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Interesting to see how/if the cable companies respond to the resolution wars - last time I checked the only one offering 4k was DirecTV, with everyone else stil

Interesting to see how/if the cable companies respond to the resolution wars - last time I checked the only one offering 4k was DirecTV, with everyone else still at 1080 Newer stuff upscaled from 1080 generally looks fine to my increasingly middle-aged eyes, but content filmed on older cameras looks awful at 4k (Law and Order springs to mind)

fullshark 8y ago
When the tech demos in stores made the main use case how clear newspaper text looks in 4k instead of 1080p i realized we probably had reached the end of the TV resolution S-curve.
- melling 8y ago
  Guess they should have shown you the larger color space? https://nofilmschool.com/2013/07/4k-uhd-color-space-gamut-frame-rate https://nofilmschool.com/2013/07/4k-uhd-color-space-gamut-fr... Personally, I'd like a nice large wall size screen where I can "spread out my work" and read it. Throw in a Minority Report interface so I'm not stuck with a mouse and keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFeCgoep1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFeCgoep1c
  - teddyh 8y ago
    > Personally, I'd like a nice large wall size screen where I can "spread out my work" and read it. > Throw in a Minority Report interface so I'm not stuck with a mouse and keyboard: Remember the gorilla arm. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html
    - melling 8y ago
      Sure. That was almost 2 decades ago. We've given it some more thought. https://atap.google.com/soli/ https://atap.google.com/soli/
      - teddyh 8y ago
        Maybe that specific technology allows users to rest their arms on top of something while gesturing (even though it is not shown in any of the demo videos), but you specifically asked for a “Minority Report interface”, which does not do that.
        bduerst 8y ago
        Soli uses radar, so the scale of minority report is achievable. It's just that the target use case with soli is geared towards gesturing at your mobile device.
        teddyh 8y ago
        I’ve no idea what your argument is. My point is that a “Minority Report interface”, which you specifically wanted, is hampered by the “gorilla arm” problem. You pointed to the Google Soli thing, but that does not (from what I can tell) seem to solve the gorilla arm problem either, and even if it did, a “Minority Report interface” would still have the gorilla arm problem.
        melling 8y ago
        I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. I simply said "Minority Report interface" to help people visualize the idea. How about Iron Man's Jarvis? Would you have had a silly little rant over that too? [Update] Jarvis video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7RCJvoCMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7RCJvoCMc
        teddyh 8y ago
        > I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. I would think that it’s hard to do those without the gorilla arm problem, since I haven’t seen any without it. If you have, please elaborate. > Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. Sure, those are no problem for the arms. But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer. But, sure, that’s a different problem. > How about Iron Man's Jarvis? The movies (of which your linked clip is a representative sample) essentially show a Minority Report-style interface with a holographic display instead of a large flat display. Nothing about the gestures themselves changes, so from what I can tell, it, too, would have the gorilla arm problem if it were to be used for any length of time. > Would you have had a silly little rant over that too? I really don’t think anything I wrote deserved that jab.
  - asdff 7y ago
    Projector?
martin_bech 8y ago
Streaming is where its at. Disney+ will be 4k hdr. All Netflix's own stuff is 4k hdr. And now stuff like F1 racing is also streamable in 4k.
- overcast 8y ago
  Resolution isn't an indication of image quality. Just like megapixel chasing in photography. Sure it's 4k, but it's heavily compressed, just like the terrible audio quality you get still to this day. They aren't streaming you 100GB.
  - rhino369 8y ago
    It’s been a long time since I took a class on compression, but I wonder if 4K has worse image quality than 1080P at the same bitrate. Anyone know?
    - tincholio 8y ago
      It will depend on a bunch of things (codec used, encoding parameters, size of the screen, etc.), but most likely yes.
    - ska 8y ago
      All else being equal, yes. The devil is very much in the details though.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      It depends on how restrictive the bitrate was to begin with. Higher bitrates mean there's more data to move from mini-improvements over to filling in extra resolution. Lower bitrates mean you're already squeezing every drop out and the codec will collapse when asked to handle more pixels. Here's a couple charts: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/4332/files/optimal_bitrate_4_grande.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/4332/files/optimal_bi... https://di2vvsisz3gt1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/08193649/fb8f7-1MM2gim3HrryC-djD3mYGBw.png https://di2vvsisz3gt1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018... It's possible to design a codec to handle that kind of detail scaling internally, but I don't think it's been a big priority.
y-c-o-m-b 8y ago
> Newer stuff upscaled from 1080 generally looks fine to my increasingly middle-aged eyes, but content filmed on older cameras looks awful at 4k You might find this interesting https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/15/star-trek-fan-tests-using-ai-upscaling-on-deep-space-nine-clips/ https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/15/star-trek-fan-tests-using-a...
- arprocter 8y ago
  The re-scanning film point wasn't something I had thought about Funny they mentioned NTSC being poor quality - I used to know someone who did work with Philips and he said they'd refer to it as Never The Same Color
iwasakabukiman 8y ago
A good portion of cable isn’t even 1080p/i. Many cable companies squish things down to 720p/i to minimize bandwidth and shove more channels into their lineups.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  And the compression - good gawd. I recently upgrade to a 4k OLED TV, and watching cable TV almost hurts - the blacks in Game of Thrones are painfully crushed, incredibly splotchy messes due to the compression.
  - asdff 7y ago
    If its any consolation the stream isn't much better
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      That's no consolation at all. Why can't we have nice things?
BenMorganIO 8y ago
Except film produced with film. Godfather is supposed to look spectacular since it was film, Star Wars though needs a lot more work.
- jacobush 8y ago
  Don't get me started on nitro black and white film. It has an insane resolution.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

fullshark 8y ago

When the tech demos in stores made the main use case how clear newspaper text looks in 4k instead of 1080p i realized we probably had reached the end of the TV resolution S-curve.

melling 8y ago
Guess they should have shown you the larger color space? https://nofilmschool.com/2013/07/4k-uhd-color-space-gamut-frame-rate https://nofilmschool.com/2013/07/4k-uhd-color-space-gamut-fr... Personally, I'd like a nice large wall size screen where I can "spread out my work" and read it. Throw in a Minority Report interface so I'm not stuck with a mouse and keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFeCgoep1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SFeCgoep1c
- teddyh 8y ago
  > Personally, I'd like a nice large wall size screen where I can "spread out my work" and read it. > Throw in a Minority Report interface so I'm not stuck with a mouse and keyboard: Remember the gorilla arm. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html
  - melling 8y ago
    Sure. That was almost 2 decades ago. We've given it some more thought. https://atap.google.com/soli/ https://atap.google.com/soli/
    - teddyh 8y ago
      Maybe that specific technology allows users to rest their arms on top of something while gesturing (even though it is not shown in any of the demo videos), but you specifically asked for a “Minority Report interface”, which does not do that.
      - bduerst 8y ago
        Soli uses radar, so the scale of minority report is achievable. It's just that the target use case with soli is geared towards gesturing at your mobile device.
        teddyh 8y ago
        I’ve no idea what your argument is. My point is that a “Minority Report interface”, which you specifically wanted, is hampered by the “gorilla arm” problem. You pointed to the Google Soli thing, but that does not (from what I can tell) seem to solve the gorilla arm problem either, and even if it did, a “Minority Report interface” would still have the gorilla arm problem.
        melling 8y ago
        I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. I simply said "Minority Report interface" to help people visualize the idea. How about Iron Man's Jarvis? Would you have had a silly little rant over that too? [Update] Jarvis video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7RCJvoCMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7RCJvoCMc
        teddyh 8y ago
        > I guess I should have simply said gesture UI. I would think that it’s hard to do those without the gorilla arm problem, since I haven’t seen any without it. If you have, please elaborate. > Of course, I'd like eye-tracking and voice UI too. Sure, those are no problem for the arms. But, IIRC, people whose job it is to talk all day have been shown to have a higher rate of vocal cord cancer. But, sure, that’s a different problem. > How about Iron Man's Jarvis? The movies (of which your linked clip is a representative sample) essentially show a Minority Report-style interface with a holographic display instead of a large flat display. Nothing about the gestures themselves changes, so from what I can tell, it, too, would have the gorilla arm problem if it were to be used for any length of time. > Would you have had a silly little rant over that too? I really don’t think anything I wrote deserved that jab.
- asdff 7y ago
  Projector?

martin_bech 8y ago

Streaming is where its at. Disney+ will be 4k hdr. All Netflix's own stuff is 4k hdr. And now stuff like F1 racing is also streamable in 4k.

overcast 8y ago
Resolution isn't an indication of image quality. Just like megapixel chasing in photography. Sure it's 4k, but it's heavily compressed, just like the terrible audio quality you get still to this day. They aren't streaming you 100GB.
- rhino369 8y ago
  It’s been a long time since I took a class on compression, but I wonder if 4K has worse image quality than 1080P at the same bitrate. Anyone know?
  - tincholio 8y ago
    It will depend on a bunch of things (codec used, encoding parameters, size of the screen, etc.), but most likely yes.
  - ska 8y ago
    All else being equal, yes. The devil is very much in the details though.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    It depends on how restrictive the bitrate was to begin with. Higher bitrates mean there's more data to move from mini-improvements over to filling in extra resolution. Lower bitrates mean you're already squeezing every drop out and the codec will collapse when asked to handle more pixels. Here's a couple charts: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/4332/files/optimal_bitrate_4_grande.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0095/4332/files/optimal_bi... https://di2vvsisz3gt1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/08193649/fb8f7-1MM2gim3HrryC-djD3mYGBw.png https://di2vvsisz3gt1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018... It's possible to design a codec to handle that kind of detail scaling internally, but I don't think it's been a big priority.

y-c-o-m-b 8y ago

> Newer stuff upscaled from 1080 generally looks fine to my increasingly middle-aged eyes, but content filmed on older cameras looks awful at 4k You might find this interesting https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/15/star-trek-fan-tests-using-ai-upscaling-on-deep-space-nine-clips/ https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/15/star-trek-fan-tests-using-a...

arprocter 8y ago
The re-scanning film point wasn't something I had thought about Funny they mentioned NTSC being poor quality - I used to know someone who did work with Philips and he said they'd refer to it as Never The Same Color

iwasakabukiman 8y ago

A good portion of cable isn’t even 1080p/i. Many cable companies squish things down to 720p/i to minimize bandwidth and shove more channels into their lineups.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
And the compression - good gawd. I recently upgrade to a 4k OLED TV, and watching cable TV almost hurts - the blacks in Game of Thrones are painfully crushed, incredibly splotchy messes due to the compression.
- asdff 7y ago
  If its any consolation the stream isn't much better
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    That's no consolation at all. Why can't we have nice things?

BenMorganIO 8y ago

Except film produced with film. Godfather is supposed to look spectacular since it was film, Star Wars though needs a lot more work.

jacobush 8y ago
Don't get me started on nitro black and white film. It has an insane resolution.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]