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What does this enterprise slur even mean? Is it like saying a band sold out when they had a hit record? Do we only use undiscovered indie frameworks now?

• jonahx 8y ago
  It means it's everything but the kitchen sink: heavyweight, difficult to learn and use, and full of features you don't need. It has nothing to do with popularity being bad. In general that's good a thing, because support is better (and rails does have terrific support), but it does exert a feature-accretion force.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • digb 8y ago
    I didn’t mean it as a slur! When I wrote .NET, the applications I was working in were massively large and complex, and so mostly what I was working on was optimizing small bits and pieces, and they allowed me to focus ON optimizing those small bits and pieces, because they were what mattered in that context. Rails let’s me focus on the big picture, because that’s what matters in my current context. Express had me working on stuff that I didn’t REALLY care about/want to know about in the context I was in.
  • driverdan 8y ago
    Have you ever used rails? It's not heavy or difficult to learn. Many commonly used things are actually separate gems, not included in the core framework.
• namelosw 8y ago
  My personal guess on this enterprise would be things like Spring or .Net where everything has an interface instead of just do things like Rails.
  • nurettin 8y ago
    Long time rails developer turned "enterprise". Spring-cloud now requires much less boilerplate and is easy to develop with using kotlin's syntactic sugar shortening code and making it more concise. Orm is kind of a failure and requires us to write some queries by hand into string literals, but at least it has it's own sql syntax to avoid engine dependence.
    • vips7L 8y ago
      Spring Boot is so amazing. I don't feel like any of it is boiler plate at all.
      • james_s_tayler 8y ago
        I used to think SpringBoot was amazing until I tried Rails. Then I really felt another level of holy shit. I have lots of love for both. They're different tools. Ultimately I dropped Rails because being without static typing just isn't for me, but certain parts of the experience were positively magical. I sort of feel the same way about Boot. That auto configuration mechanism is next level. The breadth and depth of what's available in the Spring ecosystem is great too. They're really kind of optimized for different things though. Like Rails has some gems you just drop in and it blows you away what you get for stunningly little effort. But then it's not that customizable and you find yourself fighting with it. Spring has all kinds of battle tested enterprise grade bits and bobs that take a lot longer to operationalize but they'll last you forever. I'm currently trying out aspnetboilerplate as a middle ground between the two. Specifically the aspnetzero version. It's like that "holy shit I get all this out of the box?" with Rails but the "I can understand this, work with it, customize it if I need to and it's going to last the distance". Im finding there is a slight learning curve to it and I wouldn't necessarily make all the same choices the framework does, but so far I can see this becoming a happy medium once I've found my groove with it.
    • namelosw 8y ago
      Much less? I haven't use spring cloud for quite a while but last time I did it there's quite some grunt work to make config server / eureka / ribbon / hystrix and friends to work. Let alone the the deployment process. But I think the key difference is Rails is more opinionated so you don't have to worry about which circuit breaker to use. Or just don't use any.
• inapis 8y ago
  When I started, Java and Spring were (still are..) enterprise (Ruby and Rails existed but were not popular in my area and network) and the major criticism in my mind was the difficulty faced as a beginner. Spring was humongous and had so many modules that I just couldn't grasp the purpose of each (I still don't) plus there was a lot of overlapping functionality. Senior devs would come to college and ramble out stuff which made less and less sense as time passed by. Writing a simple app became tedious without a reference by side. So that was enterprise in my mind - tedious, complicated and completely incoherent at times - what and why were completely skipped, at times, in favour of how. At that time I discovered JS and the simplicity of assembling a decent sized app won me over. The startup ecosystem was also picking up pace in my country and speed of iteration mattered more than anything else. Granted JS can become a nightmare (which I learned later) but that speedy feedback compared to Java was enough to make node my "homestack." There were other things which worked strongly against Java in my education - 1. Being forced to use eclipse without training (what are these buttons, what does everything do, how do i do this, I was fighting more against the IDE than anything else) 2. Being forced to use the Oracle database which was (for some xyz reason) given to us in a virtual machine and took ages to run a simple join in a small table of 100-500 records. 3. Programmers with experience can be completely oblivious to the mental model of a beginner. All of this just soured me on "enterprise."
  • jimbokun 8y ago
    "what and why were completely skipped, at times, in favour of how." This is a great summary of much of the frustration of using Spring.