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Yeah, moments before the arrest, many people in this thread were accusing him of paranoia/manipulative intents: >He claimed that his reason to do so was to avo

Yeah, moments before the arrest, many people in this thread were accusing him of paranoia/manipulative intents: >He claimed that his reason to do so was to avoid extradition to the US, but Sweden wasn't allowed to extradite him without UK's permission first [0]. He could've gone to Sweden and face the charges, and avoided this whole thing. But he had to make himself look like a victim of a conspiracy instead, and his followers eats it up. >If this truly was some sort of grand conspiracy to get him extradited to the US, I'd imagine the CIA has more reliable and straightforward methods of arresting/disappearing someone. >He was before he ran to the embassy, skipping bail, on the pretext that if the UK extradited him to Sweden, Sweden would extradite him to the U.S. That's an invalid pretext. And beyond HN, journalists have some interesting articles too. The Guardian's James Ball in 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/10/julian-assange-ecuador-embassy-wikileaks-us-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/10/julian... >The WikiLeaks founder is unlikely to face prosecution in the US, charges in Sweden have been dropped – and for the embassy, he’s lost his value as an icon >Assange does not want to be trapped in Ecuador’s embassy, and his hosts do not want him there. Their problem is that what’s keeping him trapped there is not so much the iniquitous actions of world powers, but pride. Perhaps it’s not Ecuador and the UK that need a mediator, but rather Ecuador and Assange.

foldr 8y ago
Hmm? This just goes to show that the USA didn't need to manufacture rape allegations in Sweden just in order to get Assange extradited, since their best chance of doing so was to extradite him from the UK.
- rndgermandude 8y ago
  He was in Sweden at the time. The UK couldn't have extradited him from Sweden to the US. Not saying that the Swedish charges were all manufactured, just following your hypothesis.
  - foldr 8y ago
    Ok, you'll have to explain the plan to me. How does having Assange accused of rape in Sweden help the US to extradite him? Assange was traveling between lots of countries at the time. It's not as if he was permanently based in Sweden. And Assange being accused of a crime in Sweden does not in any way make it easier for the US to extradite him from Sweden on other charges. edit: Also, the usual conspiracy story was that the CIA/the Illuminati/whoever had directed Sweden to reopen the rape case after Assange had arrived in the UK. (The case was dropped before he left Sweden, then reopened shortly after he arrived in the UK.)
    - rndgermandude 8y ago
      Jailing him undermines him directly by restricting his freedom. A charge of sexual misconduct will discredit him particular in the mostly-left-at-the-time circles that supported him. Having him in jail in a "friendly" nation also gives you time to prepare your proper, "iron-clad" extradition warrant... because if he is free who knows where he will be once you get your stuff ready. PS: the "timeline issue"... asked and answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633178
      - foldr 8y ago
        I think you might benefit from looking at the following timeline: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/julian-assange-key-dates-in-wikileaks-founders-case https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/julian-assange... Note that Assange was in the UK, in full reach of the authorities, for over a year before he claimed asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy. The story you're cooking up simply makes no sense in that context.
        beat 8y ago
        What does "makes sense" have to do with a conspiracy theory?
      - ben509 8y ago
        > A charge of sexual misconduct will discredit him particular in the mostly-left-at-the-time circles that supported him. That was all pre #metoo when the left was happy to give their people a pass for sexual misconduct.
- thefounder 8y ago
  Or could say USA tried all the dirty tricks
  - foldr 8y ago
    They tried the more complicated route before they tried the simple route? Assange was in the UK for approximately two years before he went into the embassy.
    - throwawaylolx 8y ago
      Perhaps at the time that was the simpler route. It's been reported that the US intelligence agencies have been working on the extradition process in 2018, so the fact that this was easily done today doesn't mean it could've been done as easily then.
      - foldr 8y ago
        Why would extraditing him from Sweden be simpler? Under international law, the US would still have needed the UK's (as well as Sweden's) permission to extradite him from Sweden if he'd first been extradited from the UK to Sweden to face rape charges.
        throwawaylolx 8y ago
        Not simpler to extradite him then and there, but simpler to extradite him at some point in the future, assuming the investigation would've been successful Edit: HN doesn't let me reply so deep in a thread unless I wait like 20 minutes. It'd have been simpler if he were detained as they'd have had a guarantee of his jurisdiction and plan accordingly. I imagine having him arrested in a country that had allowed CIA extraordinary rendition would've been better for them than having him protected in Ecuadorian embassy.
        foldr 8y ago
        Why would it be simpler in the future?
- armitron 8y ago
  The rape charges helped to chip away at his character, isolate him and erode popular support. It's not hard to believe that intelligence services could do something like that. That's their MO.
  - sneak 8y ago
    One point, for accuracy: There were no rape charges.
  - nikdaheratik 8y ago
    Or maybe he actually did it and deserves to go to prison for it. Hiding in a cupboard for seven years rather than going in and facing the charges is a good way to look guilty. Blaming "foreign spies" in an attempt to hide what you did so that you don't look as bad is the kind of thing an narcissistic toolbag might do. It is possible for Assange to be a bad guy and also for the U.S. going after him after all this time to also be unjust and bad. Not everything is a conspiracy and you don't necessarily have any "good" people when you start messing with international espionage and related areas.
- SkyBelow 8y ago
  "Need" and "helps improve the PR image of the action" are not synonymous. I am not saying it was the case or that the argument has merits. I am saying that the argument I've heard concerning this incident is not being fairly represented by the claim that the USA needed to manufacture crimes allegations in Sweden.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  Without the rape allegations, what crime would have led to the UK arresting Assange, enabling him to be extradited? Even with the allegations, the process of extraditing him to Sweden took ages.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    The computer misuse crimes which the US is currently using to try to have him extradited on?
  - foldr 8y ago
    He can be arrested directly as a result of an extradition request. (If this weren't possible, it would rarely be possible to extradite anyone.) I think you're perhaps unaware that an extradition request is required to present evidence that the person in question has done something that is a crime under both US and UK law. It is not merely a request to move someone from one country to another.
codyb 8y ago
The one about the CIA arresting or disappearing a man living in an Ecuadorian embassy in the center of London is interesting. Seems to imply the US can basically do anything anywhere and will if they want to, and really ignores the huge international fiasco from incredibly recently in the Khashoggi case. I like the think the people manning our intelligence agencies are a fair bit better than that personally. Although having read “Legacy of Ashes”, there certainly are some very interesting moments in CIA history.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- OlleTO 8y ago
  My comment was referring to the 1.5 years Assange lived openly in London, while Sweden was trying to get him extradited. I don't believe they'd storm an embassy to get him, but a couple of men grabbing him from off the street wouldn't be too out of character.
  - dmix 8y ago
    > a couple of men grabbing him from off the street wouldn't be too out of character. It probably would be out of character for them to do that in one of their 5-eyes partner's countries. Keeping that relationship is high priority for the US because they get tons of intelligence in return. Plus kidnapping a 'terrorist' and kidnapping a 'journalist' (air-quotes for both) are two different things in how the world will respond. The outcry over the Italian terrorist kidnapping was pretty small but taking Assange off the streets of London would be huge.
- seppin 8y ago
  > The one about the CIA arresting or disappearing a man living in an Ecuadorian embassy in the center of London is interesting Was arrested by local police and is currently sitting in UK Met Police jail.
  - seppin 8y ago
    *on request by and with permission of the Ecuadorian embassy itself

foldr 8y ago

Hmm? This just goes to show that the USA didn't need to manufacture rape allegations in Sweden just in order to get Assange extradited, since their best chance of doing so was to extradite him from the UK.

rndgermandude 8y ago
He was in Sweden at the time. The UK couldn't have extradited him from Sweden to the US. Not saying that the Swedish charges were all manufactured, just following your hypothesis.
- foldr 8y ago
  Ok, you'll have to explain the plan to me. How does having Assange accused of rape in Sweden help the US to extradite him? Assange was traveling between lots of countries at the time. It's not as if he was permanently based in Sweden. And Assange being accused of a crime in Sweden does not in any way make it easier for the US to extradite him from Sweden on other charges. edit: Also, the usual conspiracy story was that the CIA/the Illuminati/whoever had directed Sweden to reopen the rape case after Assange had arrived in the UK. (The case was dropped before he left Sweden, then reopened shortly after he arrived in the UK.)
  - rndgermandude 8y ago
    Jailing him undermines him directly by restricting his freedom. A charge of sexual misconduct will discredit him particular in the mostly-left-at-the-time circles that supported him. Having him in jail in a "friendly" nation also gives you time to prepare your proper, "iron-clad" extradition warrant... because if he is free who knows where he will be once you get your stuff ready. PS: the "timeline issue"... asked and answered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19633178
    - foldr 8y ago
      I think you might benefit from looking at the following timeline: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/julian-assange-key-dates-in-wikileaks-founders-case https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/11/julian-assange... Note that Assange was in the UK, in full reach of the authorities, for over a year before he claimed asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy. The story you're cooking up simply makes no sense in that context.
      - beat 8y ago
        What does "makes sense" have to do with a conspiracy theory?
    - ben509 8y ago
      > A charge of sexual misconduct will discredit him particular in the mostly-left-at-the-time circles that supported him. That was all pre #metoo when the left was happy to give their people a pass for sexual misconduct.
thefounder 8y ago
Or could say USA tried all the dirty tricks
- foldr 8y ago
  They tried the more complicated route before they tried the simple route? Assange was in the UK for approximately two years before he went into the embassy.
  - throwawaylolx 8y ago
    Perhaps at the time that was the simpler route. It's been reported that the US intelligence agencies have been working on the extradition process in 2018, so the fact that this was easily done today doesn't mean it could've been done as easily then.
    - foldr 8y ago
      Why would extraditing him from Sweden be simpler? Under international law, the US would still have needed the UK's (as well as Sweden's) permission to extradite him from Sweden if he'd first been extradited from the UK to Sweden to face rape charges.
      - throwawaylolx 8y ago
        Not simpler to extradite him then and there, but simpler to extradite him at some point in the future, assuming the investigation would've been successful Edit: HN doesn't let me reply so deep in a thread unless I wait like 20 minutes. It'd have been simpler if he were detained as they'd have had a guarantee of his jurisdiction and plan accordingly. I imagine having him arrested in a country that had allowed CIA extraordinary rendition would've been better for them than having him protected in Ecuadorian embassy.
        foldr 8y ago
        Why would it be simpler in the future?
armitron 8y ago
The rape charges helped to chip away at his character, isolate him and erode popular support. It's not hard to believe that intelligence services could do something like that. That's their MO.
- sneak 8y ago
  One point, for accuracy: There were no rape charges.
- nikdaheratik 8y ago
  Or maybe he actually did it and deserves to go to prison for it. Hiding in a cupboard for seven years rather than going in and facing the charges is a good way to look guilty. Blaming "foreign spies" in an attempt to hide what you did so that you don't look as bad is the kind of thing an narcissistic toolbag might do. It is possible for Assange to be a bad guy and also for the U.S. going after him after all this time to also be unjust and bad. Not everything is a conspiracy and you don't necessarily have any "good" people when you start messing with international espionage and related areas.
SkyBelow 8y ago
"Need" and "helps improve the PR image of the action" are not synonymous. I am not saying it was the case or that the argument has merits. I am saying that the argument I've heard concerning this incident is not being fairly represented by the claim that the USA needed to manufacture crimes allegations in Sweden.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
Without the rape allegations, what crime would have led to the UK arresting Assange, enabling him to be extradited? Even with the allegations, the process of extraditing him to Sweden took ages.
- DanBC 8y ago
  The computer misuse crimes which the US is currently using to try to have him extradited on?
- foldr 8y ago
  He can be arrested directly as a result of an extradition request. (If this weren't possible, it would rarely be possible to extradite anyone.) I think you're perhaps unaware that an extradition request is required to present evidence that the person in question has done something that is a crime under both US and UK law. It is not merely a request to move someone from one country to another.

codyb 8y ago

The one about the CIA arresting or disappearing a man living in an Ecuadorian embassy in the center of London is interesting. Seems to imply the US can basically do anything anywhere and will if they want to, and really ignores the huge international fiasco from incredibly recently in the Khashoggi case. I like the think the people manning our intelligence agencies are a fair bit better than that personally. Although having read “Legacy of Ashes”, there certainly are some very interesting moments in CIA history.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
OlleTO 8y ago
My comment was referring to the 1.5 years Assange lived openly in London, while Sweden was trying to get him extradited. I don't believe they'd storm an embassy to get him, but a couple of men grabbing him from off the street wouldn't be too out of character.
- dmix 8y ago
  > a couple of men grabbing him from off the street wouldn't be too out of character. It probably would be out of character for them to do that in one of their 5-eyes partner's countries. Keeping that relationship is high priority for the US because they get tons of intelligence in return. Plus kidnapping a 'terrorist' and kidnapping a 'journalist' (air-quotes for both) are two different things in how the world will respond. The outcry over the Italian terrorist kidnapping was pretty small but taking Assange off the streets of London would be huge.
seppin 8y ago
> The one about the CIA arresting or disappearing a man living in an Ecuadorian embassy in the center of London is interesting Was arrested by local police and is currently sitting in UK Met Police jail.
- seppin 8y ago
  *on request by and with permission of the Ecuadorian embassy itself