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And I can't understand how so many people stay loyal to a guy who just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except

And I can't understand how so many people stay loyal to a guy who just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Or how many will, when given a choice between: (a) a wild conspiracies theories about a totally-average Swedish woman being paid by the CIA to make up some not even that damning rape charges, then asks him for an $20/5min STD test in exchange for dropping the charges, knowing too well that Assange will be stupid enough to refuse, so as to enable execution of a convoluted three-country extradition plan when they could just as well wait for Assange to travel to whatever country has the extradition treaty they liked best or (b): guy with a history of being egotistical, who rarely managed to work with anybody, and who has a history of ignoring the house rules on hygiene (cf cat) thought nothing of discreetly trying again without a condom ...choose the former for no reason but political or personal sympathy.

tingol 8y ago
You are delusional. You talk about him like he's your creepy neighbor from the street. This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. He is being prosecuted by the most powerful country in the world with by far the most reach outside its own borders. All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq. You think his self-imposed exile is an egotistical act instead of what it really is: Step outside and you're gone. I would really like to see what your actions would be in this situation. But you don't seem the type to risk your own life for the sake of others knowing the truth. But if you think your option (b) of him being creepy is the one that makes more sense even after the fact that the woman has proven ties with the CIA than I feel sorry for you and our society because that represents the death of what I think is one of the most important pillars of modern civilization: freedom of press.
- matt4077 8y ago
  The woman doesn't have "proven ties with the CIA". According to a now-deleted article by some third-rate conspiracy theorist, she at some point during a foreign exchange in Cuba worked with (not for) a feminist organisation there, the leader of which was alleged to have ties to the CIA.
  - tingol 8y ago
    I'll reply here because I can't edit the comment anymore. You are correct and I retract the "proven" part, it was poor investigating on my part. On the other hand, he isn't proven guilty either and your "he is creepy" comment is still a dumb argument to make by an adult.
- ggm 8y ago
  All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq Yes, except for the troubles he brought on his own head, which don't relate to Iraq but do relate to his extremely asocial narcissistic behaviours. His original hacking was done because he believed NASA was hiding war work (he hacked the Australian academic network seeking a path into NASA via DECnet) and predates the war in Iraq by a decade or more.
  - raxxorrax 8y ago
    The first thing is request from someone leaking information for public interest, is perfect social behavior. Makes sense. edit: Any yes, Iraq was a crime.
    - ggm 8y ago
      The perfect is the enemy of the good enough, or J PowerPoint Morgan's epithet: i dont want it perfect I want it by Thursday. Assange didn't have to be perfect but the trail of wreckage behind him of past collaborators and friends speaks volumes.
      - raxxorrax 8y ago
        Ah, the figurative wreckage. Almost as real as the wreckage in the middle east. I don't like Assanges personality and I think it has many, many flaws. But that isn't of interest. The documents are actually public now, I would suggest to give them a read.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- CathedralBorrow 8y ago
  Can you demonstrate those "proven ties with the CIA"?
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  > You are delusional >...the woman has proven ties with the CIA... Pot, meet kettle.
- spaced-out 8y ago
  >This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. This guy colluded with racist sleeze-bags like Sean Hannity and Donald Trump Jr. to bring fascism back to the mainstream. Whatever fate awaits him is more than he deserves.
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    Can you explain what you mean? Sounds like hot air.
yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
Sorry, "creepy" is a damming accusation now? That's either a poor euphemism, or a really poor accusation.
- ggm 8y ago
  No, it's ad hom. The fact he's creepy is strictly speaking irrelevant, except some of us think non consensual sex without a condom with a sleeping woman is bad. Sufficient enough to be decidedly mixed about his subsequent behaviours. And many ex Wikileaks participants say he is a narcissistic ass. Which makes it very hard to feel entirely sad his self imposed state in the embassy is all the USA's fault. Because it he'd kept his dick under control none of this would have happened. What happens now is very sad. He is facing a pretty dire state of affairs.
roenxi 8y ago
> Swedish woman being paid by the CIA Your comment is the only one I've read today that uses the word 'paid'; it doesn't look like anyone believes that. The argument is that the victim(s) of this 'sexual assault' charges doesn't seem to think they are that big of a deal; and the charges do not, in and of themselves, warrant the complicated mess of extraditions that the Swedish prosecutor has triggered. We should assume the Swedes are making a big deal for internal political reasons or that the US is working behind the scenes; because the alternative is a level of bloody-minded madness being conducted on behalf of the Swedes. Nobody in their right mind would be pursuing a case so frivolous across borders with attempts at arresting Assange. If I recall correctly one of the charges was almost consensual sex bar a condom; if that is an arrest-worthy charge there are not enough prisons on the planet. I don't know the statistics, but they are not going to be pretty for that sort of thing. The reasonable punishment is - at most - going to be some combination of fines, STD tests and maybe a travel ban from Sweden on character grounds. What has actually happened is absurd and unjustifiable.
- matt4077 8y ago
  Rape is sex without consent. She made it clear that she requires him to wear a condom. Then, the next morning, she is awoken by him penetrating her without a condom, clearly violating the conditions of her consent. That's even ignoring the question if you shouldn't check again for continuing consent when the partner in question is someone you just met. People denying that such behaviour is rape make me ... sad? It's perfectly fine to stipulate a difference between this and the stereotypical violent assault by a total stranger in the dark, and Swedish law and sentencing practices do indeed take such factors into account. But to apparently consider this perfectly fine seems indefensible.
icebraining 8y ago
That's a false choice. There's, for example, (c) he did actually sexually abuse women, and that's being used to get him into custody and facilitate his illegal extradition to the US.
marcosdumay 8y ago
> just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Well, makes one wonder what kind of thing he was trying to delay.

tingol 8y ago

You are delusional. You talk about him like he's your creepy neighbor from the street. This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. He is being prosecuted by the most powerful country in the world with by far the most reach outside its own borders. All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq. You think his self-imposed exile is an egotistical act instead of what it really is: Step outside and you're gone. I would really like to see what your actions would be in this situation. But you don't seem the type to risk your own life for the sake of others knowing the truth. But if you think your option (b) of him being creepy is the one that makes more sense even after the fact that the woman has proven ties with the CIA than I feel sorry for you and our society because that represents the death of what I think is one of the most important pillars of modern civilization: freedom of press.

matt4077 8y ago
The woman doesn't have "proven ties with the CIA". According to a now-deleted article by some third-rate conspiracy theorist, she at some point during a foreign exchange in Cuba worked with (not for) a feminist organisation there, the leader of which was alleged to have ties to the CIA.
- tingol 8y ago
  I'll reply here because I can't edit the comment anymore. You are correct and I retract the "proven" part, it was poor investigating on my part. On the other hand, he isn't proven guilty either and your "he is creepy" comment is still a dumb argument to make by an adult.
ggm 8y ago
All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq Yes, except for the troubles he brought on his own head, which don't relate to Iraq but do relate to his extremely asocial narcissistic behaviours. His original hacking was done because he believed NASA was hiding war work (he hacked the Australian academic network seeking a path into NASA via DECnet) and predates the war in Iraq by a decade or more.
- raxxorrax 8y ago
  The first thing is request from someone leaking information for public interest, is perfect social behavior. Makes sense. edit: Any yes, Iraq was a crime.
  - ggm 8y ago
    The perfect is the enemy of the good enough, or J PowerPoint Morgan's epithet: i dont want it perfect I want it by Thursday. Assange didn't have to be perfect but the trail of wreckage behind him of past collaborators and friends speaks volumes.
    - raxxorrax 8y ago
      Ah, the figurative wreckage. Almost as real as the wreckage in the middle east. I don't like Assanges personality and I think it has many, many flaws. But that isn't of interest. The documents are actually public now, I would suggest to give them a read.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
CathedralBorrow 8y ago
Can you demonstrate those "proven ties with the CIA"?
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
> You are delusional >...the woman has proven ties with the CIA... Pot, meet kettle.
spaced-out 8y ago
>This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. This guy colluded with racist sleeze-bags like Sean Hannity and Donald Trump Jr. to bring fascism back to the mainstream. Whatever fate awaits him is more than he deserves.
- antidesitter 8y ago
  Can you explain what you mean? Sounds like hot air.

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago

Sorry, "creepy" is a damming accusation now? That's either a poor euphemism, or a really poor accusation.

ggm 8y ago
No, it's ad hom. The fact he's creepy is strictly speaking irrelevant, except some of us think non consensual sex without a condom with a sleeping woman is bad. Sufficient enough to be decidedly mixed about his subsequent behaviours. And many ex Wikileaks participants say he is a narcissistic ass. Which makes it very hard to feel entirely sad his self imposed state in the embassy is all the USA's fault. Because it he'd kept his dick under control none of this would have happened. What happens now is very sad. He is facing a pretty dire state of affairs.

roenxi 8y ago

> Swedish woman being paid by the CIA Your comment is the only one I've read today that uses the word 'paid'; it doesn't look like anyone believes that. The argument is that the victim(s) of this 'sexual assault' charges doesn't seem to think they are that big of a deal; and the charges do not, in and of themselves, warrant the complicated mess of extraditions that the Swedish prosecutor has triggered. We should assume the Swedes are making a big deal for internal political reasons or that the US is working behind the scenes; because the alternative is a level of bloody-minded madness being conducted on behalf of the Swedes. Nobody in their right mind would be pursuing a case so frivolous across borders with attempts at arresting Assange. If I recall correctly one of the charges was almost consensual sex bar a condom; if that is an arrest-worthy charge there are not enough prisons on the planet. I don't know the statistics, but they are not going to be pretty for that sort of thing. The reasonable punishment is - at most - going to be some combination of fines, STD tests and maybe a travel ban from Sweden on character grounds. What has actually happened is absurd and unjustifiable.

matt4077 8y ago
Rape is sex without consent. She made it clear that she requires him to wear a condom. Then, the next morning, she is awoken by him penetrating her without a condom, clearly violating the conditions of her consent. That's even ignoring the question if you shouldn't check again for continuing consent when the partner in question is someone you just met. People denying that such behaviour is rape make me ... sad? It's perfectly fine to stipulate a difference between this and the stereotypical violent assault by a total stranger in the dark, and Swedish law and sentencing practices do indeed take such factors into account. But to apparently consider this perfectly fine seems indefensible.

icebraining 8y ago

That's a false choice. There's, for example, (c) he did actually sexually abuse women, and that's being used to get him into custody and facilitate his illegal extradition to the US.

marcosdumay 8y ago

> just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Well, makes one wonder what kind of thing he was trying to delay.