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The comments here disgust me. People here used to have some principles, now there's so many people just repeating establishment talking points.

matt4077 7y ago
And I can't understand how so many people stay loyal to a guy who just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Or how many will, when given a choice between: (a) a wild conspiracies theories about a totally-average Swedish woman being paid by the CIA to make up some not even that damning rape charges, then asks him for an $20/5min STD test in exchange for dropping the charges, knowing too well that Assange will be stupid enough to refuse, so as to enable execution of a convoluted three-country extradition plan when they could just as well wait for Assange to travel to whatever country has the extradition treaty they liked best or (b): guy with a history of being egotistical, who rarely managed to work with anybody, and who has a history of ignoring the house rules on hygiene (cf cat) thought nothing of discreetly trying again without a condom ...choose the former for no reason but political or personal sympathy.
- tingol 7y ago
  You are delusional. You talk about him like he's your creepy neighbor from the street. This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. He is being prosecuted by the most powerful country in the world with by far the most reach outside its own borders. All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq. You think his self-imposed exile is an egotistical act instead of what it really is: Step outside and you're gone. I would really like to see what your actions would be in this situation. But you don't seem the type to risk your own life for the sake of others knowing the truth. But if you think your option (b) of him being creepy is the one that makes more sense even after the fact that the woman has proven ties with the CIA than I feel sorry for you and our society because that represents the death of what I think is one of the most important pillars of modern civilization: freedom of press.
  - matt4077 7y ago
    The woman doesn't have "proven ties with the CIA". According to a now-deleted article by some third-rate conspiracy theorist, she at some point during a foreign exchange in Cuba worked with (not for) a feminist organisation there, the leader of which was alleged to have ties to the CIA.
    - tingol 7y ago
      I'll reply here because I can't edit the comment anymore. You are correct and I retract the "proven" part, it was poor investigating on my part. On the other hand, he isn't proven guilty either and your "he is creepy" comment is still a dumb argument to make by an adult.
  - ggm 7y ago
    All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq Yes, except for the troubles he brought on his own head, which don't relate to Iraq but do relate to his extremely asocial narcissistic behaviours. His original hacking was done because he believed NASA was hiding war work (he hacked the Australian academic network seeking a path into NASA via DECnet) and predates the war in Iraq by a decade or more.
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      The first thing is request from someone leaking information for public interest, is perfect social behavior. Makes sense. edit: Any yes, Iraq was a crime.
      - ggm 7y ago
        The perfect is the enemy of the good enough, or J PowerPoint Morgan's epithet: i dont want it perfect I want it by Thursday. Assange didn't have to be perfect but the trail of wreckage behind him of past collaborators and friends speaks volumes.
        raxxorrax 7y ago
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  Sorry, "creepy" is a damming accusation now? That's either a poor euphemism, or a really poor accusation.
  - ggm 7y ago
    No, it's ad hom. The fact he's creepy is strictly speaking irrelevant, except some of us think non consensual sex without a condom with a sleeping woman is bad. Sufficient enough to be decidedly mixed about his subsequent behaviours. And many ex Wikileaks participants say he is a narcissistic ass. Which makes it very hard to feel entirely sad his self imposed state in the embassy is all the USA's fault. Because it he'd kept his dick under control none of this would have happened. What happens now is very sad. He is facing a pretty dire state of affairs.
- roenxi 7y ago
  > Swedish woman being paid by the CIA Your comment is the only one I've read today that uses the word 'paid'; it doesn't look like anyone believes that. The argument is that the victim(s) of this 'sexual assault' charges doesn't seem to think they are that big of a deal; and the charges do not, in and of themselves, warrant the complicated mess of extraditions that the Swedish prosecutor has triggered. We should assume the Swedes are making a big deal for internal political reasons or that the US is working behind the scenes; because the alternative is a level of bloody-minded madness being conducted on behalf of the Swedes. Nobody in their right mind would be pursuing a case so frivolous across borders with attempts at arresting Assange. If I recall correctly one of the charges was almost consensual sex bar a condom; if that is an arrest-worthy charge there are not enough prisons on the planet. I don't know the statistics, but they are not going to be pretty for that sort of thing. The reasonable punishment is - at most - going to be some combination of fines, STD tests and maybe a travel ban from Sweden on character grounds. What has actually happened is absurd and unjustifiable.
  - matt4077 7y ago
    Rape is sex without consent. She made it clear that she requires him to wear a condom. Then, the next morning, she is awoken by him penetrating her without a condom, clearly violating the conditions of her consent. That's even ignoring the question if you shouldn't check again for continuing consent when the partner in question is someone you just met. People denying that such behaviour is rape make me ... sad? It's perfectly fine to stipulate a difference between this and the stereotypical violent assault by a total stranger in the dark, and Swedish law and sentencing practices do indeed take such factors into account. But to apparently consider this perfectly fine seems indefensible.
- icebraining 7y ago
  That's a false choice. There's, for example, (c) he did actually sexually abuse women, and that's being used to get him into custody and facilitate his illegal extradition to the US.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  > just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Well, makes one wonder what kind of thing he was trying to delay.
tingol 7y ago
You should assume by now that agenda pushers are covering most places on the internet that have some influence over the public. I truly hope somewhere in the future people will look on these people as heroes of journalism and protectors of public knowledge. "He skipped bail so he should be arrested". No one can seriously be this dead in the brain... Staying in the UK which is a bitch state of the US who wants him gone was equal to life in prison or worse which he of course knew. Actually we should all know by what happens when the US has a target, laws no longer apply and the media will make it look like some heroic action, as you can see by some reactions on this site...
- mikeq101101 7y ago
  Assange is what actual journalist looks like. Mass media are there just to repeat the "intelligence community consensus", not to tell people the truth. After Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin, babies out of incubators, WMDs, Russiagate, they still wonder why no one takes them seriously, and why are people looking for alternatives.
  - anthonybsd 7y ago
    Assange is a corrupt paid agent of Russian propaganda network. The fact that you are a fan casts more shadow over your own character than anything else.
    - mikeq101101 7y ago
      Yeah, keep repeating those neocon talking points. The war machine is proud of you.
      - anthonybsd 7y ago
        Yeah, war machine like this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attack-ghouta.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-ch... Pieces of shit like you responsible for this.
sorenjan 7y ago
I don't know to what you're referring, but the facts of the matter are: 1. He was wanted for questioning for rape and sexual misconduct in Sweden. According to police records, he had sex with a woman who demanded that he wore a condom, which he did at first. Then next morning she wakes up by him penetrating her without consent. She then asks "are you wearing anything", to which he replies "I'm wearing you". The sexual misconduct charges are dropped due to statutes of limitations, and the rape case is dormant due to low probablility of resolving it. Maybe they will open it up again. 2. Assange fought the extraditions through several UK courts. He had multiple chances do defend himself, and lost every one. He lost a high court appeal, then when the supreme court upheld that decision he fled to Ecuador. 3. He claimed that his reason to do so was to avoid extradition to the US, but Sweden wasn't allowed to extradite him without UK's permission first [0]. He could've gone to Sweden and face the charges, and avoided this whole thing. But he had to make himself look like a victim of a conspiracy instead, and his followers eats it up. He's been in self imposed custody because he refused to accept the lawful rulings of two democracies, and Wikileaks has promoted conspiracies like Pizza gate and Qanon, they are not a poor organization to fight for freedom of speech. [0] https://www.aklagare.se/en/nyheter--press/media/the-assange-matter/kan-assange-utlamnas-fran-sverige-till-usa/ https://www.aklagare.se/en/nyheter--press/media/the-assange-...
- keepmesmall 7y ago
  Pizzagate and Qanon are not conspiracies, they are theories about conspiracies. A conspiracy theory is just a non-mainstream body of information describing a system of political entities.
- mothsonasloth 7y ago
  They haven't promoted conspiracies like Pizzagate or Qanon, they just leaked Podesta's emails etc. What conclusions people draw from those leaks is on them, not wikileaks.
  - sorenjan 7y ago
    >> Are those of us investigating the Comet Pizza/Human Trafficking scandal on the right track? And if not, where should we be looking? >> EDIT: This is very real and we need to SAVE these kids. If the Wikileaks staff is uncomfortable posting this here, please give us a bat signal somewhere else. > It is curious. So far we dont know what to make of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5c8u9l/we_are_the_wikileaks_staff_despite_our_editor/d9uoxzw/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5c8u9l/we_are_the_wik... > CBS Reality Check covers Pizzagate. https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641910334089/ https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641... > More: https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 Also: https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1000795757983780865 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1000795757983780865
majortennis 7y ago
Some of the people are shills right? Theres an office somewhere where people are paid to forward an agenda in comment sections.
deiznof 7y ago
HN seems to be pretty good, actually, they seem to understand that Assange has been the target of a propaganda campaign. On reddit or anywhere else I'd agree with you.

matt4077 7y ago

And I can't understand how so many people stay loyal to a guy who just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Or how many will, when given a choice between: (a) a wild conspiracies theories about a totally-average Swedish woman being paid by the CIA to make up some not even that damning rape charges, then asks him for an $20/5min STD test in exchange for dropping the charges, knowing too well that Assange will be stupid enough to refuse, so as to enable execution of a convoluted three-country extradition plan when they could just as well wait for Assange to travel to whatever country has the extradition treaty they liked best or (b): guy with a history of being egotistical, who rarely managed to work with anybody, and who has a history of ignoring the house rules on hygiene (cf cat) thought nothing of discreetly trying again without a condom ...choose the former for no reason but political or personal sympathy.

tingol 7y ago
You are delusional. You talk about him like he's your creepy neighbor from the street. This guy messed with dangerous people for the sake of truth. He is being prosecuted by the most powerful country in the world with by far the most reach outside its own borders. All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq. You think his self-imposed exile is an egotistical act instead of what it really is: Step outside and you're gone. I would really like to see what your actions would be in this situation. But you don't seem the type to risk your own life for the sake of others knowing the truth. But if you think your option (b) of him being creepy is the one that makes more sense even after the fact that the woman has proven ties with the CIA than I feel sorry for you and our society because that represents the death of what I think is one of the most important pillars of modern civilization: freedom of press.
- matt4077 7y ago
  The woman doesn't have "proven ties with the CIA". According to a now-deleted article by some third-rate conspiracy theorist, she at some point during a foreign exchange in Cuba worked with (not for) a feminist organisation there, the leader of which was alleged to have ties to the CIA.
  - tingol 7y ago
    I'll reply here because I can't edit the comment anymore. You are correct and I retract the "proven" part, it was poor investigating on my part. On the other hand, he isn't proven guilty either and your "he is creepy" comment is still a dumb argument to make by an adult.
- ggm 7y ago
  All his trouble began after he leaked US butchery in Iraq Yes, except for the troubles he brought on his own head, which don't relate to Iraq but do relate to his extremely asocial narcissistic behaviours. His original hacking was done because he believed NASA was hiding war work (he hacked the Australian academic network seeking a path into NASA via DECnet) and predates the war in Iraq by a decade or more.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    The first thing is request from someone leaking information for public interest, is perfect social behavior. Makes sense. edit: Any yes, Iraq was a crime.
    - ggm 7y ago
      The perfect is the enemy of the good enough, or J PowerPoint Morgan's epithet: i dont want it perfect I want it by Thursday. Assange didn't have to be perfect but the trail of wreckage behind him of past collaborators and friends speaks volumes.
      - raxxorrax 7y ago
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
Sorry, "creepy" is a damming accusation now? That's either a poor euphemism, or a really poor accusation.
- ggm 7y ago
  No, it's ad hom. The fact he's creepy is strictly speaking irrelevant, except some of us think non consensual sex without a condom with a sleeping woman is bad. Sufficient enough to be decidedly mixed about his subsequent behaviours. And many ex Wikileaks participants say he is a narcissistic ass. Which makes it very hard to feel entirely sad his self imposed state in the embassy is all the USA's fault. Because it he'd kept his dick under control none of this would have happened. What happens now is very sad. He is facing a pretty dire state of affairs.
roenxi 7y ago
> Swedish woman being paid by the CIA Your comment is the only one I've read today that uses the word 'paid'; it doesn't look like anyone believes that. The argument is that the victim(s) of this 'sexual assault' charges doesn't seem to think they are that big of a deal; and the charges do not, in and of themselves, warrant the complicated mess of extraditions that the Swedish prosecutor has triggered. We should assume the Swedes are making a big deal for internal political reasons or that the US is working behind the scenes; because the alternative is a level of bloody-minded madness being conducted on behalf of the Swedes. Nobody in their right mind would be pursuing a case so frivolous across borders with attempts at arresting Assange. If I recall correctly one of the charges was almost consensual sex bar a condom; if that is an arrest-worthy charge there are not enough prisons on the planet. I don't know the statistics, but they are not going to be pretty for that sort of thing. The reasonable punishment is - at most - going to be some combination of fines, STD tests and maybe a travel ban from Sweden on character grounds. What has actually happened is absurd and unjustifiable.
- matt4077 7y ago
  Rape is sex without consent. She made it clear that she requires him to wear a condom. Then, the next morning, she is awoken by him penetrating her without a condom, clearly violating the conditions of her consent. That's even ignoring the question if you shouldn't check again for continuing consent when the partner in question is someone you just met. People denying that such behaviour is rape make me ... sad? It's perfectly fine to stipulate a difference between this and the stereotypical violent assault by a total stranger in the dark, and Swedish law and sentencing practices do indeed take such factors into account. But to apparently consider this perfectly fine seems indefensible.
icebraining 7y ago
That's a false choice. There's, for example, (c) he did actually sexually abuse women, and that's being used to get him into custody and facilitate his illegal extradition to the US.
marcosdumay 7y ago
> just wasted seven years of his life in a self-imposed prison with absolutely no upside except delaying whatever awaits him now. Well, makes one wonder what kind of thing he was trying to delay.

tingol 7y ago

You should assume by now that agenda pushers are covering most places on the internet that have some influence over the public. I truly hope somewhere in the future people will look on these people as heroes of journalism and protectors of public knowledge. "He skipped bail so he should be arrested". No one can seriously be this dead in the brain... Staying in the UK which is a bitch state of the US who wants him gone was equal to life in prison or worse which he of course knew. Actually we should all know by what happens when the US has a target, laws no longer apply and the media will make it look like some heroic action, as you can see by some reactions on this site...

mikeq101101 7y ago
Assange is what actual journalist looks like. Mass media are there just to repeat the "intelligence community consensus", not to tell people the truth. After Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin, babies out of incubators, WMDs, Russiagate, they still wonder why no one takes them seriously, and why are people looking for alternatives.
- anthonybsd 7y ago
  Assange is a corrupt paid agent of Russian propaganda network. The fact that you are a fan casts more shadow over your own character than anything else.
  - mikeq101101 7y ago
    Yeah, keep repeating those neocon talking points. The war machine is proud of you.
    - anthonybsd 7y ago
      Yeah, war machine like this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attack-ghouta.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-ch... Pieces of shit like you responsible for this.

sorenjan 7y ago

I don't know to what you're referring, but the facts of the matter are: 1. He was wanted for questioning for rape and sexual misconduct in Sweden. According to police records, he had sex with a woman who demanded that he wore a condom, which he did at first. Then next morning she wakes up by him penetrating her without consent. She then asks "are you wearing anything", to which he replies "I'm wearing you". The sexual misconduct charges are dropped due to statutes of limitations, and the rape case is dormant due to low probablility of resolving it. Maybe they will open it up again. 2. Assange fought the extraditions through several UK courts. He had multiple chances do defend himself, and lost every one. He lost a high court appeal, then when the supreme court upheld that decision he fled to Ecuador. 3. He claimed that his reason to do so was to avoid extradition to the US, but Sweden wasn't allowed to extradite him without UK's permission first [0]. He could've gone to Sweden and face the charges, and avoided this whole thing. But he had to make himself look like a victim of a conspiracy instead, and his followers eats it up. He's been in self imposed custody because he refused to accept the lawful rulings of two democracies, and Wikileaks has promoted conspiracies like Pizza gate and Qanon, they are not a poor organization to fight for freedom of speech. [0] https://www.aklagare.se/en/nyheter--press/media/the-assange-matter/kan-assange-utlamnas-fran-sverige-till-usa/ https://www.aklagare.se/en/nyheter--press/media/the-assange-...

keepmesmall 7y ago
Pizzagate and Qanon are not conspiracies, they are theories about conspiracies. A conspiracy theory is just a non-mainstream body of information describing a system of political entities.
mothsonasloth 7y ago
They haven't promoted conspiracies like Pizzagate or Qanon, they just leaked Podesta's emails etc. What conclusions people draw from those leaks is on them, not wikileaks.
- sorenjan 7y ago
  >> Are those of us investigating the Comet Pizza/Human Trafficking scandal on the right track? And if not, where should we be looking? >> EDIT: This is very real and we need to SAVE these kids. If the Wikileaks staff is uncomfortable posting this here, please give us a bat signal somewhere else. > It is curious. So far we dont know what to make of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5c8u9l/we_are_the_wikileaks_staff_despite_our_editor/d9uoxzw/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5c8u9l/we_are_the_wik... > CBS Reality Check covers Pizzagate. https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641910334089/ https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641... > More: https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 Also: https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate https://our.wikileaks.org/Pizzagate https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1000795757983780865 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1000795757983780865

majortennis 7y ago

Some of the people are shills right? Theres an office somewhere where people are paid to forward an agenda in comment sections.

deiznof 7y ago

HN seems to be pretty good, actually, they seem to understand that Assange has been the target of a propaganda campaign. On reddit or anywhere else I'd agree with you.