8 ms·

Work harder or the communists will win

116 points by doppp 8y ago

locklock 8y ago
One of @jason's tweets in the same thread says "#996 = 6 days a week, 9am to 9pm The same exact work ethic that built America!" Given that slaves built most of America, he kind of has a point, but not for the reasons he wants to have a point. It's so laughable to see venture capitalists appeal to some imagined moral imperative ("democracy vs. communism," which as DHH points out might have been a bit scarier in 1950) when in reality they're just arguing for shaping the system in a way that will ultimately make them more money.
- kypro 8y ago
  > Given that slaves built most of America Where did you learn that?
  - umadon 8y ago
    Not in American schools, certainly.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Well certainly the slave and cotton trade was a dominating part of the early American economy. >The average slave owner held almost two-thirds of his wealth in slaves in 1860, much less than he held in land. https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/cotton-economy-south https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers... "America was built on slavery" is obviously a bit of hyperbole, but given the economic boost to agriculture in the south built on the backs of African slaves, or the literal building of the east-west infrastructure on the backs of Chinese ones, I don't think it's an unfair claim.
  - rudiv 8y ago
    Perhaps not literally built but built off the backs of slaves, definitely.
  - consz 8y ago
    Prior to the civil war, slaves were the single largest asset, by value, that America held -- more than it's land or agricultural exports; more than it's railroads, banks, or factories. Cotton was the number one export across all of America, not just the south, at that time. And it's not like this value was destroyed by the civil war -- post-slavery institutions were extraordinarily effective at restoring or keeping pre-slavery conditions long after the end of the civil war. The slaves may not have physically built most of America -- but it's silly to suggest America's wealth isn't largely, perhaps primarily, born from the fruits of slavery. For sources, feel free to examine any modern history book.
gnulinux 8y ago
It is absolutely ridiculous to me there are still people consider China communist. It's especially hilarious when the discussion is about a hyper-rich patron Jack Ma talking about how his workers should work. It's not about capitalism vs communism; it's about capitalism vs capitalism.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Liberal market capitalism vs totalitarian state-coordinated capitalism.
  - lordnacho 8y ago
    In reality the level of state coordination is quite high in many countries normally considered free markets.
    - carnagii 8y ago
      The amount (edit: percent) of GDP directly allocated by the Federal and State governments in the U.S. is greater than it ever was in the Soviet Union or China.
      - dgudkov 8y ago
        I did some fact checking. As per www.imf.org: US General government total expenditure as Percent of GDP - %35.2 (2016) China General government total expenditure as Percent of GDP - %31.9 (2016)
- donquichotte 8y ago
  This has been bothering me for a long time. Many formerly communist countries, e.g. Vietnam, have unleashed the purest form of capitalism possible, where positive feedback loops make the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer. No labor laws, corruption and salary ratios of 1:1000 within one company - it would be a true nightmare for the ideological socialist elite of the early 1900 to see what has become of their dream of equality.
elliotec 8y ago
He’s right. What an absolutely disgusting and toxic idea to work more than we do, at all. Of course it’s the biggest CEOs and VCs advocating for the rest of us to work our lives away.
ithinkinstereo 8y ago
Jason's logic is pretty poor. If winning is just a numbers game (quantity of hours > quality hours), then how can we possibly compete when our population size is a quarter of China's? Of all the consistently inane VC tweets, this one takes the cake.
- elliotec 8y ago
  Logic is a pretty strong word for that BS he’s spewing. It’s really oddly blatantly working class exploitation propaganda by a (super) rich dude who benefits from the exploitation.
defertoreptar 8y ago
Under capitalism, if you want to work 70 weeks, you can. That's true. However, capitalism is about people having the freedom to make their own decisions on how they conduct their life, and the "invisible hand" that the system tends to push the economy in a positive direction. An example would be how there is a financial incentive to not work employees over so many hours since that can decrease their efficiency. Another would be how if you have at least two firms, all other things being equal, the worker will choose to go the the one with more favorable work conditions.
- lawlessone 8y ago
  >all other things being equal, the worker will choose to go the the one with more favorable work conditions. Assume the cow is a sphere.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    And it has no student loans.
- komali2 8y ago
  >An example would be how there is a financial incentive to not work employees over so many hours since that can decrease their efficiency. Why does their efficiency matter if they're at the office for 10 hours anyway? I've never seen evidence of the invisible hand helping anyone but the owners.
  - rudiv 8y ago
    To workers, the invisible hand is hovering in the middle of the their field of vision, slowly doing the jerk-off motion.
  - defertoreptar 8y ago
    > I've never seen evidence of the invisible hand helping anyone but the owners. Just look around you. Adjusted for inflation, the median annual income in 1920 was $41,544. For 2018, it hit $61,372. The median person these days has $20,000 worth of more stuff now than they did 100 years ago. That's only possible because of growth, and the trade and competition that goes with it. That competition has driven down costs and drove innovation. We have luxuries people couldn't have dreamt of back then: phones, grocery stores stocked full of food, safe jobs, drugs and medical treatments that would seem like sci-fi.
a3n 8y ago
Owner: "To your hammers and tongs! To your assembly lines! To your cubicles! I need more wealth and leisure time!" As we're structured, economically and socially, corps must grow. One of the last things they have left on the table is our time beyond 40 hours.
- pizzazzaro 8y ago
  This isnt new. This isnt even from the early 20th century, when the western world organized its labour. It is much, much older: https://youtu.be/E4CI2vk3ugk https://youtu.be/E4CI2vk3ugk
el_cujo 8y ago
I think the author didn't go far enough, I'd like to see more serious discussion of a 4 day/30 hour work week being widely implemented.
- birdman3131 8y ago
  I would love to work 4 10 hour shifts. Same amount of work weekly but an extra day to rest and do stuff.
  - metalchianti 8y ago
    While I would also prefer this, I also wonder if a 5-hour/7 day week would lead to more productivity and a better work-life balance. This would definitely require more strict work hours and would necessitate more remote work to reduce time spent commuting, etc.
    - piva00 8y ago
      No! No 7 days a week of work, that isn't good that doesn't matter how long you work, I want free days, I don't want to wake up everyday thinking about work, thank you...
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        > I don't want to wake up everyday thinking about work Wait... you don't already?
      - trickstra 8y ago
        Anything is possible, as long as you are in a position to negotiate the contract your way. I personally chose 5 days 6 hours over 4 days 8 hours because I can work in the afternoon (hate waking up early) and 8 hour days are making me really unproductive.
    - karmakaze 8y ago
      Off-peak-hour commuting happiness. But I'm thinking 5x 7 hour days including an hour lunch.
thundergolfer 8y ago
Calacanis's stuff is so buffoonish I second-guess whether I believe he's sincere in his unquestioning adoration of capitalism. "democracy vs. communism"? Just asinine stuff.
__void 8y ago
This is not an article but a cold war style capitalist sermon.
yardie 8y ago
Does Calacanis do anything beyond hop on the occasional podcast or talking head show? As an investor his fortunes are tied to making you work the maximum while paying as little as possible. As an employee your fortunes are tied to your physical and mental health. Both objectives are only aligned under creating a product that sells. I also don't take anything Jack Ma says seriously. He is a member of the CCP. The CCP determines who the winners and losers are, rarely is the market consulted.
tomxor 8y ago
> Accepting the terms of engagement by your so-called opponent is a basic, rookie mistake in any form of strategic out-maneuvering. Not only is copying the Chinese work ethic a rookie mistake as a strategic generalisation, but 996 is a completely flawed strategy for cognitive work - it's a relic passed over from manual labor - treating programmers as cogs in a cotton mill is not a good long term strategy, they will create a world of shit for themselves, I think this fact is probably intuitive to any programmer reading.
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  996 would completely burn out almost everyone within, say, five years, but if you have teeming masses of desperate job applicants to replace the burnouts then that might not be as much of a problem for management as you might think. Companies like Amazon and Netflix in the US are certainly no stranger to the "chew em up and spit em out" strategy and it seems to work out pretty well for them. It's even basically the same situation, with prestige and money attracting an endless queue of applicants.
  - tomxor 8y ago
    That's not what I meant (although an understandable interpretation)... what I mean is this strategy is not sustainable because cognitive jobs are increasingly less about the immediate problem and more about the long term problem, driving people to work long hours addresses short term - but ensuring people have the full power of their faculties available will allow them to make decisions and create solutions that work long term.
- pizzazzaro 8y ago
  US and western labour are not going to compete with China in terms of scale, even when adopting Chinese 996-icu labor practices. Where the west has always dominated has been in innovation - something sleep/leisure deprived workers are always bad at doing. Now we're giving that up because some venture capitalist who can never wrap their head around what we do says "its a good idea"?! Its the Soviet Nail Factory, all over again.
umadon 8y ago
So what do you do with types like Calacanis in the better world you might envision?
- komali2 8y ago
  I don't think this better world involves much of anyone deciding for Calacanis what he will be doing, but rather leaving him to his own devices.
  - umadon 8y ago
    What would compel these people to give up some of their riches for the well being of your average worker, though? Voting? Asking nicely?
    - komali2 8y ago
      Cultural indoctrination. So yes, asking nicely. It's why I believe billionaires should be liquidated, no? Repeat en masse.
    - cannonedhamster 8y ago
      If history is any indication, bloodshed. When those with the power get more than they're fair share, the public tends to fix the balance by removing those with too much power.
    - brianpgordon 8y ago
      Is this actually a good faith question? You know perfectly well that we compel everyone to pay taxes all of the time. This isn't a hard concept.
jnordwick 8y ago
I see HN had basically turned into an anti capitalist mess too.
throwaway_9168 8y ago
"If you define winning solely as “who has the greater growth”, you’ve already lost. If you dismiss the standard of living enjoyed in Europe – one without medical bankruptcies, crushing college debts, or falling life expectancies – as a “retirement society”, you’re the one who deserves to be dismissed." I agree with DHH's overall viewpoint. And Jason's portrayal of this issue as a "us Vs them" is idiotic. But it is hard to overlook one point - if you were to choose to incorporate in one country today, the de facto choice is the US. When was the last time you heard someone who wasn't born in those countries say "Yeah! Lets incorporate in Denmark (where DHH was born) or Spain (where he currently resides, according to Wikipedia)"? And Basecamp itself is apparently incorporated in the US. There is probably a reason why Stripe Atlas doesn't take your money and decide they will open up an office for you in Switzerland. Europe does seem to enjoy an excellent standard of living - good for them. But no one wants to immigrate to European countries because they think it is a "land of opportunity", at least not in the sense they do (or used to before Trump) when they immigrate to the US. The CEOs of some of the tech giants are first generation immigrants from developing countries. I don't see that happening in any European country in the near future. The success of these CEOs, by many accounts, is also directly related to their workaholic tendencies. And I am not sure if they are really exceptions (in the sense that other migrants who became CEOs at a much smaller scale can just afford to be bumming around). The success of these CEOs are signs of the same ambition and growth too. Besides, there are some who think the issues pointed out by DHH as America's failing is actually because America wants to have its cake (high living standards) and eat it too (high growth powered by capitalist ventures) and turned into a confused mess. Well, clearly that doesn't seem possible in today's world for whatever reasons, but it isn't as if any country in Europe has managed to pull off both either.
- luckylion 8y ago
  > But no one wants to immigrate to European countries because they think it is a "land of opportunity" At least no one with a high market value, yeah. I agree in general, Europe's model is very different from that of the US, it's much more stable, less flexible, much slower moving, more regulated, with higher taxes. You don't rise quite as high, you don't fall quite as low. It's "move fast and break things" vs "don't break things, move at an appropriate speed".
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
RickJWagner 8y ago
Oh, please. Another article that bashes at capitalism. I really wonder what the author's intent is? Right now (this instant!) there are hoardes of people trying to work their way into the United States. Why? The chance for a better life and more economic success. All this because of what? Capitalism! On the other hand, it doesn't seem like there are many people rushing to get into Venezuela these days....
mnm1 8y ago
"We can choose to become a retirement community like Europe" Sounds pretty fucking amazing to me. How do we choose to do this? The more like Europe we become, the better life will be for millions of people. The path seems to be to ignore idiots like Calanis and Ma and their stupid ranting bullshit. Better for millions to live nice lives than for one scumbag like Calanis or Ma to become a multi-millionaire / billionaire. These motherfuckers have nothing to add to the conversation and frankly, people that follow their "work harder" advice are either incredibly stupid or beyond desperate. I don't think we need to be either in the US although I'm sure those morons and other morons who follow them will disagree.

116 points by doppp 8y ago

One of @jason's tweets in the same thread says "#996 = 6 days a week, 9am to 9pm The same exact work ethic that built America!" Given that slaves built most of America, he kind of has a point, but not for the reasons he wants to have a point. It's so laughable to see venture capitalists appeal to some imagined moral imperative ("democracy vs. communism," which as DHH points out might have been a bit scarier in 1950) when in reality they're just arguing for shaping the system in a way that will ultimately make them more money.

kypro 8y ago
> Given that slaves built most of America Where did you learn that?
- umadon 8y ago
  Not in American schools, certainly.
- komali2 8y ago
  Well certainly the slave and cotton trade was a dominating part of the early American economy. >The average slave owner held almost two-thirds of his wealth in slaves in 1860, much less than he held in land. https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/cotton-economy-south https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers... "America was built on slavery" is obviously a bit of hyperbole, but given the economic boost to agriculture in the south built on the backs of African slaves, or the literal building of the east-west infrastructure on the backs of Chinese ones, I don't think it's an unfair claim.
- rudiv 8y ago
  Perhaps not literally built but built off the backs of slaves, definitely.
- consz 8y ago
  Prior to the civil war, slaves were the single largest asset, by value, that America held -- more than it's land or agricultural exports; more than it's railroads, banks, or factories. Cotton was the number one export across all of America, not just the south, at that time. And it's not like this value was destroyed by the civil war -- post-slavery institutions were extraordinarily effective at restoring or keeping pre-slavery conditions long after the end of the civil war. The slaves may not have physically built most of America -- but it's silly to suggest America's wealth isn't largely, perhaps primarily, born from the fruits of slavery. For sources, feel free to examine any modern history book.

gnulinux 8y ago

It is absolutely ridiculous to me there are still people consider China communist. It's especially hilarious when the discussion is about a hyper-rich patron Jack Ma talking about how his workers should work. It's not about capitalism vs communism; it's about capitalism vs capitalism.

hannasanarion 8y ago
Liberal market capitalism vs totalitarian state-coordinated capitalism.
- lordnacho 8y ago
  In reality the level of state coordination is quite high in many countries normally considered free markets.
  - carnagii 8y ago
    The amount (edit: percent) of GDP directly allocated by the Federal and State governments in the U.S. is greater than it ever was in the Soviet Union or China.
    - dgudkov 8y ago
      I did some fact checking. As per www.imf.org: US General government total expenditure as Percent of GDP - %35.2 (2016) China General government total expenditure as Percent of GDP - %31.9 (2016)
donquichotte 8y ago
This has been bothering me for a long time. Many formerly communist countries, e.g. Vietnam, have unleashed the purest form of capitalism possible, where positive feedback loops make the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer. No labor laws, corruption and salary ratios of 1:1000 within one company - it would be a true nightmare for the ideological socialist elite of the early 1900 to see what has become of their dream of equality.

elliotec 8y ago

He’s right. What an absolutely disgusting and toxic idea to work more than we do, at all. Of course it’s the biggest CEOs and VCs advocating for the rest of us to work our lives away.

ithinkinstereo 8y ago

Jason's logic is pretty poor. If winning is just a numbers game (quantity of hours > quality hours), then how can we possibly compete when our population size is a quarter of China's? Of all the consistently inane VC tweets, this one takes the cake.

elliotec 8y ago
Logic is a pretty strong word for that BS he’s spewing. It’s really oddly blatantly working class exploitation propaganda by a (super) rich dude who benefits from the exploitation.

defertoreptar 8y ago

Under capitalism, if you want to work 70 weeks, you can. That's true. However, capitalism is about people having the freedom to make their own decisions on how they conduct their life, and the "invisible hand" that the system tends to push the economy in a positive direction. An example would be how there is a financial incentive to not work employees over so many hours since that can decrease their efficiency. Another would be how if you have at least two firms, all other things being equal, the worker will choose to go the the one with more favorable work conditions.

lawlessone 8y ago
>all other things being equal, the worker will choose to go the the one with more favorable work conditions. Assume the cow is a sphere.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  And it has no student loans.
komali2 8y ago
>An example would be how there is a financial incentive to not work employees over so many hours since that can decrease their efficiency. Why does their efficiency matter if they're at the office for 10 hours anyway? I've never seen evidence of the invisible hand helping anyone but the owners.
- rudiv 8y ago
  To workers, the invisible hand is hovering in the middle of the their field of vision, slowly doing the jerk-off motion.
- defertoreptar 8y ago
  > I've never seen evidence of the invisible hand helping anyone but the owners. Just look around you. Adjusted for inflation, the median annual income in 1920 was $41,544. For 2018, it hit $61,372. The median person these days has $20,000 worth of more stuff now than they did 100 years ago. That's only possible because of growth, and the trade and competition that goes with it. That competition has driven down costs and drove innovation. We have luxuries people couldn't have dreamt of back then: phones, grocery stores stocked full of food, safe jobs, drugs and medical treatments that would seem like sci-fi.

a3n 8y ago

Owner: "To your hammers and tongs! To your assembly lines! To your cubicles! I need more wealth and leisure time!" As we're structured, economically and socially, corps must grow. One of the last things they have left on the table is our time beyond 40 hours.

pizzazzaro 8y ago
This isnt new. This isnt even from the early 20th century, when the western world organized its labour. It is much, much older: https://youtu.be/E4CI2vk3ugk https://youtu.be/E4CI2vk3ugk

el_cujo 8y ago

I think the author didn't go far enough, I'd like to see more serious discussion of a 4 day/30 hour work week being widely implemented.

birdman3131 8y ago
I would love to work 4 10 hour shifts. Same amount of work weekly but an extra day to rest and do stuff.
- metalchianti 8y ago
  While I would also prefer this, I also wonder if a 5-hour/7 day week would lead to more productivity and a better work-life balance. This would definitely require more strict work hours and would necessitate more remote work to reduce time spent commuting, etc.
  - piva00 8y ago
    No! No 7 days a week of work, that isn't good that doesn't matter how long you work, I want free days, I don't want to wake up everyday thinking about work, thank you...
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > I don't want to wake up everyday thinking about work Wait... you don't already?
    - trickstra 8y ago
      Anything is possible, as long as you are in a position to negotiate the contract your way. I personally chose 5 days 6 hours over 4 days 8 hours because I can work in the afternoon (hate waking up early) and 8 hour days are making me really unproductive.
  - karmakaze 8y ago
    Off-peak-hour commuting happiness. But I'm thinking 5x 7 hour days including an hour lunch.

thundergolfer 8y ago

Calacanis's stuff is so buffoonish I second-guess whether I believe he's sincere in his unquestioning adoration of capitalism. "democracy vs. communism"? Just asinine stuff.

__void 8y ago

This is not an article but a cold war style capitalist sermon.

yardie 8y ago

Does Calacanis do anything beyond hop on the occasional podcast or talking head show? As an investor his fortunes are tied to making you work the maximum while paying as little as possible. As an employee your fortunes are tied to your physical and mental health. Both objectives are only aligned under creating a product that sells. I also don't take anything Jack Ma says seriously. He is a member of the CCP. The CCP determines who the winners and losers are, rarely is the market consulted.

tomxor 8y ago

> Accepting the terms of engagement by your so-called opponent is a basic, rookie mistake in any form of strategic out-maneuvering. Not only is copying the Chinese work ethic a rookie mistake as a strategic generalisation, but 996 is a completely flawed strategy for cognitive work - it's a relic passed over from manual labor - treating programmers as cogs in a cotton mill is not a good long term strategy, they will create a world of shit for themselves, I think this fact is probably intuitive to any programmer reading.

brianpgordon 8y ago
996 would completely burn out almost everyone within, say, five years, but if you have teeming masses of desperate job applicants to replace the burnouts then that might not be as much of a problem for management as you might think. Companies like Amazon and Netflix in the US are certainly no stranger to the "chew em up and spit em out" strategy and it seems to work out pretty well for them. It's even basically the same situation, with prestige and money attracting an endless queue of applicants.
- tomxor 8y ago
  That's not what I meant (although an understandable interpretation)... what I mean is this strategy is not sustainable because cognitive jobs are increasingly less about the immediate problem and more about the long term problem, driving people to work long hours addresses short term - but ensuring people have the full power of their faculties available will allow them to make decisions and create solutions that work long term.
pizzazzaro 8y ago
US and western labour are not going to compete with China in terms of scale, even when adopting Chinese 996-icu labor practices. Where the west has always dominated has been in innovation - something sleep/leisure deprived workers are always bad at doing. Now we're giving that up because some venture capitalist who can never wrap their head around what we do says "its a good idea"?! Its the Soviet Nail Factory, all over again.

umadon 8y ago

So what do you do with types like Calacanis in the better world you might envision?

komali2 8y ago
I don't think this better world involves much of anyone deciding for Calacanis what he will be doing, but rather leaving him to his own devices.
- umadon 8y ago
  What would compel these people to give up some of their riches for the well being of your average worker, though? Voting? Asking nicely?
  - komali2 8y ago
    Cultural indoctrination. So yes, asking nicely. It's why I believe billionaires should be liquidated, no? Repeat en masse.
  - cannonedhamster 8y ago
    If history is any indication, bloodshed. When those with the power get more than they're fair share, the public tends to fix the balance by removing those with too much power.
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    Is this actually a good faith question? You know perfectly well that we compel everyone to pay taxes all of the time. This isn't a hard concept.

jnordwick 8y ago

I see HN had basically turned into an anti capitalist mess too.

throwaway_9168 8y ago

"If you define winning solely as “who has the greater growth”, you’ve already lost. If you dismiss the standard of living enjoyed in Europe – one without medical bankruptcies, crushing college debts, or falling life expectancies – as a “retirement society”, you’re the one who deserves to be dismissed." I agree with DHH's overall viewpoint. And Jason's portrayal of this issue as a "us Vs them" is idiotic. But it is hard to overlook one point - if you were to choose to incorporate in one country today, the de facto choice is the US. When was the last time you heard someone who wasn't born in those countries say "Yeah! Lets incorporate in Denmark (where DHH was born) or Spain (where he currently resides, according to Wikipedia)"? And Basecamp itself is apparently incorporated in the US. There is probably a reason why Stripe Atlas doesn't take your money and decide they will open up an office for you in Switzerland. Europe does seem to enjoy an excellent standard of living - good for them. But no one wants to immigrate to European countries because they think it is a "land of opportunity", at least not in the sense they do (or used to before Trump) when they immigrate to the US. The CEOs of some of the tech giants are first generation immigrants from developing countries. I don't see that happening in any European country in the near future. The success of these CEOs, by many accounts, is also directly related to their workaholic tendencies. And I am not sure if they are really exceptions (in the sense that other migrants who became CEOs at a much smaller scale can just afford to be bumming around). The success of these CEOs are signs of the same ambition and growth too. Besides, there are some who think the issues pointed out by DHH as America's failing is actually because America wants to have its cake (high living standards) and eat it too (high growth powered by capitalist ventures) and turned into a confused mess. Well, clearly that doesn't seem possible in today's world for whatever reasons, but it isn't as if any country in Europe has managed to pull off both either.

luckylion 8y ago
> But no one wants to immigrate to European countries because they think it is a "land of opportunity" At least no one with a high market value, yeah. I agree in general, Europe's model is very different from that of the US, it's much more stable, less flexible, much slower moving, more regulated, with higher taxes. You don't rise quite as high, you don't fall quite as low. It's "move fast and break things" vs "don't break things, move at an appropriate speed".

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

RickJWagner 8y ago

Oh, please. Another article that bashes at capitalism. I really wonder what the author's intent is? Right now (this instant!) there are hoardes of people trying to work their way into the United States. Why? The chance for a better life and more economic success. All this because of what? Capitalism! On the other hand, it doesn't seem like there are many people rushing to get into Venezuela these days....

mnm1 8y ago

"We can choose to become a retirement community like Europe" Sounds pretty fucking amazing to me. How do we choose to do this? The more like Europe we become, the better life will be for millions of people. The path seems to be to ignore idiots like Calanis and Ma and their stupid ranting bullshit. Better for millions to live nice lives than for one scumbag like Calanis or Ma to become a multi-millionaire / billionaire. These motherfuckers have nothing to add to the conversation and frankly, people that follow their "work harder" advice are either incredibly stupid or beyond desperate. I don't think we need to be either in the US although I'm sure those morons and other morons who follow them will disagree.