When well rested they are nonexistent. After about four years from birth you'll recover though and looking back you won't even remember anything so it's all good.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
When you're young enough to be pulling all nighters falling down the stairs is a minor inconvenience. When you're middle aged it's a serious health emergency.
deleted 8y ago
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Robotbeat 8y ago

Some of this is just aging, though. When younger, I could do all nighters regularly and bounce back quickly. Can’t do it any more without, as you say, nosebleed interest.

cocochanel 8y ago
The harsh reality. Many of the lifestyle habits simply become exponentially harder as we age.
- chasd00 8y ago
  i watch my kids bounce back from and fight through illness in awe. My wife says i suffer from "man colds" but when i have a fever i'm completely incapacitated. I just lie in bed and think "... so this is how it ends" heh

heymijo 8y ago

"as a serious health debt" Except, sleep isn't a debt because the loss can't be repaid. This is one of many important things I have picked up from Dr. Matthew Walker who wrote "Why We Sleep" and has been doing the podcast rounds lately. Not to pick on you at all. It sounds like you have made some big realizations and are making fantastic changes. Realizing I can't make up sleep to pay off the "debt" has been eye opening.

BeeBoBub 8y ago
I’d say the same, but it’s been more eye-closing for me
leesec 8y ago
This book, and "The Case Against Sugar" have been, by far, the two most impactful books in my life in recent years. They've genuinely changed my life for the better.
- FrojoS 8y ago
  What is your opinion on this, quite damning review? http://www.stephanguyenet.com/bad-sugar-or-bad-journalism-an-expert-review-of-the-case-against-sugar/ http://www.stephanguyenet.com/bad-sugar-or-bad-journalism-an... as well as this one https://nutritionsciencefactcheck.com/2017/07/20/the-case-against-the-case-against-sugar/ https://nutritionsciencefactcheck.com/2017/07/20/the-case-ag...
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    >Rather, I say this book doesn’t need to exist for the following reasons: All of the reasons that follow boil down to, essentially, "this book is so obviously true that there's no need to read it." That's hardly a damning review, it's a bit closer to the most vehement agreement possible.
    - FrojoS 8y ago
      Did you read the rest of the review? Here is an example quote: "Scientifically, The Case Against Sugar suffers from a condition Steven Pinker has called the “Igon Value Problem”. This term describes the tendency of certain science journalists to arrive at obtuse conclusions due to a superficial understanding of their subject matter" and later "Taubes argues that sugar is the only factor that reliably shows up when a culture develops Western noncommunicable diseases, supporting the point with examples of cultures that adopted sugar-rich diets and became ill. Yet he makes no effort to look for a counterexample that could refute his argument: a traditionally-living culture that has a high intake of sugar and does not suffer from Western noncommunicable diseases." These are just two examples. My understanding (from those two reviews only!), is that you will come away LESS well informed when reading this book. Now, if you provide me with an expert opinion in favour of the book, I'm happy to change my mind. FYI Apart from moments where I try to recover fast (1-60min) from a near max physical effort, I avoid sugar anyway. I do NOT promote eating sugar.

chasd00 8y ago

i use to think this way too. When i was HS living out in the countryside of North Texas the father of a friend of mine would take me hunting and target shooting a lot. He said he did an experiment once where he shot 3 groups of 5 shots then measured his precision and accuracy. Next, he drank a beer (i know, not the wisest thing to do) then repeated the shooting exercise. He did this for a few iterations and his conclusion was that it didn't matter that he didn't feel the effects of the alcohol right away, his shooting steadily declined on each iteration. I think sleep is the same way, whether or not you immediately notice you're not getting enough sleep your performance steadily declines.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
But your body doesn't absorb the alcohol instantly. Those test results make no sense from a medical standpoint. There should be a lag between drinking and the performance hit.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > But your body doesn't absorb the alcohol instantly Yes, it does. I mean, it takes time to fully absorb it, but alcohol begins entering the bloodstream immediately when reaching the stomach, it is not digested. Rapidity of effect will vary by a lot of personal and other factors.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    Yes but the difference between 0 and 1, possibly even 2 beers is going to be below the noise threshold for normal values of "beer".
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Yes but the difference between 0 and 1, possibly even 2 beers is going to be below the noise threshold for normal values of "beer" In terms of feeling? Maybe. In terms of measurable effects on motor skills, probably not. They start much earlier (both in time from drinking and quantity of drinking) than people tend to think, or even recognize at the time if they aren't actually measuring them.

Sander_Marechal 8y ago

> I see sleep deprivation as a serious health debt that you pay nosebleed compound interest rates on. I wish it were that easy! Years and years of sleep deprivation left me dealing with pretty bad anxiety attacks. It's been almost 6 years now and they are mostly manageable. I'm still on medication though, which has other not-so-fun side effects. Don't be stupid like me. Get enough sleep! It's the only part I dread about having children: The lack of sleep in the first few months/years is probably going to worsen my anxiety attacks :-/ I still really want kids though :-)

serpi 8y ago
Oh, it definitely will. Lack of sleep invites panic and anxiety attacks. When well rested they are nonexistent. After about four years from birth you'll recover though and looking back you won't even remember anything so it's all good.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

When you're young enough to be pulling all nighters falling down the stairs is a minor inconvenience. When you're middle aged it's a serious health emergency.

deleted 8y ago

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