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Notre-Dame cathedral: Firefighters tackle blaze in Paris
- NeoBasilisk 7y agoimagine being the guy that accidentally burned down the Notre Dame Cathedral in 2019
- reneberlin 7y agoBecause you booted 'crysis' in an electron-app running on a mac-mini from 2011.
- anon491throw 7y agohttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/15/notre-dame-fire-paris-france-cathedral#img-1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/15/notre-dame-fir...
- cwkoss 7y agoYikes. I wonder what was the nature of the work being performed. Perhaps they were working with volatile solvents?
- CydeWeys 7y agoCould be a spark from a welder, a worker on the roof taking a smoke break, an electrical fault, who knows. There's any number of possible ignition sources and there's a lot of wood in that structure.
- lm28469 7y agoI'm following the french live coverage. Apparently the chief architect confirmed that no workers were present on the building at that time.
- bhandziuk 7y agoCan fire cause significant structural damage to a stone building like that?
- davidcollantes 7y agoThere is lots of wood in that stone building. Lots.
- jfoutz 7y agoAlso, high enough temperatures can change the stone. I’m not remotely a material scientist. I vaguely remember stone barbecue pits require some special consideration. There are also probably concerns about thermal expansions as well. The stone might resettle a little bit differently.
- all_blue_chucks 7y agoAt high temperature some types of stone explode or at least crack.
- snarkyturtle 7y agoThe melting point of marble is 800ºC and if reports are true that it's a construction mistake and not something more drastic it stands a good chance of not collapsing.
- LeifCarrotson 7y agoYou can cause a drinking glass (melting point 1400C) to explode if you expose it to 100C and 0C water in quick succession. Differential heating, moisture vaporizing, and expansion/contraction are larger concerns than the stone becoming lava.
- vidanay 7y agoYes. If the fire gets deep into the walls it can severely weaken mortar or even crack stones.
- pastor_elm 7y agodoesn't look like they have any capacity for even fighting it. where are the planes loaded with water? firetrucks with ladders?
- tomswartz07 7y agoWater is heavy. If you drop water on a structure like this, you end up having a collapsed building that is also on fire.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jimmaswell 7y agoThen why doesn't it collapse when it rains? Edit: Note the absolute phrasing of the parent comment and that the spray force in a strong downpour isn't much less than what's done with firefighting planes in situations that call for that level of pressure.
- _emacsomancer_ 7y agoIt's not usually on fire.
- r00fus 7y agoRain also doesn't put out major fires by itself.
- purerandomness 7y agoBecause most times when it rains, it's also not on fire.
- pfortuny 7y agoBecause. It. Is. Rain.
- noja 7y agoThe rate is different. Lots of water at once versus less spread over a long time.
- Not_a_pizza 7y agoProbably a contribution by "refugees", if I had to guess. Running people over wasn't enough.
- sctb 7y agoWe've banned this account.
- matt4077 7y agoThank you.
- Not_a_pizza 7y agoThank you for refusing to actually consider an opinion that is unpopular. I mean if popularity is the basis by which good decisions are made, then all I need is proper control of the media and then to make my opponents seem totally stupid. But hey...maybe it was only an "accident". https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800 https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-fra...
- cc_nixon 7y agoThe saddest thing will be losing the stained glass windows. Those have been somehow preserved for centuries but are going to get severely damaged here.
- justinator 7y agoI mean the entire cathedral has already been severely damaged. These things are in a state of constant rebuilding - it's took many generations just to get built. Notre Dame will be fine.
- lm28469 7y ago> Notre Dame will be fine. The walls maybe, but the roof is mostly wood, made 800+ years ago, it's gone, the statues, the drapes, the windows, the bells and the clock are gone forever.
- nailer 7y agoExpect photogrametry recreaton of every statue.
- callahad 7y agoDo we even have that data?
- blotter_paper 7y agoFor some resolution and completeness, certainly. The rest can be inferred. It won't be perfect, of course, but I'd be surprised if it isn't attempted at some point.
- rnadd89 7y agohttps://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-tallon-notre-dame-cathedral-laser-scan-art-history-medieval-gothic/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-ta... Apparently there are 3D laser scans of the whole cathedral
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bennettfeely 7y agoToo early to say if it is related but a dozen or more Catholic Churches across France have been desecrated, vandalized, or set on fire since February of this year. https://aleteia.org/2019/02/16/string-of-attacks-on-french-churches-includes-desecration-of-eucharist/ https://aleteia.org/2019/02/16/string-of-attacks-on-french-c...
- matt4077 7y agoLet’s not peddle flimsy rumors, especially not those accusing certain groups (as made here using the linked article). There is nothing to be lost in waiting for actual investigative results. And, fwiw, the early images clearly point to the fire breaking out in the roof, where construction scaffolds are clearly visible in all the images.
- robotrout 7y agoTo be sure, always wait for proof before acting. But pattern recognition is a thing. Although there was no evidence of a connection, France has seen a number of attacks on Catholic churches in the past year, including arson and vandalism. Paris’s Church of St. Suplice was set on fire after midday mass last month. No one was injured Police are investigating, but firefighters attributed the blaze to arson. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pariss-notre-cathedral-is-on-fire/2019/04/15/c487906e-5fa1-11e9-bf24-db4b9fb62aa2_story.html?utm_term=.a19fa6484602 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pariss-notre-cat...
- ritz_labringue 7y agoThis does not look like a reliable source of information at all.
- robotrout 7y agoHow about this one? https://www.intoleranceagainstchristians.eu/ https://www.intoleranceagainstchristians.eu/
- css 7y agoSpire collapsed: https://twitter.com/patrickgaley/status/1117848909877895171 https://twitter.com/patrickgaley/status/1117848909877895171
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- airstrike 7y agoAll I can say is "fuck...." I'm truly heartbroken
- agumonkey 7y agoI'm shocked and that's rare in these days of chaos. The powerlessness hurts
- isostatic 7y agoMany of these wooden structures are nearly 1,000 years old. The spire itself only dates from the 19th century.
- smn1234 7y agois that accurate? https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-47942176 https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-47942176 suggests the spire dates back to 12th century whereas Wikipedia suggests, to your point, that it was recreated in the 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Towers_and_the_Spire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Towers_and...
- rodelrod 7y agoThe old spire was taken down after the Revolution because it was in bad state and in danger of falling over the structure. A new one was built in the big mid-19th restoration of Viollet-le-Duc. Source, the chief architect of the current restoration works in this very interesting video tour (in French): https://www.facebook.com/lemonde.fr/videos/10155299594692590/ https://www.facebook.com/lemonde.fr/videos/10155299594692590...
- duxup 7y agoIt seems pretty widespread: https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105852910-1555350291548gettyimages-1137422977.jpeg https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105852910-155535029154...
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- StephenAmar 7y agoQuelle catastrophe
- aurea 7y agoQuelle
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- maccio92 7y agohttps://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800 https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-fra...
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- macinjosh 7y agoWatching a live video of the fire. All that CO2 being spewed into the atmosphere. I hope Macron sends the Vatican a bill for the carbon tax. /s
- Datenstrom 7y agoI hope someone did a 3D scan of the entire structure. Seems likely someone would have.
- stevep98 7y agoEven if not, it is extensively photographed. The Photosynth TED talk uses Notre Dame as an example of reconstructing geometry from a random selection of photos. https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth#t-202684 https://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photos... Skip to 3:45 or so.
- andybak 7y agoThanks. Now I'm sad and angry (again) about Photosynth being cancelled as well as sad and angry about Notre Dame! Microsoft canned Photosynth and seemed to make very little effort to preserve all the content.
- regularfry 7y agoThey canned it as a product, but the tech is still alive. You see echoes of it crop up in press releases every now and then.
- magduf 7y agoThis is the problem with these tech giants: they come up with cool stuff, and then abandon it because it isn't making enough money, but then they don't at least put it out there for other people to adopt. Google is especially guilty of this.
- LeoPanthera 7y agoThe concepts behind Photosynth are alive and well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photogrammetry
- ghostbrainalpha 7y agoThat's a safe bet. And slightly related some of the coolest 3D Model kits ever, are made for the cathedral. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nwEFCBLrdk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nwEFCBLrdk Its going to feel a little bit different building one of these now.
- throwaway123032 7y agohttps://www.pscp.tv/w/1yNGavoByLgJj https://www.pscp.tv/w/1yNGavoByLgJj that video is heartbreaking, and I have seen some image that the entire roof is gone.....fuck :(
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- mymythisisthis 7y agoThis is the bookend to Western culture. The development signified a birth of culture in Europe after the Dark Ages. Now, the other bookend. Sadly, innovation has moved to China. All the West has left are rent seeking companies likes Facebook, which are able to hide money and not pay taxes.
- mongol 7y agoTerrible. So sad.
- JshWright 7y agoFor those asking about why there isn't visible water being sprayed on the fire... There's no point. Any firefighting efforts are focused on preventing the spread of the fire to other structures (potentially other parts of the same structure) As a rule of thumb, the water flow necessary to extinguish a burning structure is the volume of the structure (in feet) divided by 100. The resulting number is (in rough numbers) the amount of water you need, in gallons per minute. For a fire this size, you're looking at tens of thousands of gallons of water per minute. It's just not possible.
- Raphmedia 7y agoIn the news they said that firefighters are entering the building to save as much art as possible before spraying water. (The news networks are pretty much as clueless to the situation as everyone else, so take with a grain of salt) Edit: They are now spraying the stone structures.
- blotter_paper 7y agoI wonder how the firefighters feel about risking their lives for art, as opposed to other lives. I'm not saying I wouldn't risk human lives for certain works of art, but I can imagine some boots on the ground feeling salty about it.
- pdpi 7y agoThere’s art and there’s art. And then there’s the symbol of a whole nation. I imagine even the most reticent would be jumping in on this one.
- kaoD 7y agoNot everyone is nationalistic.
- omginternets 7y agoThis isn't nationalism. Its patriotism. There's a really important difference.
- marricks 7y agoTo preempt the conspiracy theorists showing up... > Firefighters were rushing to try to contain a fire that has broken out at the cathedral, which police said began accidentally and was linked to building work at the site. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/15/notre-dame-fire-paris-france-cathedral https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/15/notre-dame-fir...
- pacoWebConsult 7y agoA conspiracy theorist would expect the police to be covering up the fact that multiple churches in paris have been the targets of arsonists this year.
- maccio92 7y agoSure looks like an accident in light of all these other attacks.. https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800 https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-fra...
- hn_throwaway_99 7y agoWhich logical fallacy is this anyway? Why are people against just waiting more than 5 effing seconds before jumping to conclusions with no evidence these days?
- SketchySeaBeast 7y agoWhy do you need facts when feelings are so much easier to obtain?
- maccio92 7y agoIf I told you three hospitals were targets of attacks, then a similar situation happened at a fourth hospital, would your first thought be that it was an accident?
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
- tirrit 7y agoThis is the top hacker news..? :O What is the relevance to HN, and doesn't the rest of the Internet media, cover this very good on their own? A sad day for both HN and Notre Dame, in my book :/ Edit: [I won't remove my bad comment, since there are several responses relevant to it, but I would like to apologise, for my typing before thinking (and even before re-reading the policy's I, myself are commenting on) - and lastly for the non-relevant nature, and over dramatisation, of this comment. I see all that I did wrong, and will try to make better choices in the future ;) Sincerely, tirrit.]
- nkkollaw 7y agoWhatever man, someone posted it, it got upvoted.
- tirrit 7y agoYes, and i lost my karma quicker than I can say, don't take it personal ;P But I guess emotions go wild with these things. I off course mean no offence, and hope they can save as much as possible within firefighter safety. Though I would think it was outside the HN posting guidelines.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nkkollaw 7y agoI'm not an expert (routinely get downvoted every time I open my mouth, I'm used to Reddit's style of commenting), but HN's guidelines do say that any topic that might interest a hacker is good and doesn't have to do with programming, startups, etc. Guidelines also say that one shouldn't post things that don't add to the conversation, I guess your comment is a classic of not adding anything and that's why you got downvoted. As for the rest, it's completely crazy. If what we know now is true, the fire was started on the scaffolds (I bet a cigarette), just imagine that the company was supposed to restore the thing, and destroyed it.
- setquk 7y agoThat’s terrible. I hope nobody is hurt
- nkkollaw 7y agoThis is horrible. I wonder what on the scaffold started the fire. Even a cigarette could have done this..?
- maccio92 7y agohttps://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800 https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-fra...
- nkkollaw 7y agoYou think someone did it..? This seems to be who Newsweek is accusing: "The pressure is coming from the radical secularists or anti-religion groups as well as feminist activists who tend to target churches as a symbol of the patriarchy that needs to be dismantled,"
- maccio92 7y agoI would not be surprised to hear it was sparked by Islamic extremists. According to wikipedia there were two known attempts on the cathedral in the past 3 years: > 8 September 2016: Notre Dame Cathedral bombing attempt. Arrests made after an explosives-filled car was discovered parked alongside the cathedral. > 10 February 2017: Police arrested four people in Montpellier, France, including a 16-year-old girl and a 20-year-old man already known by authorities to have ties to extremist Islamist organizations, on charges of plotting to travel to Paris and attack the cathedral.[37] see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Events_in_the_Cathedral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_de_Paris#Events_in_...
- sctb 7y agoWe've asked you several times to please stop breaking the guidelines with unsubstantive flamebait, so we've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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- vonnik 7y agoAbout 11 years ago, I climbed to the top of the spire of Notre Dame. It was not a place open to the public. (Although this is true, I find my own story hard to believe, so I will understand if there is skepticism.) We were drunk and it was dark and late. We hopped the iron fence in the back, and scaled the southern wall that runs along the nave, where the flying buttresses are. To get to the top, you climbed the walls and roof outside the building until you reached the base of the spire, and then you climbed inside the spire up several stories linked by rough wooden ladders, and then you had to get out and climb outside again, on a series of metal hooks, to get to the top where you could touch a metal globe and cross. There was very little security (just one trap door inside the spire that you had to climb through, where you had to make sure breaking an electrical current didn't set off an alarm). It was all very old, obviously, and old in a way of places where no one ever goes. Little used, and therefore neglected. Was the wiring on the trapdoor well insulated? I doubt it. There was a small group of climbers in Paris who knew about this. Maybe a couple dozen people. One of them would occasionally lead a small group of friends: free climbing to the top of one segment of the wall, and then letting down a rope to help up those behind. Notre Dame is at the center of Paris. There is a bronze marker in front of the church called "kilometre zero," from which all distances along French national routes are measured. From the top of the spire, the city fanned out like petals around a pistil. Paris was made to be seen from that one point, where no one ever went except a few climbers and pigeons, and maybe an adventurous priest. The climber who took us up to near the top of the spire lay himself down on a rafter in its hollow interior, above the void, and fell asleep. Like I said, we were drunk, and it was all very dumb and dangerous. When we came back down, about a foot before the last person touched the ground again, his rope broke. He picked it up, stared at it for a second, murmured "C'est mort", and threw it away.
- krisrm 7y agoWhat a loss. Absolutely heartbreaking. I spend a good deal of my time in a (far far less beautiful) cathedral, and I can't imagine what it would feel like to lose it, and this is the Notre Dame.
- sawjet 7y agoCathedrals like the Notre Dame were the moonshots of their time, only able to be built by immense societal consensus. It's unlikely with todays demographics shifts that we will ever witness a project as monumental as these were 1000 years ago. What a shame.
- Godel_unicode 7y agoYou're aware that the literal moonshots were in living memory, right?
- chmod775 7y agoWithin living memory, but during a vastly different (political) climate. Edit: Can anyone explain to me why this is getting downvoted? Is there really a consensus that the current political climate is comparable to the cold war? The cold war which is intertwined with the space race that put a man on the moon?
- ramblerman 7y agoYou mean when they shot the president? Or when they were putting communists on a list just 15 years earlier?
- chmod775 7y agoIs it really hard to guess that I was talking about the cold war and the aptly-named space race (which is directly related to said cold war)? I can't comprehend how anything else could come to mind.
- fragmede 7y agoYes, as both incidents are part of the political climate of the time, and are a part of history. They are not the proudest moments, but it is doubtful if, without the spectre of Communism or the USSR, the US would have tried to land on the moon.
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- benl 7y agoThe Crown of Thorns is kept in the treasury at Notre Dame and was due to be displayed all day this Friday for Good Friday. How it ended up there is an interesting tour of European history in itself. Let's hope that it has been saved.
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- danso 7y agoInteresting (but not surprising) to see this at the top of HN. I wonder if programmers feel even more existential dread about this compared to the average person — Notre Dame is a monument that seems eternal compared to the web apps we build. edit: "compared to the average person"
- beat 7y agoSomeday, when we win the final battle against Moore's Law, computers will stop evolving. Software will become as stable as medieval architecture. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but it'll happen. I'm currently reading a science fiction novel that has a scene of someone who just woke up from nearly 200 years of hibernation getting attacked by all sorts of futuristic machinery, due to a 200 year old assassination virus that was still running. It could find him using the inevitable everywhere surveillance (retina scans everywhere), and then use whatever to attack - automated flying cars, a robot waiter, even a couch massage unit.
- qzw 7y agoThe Dark Forest by Cixin Liu. Just finished it; great read.
- beat 7y agoYep, that's it! I'm just blown away by this book (and The Three Body Problem), and really looking forward to the next one in the trilogy. Along the same technical lines, have you read A Deepness in the Sky, by Vernor Vinge? I love the idea of "programmer-archeologist" on a 5000 year old spaceship.
- qzw 7y agoNo, I haven't, but will definitely check it out. I did finally read Neal Stephenson's Seveneves before I started the Trisolaris Trilogy. I find them excellent at conveying the sense of vastness of space and time and how truly fragile human civilization is. In a way, this Notre Dame tragedy calls up the some of the same helpless (but not hopeless) feeling as reading about the existential dangers faced by humanity in these books.
- bjourne 7y agoVery very sad news. Invaluable piece of history.
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- dmitryminkovsky 7y agoMaybe it'll be better than we think. I've been to the Cathedral in Köln [0]. Maybe Notre Dame is not completely lost. [0]: http://worldwartwo.filminspector.com/2014/07/shootout-at-cologne-cathedral.html http://worldwartwo.filminspector.com/2014/07/shootout-at-col...
- timothevs 7y agoToday, we are all French. As a student of European History, I want to curl up and cry. I proposed to my beautiful wife of 11 years beneath the spire of Notre Dame. We fell in love walking along the bouquinistes. There is a terrible empty feeling in my heart this afternoon. It is like losing a part of myself this day. Yes, I know the Notre Dame will be built again. But that might not happen till after I am long gone.
- cphoover 7y agoSending good vibes your way.
- MR4D 7y agoYou have a great story (albeit with a touch of sadness). I would think that this type of event would bring the French together in a way like few other events could. I'd expect Gilets Jaunes movement to subside quickly. Yes, today we are all French - and expect that we all want to see Our Lady rebuilt. Faster, better, stronger, and much more fire-retardant than in the past. The Windsor Castle fire of 1992 was refurbished in 5 years, [0] and although a national treasure, it was not at the level of the Notre Dame. But it was rebuilt, and was even completed ahead of schedule. The cost doesn't matter - it will probably be well over a billion. But you will see concerts, TV specials, and all sorts of fund raisers to rebuild her. And in this you will see the best thing of all - the French (and even people like me who are only French on occasions like this) showing our love to rebuild her. This is the message you should hold in your heart today - one of love and empathy, and dare I say, the grace of God that she was intended to foster. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Windsor_Castle_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Windsor_Castle_fire
- Zealotux 7y ago>I'd expect Gilets Jaunes movement to subside quickly. I don't see why you would think that, losing such a beautiful an iconic cathedral is surely sad, it however doesn't change anything to the daily struggle of many French citizens everywhere in the country. The GJ movement is already slowing down anyway.
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- franciscop 7y agoI'd recommend following the events live on Twitter: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23notredame https://twitter.com/search?q=%23notredame Though the fire seems quite intense, not sure how much will be preserved.
- LeoPanthera 7y agoSocial media doesn't seem like a good way to follow live events. It values being first, and being shocking, over being accurate. As much as rolling news has its issues, live television news from a reputable network is better.
- geff82 7y agoI lived in Paris as a child and have often been at Notre Dame. I still feel heavily connected to France. Seeing this precious diamond burn is like having my own house burning. What a cultural tragedy.
- geff82 7y agoWhat kind of cultural war did I get in that by expressing my feelings towards this monument I get downvoted?
- ThirdFoundation 7y agoIt's quite weird, I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. I appreciated your sentiment.
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- berberous 7y agoVery sad. While a different cathedral, it reminded me of Orson Welles' soliloquy in "F for Fake" on Chartres (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmjh8LL2zA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmjh8LL2zA): “And this has been standing here for centuries. The premier work of man perhaps in the whole Western world, and it’s without a signature: Chartres. A celebration to God’s glory and to the dignity of man. All that’s left, most artists seem to feel these days, is man. Naked, poor, forked radish. There aren’t any celebrations. Ours, the scientists keep telling us, is a universe which is disposable. You know, it might be just this one anonymous glory of all things, this rich stone forest, this epic chant, this gaiety, this grand, choiring shout of affirmation, which we choose when all our cities are dust, to stand intact, to mark where we have been, to testify to what we had it in us to accomplish. Our works in stone, in paint, in print, are spared, some of them for a few decades or a millennium or two, but everything must finally fall in war or wear away into the ultimate and universal ash. The triumphs and the frauds, the treasures and the fakes. A fact of life. We’re going to die. ‘Be of good heart,’ cry the dead artists out of the living past. Our songs will all be silenced — but what of it? Go on singing. Maybe a man’s name doesn’t matter all that much.”
- stcredzero 7y agoIn one Scientific American article, the top contender for the building which would remain longest if people suddenly disappeared would be the bottom pillars of the St. Louis Arch. Reinforced concrete sheathed in stainless steel. The central arch is just steel, so it would corrode and collapse faster. The remaining pillars would persist for many thousands of years just on their own.
- reubenswartz 7y agoI guess they are counting the Arch, but not the great pyramids, as a building?
- stcredzero 7y agoFrom what I remember of the article, the pyramids would be right up there, but they're subject to wearing of the exposed stone. (Also, as another analysis I came across mentioned, they'd be buried by the desert sands.) The combination of stainless steel with reinforced concrete makes a big difference.
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- qubitcoder 7y agoLive video from Reuters here: https://www.reuters.tv/l/PFyC https://www.reuters.tv/l/PFyC
- gigatexal 7y agoThis is terrible. I’ve been to the cathedral. France is awesome. The Louvre was awesome. To see Notre Dame in flames is just sad.
- RichardCA 7y agoThis was shown on PBS in the 80's, and it still holds up. As a nerdy kid, I remember being captivated by the animated segments. TL;DR - The danger of fire has always been an issue in the design and construction of these cathedrals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZpOd2pHiI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZpOd2pHiI0
- interlocutor 7y agoWhat is the building made of? Sand, gravel, stone, and cement are fairly inert. It must be made of some other flammable material.
- kweks 7y agoI had the privilege of undertaking the first (and now the last..) study on the spire of Notre Dame since 1933. The restoration works that were under place are a result in part of our recommended actions. The spire was incredible. It was one oak trunk, connected with a "Scarf Joint", or "Jupitre" in French (Bolt-of-lightning joint) There were the names of the last guys to inspect it in the 1930s, engraved at the top. There was a french ww2 bullet embedded in the spire, presumably shot at a germany sniper who was in the spire... Everything in the roof was antique wood. Anyone that went into the roof was paranoid of fire. It's a very, very sad day. As a celebration, I'm throwing up some photos that we'd never published from our study. https://imgur.com/gallery/9k9I8Y0 https://imgur.com/gallery/9k9I8Y0
- Balgair 7y agoThe Bells of Notre Dame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAzDXgxaq94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAzDXgxaq94 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5wDX-pZLOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5wDX-pZLOs It'll be decades, but if I'm very lucky enough to live very long, I may hear those peals myself.
- bobwaycott 7y agoThe bells really are something when hearing in person. What a loss.
- lambdasquirrel 7y agoMaybe California could donate some fire-resistant redwood for the rebuilding?
- tathougies 7y agoNo thanks. If we have any redwood left to be used for building, I'd rather have them go to the better attended local cathedrals, than a cathedral that is really no longer used.
- ddalex 7y ago
- yters 7y agoAt the beginning of holy week too...
- mudil 7y agoUnprecedented tragedy. It is also a tragedy of French people who have become rooted in the society that is far far from perfect. It's a society that is entrenched in special interests, arbitrary rules, bogus leaders, and other numerous ills, such as anti-Semitism and general snobbery. They pretend that France is sophisticated, and yet they allow something like that to happen. Excuse me, but Dutch would do better job saving Amsterdam's red light district.
- scop 7y agoKyrie eleison!
- bArray 7y ago> So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame > Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be > used to put it out. Must act quickly! From what I understand about fires, a lot of damage also comes from the act of putting them out. If it doesn't have fire damage it will probably have water damage. Also, I imagine the stone may not appreciate rapid cooling. > The Paris prosecutor's office said it has opened an > inquiry into the incident. [Pure speculation]: One of the first thoughts that came to mind is that this is deliberate. Specifically regarding the Yellow Vests protests that are still very much ongoing, despite reduced media attention [1]. Perhaps this was in anticipation of the debate results [2]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-13/yellow-vest-protests-continue-ahead-of-macron-debate-results https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-13/yellow-ve... [2] https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/04/13/emmanuel-macron-ends-his-great-national-debate https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/04/13/emmanuel-macron-...
- xutopia 7y agoWatch some senseless American preacher come out to say that this happened because God hates the French or some other senseless thing like this.
- nine_k 7y ago«I know this doesn't help, but we have exquisite 3D laser maps of every detail of Notre Dame, thanks to the incredible work of @Vassar art historian Andrew Tallon. Prof Tallon passed away last November, but his work will be absolutely crucial» https://twitter.com/grouchybagels/status/1117852841530368000?s=21 https://twitter.com/grouchybagels/status/1117852841530368000...
- TremendousJudge 7y agoYour comment reminded me of this story from the codeless code[0] >...“The initiate was only half-right,” said Bawan to the emptiness. “True, the value lies not in carven oak, but neither does it lie in the shape of the carving; for both the real pillar and the virtual one may be lost, and the temple will be no poorer. But when wood first yields to metal, one more thing is made: and that is the sculptor.” This building was a major achievement that inspired millions of people through centuries. It is a landmark of humanity. A simple physical fire will not destroy its legacy in our culture. [0] http://thecodelesscode.com/case/122 http://thecodelesscode.com/case/122
- scop 7y agoLord have mercy
- tatiner 7y agoSprinkler system installed?
- tatiner 7y agoWhy no sprinkler system?
- Causality1 7y agoNotre Dame could have burned down at any point in the last seven hundred years. The only bright point about this tragedy is that it happened after the invention of color high resolution photography and videography.
- nathanlee 7y agoDon't mean to be insensitive to the fire but I'm just glad there's no reported human injuries. Things are just things. Even if they are artifacts that represent more.
- odyssey7 7y agoI might be in the bargaining stage of loss - but I have to think that the architects and engineers who worked on Notre-Dame in the 12th and 13th centuries designed it to be gutted by fire in a way that it could be rebuilt. My undergrad's main building - definitely nothing comparable to this cathedral, but from a time where fire fighting wasn't that great - went through this three times, and was always restored. It seems like this happened a lot, and was something builders considered.
- jpfed 7y agoI wonder if the Photosynth models of Notre Dame still exist, or if they could be of any help in rebuilding.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- theclaw 7y agoWhy did this vanish from the front page?
- glaurung_ 7y agoI noticed that too. Apparently hn's algorithm really likes recent posts. Switch your view from "top" to "best" and it jumps back up.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- aaomidi 7y agoCurious, for situations like this what happens if we airdrop a ton of small balls of dry ice? Like a hailstorm of dry ice?
- marzell 7y agoI'd imagine there are a few problems with approaching this as a solution. This is all just speculation on my part. The weight itself being a problem first off, as it could cause further damage and even make it easier for the fire to spread. The rate of sublimation would be a problem too, as the outgassing could actually act as an insulating layer, preventing the heat of the fire from actually increasing the release of CO2 at a useful rate to displace the oxygen that is enabling the fire. Additionally, normally it is recommended to work with dry ice in a well-ventilated environment. CO2 is toxic, and also displaces oxygen, creating a significant risk of asphyxiation. With very large volumes such as this, you cannot effectively ventilate, so this could cause risks for those in the surrounding environment, and also makes it impossible for firemen to work in the area. They can't exactly run in with masks and have tanks of oxygen strapped to their backs.
- hollerith 7y ago>makes it impossible for firemen to work in the area. They can't exactly run in with masks and have tanks of oxygen strapped to their backs. I always thought fire fighters do that routinely: breathe from tanks of either oxygen or oxygen mixed with other gases.
- marzell 7y agoActually they breathe compressed air (not specifically higher in oxygen content than uncompressed air) so that would be an option. I'm not sure why I was thinking that this would not be viable. However, as CO2 sinks within normal atmosphere compared with smoke which typically rises, as the dry ice sublimates it becomes much more of a hazard for the area surrounding the fire. For an extreme example of exposure to CO2, see the Lake Nyos disaster [1] that killed people & animals in an area 16 miles around the lake. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
- berbec 7y agoHere's a firefighter on twitter describing the difficulties involved with fighting a fire of this type: https://berb.ec/ndfire https://berb.ec/ndfire
- ggm 7y agoYork minster fire root cause was electric wiring renovations
- cdfky 7y agoIf it burns down perhaps a functional skyscraper should be built in it's place. It would be a testament to a better, modernist future that we could build if we disregard all prior historical biases people all over the world still have
- return0 7y agoespecially religious biases
- ineedasername 7y agoThis will probably be an unpopular opinion, so let me first start by saying I certainly mourn the loss of history, the loss of a beautiful structure, and that which was inside. However, as I watched it burn, the thought uppermost to my mind was the nearly 200 years it took to build, and therefore 200 years worth of sucking money and resources from the local (and probably some non-local) populace. And this during a period of history when many lived in abject poverty. How much more might have been added to society if those resources had been used to better effect? It reminds me of how, even in modern times, the Catholic church has done much the same. My father grew up in the north eastern US in a poor urban area. His family was dirt poor and struggled to get 3 basic meals a day. Yet the local parish pressured, guilted, shamed, and instilled fear in the parishioners to get them to give 10% of their income to the church. So yes, I mourn Notre Dame, but I can't separate it in my head from the financial predations of the church on its followers.
- ryacko 7y agoYou must construct additional pylons.
- i_am_nomad 7y agoOrganized religion and specifically Christianity have provided moral and organizational structures that have enriched human existence, knowledge and expression, perhaps more than any other force besides free market capitalism. The Catholic Church isn’t flawless, but its benefits to the human race far outweigh its costs. I’m an unbending agnostic, but I sometimes feel like I should go to church anyway, just to contribute to the social capital that Christianity generates.
- ineedasername 7y agoAll of the things gained that you mention could have been achieved without the massive & economically draining cathedral structures though.
- i_am_nomad 7y ago
- wespiser_2018 7y agoVery tragic, and events like this make me wish I decided to to travel more! For context, we have burnt down and rebuilt cathedrals before, it just takes a generation! The Reims Cathedral, which is a little bit smaller, was shelled in WWI, and it wasn't until 1938 until it was considered 'fixed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reims_Cathedral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reims_Cathedral
- gdubs 7y agoI was lucky to visit back in 2009. It’s so much more intimate in real life than I would have expected. Tragic to see it go up in flames. Heart goes out to Paris.
- anigbrowl 7y agoA refresher on the scope and methods of laser-scanning Notre Dame. Professor Andrew Tallon, who steered this project, died last November but I think it's safe to say he will live on through his work. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-tallon-notre-dame-cathedral-laser-scan-art-history-medieval-gothic/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-ta... Locals report the damage may not have been as severe as feared. http://johannesviii.tumblr.com/post/184208321259/jonphaedrus-notre-dame-is-burning-this-is-ok http://johannesviii.tumblr.com/post/184208321259/jonphaedrus... First photographs from inside the building are encouraging: https://twitter.com/becket/status/1117919627642900480 https://twitter.com/becket/status/1117919627642900480