4 ms·

> things aren't actually all that different in the West Really. I feel there's a massive difference between agencies background lurking looking for signs of ex

> things aren't actually all that different in the West Really. I feel there's a massive difference between agencies background lurking looking for signs of extremism to focus limited physical surveillance resources and a 'social credit score' where you ability to work a job, attend a school or catch a plane etc is based on a computer generated score on how the govt feels you should act from their surveillance.

yorwba 8y ago
> agencies background lurking looking for signs of extremism to focus limited physical surveillance resources A common pattern in stories about people interned in "reeducation camps" in Xinjiang is that they spent some time abroad, e.g. in Kazakhstan, then returned to their hometown and were arrested as terrorist suspects. E.g. https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=666287509 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=666287509 > 'social credit score' where you ability to work a job, attend a school or catch a plane etc is based on a computer generated score Such a thing does not exist yet, and although it might become reality at some point, it's all speculation so far: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social... China's surveillance capabilities are pretty similar to the West, the greatest difference is in the way that information is used, since they aren't as worried about targeting innocent people.
raxxorrax 8y ago
So just address the problems with this "limited physical surveillance" first. Because this approach got copied by many countries, sanctioned by western democracy and freedom. An approach born out of fear and incapability of interpreting data related to "extremism" while simultaneously instilling paranoia in anyone. The calculation around security is way off and created whole industries that want to keep it that way. This is the worst form of policy making in the last 50-70 years. And it has a solid head start. So yes, it would be indeed wise to keep your criticism to yourself, because it should be considered improper.
luckylion 8y ago
Austria, Germany and certainly others in the West are looking to completely outlaw online anonymity. That sounds neither focused nor limited to me.
joe_the_user 8y ago
Well, this particular article is about surveillance tech sold by China. The complain is that Chinese companies don't have the sense of responsibility that Western companies have. While I'd agree that domestically, the West doesn't have China's direct illegalizing of dissent, for the sales of tech to other nations (Saudi Arabia or China itself), claims of Western superiority seem awfully stretched.

yorwba 8y ago

> agencies background lurking looking for signs of extremism to focus limited physical surveillance resources A common pattern in stories about people interned in "reeducation camps" in Xinjiang is that they spent some time abroad, e.g. in Kazakhstan, then returned to their hometown and were arrested as terrorist suspects. E.g. https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=666287509 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=666287509 > 'social credit score' where you ability to work a job, attend a school or catch a plane etc is based on a computer generated score Such a thing does not exist yet, and although it might become reality at some point, it's all speculation so far: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social... China's surveillance capabilities are pretty similar to the West, the greatest difference is in the way that information is used, since they aren't as worried about targeting innocent people.

raxxorrax 8y ago

So just address the problems with this "limited physical surveillance" first. Because this approach got copied by many countries, sanctioned by western democracy and freedom. An approach born out of fear and incapability of interpreting data related to "extremism" while simultaneously instilling paranoia in anyone. The calculation around security is way off and created whole industries that want to keep it that way. This is the worst form of policy making in the last 50-70 years. And it has a solid head start. So yes, it would be indeed wise to keep your criticism to yourself, because it should be considered improper.

luckylion 8y ago

Austria, Germany and certainly others in the West are looking to completely outlaw online anonymity. That sounds neither focused nor limited to me.

joe_the_user 8y ago

Well, this particular article is about surveillance tech sold by China. The complain is that Chinese companies don't have the sense of responsibility that Western companies have. While I'd agree that domestically, the West doesn't have China's direct illegalizing of dissent, for the sales of tech to other nations (Saudi Arabia or China itself), claims of Western superiority seem awfully stretched.