7 ms·

Fukushima: Removal of nuclear fuel rods from damaged reactor building begins

113 points by matt4077 8y ago

mistrial9 8y ago
https://www.dw.com/en/japan-slams-tepco-for-false-information/a-6485423 https://www.dw.com/en/japan-slams-tepco-for-false-informatio... it appears that there were three mainstream sources of radiation measurement at the time of the accident, and in the following days, each showed a very different set of readings. The subsequent panics, and scandals, are a convoluted mess of conflicting data. In fact, a non-profit sent individuals to the area in later months, buying them inexpensive radiation detectors, to get another set of readings. True to political form around the world, this article above seems to be "blasting" the Tokyo Power Company TEPCO for the opposite of what happened ? at which point ? opaque
searine 8y ago
I've been following TEPCOs media site casually for years. They actually used to have a really great media site showing the latest work being done on decommissioning but its gotten more and more closed off over the years as people care less and less. They used to post these really cool PDFs with technical detail. https://photo.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html https://photo.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html For example, the video referenced in the news article is the first video on the TEPCO archive. Worth a watch, the screenshot really doesn't do it justice. They still post media, but it tends to be more PR stuff of complete work rather than ongoing work. Here is another cool video : https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html?video_uuid=vy9uep38&catid=69631 https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html?vide... A robot inside Unit 2 scrapping up samples of the melted-down core. Talk about cutting edge extreme environment robotics!
petschge 8y ago
Note that this is the fuel from the cooling pool of reactor building #3. The cooling pool of reactor building #4 has already been emptied. And the we are still not ready to remove the heavily damaged fuel from the reactor cores.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- nihonde 8y ago
  It’s also worth noting that the cooling pool is not inside the protective container that houses the cores. As such, if the water were to drain off these pools, it would possibly render Tokyo uninhabitable for a very long time. That danger was mitigated a while ago, but moving the spent and spare fuel is still a major factor in making the site safe again.
  - vanattab 8y ago
    Tokyo Or Fukushima? Isn't Tokyo 150 miles south of the plant.
    - nihonde 8y ago
      Yes. Not sure why I’m being downvoted. There is no question that if the spare/spent fuel were exposed to air, the resulting radiation would have required evacuation of a 150+ mile radius. They originally brought in an elite firefighting team to refill the pools for this exact reason.
      - DuskStar 8y ago
        No question that they would have evacuated, sure. But also little question that it would not have been required.
        arcticbull 8y ago
        It's interesting how fearful nuclear energy makes people. The worst disaster in the history of nuclear energy, Chernobyl, will over the full course of time cause 4,000 premature deaths as estimated by the IAEA. This figure includes first responders sent in by the USSR with inadequate protections. "A United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) study estimates the final total of premature deaths associated with the disaster will be around 4,000 mostly from an estimated 3% increase in cancers, which are already common causes of death in the region." Interestingly, the most common cancer it caused was thyroid (due to the Iodine-131 released), which has a 98% survival rate. [1, 3] Whereas, currently, burning of fossil fuels is killing 7.3 million (1825 Chernobyls -- 4x the total number of civil nuclear reactors on Earth) per year. "According to the World Health Organization in 2012, urban outdoor air pollution, from the burning of fossil fuels and biomass is estimated to cause 3 million deaths worldwide per year and indoor air pollution from biomass and fossil fuel burning is estimated to cause approximately 4.3 million premature deaths." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_di... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents [3] https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/thyroid-cancer/statistics https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/thyroid-cancer/statistic...
ape4 8y ago
Has this disaster improved robot tech. Might it help on Mars.
- jansan 8y ago
  Before we think about Mars I suggest we should first get our shit together on this little planet.
  - umvi 8y ago
    It's fun dreaming about becoming an interplanetary species. It's not fun thinking about cleaning up a huge mess created by tragedy of the commons. That's said, Earth at its worse is still probably infinitely more livable than Mars at its best
    - v_lisivka 8y ago
      > That's said, Earth at its worse is still probably infinitely more livable than Mars at its best. Except for taxes. Anybody, who will live on Earth and be above average, will need to support other living beings (humans, animals, fish, forest, grass, birds, insects) with his taxes, otherwise we will have dirty cloak with few billions of angry and hungry living beings, which can dig you out of any bunker. At Mars, it will be hard to survive without external support for about century, but much lower taxes and self selection of educated people with high IQ can make it booming.
      - imtringued 8y ago
        Are the homeless in san francisco forced to support other humans?
        v_lisivka 8y ago
        Yep, in form of 6% sale tax.
  - noonespecial 8y ago
neya 8y ago
Here's the video footage for anyone who's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jr4_MaCbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jr4_MaCbA
beders 8y ago
Paid for by Japanese tax dollars.
- _verandaguy 8y ago
  Yes, was there any expectation that this would be some kind of private undertaking?
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    It wasn’t a state owned company and it made some very poor choices with that plant. According to the inquiry, the accident was foreseeable and basic safety precautions had not been taken. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet_of_Japan_Fukushima_Nuclear_Accident_Independent_Investigation_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet_of_Japan_Fukus...
    - Ajedi32 8y ago
      Is the company responsible still in business? Assuming it's not, who else would be expected to pay for this if not the government? Edit: According to Wikipedia the company is still in business, but it's owned (50.11%) by the "Nuclear Damage Compensation and Decommissioning Facilitation Corporation". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Electric_Power_Company https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Electric_Power_Company I would assume based on the name that that corporation actually might be involved in this project somehow?
      - jplayer01 8y ago
        That's the name of the state ownership part of TEPCO. The government even had to give them 1 trillion yen to keep them from going under, and it was originally planned that the entire company would be nationalized, which turned into majority ownership (a bit over 50%).
      - lostlogin 8y ago
        I would expect the company to pay or have insurance to cover the cost of mistakes in their line of business. If a company cannot afford to meet costs like these then they shouldn’t have been in business. These events were predictable and could have been prevented, as the inquiry found. Given that this has happened however, the government obviously has to pay.

113 points by matt4077 8y ago

https://www.dw.com/en/japan-slams-tepco-for-false-information/a-6485423 https://www.dw.com/en/japan-slams-tepco-for-false-informatio... it appears that there were three mainstream sources of radiation measurement at the time of the accident, and in the following days, each showed a very different set of readings. The subsequent panics, and scandals, are a convoluted mess of conflicting data. In fact, a non-profit sent individuals to the area in later months, buying them inexpensive radiation detectors, to get another set of readings. True to political form around the world, this article above seems to be "blasting" the Tokyo Power Company TEPCO for the opposite of what happened ? at which point ? opaque

searine 8y ago

I've been following TEPCOs media site casually for years. They actually used to have a really great media site showing the latest work being done on decommissioning but its gotten more and more closed off over the years as people care less and less. They used to post these really cool PDFs with technical detail. https://photo.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html https://photo.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html For example, the video referenced in the news article is the first video on the TEPCO archive. Worth a watch, the screenshot really doesn't do it justice. They still post media, but it tends to be more PR stuff of complete work rather than ongoing work. Here is another cool video : https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html?video_uuid=vy9uep38&catid=69631 https://www4.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html?vide... A robot inside Unit 2 scrapping up samples of the melted-down core. Talk about cutting edge extreme environment robotics!

petschge 8y ago

Note that this is the fuel from the cooling pool of reactor building #3. The cooling pool of reactor building #4 has already been emptied. And the we are still not ready to remove the heavily damaged fuel from the reactor cores.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
nihonde 8y ago
It’s also worth noting that the cooling pool is not inside the protective container that houses the cores. As such, if the water were to drain off these pools, it would possibly render Tokyo uninhabitable for a very long time. That danger was mitigated a while ago, but moving the spent and spare fuel is still a major factor in making the site safe again.
- vanattab 8y ago
  Tokyo Or Fukushima? Isn't Tokyo 150 miles south of the plant.
  - nihonde 8y ago
    Yes. Not sure why I’m being downvoted. There is no question that if the spare/spent fuel were exposed to air, the resulting radiation would have required evacuation of a 150+ mile radius. They originally brought in an elite firefighting team to refill the pools for this exact reason.
    - DuskStar 8y ago
      No question that they would have evacuated, sure. But also little question that it would not have been required.
      - arcticbull 8y ago
        It's interesting how fearful nuclear energy makes people. The worst disaster in the history of nuclear energy, Chernobyl, will over the full course of time cause 4,000 premature deaths as estimated by the IAEA. This figure includes first responders sent in by the USSR with inadequate protections. "A United Nations' International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) study estimates the final total of premature deaths associated with the disaster will be around 4,000 mostly from an estimated 3% increase in cancers, which are already common causes of death in the region." Interestingly, the most common cancer it caused was thyroid (due to the Iodine-131 released), which has a 98% survival rate. [1, 3] Whereas, currently, burning of fossil fuels is killing 7.3 million (1825 Chernobyls -- 4x the total number of civil nuclear reactors on Earth) per year. "According to the World Health Organization in 2012, urban outdoor air pollution, from the burning of fossil fuels and biomass is estimated to cause 3 million deaths worldwide per year and indoor air pollution from biomass and fossil fuel burning is estimated to cause approximately 4.3 million premature deaths." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_di... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents [3] https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/thyroid-cancer/statistics https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/thyroid-cancer/statistic...

ape4 8y ago

Has this disaster improved robot tech. Might it help on Mars.

jansan 8y ago
Before we think about Mars I suggest we should first get our shit together on this little planet.
- umvi 8y ago
  It's fun dreaming about becoming an interplanetary species. It's not fun thinking about cleaning up a huge mess created by tragedy of the commons. That's said, Earth at its worse is still probably infinitely more livable than Mars at its best
  - v_lisivka 8y ago
    > That's said, Earth at its worse is still probably infinitely more livable than Mars at its best. Except for taxes. Anybody, who will live on Earth and be above average, will need to support other living beings (humans, animals, fish, forest, grass, birds, insects) with his taxes, otherwise we will have dirty cloak with few billions of angry and hungry living beings, which can dig you out of any bunker. At Mars, it will be hard to survive without external support for about century, but much lower taxes and self selection of educated people with high IQ can make it booming.
    - imtringued 8y ago
      Are the homeless in san francisco forced to support other humans?
      - v_lisivka 8y ago
        Yep, in form of 6% sale tax.
- noonespecial 8y ago

neya 8y ago

Here's the video footage for anyone who's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jr4_MaCbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jr4_MaCbA

beders 8y ago

Paid for by Japanese tax dollars.

_verandaguy 8y ago
Yes, was there any expectation that this would be some kind of private undertaking?
- lostlogin 8y ago
  It wasn’t a state owned company and it made some very poor choices with that plant. According to the inquiry, the accident was foreseeable and basic safety precautions had not been taken. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet_of_Japan_Fukushima_Nuclear_Accident_Independent_Investigation_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet_of_Japan_Fukus...
  - Ajedi32 8y ago
    Is the company responsible still in business? Assuming it's not, who else would be expected to pay for this if not the government? Edit: According to Wikipedia the company is still in business, but it's owned (50.11%) by the "Nuclear Damage Compensation and Decommissioning Facilitation Corporation". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Electric_Power_Company https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Electric_Power_Company I would assume based on the name that that corporation actually might be involved in this project somehow?
    - jplayer01 8y ago
      That's the name of the state ownership part of TEPCO. The government even had to give them 1 trillion yen to keep them from going under, and it was originally planned that the entire company would be nationalized, which turned into majority ownership (a bit over 50%).
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      I would expect the company to pay or have insurance to cover the cost of mistakes in their line of business. If a company cannot afford to meet costs like these then they shouldn’t have been in business. These events were predictable and could have been prevented, as the inquiry found. Given that this has happened however, the government obviously has to pay.