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Instead of reliable WiFi routers and induction chargers, Mac Pros and you know, laptop keyboards that you can actually type on… We get a credit card, news and

Instead of reliable WiFi routers and induction chargers, Mac Pros and you know, laptop keyboards that you can actually type on… We get a credit card, news and streaming service that no one wants or understands. I really don’t get Apple's priorities recently. Which is a shame, since few companies step to the chalange of serving the expensive high quality tech stuff market. And what happened to the company that wouldn’t pre announce stuff, under promise and over deliver? I just hope they don’t also cancel whatever it is they are doing with the Mac Pro.

fetus8 8y ago
I mean, it's abundantly clear where their priorities are right now...and that's Services. I suppose Services make more money and please the stockholders, but damn if it ain't disappointing to their user-base.
- jeromegv 8y ago
  Your argument would make sense if services were not something paid by.... that same user base. If customers don’t buy into the services, you think this will bring money?
  - fetus8 8y ago
    If users don't pay for a service, the service provider doesn't make money...What's your point? Enough of Apple's user-base subscribe to their current service offerings, and will possibly subscribe to at least one of the new services as well. Unless the entire user-base protests and unsubscribes to every service on offer, they're most likely going to continue to make a profit off of these services, hence the focus on them. (The HN crowd is definitely not the target audience for these services, I am well aware.)
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Except consumers are buying these services. Apple isn't stupid you know. They wouldn't double down on this space if there wasn't money to be made. And given their huge success with Apple Music it's not unreasonable to assume they can do well in other areas.
- beams_of_light 8y ago
  Everyone's trying to get away from their niches, and into anything involving MRR or ad revenue with software & services. It's a sad state of affairs.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    Yea turning everything into a subscription is the hot stuff now, even if it makes no sense to be a subscription. My git client, password manager, have all become subscriptions! Why??
    - dwighttk 8y ago
      yeah, I'm never paying monthly for my password manager. Thankfully 1Password let me roll back, but I need to find a new way forward at some point. The funny thing is I'd probably be fine paying more every year or so than I would with a monthly fee.
      - macintux 8y ago
        You know 1Password offers a yearly subscription, right? I too didn’t think I’d switch to a subscription model for it, but it’s such useful software for so many purposes, and I’m very happy if it makes the company more sustainable. It’s hard to make money with software. I don’t begrudge them at all.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        It's not "I want the term to be yearly" it's "I would pay for permanent upgrades so they could still get money from me repeatedly without a subscription model" Subscriptions are fine as an offer for software that's getting significant new features all the time. But a password manager is the kind of code that barely needs any devs to keep going once it's already in a good state. And it's the kind of code where integrating an online killswitch is extremely dangerous. There's good reason to stay away from that combination.
pkulak 8y ago
Gotta keep growing forever, and they are out of people to sell hardware to.
- bluegreyred 8y ago
  flawed hardware anyway...
clamprecht 8y ago
If you want to know their priorities, listen to what they're telling their investors, not their customers.
minimaxir 8y ago
Interestingly the reception to the credit card was the most positive of all the announcements on Monday.
- threeseed 8y ago
  People use their credit card dozens of times a day. Even small innovations can end up being a big deal. And the ability to identity the source of transactions based on geolocation is pretty cool.
eridius 8y ago
> that no one wants Be careful, just because you don't want this doesn't mean no one wants it. The HN crowd isn't Apple's target demographic with this stuff.
- griffordson 8y ago
  I would love to have something that competes with YouTube TV but respects privacy and doesn't funnel even more data to Google. The other live TV services all have absurdly arbitrary DVR limits. Not that Apple's streaming service will compete with YouTube TV, but I wish it would. Also, YouTube TV doesn't work all that great on Apple TV and I'd hope Apple could get that right too.
  - ihuman 8y ago
    If you want to watch live TV without tracking for a one-time cost (but with no DVR), you could just get an OTA tv receiver and antenna.
    - griffordson 8y ago
      The DVR is critical. And hardware DVRs I've used are horrible. Maybe I haven't tried the right one, but the ones I've tried are less than worthless and I've finally given up on them. I also despise the network specific apps for my devices. Some are great, but most are garbage and constantly require me to authenticate over and over again. And the cost is not a major driver for me.
    - hombre_fatal 8y ago
      Need to do more than that: https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smar...
- spectramax 8y ago
  Yep, developers are a tiny tiny tiny minuscule percentage of Apple's revenue. Apple's move towards services makes perfect sense. Apple now has a grip from the silicon to the end service. The entire stack. That's with the new move towards service starting in 2016 with Apple Music. That's a way to grow for a giant behemoth that Apple is. I don't understand HN sometimes. We live in a tiny bubble and complain without understanding business, market and investor perspectives.
kadendogthing 8y ago
>that no one wants or understands. This comment always comes up in one form or another on tech forums and then Apple proceeds to make more money than it ever has.
nkkollaw 8y ago
Apple's priority is money (which they used to get from iPhones, now services since people don't upgrade their phone anymore). Since most power users/HN users still see Apple as a company that makes good laptops, we don't get what's going on. The truth is that Apple is not nor want to be a computer company anymore, and even if it does sell computers it doesn't make good ones anymore. I bought a Surface Book, and it's about 100 times better than the last laptop I bought from Apple (Late-2016 MacBook Pro): it has an AWESOME keyboard (no repeating characters or keys getting stuck unless my old MBP), touchscreen, you can detach the screen to change its form factor, or have a huge tablet to draw on with the pen. As a plus, the resolution is 3:2--which is awesome for programmers as you get 25% more vertical space. What can I say? Apple will not get another dime for me, and it's only a matter of time until most power users/developers will do the same. In the meantime, I'm enjoying another fuckup from Apple which people will brush off.
- buzzerbetrayed 8y ago
  That's great that you love your Surface Book. But to me, the hardware is only half the equation. I will absolutely not buy a laptop that runs Windows. Sure, I could put Linux on it, but then I'd lose the touch optimized UI. Plus, I prefer MacOS 100 times more than Linux, which I prefer 100 more times than Windows. So even if Microsoft has made better hardware recently, there are still a lot of people like me that buy Mac for MacOS. And I don't see most power users abandoning that for a touch screen.
  - nkkollaw 8y ago
    I abandoned Apple not for a touchscreen, but because every time I hit "f", it would type "fffff", and half the time the spacebar didn't work. After fixing it two times at the Apple store, the logic board died with all the data it had on it. Should not happen after paying 1799 EUR for a laptop. macOS might and is actually great--and hardware might be an afterthought to you, but in a laptop being able to type is kind of an important feature to me. I run Linux and some Linux distros do have touch optimized UIs if you're wondering. As for Windows, it's a perfectly fine choice as well, and not a lot worse than macOS.
geddy 8y ago
> no one wants Can't tell you what this phrase does to me. It's so prevalent in tech and gaming discussions and it'd be tough for me to think of a more holier-than-thou thing to say. There are people in the world who are different then you! That being said, I didn't really understand the streaming service either, and I do agree that their priorities have seemed all over the place lately. I only learned of the upcoming AirPower product about 6 months ago, and having kept my ear lightly to the ground, I've heard all kinds of mixed things about it. I'm honestly not surprised it didn't work out - once I heard the main issue was heat, I knew there were going to be serious issues. Even if it made it to shelves, anything that inherently generates heat, but one that also accepts variable devices, is just asking for trouble. I'm also not an electrical engineer, so maybe it's misguided.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  And yet in this very thread, we have multiple people saying "no one wanted / needed the AirPower for their AirPods etc so yawn/big deal". Goes both ways.
threeseed 8y ago
You do realise this comment is hilariously contradictory. Complains that Apple doesn't release Mac Pros but then also complains that Apple doesn't keep announce new products until they are perfect. What exactly do you want from Apple ? Also Apple never added any value to the WiFi routing space. It's almost like complaining that Apple doesn't make printers or digital cameras again.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Minor quibble, but they most certainly did add value to the router space. As anyone who owned a Linksys router can tell you. And I’d buy a new Apple router on launch day if they re-entered the market. Frankly speaking, I do not trust any extant vendors to not somehow sell my browsing history to advertisers.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  >What exactly do you want from Apple ? Not pre announce stuff they can’t deliver. >Also Apple never added any value to the WiFi routing space Not true. The setup experience is on par with what you’d expect from them. No 192.168… crap. So was signal coverage.
dangoor 8y ago
> Instead of reliable WiFi routers and induction chargers, Mac Pros and you know, laptop keyboards that you can actually type on… > We get a credit card, news and streaming service that no one wants or understands. They also released a major iPad mini update, spec-bumped machines and 2nd gen AirPods. At WWDC, they'll introduce a bunch of software updates for September release. I'm guessing there will be a laptop update, and the Mac Pros as well. Not to mention there will certainly be new iPhones in the fall. Just because they're _also_ trying to build up a more substantial services business doesn't mean that they're not working to push the other areas forward. Better that they didn't ship AirPower than to ship something crappy.
minikites 8y ago
Apple is a lifestyle brand now, not a technology company. Once you frame it in those terms, their decisions make a lot more sense.
scarejunba 8y ago
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
nothis 8y ago
I'd say "alright, time to move on from Apple!" but what competition do they even have in the niche of high quality, UX-focused computer products? There's maybe some that do one or two things really well, but for a full-package experience, like a laptop, it's barren out there. It's not even like I root for Apple to somehow work this out out of some brand loyalty, it's because if they fail, they'll leave a huge gaping hole in the niche they built for themselves.
scarface74 8y ago
Because the former Netflix executives Apple hired could be working on the Mac Pro.....
tambourine_man 8y ago
Replying to the multiple “no one wants“ objection: We already have Netflix, HBO, etc. There's no one making pretty Unix that runs Adobe and Office natively. And keyboards aside, the hardware is usually unmatched when they want to. Besides, and I may have to bite my tongue but, I really doubt Apple can create the breadth and quality of shows that the competition offers, Spielberg and JJ notwithstanding.

fetus8 8y ago

I mean, it's abundantly clear where their priorities are right now...and that's Services. I suppose Services make more money and please the stockholders, but damn if it ain't disappointing to their user-base.

jeromegv 8y ago
Your argument would make sense if services were not something paid by.... that same user base. If customers don’t buy into the services, you think this will bring money?
- fetus8 8y ago
  If users don't pay for a service, the service provider doesn't make money...What's your point? Enough of Apple's user-base subscribe to their current service offerings, and will possibly subscribe to at least one of the new services as well. Unless the entire user-base protests and unsubscribes to every service on offer, they're most likely going to continue to make a profit off of these services, hence the focus on them. (The HN crowd is definitely not the target audience for these services, I am well aware.)
- threeseed 8y ago
  Except consumers are buying these services. Apple isn't stupid you know. They wouldn't double down on this space if there wasn't money to be made. And given their huge success with Apple Music it's not unreasonable to assume they can do well in other areas.
beams_of_light 8y ago
Everyone's trying to get away from their niches, and into anything involving MRR or ad revenue with software & services. It's a sad state of affairs.
- chrischen 8y ago
  Yea turning everything into a subscription is the hot stuff now, even if it makes no sense to be a subscription. My git client, password manager, have all become subscriptions! Why??
  - dwighttk 8y ago
    yeah, I'm never paying monthly for my password manager. Thankfully 1Password let me roll back, but I need to find a new way forward at some point. The funny thing is I'd probably be fine paying more every year or so than I would with a monthly fee.
    - macintux 8y ago
      You know 1Password offers a yearly subscription, right? I too didn’t think I’d switch to a subscription model for it, but it’s such useful software for so many purposes, and I’m very happy if it makes the company more sustainable. It’s hard to make money with software. I don’t begrudge them at all.
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        It's not "I want the term to be yearly" it's "I would pay for permanent upgrades so they could still get money from me repeatedly without a subscription model" Subscriptions are fine as an offer for software that's getting significant new features all the time. But a password manager is the kind of code that barely needs any devs to keep going once it's already in a good state. And it's the kind of code where integrating an online killswitch is extremely dangerous. There's good reason to stay away from that combination.

pkulak 8y ago

Gotta keep growing forever, and they are out of people to sell hardware to.

bluegreyred 8y ago
flawed hardware anyway...

clamprecht 8y ago

If you want to know their priorities, listen to what they're telling their investors, not their customers.

minimaxir 8y ago

Interestingly the reception to the credit card was the most positive of all the announcements on Monday.

threeseed 8y ago
People use their credit card dozens of times a day. Even small innovations can end up being a big deal. And the ability to identity the source of transactions based on geolocation is pretty cool.

eridius 8y ago

> that no one wants Be careful, just because you don't want this doesn't mean no one wants it. The HN crowd isn't Apple's target demographic with this stuff.

griffordson 8y ago
I would love to have something that competes with YouTube TV but respects privacy and doesn't funnel even more data to Google. The other live TV services all have absurdly arbitrary DVR limits. Not that Apple's streaming service will compete with YouTube TV, but I wish it would. Also, YouTube TV doesn't work all that great on Apple TV and I'd hope Apple could get that right too.
- ihuman 8y ago
  If you want to watch live TV without tracking for a one-time cost (but with no DVR), you could just get an OTA tv receiver and antenna.
  - griffordson 8y ago
    The DVR is critical. And hardware DVRs I've used are horrible. Maybe I haven't tried the right one, but the ones I've tried are less than worthless and I've finally given up on them. I also despise the network specific apps for my devices. Some are great, but most are garbage and constantly require me to authenticate over and over again. And the cost is not a major driver for me.
  - hombre_fatal 8y ago
    Need to do more than that: https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smar...
spectramax 8y ago
Yep, developers are a tiny tiny tiny minuscule percentage of Apple's revenue. Apple's move towards services makes perfect sense. Apple now has a grip from the silicon to the end service. The entire stack. That's with the new move towards service starting in 2016 with Apple Music. That's a way to grow for a giant behemoth that Apple is. I don't understand HN sometimes. We live in a tiny bubble and complain without understanding business, market and investor perspectives.

kadendogthing 8y ago

>that no one wants or understands. This comment always comes up in one form or another on tech forums and then Apple proceeds to make more money than it ever has.

nkkollaw 8y ago

Apple's priority is money (which they used to get from iPhones, now services since people don't upgrade their phone anymore). Since most power users/HN users still see Apple as a company that makes good laptops, we don't get what's going on. The truth is that Apple is not nor want to be a computer company anymore, and even if it does sell computers it doesn't make good ones anymore. I bought a Surface Book, and it's about 100 times better than the last laptop I bought from Apple (Late-2016 MacBook Pro): it has an AWESOME keyboard (no repeating characters or keys getting stuck unless my old MBP), touchscreen, you can detach the screen to change its form factor, or have a huge tablet to draw on with the pen. As a plus, the resolution is 3:2--which is awesome for programmers as you get 25% more vertical space. What can I say? Apple will not get another dime for me, and it's only a matter of time until most power users/developers will do the same. In the meantime, I'm enjoying another fuckup from Apple which people will brush off.

buzzerbetrayed 8y ago
That's great that you love your Surface Book. But to me, the hardware is only half the equation. I will absolutely not buy a laptop that runs Windows. Sure, I could put Linux on it, but then I'd lose the touch optimized UI. Plus, I prefer MacOS 100 times more than Linux, which I prefer 100 more times than Windows. So even if Microsoft has made better hardware recently, there are still a lot of people like me that buy Mac for MacOS. And I don't see most power users abandoning that for a touch screen.
- nkkollaw 8y ago
  I abandoned Apple not for a touchscreen, but because every time I hit "f", it would type "fffff", and half the time the spacebar didn't work. After fixing it two times at the Apple store, the logic board died with all the data it had on it. Should not happen after paying 1799 EUR for a laptop. macOS might and is actually great--and hardware might be an afterthought to you, but in a laptop being able to type is kind of an important feature to me. I run Linux and some Linux distros do have touch optimized UIs if you're wondering. As for Windows, it's a perfectly fine choice as well, and not a lot worse than macOS.

geddy 8y ago

> no one wants Can't tell you what this phrase does to me. It's so prevalent in tech and gaming discussions and it'd be tough for me to think of a more holier-than-thou thing to say. There are people in the world who are different then you! That being said, I didn't really understand the streaming service either, and I do agree that their priorities have seemed all over the place lately. I only learned of the upcoming AirPower product about 6 months ago, and having kept my ear lightly to the ground, I've heard all kinds of mixed things about it. I'm honestly not surprised it didn't work out - once I heard the main issue was heat, I knew there were going to be serious issues. Even if it made it to shelves, anything that inherently generates heat, but one that also accepts variable devices, is just asking for trouble. I'm also not an electrical engineer, so maybe it's misguided.

FireBeyond 8y ago
And yet in this very thread, we have multiple people saying "no one wanted / needed the AirPower for their AirPods etc so yawn/big deal". Goes both ways.

threeseed 8y ago

You do realise this comment is hilariously contradictory. Complains that Apple doesn't release Mac Pros but then also complains that Apple doesn't keep announce new products until they are perfect. What exactly do you want from Apple ? Also Apple never added any value to the WiFi routing space. It's almost like complaining that Apple doesn't make printers or digital cameras again.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Minor quibble, but they most certainly did add value to the router space. As anyone who owned a Linksys router can tell you. And I’d buy a new Apple router on launch day if they re-entered the market. Frankly speaking, I do not trust any extant vendors to not somehow sell my browsing history to advertisers.
tambourine_man 8y ago
>What exactly do you want from Apple ? Not pre announce stuff they can’t deliver. >Also Apple never added any value to the WiFi routing space Not true. The setup experience is on par with what you’d expect from them. No 192.168… crap. So was signal coverage.

dangoor 8y ago

> Instead of reliable WiFi routers and induction chargers, Mac Pros and you know, laptop keyboards that you can actually type on… > We get a credit card, news and streaming service that no one wants or understands. They also released a major iPad mini update, spec-bumped machines and 2nd gen AirPods. At WWDC, they'll introduce a bunch of software updates for September release. I'm guessing there will be a laptop update, and the Mac Pros as well. Not to mention there will certainly be new iPhones in the fall. Just because they're _also_ trying to build up a more substantial services business doesn't mean that they're not working to push the other areas forward. Better that they didn't ship AirPower than to ship something crappy.

minikites 8y ago

Apple is a lifestyle brand now, not a technology company. Once you frame it in those terms, their decisions make a lot more sense.

scarejunba 8y ago

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

nothis 8y ago

I'd say "alright, time to move on from Apple!" but what competition do they even have in the niche of high quality, UX-focused computer products? There's maybe some that do one or two things really well, but for a full-package experience, like a laptop, it's barren out there. It's not even like I root for Apple to somehow work this out out of some brand loyalty, it's because if they fail, they'll leave a huge gaping hole in the niche they built for themselves.

scarface74 8y ago

Because the former Netflix executives Apple hired could be working on the Mac Pro.....

tambourine_man 8y ago

Replying to the multiple “no one wants“ objection: We already have Netflix, HBO, etc. There's no one making pretty Unix that runs Adobe and Office natively. And keyboards aside, the hardware is usually unmatched when they want to. Besides, and I may have to bite my tongue but, I really doubt Apple can create the breadth and quality of shows that the competition offers, Spielberg and JJ notwithstanding.