6 ms·

Before this thread becomes a Facebook bashing session, please keep in mind that Equifax leaked all your SSN data along with names and addresses and got away wit

Before this thread becomes a Facebook bashing session, please keep in mind that Equifax leaked all your SSN data along with names and addresses and got away with no fines.

crushcrashcrush 7y ago
Leaking this data wasn't an intrinsic part of their business model.
- paxy 7y ago
  It is, even more so than Facebook. Buying and selling your personal financial data is Equifax's entire business.
jokoon 7y ago
Whataboutism...
- lordnacho 7y ago
  Similar punishment for similar transgressions is how the law is supposed to work.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Assuming those punishments are fair and just - the punishments companies have been getting lately for privacy violations have been relatively consistent - nobody is actually being punished.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > Similar punishment for similar transgressions is how the law is supposed to work. Facebook and Equifax did not commit similar transgressions, and to say to is misleading.
    - lordnacho 7y ago
      I'm not sure anyone claims that, but obviously saying "Similar punishment for similar transgressions" means that different transgressions need not have the same punishments.
  - jokoon 7y ago
    I think equifax has a "too big to fail" burden, credit scores are part of how things work in the country. And I'm not sure they're directly responsible for the leak of their data. Facebook is far from being essential, it's mostly a consumer product. There are so many voices against facebook that I don't think there would be enough public support to protect facebook.
- colordrops 7y ago
  The political think tank that promulgated the term "whataboutism" has created a bane on humanity.
  - AWildC182 7y ago
    It's not inherently bad, it's just misused a lot IMO.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy... The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland.[10][11][12] Lexicographers date the first appearance of the variant whataboutism to the 1990s[1][10] or 1970s... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=tu+quoque&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1500&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=20&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Ctu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3BTu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTu%20Quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Btu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=tu+quoque&case...
    - colordrops 7y ago
      The problem with the term "whataboutism" is that its users wield it to prevent discussion about anything that doesn't fit their agenda. In particular, its main use has been to amplify the Russiagate conspiracy which was never backed by any evidence and yet was the forefront of public attention for almost three years. If you pointed out actual evidence-based foreign influence such as that put forward by the Saudis, you were accused of "whataboutism". This was almost certainly a tactic dreamed up in a politically motivated D.C. think tank or PR firm, and has prevented fruitful discussion of countless real issues for an extended period of time.
      - dredmorbius 7y ago
        You're labouring under several grave misapprehensions. This addresses one of them: https://archive.org/details/muellerreport/page/n7 https://archive.org/details/muellerreport/page/n7
throwawaytoday5 7y ago
Can someone explain how Facebook gets a fine but Equifax doesn't? I don't understand how? Or has Equifax not been fined yet?
- cm2012 7y ago
  Facebook is a popular target right now and the subject is politically charged. That's it.
  - tschellenbach 7y ago
    Doesn't seem great that fines are determined based on how hot/not some firm is politically. I'm pretty sure someone can make a list of 100 companies that deserve more fines than Facebook.
    - throwaway2048 7y ago
      And all the connected criminals that got away ought to be punished first, I'm sure a judge will agree with the wisdom of this argument and let you go.
  - beat 7y ago
    I doubt the judge was thinking about politics. Courtrooms aren't the internet, thankfully.
- hammock 7y ago
  Same reason Martha Stewart got jail time. Ever watch Billions?
- stefan_ 7y ago
  They violated a 2011 settlement with the FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/facebook-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers-failing-keep https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/faceb...
athenot 7y ago
I am not a lawyer but intent appears to play a big role. A company that is negligent or incompetent will always face a lesser repercussion than one who acts deliberately. Now of course this is not to exonerate Equifax whose entire premise rests on safeguarding sensitive information. From the consumer side, the 2 incidents are equally bad.
- killyp 7y ago
  Not that I completely disagree with you, but lets not pretend that leaking SSN is equivalent to possibly leaking emails and passwords. One of those is far more important than the others. There was also tons of evidence of insider trading by Equifax execs. If anything the Equifax stuff proved to me that the American public doesn't care about privacy and so neither should investors.
  - bhandziuk 7y ago
    Which one are you saying is more sensitive: my ssn or my email password?
    - parthdesai 7y ago
      Is that even a question? guess what is needed when you go apply for mortgage?
    - asdffdsa 7y ago
      Email password, of course. I give out my ssn for identification to various organizations. I NEVER give out my email password to anyone except my email provider
    - MiroF 7y ago
      Hilarious that the two replies to you are exact opposite answers, and neither is the original commentator
    - Maximus9000 7y ago
      Maybe real dollar values will help this discussion: https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-is-worth-on-black-market.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-i... And gmail credentials: https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-much-your-gmail-worth-hacker https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-much-y...
JustSomeNobody 7y ago
Yes, we remember. And?
- xvector 7y ago
  Equifax needs to be fined until its existence can only be found in the history books, and its negligent management needs to be jailed for the long-term harm that they have caused. Same with Facebook. But OP's point is that the collective has too short an attention span to actually hold any of these actors to the law.
  - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
    OP Said > Before this thread becomes a Facebook bashing session, It absolutely should be a FB bashing session. Just because some company got away with something doesn't mean they all should.
    - xvector 7y ago
      > Just because some company got away with something doesn't mean they all should. I totally agree.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
So what are you saying exactly? We can’t set our eyes on Facebook because someone else is worse?
- product50 7y ago
  Precedence matters - especially for government inquiries and fines. Also, people use FB by choice today while something like Equifax is forced upon us given institutional structures. So it is unclear why Facebook is more wrong than Equifax.
  - wil421 7y ago
    Equifax being negligent and Facebook repeatedly being caught doing bad stuff is different. You need to show intent, Equifax didn’t intended to get breached. Facebook certainly intended to do all the shady stuff they’ve been caught doing.
will_brown 7y ago
Equifax did not violate the terms of a prior FTC settlement agreement in order to avoid punishment for their prior bad behavior. It’s a lot easier to expedite penalties when there is a written settlement that is being violated than original bad acts. The Equifax matter is far from over, they are being investigated by: 48 state Attorneys General offices, the District of Columbia, the FTC, the CFPB, the SEC, the Department of Justice, other U.S. state regulators, certain Congressional committees of both the Senate and House of Representatives, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, and the U.K.’s Financial Conduct Authority. Not to mention they made a recent SEC filing acknowledging they expect fines from FTC and CFPB.

Before this thread becomes a Facebook bashing session, please keep in mind that Equifax leaked all your SSN data along with names and addresses and got away with no fines.

crushcrashcrush 7y ago

Leaking this data wasn't an intrinsic part of their business model.

paxy 7y ago
It is, even more so than Facebook. Buying and selling your personal financial data is Equifax's entire business.

jokoon 7y ago

Whataboutism...

lordnacho 7y ago
Similar punishment for similar transgressions is how the law is supposed to work.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Assuming those punishments are fair and just - the punishments companies have been getting lately for privacy violations have been relatively consistent - nobody is actually being punished.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > Similar punishment for similar transgressions is how the law is supposed to work. Facebook and Equifax did not commit similar transgressions, and to say to is misleading.
  - lordnacho 7y ago
    I'm not sure anyone claims that, but obviously saying "Similar punishment for similar transgressions" means that different transgressions need not have the same punishments.
- jokoon 7y ago
  I think equifax has a "too big to fail" burden, credit scores are part of how things work in the country. And I'm not sure they're directly responsible for the leak of their data. Facebook is far from being essential, it's mostly a consumer product. There are so many voices against facebook that I don't think there would be enough public support to protect facebook.
colordrops 7y ago
The political think tank that promulgated the term "whataboutism" has created a bane on humanity.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  It's not inherently bad, it's just misused a lot IMO.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy... The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland.[10][11][12] Lexicographers date the first appearance of the variant whataboutism to the 1990s[1][10] or 1970s... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=tu+quoque&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1500&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=20&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Ctu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3BTu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BTu%20Quoque%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Btu%20quoque%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=tu+quoque&case...
  - colordrops 7y ago
    The problem with the term "whataboutism" is that its users wield it to prevent discussion about anything that doesn't fit their agenda. In particular, its main use has been to amplify the Russiagate conspiracy which was never backed by any evidence and yet was the forefront of public attention for almost three years. If you pointed out actual evidence-based foreign influence such as that put forward by the Saudis, you were accused of "whataboutism". This was almost certainly a tactic dreamed up in a politically motivated D.C. think tank or PR firm, and has prevented fruitful discussion of countless real issues for an extended period of time.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      You're labouring under several grave misapprehensions. This addresses one of them: https://archive.org/details/muellerreport/page/n7 https://archive.org/details/muellerreport/page/n7

throwawaytoday5 7y ago

Can someone explain how Facebook gets a fine but Equifax doesn't? I don't understand how? Or has Equifax not been fined yet?

cm2012 7y ago
Facebook is a popular target right now and the subject is politically charged. That's it.
- tschellenbach 7y ago
  Doesn't seem great that fines are determined based on how hot/not some firm is politically. I'm pretty sure someone can make a list of 100 companies that deserve more fines than Facebook.
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    And all the connected criminals that got away ought to be punished first, I'm sure a judge will agree with the wisdom of this argument and let you go.
- beat 7y ago
  I doubt the judge was thinking about politics. Courtrooms aren't the internet, thankfully.
hammock 7y ago
Same reason Martha Stewart got jail time. Ever watch Billions?
stefan_ 7y ago
They violated a 2011 settlement with the FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/facebook-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers-failing-keep https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2011/11/faceb...

athenot 7y ago

I am not a lawyer but intent appears to play a big role. A company that is negligent or incompetent will always face a lesser repercussion than one who acts deliberately. Now of course this is not to exonerate Equifax whose entire premise rests on safeguarding sensitive information. From the consumer side, the 2 incidents are equally bad.

killyp 7y ago
Not that I completely disagree with you, but lets not pretend that leaking SSN is equivalent to possibly leaking emails and passwords. One of those is far more important than the others. There was also tons of evidence of insider trading by Equifax execs. If anything the Equifax stuff proved to me that the American public doesn't care about privacy and so neither should investors.
- bhandziuk 7y ago
  Which one are you saying is more sensitive: my ssn or my email password?
  - parthdesai 7y ago
    Is that even a question? guess what is needed when you go apply for mortgage?
  - asdffdsa 7y ago
    Email password, of course. I give out my ssn for identification to various organizations. I NEVER give out my email password to anyone except my email provider
  - MiroF 7y ago
    Hilarious that the two replies to you are exact opposite answers, and neither is the original commentator
  - Maximus9000 7y ago
    Maybe real dollar values will help this discussion: https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-is-worth-on-black-market.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit/what-your-identity-i... And gmail credentials: https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-much-your-gmail-worth-hacker https://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2013-07/how-much-y...

JustSomeNobody 7y ago

Yes, we remember. And?

xvector 7y ago
Equifax needs to be fined until its existence can only be found in the history books, and its negligent management needs to be jailed for the long-term harm that they have caused. Same with Facebook. But OP's point is that the collective has too short an attention span to actually hold any of these actors to the law.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  OP Said > Before this thread becomes a Facebook bashing session, It absolutely should be a FB bashing session. Just because some company got away with something doesn't mean they all should.
  - xvector 7y ago
    > Just because some company got away with something doesn't mean they all should. I totally agree.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago

So what are you saying exactly? We can’t set our eyes on Facebook because someone else is worse?

product50 7y ago
Precedence matters - especially for government inquiries and fines. Also, people use FB by choice today while something like Equifax is forced upon us given institutional structures. So it is unclear why Facebook is more wrong than Equifax.
- wil421 7y ago
  Equifax being negligent and Facebook repeatedly being caught doing bad stuff is different. You need to show intent, Equifax didn’t intended to get breached. Facebook certainly intended to do all the shady stuff they’ve been caught doing.

will_brown 7y ago

Equifax did not violate the terms of a prior FTC settlement agreement in order to avoid punishment for their prior bad behavior. It’s a lot easier to expedite penalties when there is a written settlement that is being violated than original bad acts. The Equifax matter is far from over, they are being investigated by: 48 state Attorneys General offices, the District of Columbia, the FTC, the CFPB, the SEC, the Department of Justice, other U.S. state regulators, certain Congressional committees of both the Senate and House of Representatives, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, and the U.K.’s Financial Conduct Authority. Not to mention they made a recent SEC filing acknowledging they expect fines from FTC and CFPB.