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Google is really leaving the door open here for Apple to step in and offer a services bundle with a monthly fee that doesn’t involve stuffing advertising into e

Google is really leaving the door open here for Apple to step in and offer a services bundle with a monthly fee that doesn’t involve stuffing advertising into every nook and cranny of the user experience. I generally prefer Google’s services to Apple’s but there might be a tipping point soon where I’m willing to sacrifice some features in exchange for a generally less creepy product.

jfoster 8y ago
People have been speculating that for yonks, though. If it's such a huge opportunity for Apple and so many people want it, where is it?
- cageface 8y ago
  Apple has been very slow to expand their service offerings beyond Apple devices. Insane hardware revenues have made them complacent up until now. Their recent moves to start offering their video content on non-Apple platforms indicates that they finally understand that cross platform services are the key to their future growth IMO.
js2 8y ago
Apple maps still has a ways to go. I say this as someone who tries to use it frequently because I much prefer its UI, especially with Carplay. But it still has much worse traffic data, still sometimes sends me on weird routes through neighborhoods that don't save any time nor distance, and lately has a fun glitch where it sometimes instructs me turn left instead of right or vice/versa because it apparently thinks my vehicle is facing 180° from what it actually is. The turn glitch has now happened to me several times across two different devices. I thought I imagined it the first time.
- cageface 8y ago
  Apple maps is inferior to Google in almost every respect in Asia. I open it now and again just to see if it’s improved and always switch back immediately to Gmaps. With hardware sales slowing Apple has a lot more incentive to improve it than they did when the iPhone gravy train seemed unstoppable though.
  - maracuja-juice 8y ago
    In China I experienced that it's exactly the other way around.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      Which isn't surprising as Google is blocked in China. Also, by being blocked, they can't use the Chinese government's service to "correct" the errors that China introduces in the maps: https://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/ https://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/
    - elcomet 8y ago
      Isn't Google maps blocked in China?
      - maracuja-juice 8y ago
        It is perfectly accessible, just a not a very good map over there. Once we wanted to go to a bar but it turned out that they moved a few years ago to a completely different part of Shanghai.
  - wtmt 8y ago
    Yes, Apple Maps is inferior in Asia (speaking from India here). But it seems to be improving. I noticed that it uses many sources for maps, including TomTom. [1] I’d read maybe a year or two ago that Apple was working on improving maps in other countries, but that effort was projected to be done or getting done by 2020 or 2021. Still a long way to go, but Apple isn’t ignoring it, like it used to seem a few years ago. [1]: https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-136.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-136.html
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- gibspaulding 8y ago
  I've never used Apple maps, so I can't compare the two, but I can say that Google also really likes routing me through random twisty neighborhoods for no good reason.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
You are assuming people would pay for an ad free GMAPS. Google tried this with YouTube Red. It doesn't work. Apple users may be willing to pay for apps, Android users don't swing that way.
- cageface 8y ago
  Ad free won’t be enough. I predict there will be some kind of monthly bundle that includes a lot of different services. News, music, video and premium features on top of things like maps. Getting people to pay small amounts for a bunch of individual services is harder than charging them one lump sum per month for everything.
  - throw_away 8y ago
    Heh, following the apple branding, they could call it google+
  - snaky 8y ago
    We can imagine something like 'an iPhone experience' pack for Android, and it's technically feasible - and may attract some attention from the customers. But the question is - if you could get 'a pretty much iPhone' in your $200 Android for a couple of bucks a month, why would you ever buy an actual iPhone for $1000?
    - JohnFen 8y ago
      iPhones don't appeal to me regardless of price point. I would guess that people for whom an iPhone-like experience is appealing would buy an iPhone. You can pick up older used models in the $200 price range right now.
    - pdimitar 8y ago
      - Better battery life (if you disable background app refresh). - Unified and consistent UI (subjective but I like it). - No ads or privacy threats in general unless you try really hard to make them work on your iDevice. - Guaranteed OS updates for 5+ years. I'm probably forgetting some more. An "iPhone experience" on an Android won't be even close to an iPhone. It could be used as a tease to prompt people to switch to an iPhone, though.
gowld 8y ago
Apple gets the wealthy high margin market, Google gets the mass market. People buy iPhones to keep up with fashion, but most of them won't pay for maps because they can't show that off to their acquaintances.
- dontbenebby 8y ago
  You don't need to buy a new phone. I have an older model iPhone. It still gets security updates. I had to pay to replace the battery after a few years, but otherwise it works fine. In fact, arguably better, since it has a headphone port ;)
- hi5eyes 8y ago
  >People buy iPhones to keep up with fashion, but most of them won't pay for maps because they can't show that off to their acquaintances. juvenile take, didnt realize people still went with the apple logo meme argument
  - samirm 8y ago
    Just because it's a meme, doesn't mean it isn't at least somewhat true.
    - barbecue_sauce 8y ago
      There are high-end trend-driven Apple customers who update their hardware constantly, but there are also people who have a general preference for Apple products and update occasionally. I'm still on a 2013 MacBook Pro and an iPhone 6. Personally, hardware-wise I just like things that are a) made out of aluminum and b) have hi-dpi screens, and I appreciate a non-finicky BSD-derived OS.
- pault 8y ago
  Is that why? I thought I was buying iphones for the high quality, end-to-end user experience design, ecosystem integration, strict standards for third party apps, long-lasting hardware, and high resale value. Now I feel so silly.
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
What about HERE Maps? I don't, ahem, hear much about them anymore since they were bought by an auto consortium.
UncleMeat 8y ago
"Pay for no ads" has failed with almost every attempt. Even Google has made products to do this that haven't succeeded.
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  It sure works well with YouTube.
  - hunter23 8y ago
    Do you have evidence that Youtube Premium is giving a good ROI to Google? I always thought of it as one of their experiments that they will kill off in the not so distant future.
    - nopzor 8y ago
      I very much agree. I think they’ll kill yt premium. Even if google charges you what an average user is “worth” to them it’s a huge net negative to their business model. The users who will pay are worth a hell of a lot more to advertisers than the “average user”.
      - CamperBob2 8y ago
        So charge $50/month. Frankly, I'd probably pay it. YouTube without the ads is actually pretty nice. Unfortunately I can't argue with you and the other posters, in that it doesn't matter what they charge. If it's not seen as a positive career move to work on a given product at Google, its future is always going to be iffy. And Google is an advertising company at the end of the day, not a video streaming company. And it's certainly true that the more someone is willing to pay to avoid ads, the more valuable to advertisers that person's attention is going to be.
    - mark_l_watson 8y ago
      My wife and I pay $15/month for a family plan Play Music + ad free YouTube. How can Google not be making money on this, assuming a reasonable number of customers. I would think that Google execs are looking at Apple’s new push for integrated services and that they will compete hard. I am a happy customer of both Apple and Google but if Apple continues to come through with quality integrated services, I can see myself just living in Apple’s ‘walled garden’ in the future if they also keep supporting privacy.
mncharity 8y ago
> Google is really leaving the door open here for Apple [...] tipping point It's 202X, and you are offered AR glasses from Apple, Amazon, AT&T, Comcast, Disney, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft. With almost-always-on mics, 180-degree cameras, gaze tracking, centimeter-resolution indoor position, and hybrid local/cloud infrastructure. Who do you trust? What is the net present value of that trust?
- moftz 8y ago
  As of now, probably Apple if theirs costs a fortune compared to everyone else's glasses. At least then I know that they aren't subsidizing the cost of the glasses by selling off my information.

jfoster 8y ago

People have been speculating that for yonks, though. If it's such a huge opportunity for Apple and so many people want it, where is it?

cageface 8y ago
Apple has been very slow to expand their service offerings beyond Apple devices. Insane hardware revenues have made them complacent up until now. Their recent moves to start offering their video content on non-Apple platforms indicates that they finally understand that cross platform services are the key to their future growth IMO.

js2 8y ago

Apple maps still has a ways to go. I say this as someone who tries to use it frequently because I much prefer its UI, especially with Carplay. But it still has much worse traffic data, still sometimes sends me on weird routes through neighborhoods that don't save any time nor distance, and lately has a fun glitch where it sometimes instructs me turn left instead of right or vice/versa because it apparently thinks my vehicle is facing 180° from what it actually is. The turn glitch has now happened to me several times across two different devices. I thought I imagined it the first time.

cageface 8y ago
Apple maps is inferior to Google in almost every respect in Asia. I open it now and again just to see if it’s improved and always switch back immediately to Gmaps. With hardware sales slowing Apple has a lot more incentive to improve it than they did when the iPhone gravy train seemed unstoppable though.
- maracuja-juice 8y ago
  In China I experienced that it's exactly the other way around.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    Which isn't surprising as Google is blocked in China. Also, by being blocked, they can't use the Chinese government's service to "correct" the errors that China introduces in the maps: https://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/ https://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/
  - elcomet 8y ago
    Isn't Google maps blocked in China?
    - maracuja-juice 8y ago
      It is perfectly accessible, just a not a very good map over there. Once we wanted to go to a bar but it turned out that they moved a few years ago to a completely different part of Shanghai.
- wtmt 8y ago
  Yes, Apple Maps is inferior in Asia (speaking from India here). But it seems to be improving. I noticed that it uses many sources for maps, including TomTom. [1] I’d read maybe a year or two ago that Apple was working on improving maps in other countries, but that effort was projected to be done or getting done by 2020 or 2021. Still a long way to go, but Apple isn’t ignoring it, like it used to seem a few years ago. [1]: https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-136.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-136.html
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
gibspaulding 8y ago
I've never used Apple maps, so I can't compare the two, but I can say that Google also really likes routing me through random twisty neighborhoods for no good reason.

Tsubasachan 8y ago

You are assuming people would pay for an ad free GMAPS. Google tried this with YouTube Red. It doesn't work. Apple users may be willing to pay for apps, Android users don't swing that way.

cageface 8y ago
Ad free won’t be enough. I predict there will be some kind of monthly bundle that includes a lot of different services. News, music, video and premium features on top of things like maps. Getting people to pay small amounts for a bunch of individual services is harder than charging them one lump sum per month for everything.
- throw_away 8y ago
  Heh, following the apple branding, they could call it google+
- snaky 8y ago
  We can imagine something like 'an iPhone experience' pack for Android, and it's technically feasible - and may attract some attention from the customers. But the question is - if you could get 'a pretty much iPhone' in your $200 Android for a couple of bucks a month, why would you ever buy an actual iPhone for $1000?
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    iPhones don't appeal to me regardless of price point. I would guess that people for whom an iPhone-like experience is appealing would buy an iPhone. You can pick up older used models in the $200 price range right now.
  - pdimitar 8y ago
    - Better battery life (if you disable background app refresh). - Unified and consistent UI (subjective but I like it). - No ads or privacy threats in general unless you try really hard to make them work on your iDevice. - Guaranteed OS updates for 5+ years. I'm probably forgetting some more. An "iPhone experience" on an Android won't be even close to an iPhone. It could be used as a tease to prompt people to switch to an iPhone, though.

gowld 8y ago

Apple gets the wealthy high margin market, Google gets the mass market. People buy iPhones to keep up with fashion, but most of them won't pay for maps because they can't show that off to their acquaintances.

dontbenebby 8y ago
You don't need to buy a new phone. I have an older model iPhone. It still gets security updates. I had to pay to replace the battery after a few years, but otherwise it works fine. In fact, arguably better, since it has a headphone port ;)
hi5eyes 8y ago
>People buy iPhones to keep up with fashion, but most of them won't pay for maps because they can't show that off to their acquaintances. juvenile take, didnt realize people still went with the apple logo meme argument
- samirm 8y ago
  Just because it's a meme, doesn't mean it isn't at least somewhat true.
  - barbecue_sauce 8y ago
    There are high-end trend-driven Apple customers who update their hardware constantly, but there are also people who have a general preference for Apple products and update occasionally. I'm still on a 2013 MacBook Pro and an iPhone 6. Personally, hardware-wise I just like things that are a) made out of aluminum and b) have hi-dpi screens, and I appreciate a non-finicky BSD-derived OS.
pault 8y ago
Is that why? I thought I was buying iphones for the high quality, end-to-end user experience design, ecosystem integration, strict standards for third party apps, long-lasting hardware, and high resale value. Now I feel so silly.

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

What about HERE Maps? I don't, ahem, hear much about them anymore since they were bought by an auto consortium.

UncleMeat 8y ago

"Pay for no ads" has failed with almost every attempt. Even Google has made products to do this that haven't succeeded.

CamperBob2 8y ago
It sure works well with YouTube.
- hunter23 8y ago
  Do you have evidence that Youtube Premium is giving a good ROI to Google? I always thought of it as one of their experiments that they will kill off in the not so distant future.
  - nopzor 8y ago
    I very much agree. I think they’ll kill yt premium. Even if google charges you what an average user is “worth” to them it’s a huge net negative to their business model. The users who will pay are worth a hell of a lot more to advertisers than the “average user”.
    - CamperBob2 8y ago
      So charge $50/month. Frankly, I'd probably pay it. YouTube without the ads is actually pretty nice. Unfortunately I can't argue with you and the other posters, in that it doesn't matter what they charge. If it's not seen as a positive career move to work on a given product at Google, its future is always going to be iffy. And Google is an advertising company at the end of the day, not a video streaming company. And it's certainly true that the more someone is willing to pay to avoid ads, the more valuable to advertisers that person's attention is going to be.
  - mark_l_watson 8y ago
    My wife and I pay $15/month for a family plan Play Music + ad free YouTube. How can Google not be making money on this, assuming a reasonable number of customers. I would think that Google execs are looking at Apple’s new push for integrated services and that they will compete hard. I am a happy customer of both Apple and Google but if Apple continues to come through with quality integrated services, I can see myself just living in Apple’s ‘walled garden’ in the future if they also keep supporting privacy.

mncharity 8y ago

> Google is really leaving the door open here for Apple [...] tipping point It's 202X, and you are offered AR glasses from Apple, Amazon, AT&T, Comcast, Disney, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft. With almost-always-on mics, 180-degree cameras, gaze tracking, centimeter-resolution indoor position, and hybrid local/cloud infrastructure. Who do you trust? What is the net present value of that trust?

moftz 8y ago
As of now, probably Apple if theirs costs a fortune compared to everyone else's glasses. At least then I know that they aren't subsidizing the cost of the glasses by selling off my information.