6 ms·

Banned Drugs in the Meat Supply?

61 points by prostoalex 8y ago

Scoundreller 8y ago
In other words, dose matters. It's what separates water from being life-sustaining vs. a quick-killing poison. Equipment is getting more sensitive, so you find more cases if you're strictly looking at a binary level. We have different cutoffs for different foods for the same drugs. This does make sense - while an animal may be given an antibiotic and need time to wash out, you're probably not giving it to a shrimp, so why did it get there in the first place?
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  That is the point of the entire article. CR’s scientists also note that the FSIS cutoffs seem much higher than those used by other scientists, even in other government agencies. And in documents provided to CR, the FSIS acknowledged that even for drugs that should not be in meat, the agency sets its cutoffs above what the test can measure. and Some experts, however, worry that by relying on higher cutoffs, the FSIS may overlook possible health threats. Some research, including a 2015 review in the Journal of Veterinary Science & Toxicology, suggests that long-term exposure to low levels of drug residue in meat could increase the risk of cancer, fetal harm, antibiotic resistance, and more. The article is more disturbing than what I quoted. Also, this is not about antibiotics, it's about substances that are potentially fatal to some, and other substances that are carcinogenic. It's not about "why did it get there in the first places" it's that it shouldn't be there because it's harmful to health.
- reacweb 8y ago
  I have been dubious of effectiveness of homeopathy during many years. Now, it is widely used in breeding to compensate for prohibited antibiotics. This seems to prove that tiny doses also matter.
  - close04 8y ago
    In this case I can sell you Jimi Hendrix's air guitar. Just as good as the physical one [0] and a lot cheaper. [0] https://financesonline.com/10-most-expensive-guitars-of-music-stars-from-eric-clapton-to-jimi-hendrix/ https://financesonline.com/10-most-expensive-guitars-of-musi...
  - voldacar 8y ago
    can you source this claim?
    - reacweb 8y ago
      LMGTFY https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5256414/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5256414/ In France, it is very very common that the veterinaries prescribe homeopathy.
      - lucozade 8y ago
        The abstract for that paper states: > Cure rates for the treatments with antibiotics, homeopathy or placebo varied to a high degree, while the remedy used did not seem to make a big difference. Looking at all the studies, no study was repeated under comparable conditions. Consequently, the use of homeopathy currently cannot claim to have sufficient prognostic validity where efficacy is concerned. I read this as suggesting that, rather than homeopathy working, antibiotics don't work particularly well.
      - Luc 8y ago
        For shame, really. A dereliction of duty by those vets. Might as well base your health system on witchcraft.
        aldoushuxley001 8y ago
        So do you always ignore peer reviewed science or just when it comes to homeopathy?
- stefan_ 8y ago
  These are exogenous substances - they didn't magically synthesize in the animals from water and grain. As a regulator, any detectable amount should be a case opened to investigate that particular supply chain.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
niceTrope 8y ago
Wow, that's a really nice trope ya got there!
Halluxfboy009 8y ago
The last comment there: "This article has already been condemned by the USDA as rhetoric and untrue. There are no scienitific evidence for any of these claims. Yikes!"
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tastik 8y ago
  Yeah - I wish Consumer Reports would stay away from health related news. It's almost always overblown in some way. They really need to stick to their core mission - product reviews.
  - kevin_b_er 8y ago
    They are. Products I buy in the supermarket are still products.
- DiabloD3 8y ago
  This is why you should never use Facebook as your comments system: it allows people to just randomly say ignorant shit that any reasonable adult would never even have thought of that as something have said in the first place.
cies 8y ago
Meat has inherent risk when compared to plant derived foods, and this is about "persistent toxins" (PTs). These toxins "build up" in our tissues and thus may become a threat after consuming small bits of them over a long time span. Since these PTs build up in our tissues, they usually also build up in the tissues of animals. Thus eating animal tissue is exposing us to the buildup of PTs. As an example: it is observed that then some PT got into the environment the small animals did not suffer from it, the slightly bigger animals that eat the small ones also did not, but the larger predators (owls and hawks, iirc) were dying because at their point in the food chain the build up of PTs reached lethal levels. Like another comment said: dose matters. But I like to add that understanding persistence matters probably just as much.
- euler_ 8y ago
  Sure, bio-accumulation is a risk, but the vast majority of meat eaten by humans is low on the food chain. Fish is a whole different story.
  - cies 8y ago
    If they get fed hi-tox soy/corn crop they may be "low" on the food chain as in "not a predator" but the PTs still accumulate. They do not even live long enough to develop the diseases: we do. Also they feed animals each other: see mad cow disease.
Creationer 8y ago
I wish the same energy currently being wasted on anti-vaxx was instead spent on the pollutants in our food, air, water and soil. These pollutants are unavoidable and have a clinically proven negative impact on people, particularly children. DEHP in food containers and household products is very worrying. 'Mom anger' combined with Scientific validity could produce some great improvements. Maybe the solution to the anti-vaxx issue is not to dismiss the rage, but to harness it and direct it to a worthy cause?
- Not_a_pizza 8y ago
  It would be nice to have independent reviews of vaccines from companies so that consumers could make informed decisions. Vaccines are generally good, but the accountability to keep them that way is not as strong as you'd think. And yes, man made pollutants are still the disaster of this century. Just because we've removed lead from gasoline doesn't mean everything else is fixed.
solotronics 8y ago
This does seem like a possible application of blockchain to me. Yes, this could theoretically be accomplished with a database but if chain of custody was written to a blockchain it would be immutable. Tracing food supply I think is important to some people and this would provide a cryptographically secure way to do so.
- XaoDaoCaoCao 8y ago
  https://youtu.be/WNH7BIzqWNI https://youtu.be/WNH7BIzqWNI
- heyitsguay 8y ago
  "This hamburger has a ton of crack cocaine in it" "Oh no! To the blockchain to find out who did it!" "Nobody recorded adding crack at any point in the supply chain" "But blockchain is immutable and cryptographically secure!"
  - solotronics 8y ago
    This is short sighted. You would at least be able to see exactly who was involved along the line. It would be public knowledge to find unreliable suppliers that had a higher rate of contamination. Also, it would be really cool to see exactly what farm something came from. It doesn't apply to a bag of cheetos but it definately does for a waygu beef steak.
    - heyitsguay 8y ago
      That has nothing to do with a blockchain though - the data structure you use has no ties to the physical entities entering data into it. If there's a regulatory body enforcing compliance, why wouldn't that regulatory body just maintain a database to track the supply chain? More energy efficient, and it aligns the data with its oversight. If there's no regulatory body, then you're back to the original problem - nothing about a blockchain prevents dirty Farm A from entering Farm B into the ledger.
drngdds 8y ago
"What can be done to keep these drugs off our plate?" The simple solution is to stop eating animals.
- jackhack 8y ago
  Or raise your own food (plant and/or meat).
- loco5niner 8y ago
  Even simpler, stop eating.

61 points by prostoalex 8y ago

In other words, dose matters. It's what separates water from being life-sustaining vs. a quick-killing poison. Equipment is getting more sensitive, so you find more cases if you're strictly looking at a binary level. We have different cutoffs for different foods for the same drugs. This does make sense - while an animal may be given an antibiotic and need time to wash out, you're probably not giving it to a shrimp, so why did it get there in the first place?

throwaway5752 8y ago
That is the point of the entire article. CR’s scientists also note that the FSIS cutoffs seem much higher than those used by other scientists, even in other government agencies. And in documents provided to CR, the FSIS acknowledged that even for drugs that should not be in meat, the agency sets its cutoffs above what the test can measure. and Some experts, however, worry that by relying on higher cutoffs, the FSIS may overlook possible health threats. Some research, including a 2015 review in the Journal of Veterinary Science & Toxicology, suggests that long-term exposure to low levels of drug residue in meat could increase the risk of cancer, fetal harm, antibiotic resistance, and more. The article is more disturbing than what I quoted. Also, this is not about antibiotics, it's about substances that are potentially fatal to some, and other substances that are carcinogenic. It's not about "why did it get there in the first places" it's that it shouldn't be there because it's harmful to health.
reacweb 8y ago
I have been dubious of effectiveness of homeopathy during many years. Now, it is widely used in breeding to compensate for prohibited antibiotics. This seems to prove that tiny doses also matter.
- close04 8y ago
  In this case I can sell you Jimi Hendrix's air guitar. Just as good as the physical one [0] and a lot cheaper. [0] https://financesonline.com/10-most-expensive-guitars-of-music-stars-from-eric-clapton-to-jimi-hendrix/ https://financesonline.com/10-most-expensive-guitars-of-musi...
- voldacar 8y ago
  can you source this claim?
  - reacweb 8y ago
    LMGTFY https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5256414/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5256414/ In France, it is very very common that the veterinaries prescribe homeopathy.
    - lucozade 8y ago
      The abstract for that paper states: > Cure rates for the treatments with antibiotics, homeopathy or placebo varied to a high degree, while the remedy used did not seem to make a big difference. Looking at all the studies, no study was repeated under comparable conditions. Consequently, the use of homeopathy currently cannot claim to have sufficient prognostic validity where efficacy is concerned. I read this as suggesting that, rather than homeopathy working, antibiotics don't work particularly well.
    - Luc 8y ago
      For shame, really. A dereliction of duty by those vets. Might as well base your health system on witchcraft.
      - aldoushuxley001 8y ago
        So do you always ignore peer reviewed science or just when it comes to homeopathy?
stefan_ 8y ago
These are exogenous substances - they didn't magically synthesize in the animals from water and grain. As a regulator, any detectable amount should be a case opened to investigate that particular supply chain.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

niceTrope 8y ago

Wow, that's a really nice trope ya got there!

Halluxfboy009 8y ago

The last comment there: "This article has already been condemned by the USDA as rhetoric and untrue. There are no scienitific evidence for any of these claims. Yikes!"

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tastik 8y ago
Yeah - I wish Consumer Reports would stay away from health related news. It's almost always overblown in some way. They really need to stick to their core mission - product reviews.
- kevin_b_er 8y ago
  They are. Products I buy in the supermarket are still products.
DiabloD3 8y ago
This is why you should never use Facebook as your comments system: it allows people to just randomly say ignorant shit that any reasonable adult would never even have thought of that as something have said in the first place.

cies 8y ago

Meat has inherent risk when compared to plant derived foods, and this is about "persistent toxins" (PTs). These toxins "build up" in our tissues and thus may become a threat after consuming small bits of them over a long time span. Since these PTs build up in our tissues, they usually also build up in the tissues of animals. Thus eating animal tissue is exposing us to the buildup of PTs. As an example: it is observed that then some PT got into the environment the small animals did not suffer from it, the slightly bigger animals that eat the small ones also did not, but the larger predators (owls and hawks, iirc) were dying because at their point in the food chain the build up of PTs reached lethal levels. Like another comment said: dose matters. But I like to add that understanding persistence matters probably just as much.

euler_ 8y ago
Sure, bio-accumulation is a risk, but the vast majority of meat eaten by humans is low on the food chain. Fish is a whole different story.
- cies 8y ago
  If they get fed hi-tox soy/corn crop they may be "low" on the food chain as in "not a predator" but the PTs still accumulate. They do not even live long enough to develop the diseases: we do. Also they feed animals each other: see mad cow disease.

Creationer 8y ago

I wish the same energy currently being wasted on anti-vaxx was instead spent on the pollutants in our food, air, water and soil. These pollutants are unavoidable and have a clinically proven negative impact on people, particularly children. DEHP in food containers and household products is very worrying. 'Mom anger' combined with Scientific validity could produce some great improvements. Maybe the solution to the anti-vaxx issue is not to dismiss the rage, but to harness it and direct it to a worthy cause?

Not_a_pizza 8y ago
It would be nice to have independent reviews of vaccines from companies so that consumers could make informed decisions. Vaccines are generally good, but the accountability to keep them that way is not as strong as you'd think. And yes, man made pollutants are still the disaster of this century. Just because we've removed lead from gasoline doesn't mean everything else is fixed.

solotronics 8y ago

This does seem like a possible application of blockchain to me. Yes, this could theoretically be accomplished with a database but if chain of custody was written to a blockchain it would be immutable. Tracing food supply I think is important to some people and this would provide a cryptographically secure way to do so.

XaoDaoCaoCao 8y ago
https://youtu.be/WNH7BIzqWNI https://youtu.be/WNH7BIzqWNI
heyitsguay 8y ago
"This hamburger has a ton of crack cocaine in it" "Oh no! To the blockchain to find out who did it!" "Nobody recorded adding crack at any point in the supply chain" "But blockchain is immutable and cryptographically secure!"
- solotronics 8y ago
  This is short sighted. You would at least be able to see exactly who was involved along the line. It would be public knowledge to find unreliable suppliers that had a higher rate of contamination. Also, it would be really cool to see exactly what farm something came from. It doesn't apply to a bag of cheetos but it definately does for a waygu beef steak.
  - heyitsguay 8y ago
    That has nothing to do with a blockchain though - the data structure you use has no ties to the physical entities entering data into it. If there's a regulatory body enforcing compliance, why wouldn't that regulatory body just maintain a database to track the supply chain? More energy efficient, and it aligns the data with its oversight. If there's no regulatory body, then you're back to the original problem - nothing about a blockchain prevents dirty Farm A from entering Farm B into the ledger.

drngdds 8y ago

"What can be done to keep these drugs off our plate?" The simple solution is to stop eating animals.

jackhack 8y ago
Or raise your own food (plant and/or meat).
loco5niner 8y ago
Even simpler, stop eating.