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Speedgate: World’s First Sport Generated by AI
- soperj 7y agoBasically just rugby with some nets and goalies.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Fiaxhs 7y agoI don't see nets? https://news.developer.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Speedgate_Field_Guide-1.png https://news.developer.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04... It's really different from rugby.
- soperj 7y agothe gates are nets. It's not really that different. You pass the same, they even name the kicks the same (grubber, and drop kick) and it uses a rugby ball.
- chirau 7y agoDo you know the rules of rugby? And have you read the rules for this game? Totally different.
- fastball 7y agoThey use a rugby ball, and they kick the ball and pass the ball, but that is basically where the similarities with rugby end.
- RosanaAnaDana 7y agoWell that promo video was utterly uninformative. How do you play; is it fun?
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoIt did seem rather like a modern product advert to me too. Far less informative than it might have been.
- brian_herman__ 7y agoSounds like Calvin ball https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/05 https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/05/05
- LeoPanthera 7y agoOr Guyball: https://youtu.be/nYeCUT7jNkM https://youtu.be/nYeCUT7jNkM
- pulse7 7y agoIt is some kind of rugby...
- sehugg 7y agoLooks like they're using Keras to generate random phrases, then winnowing them down to the best few, which they extrapolate into a functional sport rulebook with their human brains. Could have probably done this with a Markov chain as well. "apt-get install dadadodo" for instance.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jbattle 7y agoNot terribly impressive when you phrase it like that. I can make a machine that shakes up a bunch of words. But then if I pick out the words to make a poem I haven't invented a poem-writing machine
- SolarNet 7y agoThis is why I am generally unimpressed with the state of AI. These techniques are great for things like recognizing images and text. I very much doubt it will be useful for any sort of intelligent action in the near future. On the account, classical AI techniques like planning are more promising
- sehugg 7y agoIt's not even the first time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racter
- chrisco255 7y agoMaybe it's useful for brainstorming though? Sure a human still needs to curate but the AI might think of things you otherwise wouldn't?
- andai 7y agohttps://orteil.dashnet.org/gamegen https://orteil.dashnet.org/gamegen
- ANPEQ-1 7y ago
- gknoy 7y agoThe rules [0] are presented pretty nicely. This looks like a lot of fun for twelve players. 0: https://playspeedgate.org/5/ https://playspeedgate.org/5/
- quotha 7y agoAre you sure this wasn't created by Homer Simpson?
- mcphage 7y ago> trained a recurrent neural network and a deep convolutional generative adversarial network on over 400 sports with the aim of creating a new and original sport. Did they share anywhere what their training data looked like?
- TheLoneTechNerd 7y agoAt 32 seconds into the video, you can see a few frames of a Google Sheet where one column is the name of the sport (you can see "Quidditch" quite a few times) and a second column is a rule, like "The Chasers are there to try and keep posession of the Quaffle...". Looks like one row per rule. Teh filename is "AKQA AI SPORT". No idea if that's what they used for the actual training, though.
- tapland 7y agoBaseball is represented by 6 rules. Ultimate Frisbee is represented by 18. Quidditch is represented by 20+. Wikipedias list of sports is in the neighborhood of 1200 sports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports Excluding an extra list of 150 or so ball games. So Baseball has about an average representation of rules, whereas quidditch is weighted way higher than the average sport.
- mcphage 7y ago> So Baseball has about an average representation of rules, whereas quidditch is weighted way higher than the average sport. I'm sorry, I'm having trouble following what you mean here. Could you explain it a bit further?
- exabrial 7y ago> or an exploding Frisbee game I'm intrigued.
- chrisco255 7y agoWhat I couldn't quite grasp from the rules is how the center-gate works. Do you have to pass or kick the ball through the center gate to get to the other side or are you allowed to go around the center gate? Also, does the ball have to be kicked through the end gates on the ground or can you punt it right over? Seems like it might be hard to judge whether a goal was made since you can come at it from so many angles, if you're allowed to kick as high as you want. Reminds me more of Aussie Rules Football than Rugby, to be honest, but sans tackling.
- yeahboats 7y agoThe ball must be kicked through and must be below the tips, so no punting way over: >All gates must be cleared with a drop kick or grubber kick. >Gates must be cleared below gate tips. For the center gate, you only have to clear it to unlock scoring, looks like then you can ignore it (other than not stepping through it)
- jerf 7y ago"For the center gate, you only have to clear it to unlock scoring, looks like then you can ignore it (other than not stepping through it)" I believe you can see that idea in pick-up basketball when you only have one hoop; the opposing team who steals a ball must "clear" the ball by taking it back to some line (like the half-court line) before attempting to score, simulating a full court. In this case it is "intended" [1] to prevent you from just grabbing the ball from a scoring team and scoring immediately yourself. It adds some momentum to the game, otherwise it's rather unstable. [1]: Or, if you prefer, "without this rule Speedgate would have been much less likely to survive the winnowing process and thus been found evolutionarily unfit".
- chrisco255 7y agoAh I didn't catch that you could score on any gate. Does the ball not change hands after a score?
- 7y ago
- minimaxir 7y agoPer the embedded video (also used on the official site), they used textgenrnn (https://github.com/minimaxir/textgenrnn https://github.com/minimaxir/textgenrnn) to train the text-generating AI, which I made. Although I really wish they said that explicitly: not as a means of attribution, but to make the text generation more accessible/transparent which is why I made textgenrnn in the first place. GPT-2 would likely have much more interesting results on such longer input text. If anyone from AKQA reads this, I'm open to help setting that up.
- ANPEQ-1 7y agoA lot of digital agencies claim they have AI/ML capabilities and are really just using others' tools. It's a shame they lacked the integrity to attribute you.
- brod 7y agoIt's finding value in those tools which the agency (and most others, mine included) would be claiming to be capable of and I think to a reasonable extent they've proven that, even with a somewhat underwhelming result.
- ANPEQ-1 7y agoBy performing a self-promotional stunt? This isn't solving problems, it's riding the AI wave - and claiming the capability - while leveraging the work of others, without attribution. I mean they even use the damn program in their promotional video. I'd be much more liable to support a "We AI and you can too!" than some cynical marketing activation.
- emgee_1 7y agoI am interested if you start selling onions or tomatoes on the internet. /s
- everdev 7y agoHere's the sports official site: https://playspeedgate.org/ https://playspeedgate.org/
- tsumnia 7y agoLooking over the rules, it looks like there's an assumed "causal"-ness to the game (not good, not bad, just noting there's an assumption that everyone will play by the rules at all times). Based on the rules [1], there doesn't seem to be any consequence to fouling if you do not have the ball. What stops a non-carrying team player from stepping in the center or tackling a player? Given the current ruleset, nothing. Three fouls give you a demerit, three demerits give you a reprimand, 3 reprimands ... to infinity. Secondly, is there a difference in severity to stepping in the center vs. tackling? I get that you could say that 2 fouls is a timeout, and certain rules carry higher penalties (1 for center stepping, 2 for tackling), but it is not written. [1] https://playspeedgate.org/8/ https://playspeedgate.org/8/
- everdev 7y agoRight. And kicking a rugby ball at full strength from a short distance towards an unprotected goalie might hurt. In the video they're only lightly passing and kicking the ball.
- lone_haxx0r 7y agoThis is exactly what I thought. Being hit in the face (or genitalia) by a spherical football hurts a lot if the shooter knows how to shoot and you're relatively close. I don't want to imagine what it feels like to be hit by an ovoid ball.
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoHow else would you score? In practice you don't kick the ball at players in football (soccer) or kick/throw it at them in rugby because you might give away possession; but it's a tactic in hardball games like baseball and cricket AIUI. I've only trained as a referee in one sport and it had a "be a sportsman" element to the rules giving the ref leeway to determine that play is unbecoming of the sport and so give away a foul. But in that sport smashing the ball _at_ players is normal. Sure, if you're playing with pals, or for a promotional video then you're going to be less combatative. FWIW the rules don't say you can't knee, pull, or poke (eg in the eye!). Also, the penalty rule sounds impossible - you have to score "from the centre gate", but being in the centre gate is a foul and gives possession to the opposing team ... ah, no, wait: "Moving through the center gate will result in a foul." ... so it's fine, you just aren't allowed to leave the centre gate [does the foul activate from the time of entry or the time of exit?].
- mbell 7y agoThis doesn't seem particularly viable as a 'sport', i.e. an athletic competition, but maybe fun as a group activity. e.g. You have 3 defenders that seem to be allowed to camp without restriction a 6' tall, 10' wide 'goal'. Put 3 athletes on this duty and no one will ever score.
- everdev 7y agoMaybe it's a low scoring game like soccer or hockey.
- stevenking86 7y agoYou can score from either side so 3 can't quite block both sides if your ball movement is crisp.
- tempestn 7y agoIt does say only one defender can be in the small circle surrounding the end gate.
- dariusj18 7y agoDoes the extra goal make it a total of 3 or 5 points for the possession?
- everdev 7y agoThe ricochet turns a goal from 2 points into 3. Seems like an extreme amount of difficulty to return kick an oblong ball in the air through the gates for only 1 point.
- aidenn0 7y agoI read the rules as meaning you can catch it with any part of your body and then immediately return kick it, which would be easier.
- gwbas1c 7y agoWhat I don't get is: How much of this was created by AI, and how much is human intervention? How does the AI judge what is a good game versus a bad game?
- kristaps 7y agoThe article says that the AI generated 1k candidates which were then reviewed by humans which then selected 3 which seemed most promising and then massaged them into the final rules. Makes the "AI" part of the project look much less impressive if it took so much human input afterwards.
- dugluak 7y agoHow diverse the humans involved in the process were?
- WalterSear 7y agoIf this is AI, then so is the I-Ching.
- pbhjpbhj 7y agoIt's an interesting method of creativity though, regardless.
- machbio 7y agothere seems to be no analysis on why the size and dimension of the ball is chosen - very few games have balls that are not spherical.. seems too much human intervention in generating the Sport
- dugluak 7y agoThey picked rules from almost all kinds of sports in the world but did they have that kind of diversity in the 'human fine tuning' piece of it? Otherwise I guess the end result is going to be bit biased.
- dugluak 7y agoIs the background music in the video also AI generated?
- mkagenius 7y agoYes, it was learned by PAGAN purely-automated GAN. It can form new music by learning rules from existing music and altering them in a symbiotic manner which pleases human ear. And of course some fine tuning by humans.
- nsxwolf 7y agoLooks like a game where you get kicked in the face a lot.
- lukeholder 7y agoLooks a lot like Australian Rules Football (AFL) without the tackling.
- goldenchrome 7y agoDefinitely, this is convoluted AFL
- greenknight 7y agoExactly, But i think they dont realise how good people can get at kicking a ball. Imagine how different this game would be played in australia...
- greenknight 7y agofor those who dont know what afl is -- https://youtu.be/CCSMruUC4-o?t=12 https://youtu.be/CCSMruUC4-o?t=12
- shpx 7y agoWhat would the equivalent of the Cloud to Butt extension for "AI" be? I get annoyed every time I see this word now and I'd like to alleviate that.
- bitwize 7y agoI propose replacing "AI" with "taint" and "blockchain" with "blockchoad".
- taneq 7y ago> replacing "AI" with "taint" I think you're not getting enough credit for this one because as soon as AI works, it ain't AI any more.
- thosakwe 7y ago"AI," "machine learning," "modern," "blazing fast," and "for humans" for me.
- make3 7y agomachine learning is fine, it's meaningful technical term at least. AI doesn't mean anything
- spaceheretostay 7y agoAI is a technical term with a specific meaning: > Computer science defines AI research as the study of "intelligent agents": any device that perceives its environment and takes actions that maximize its chance of successfully achieving its goals.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
- make3 7y agoyeah, but these days AI is applied to anything related to machine learning. most of current AI is supervised learning, which doesn't fit your description
- linksnapzz 7y agoPerhaps a better use of AI would be to flesh out a comprehensive rulebook for playing 43-man Squamish. Someone needs to figure out what the Probate Judge & Baggage Smasher are supposed to do if it rains... https://www.madcoversite.com/quiz_olympics.html https://www.madcoversite.com/quiz_olympics.html
- jamesakirk 7y agoctrl-f squamish ret Thanks for being awesome!
- hwestiii 7y agoI always thought Quidditch sounded like it had been developed by an AI.
- themdonuts 7y agoSeems like they invented Gaelic Football
- hokkos 7y agoSo a "the ocho" generator. https://www.reddit.com/r/theocho/ https://www.reddit.com/r/theocho/
- kosievdmerwe 7y agoI'm not entirely sure what the restrictions on the defenders are (other than having to return to their half after their team scores), but there's an exploit I can see already: > Only 1 defender is allowed in the end-gate circle at any time. This says "defender", which is a role. So forwards would be allowed to bolster the gate's defense, which might make sense given the possession mechanic. The lack of tackling and rules about passing direction, with body blocking allowed, means that huddling a few players together and creeping up might be a viable strategy that the defending team can't really counter. It would be a valid strategy in Rugby too (where you're only allowed to tackle the ball carrier), were it not for rules against obstructing tacklers. This kind of turtling strategy seems contrary to the nature of the game, so if effective it would need nerfing/banning.
- ncallaway 7y agoI think it's an ambiguous sentence with two possible interpretations: > Only 1 defender, [but any other player] is allowed in the end-gate circle at any time. > Only 1 defender, [and no other player] is allowed in the end-gate circle at any time. I agree that it could use a clarification, but I think as you've noted the first interpretation doesn't make much sense in the game. If I were a referee of this sport, I would certainly interpret the rules as the second sentence. So, if any forward entered the circle at any time, I would penalize them for that. I would use the fact that the rules that that only defenders are allowed in the end-gate, which implies that forwards are not allowed.
- kosievdmerwe 7y agoWell the ambiguity is "defender" meaning "a player on the defending team" and "a player with the role defender". Actually the second interpretation could have an interesting effect, since it also doesn't specify team. So if the attacking team puts one of their defenders in the circle the defending team is out of luck.
- TaupeRanger 7y agoYet another "look what we did with AI" hype piece where all they did was hand pick some output and mash it together to make something intelligible. Silly nonsense.
- sports-ball 7y agoIf only they called it "sports ball" maybe then it'd stand chance of being more than the Esperanto of sports
- jonplackett 7y agoWould have been more interesting if they’d also used an AI to play each game and see how that turns out. Does the game have a simple always-win strategy? If so that games is gonna be pretty dull to play and watch.