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Man Stole $122M from Facebook and Google by Impersonating Quanta
- sschueller 8y agoThis is very similar to these domain renewal or the trademark renewal invoices spam letters that you get in your mail. They look very legitimate but are actual from other companies just sending you a bill for something that you don't owe. I assume many smaller companies with untrained staff pay these items without double checking and that is why these things still come int he mail. I find the "trademark renewal" ones especially devious as they come from a company called something like "US Trademark Renewal services" and the invoices look like they come from a federal agency.
- Waterluvian 8y agoYou'd think that impersonating the government is the best way to get the DOJ on you, but I suspect they really lack the resources.
- delinka 8y agoIndeed it is illegal and you'll definitely get into trouble with some law enforcement agency if you impersonate the government. But there's not a US Trademark Renewal Services Department to impersonate. You can name your company anything that's not already someone else's property or the name of a governmental body. Are these companies despicable? Yes. Are they misleading people? I'd say so. Can you make a fraud charge stick? Probably not. In cases I've seen, if you read the entire document, including fine print, and you think logically about the content, you can deduce that the companies sending these notices/invoices/wtfe are just hoping the target isn't savvy enough to figure things out.
- rad_gruchalski 8y agoIn the UK, there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and-names/annex-a-sensitive-words-and-expressions-or-words-that-could-imply-a-connection-with-government https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/incorporation-and...
- gcb0 8y agoare suggesting the US should adopt sane, simple, effective legislation?! I'm shocked at your attack on freedom! they will probably solve this by curating a list of "good words to register your company" which then can be claimed as a tax exemption that requires two new forms. which adds $25 to services bill at H&Rblock. like God intended.
- smudgymcscmudge 8y agoBad news. In the US, businesses’ God given right to impersonate the government is already being infringed. I ran across this when reading the rules to register a business a few years back. Maybe it was just a state law, but if that’s on the books in Texas, it’s probably prohibited in all states.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> there is a list of words which can’t be used as part of a registered company name Similar prohibitions exist in America. They’re typically handled at the state level, however, since incorporation is done by states. (Some federal prohibitions exist, however. Like on calling oneself a “national bank.”)
- roywiggins 8y agoWhich just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others...
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> Which just means the persistent can just find a state to incorporate in that is just a little bit more lax than the others At that point, set up in Latvia. Generally speaking, companies incorporated outside Delaware or the state they’re physically in get extra scrutiny. Also, if your only check before issuing payment is looking at the entity’s name, that’s more the problem than anything else.
- jakobegger 8y ago> Can you make a fraud charge stick? Probably not. I wouldn't rely on weasel-wording to keep you out of jail. Even if those people aren't technically lying, it's obvious that they attempt to mislead people into paying for services they have never ordered.
- sokoloff 8y agoIn some of those cases, they're trying to convince someone into ordering a service and paying for it at the same moment. My domains have public registration, so I get a lot of these BS solicitations. (It pleases me every time I get one, because these scammers^DELentrepreneurs are losing money on each of my domains... "If your domain lapses and no one can get to your site, you could lose business or even lose the domain entirely. Renew your domain today for only $99.95!" "If you don't submit your business to Google and drop off of search results, your business could suffer. Send us $100 and we'll handle submitting your site to Google for you." Those statements are not technically wrong; these companies are soliciting to provide a service; obviously techies find the practice abhorrent and misleading, but they live in a muddy grey area where they provide some service and charge money for it.
- 0x0 8y agoHow are they losing money on each of your domains?
- hopler 8y agoLying to people for money via mail is wire fraud, a state and federal crime.
- js2 8y agoThe government used to care about what it alleged was deceptive mail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Government_regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publishers_Clearing_House#Gove...
- baybal2 8y agoIn Russia, we had "pay us 1m dollars or we kill you spam." Unsettling it is, given that once in a million times, the threat carried is true. That was one of many many things that made me leave.
- analog31 8y agoI've gotten ones claiming that I have to send money in order for one of my patents to be registered in some particular country, typically eastern Europe.
- asaph 8y ago> ...these domain renewal or the trademark renewal invoices spam letters that you get in your mail. > They look very legitimate... The ones I've seen do not. And I stopped receiving them altogether a few years after I made my domain name registrations private.
- reaperducer 8y agoI stopped receiving them altogether a few years after I made my domain name registrations private. I keep my registrations public, as they should be. But I stopped getting those letters when I changed the phone number to a VOIP service in another country.
- asaph 8y ago> I keep my registrations public, as they should be. Why should they be public?
- sokoloff 8y agoWhenever you get annoyed by a tedious paperwork exercise to buy something in your company, it helps to realize that crap like this is (part of) why those processes exist.
- Scoundreller 8y agoIn my experience, it’s just motivation to spend your own money on it. Much less frustrating. I spent too much time trying to get that 25’ RJ-11 cable to avoid that tripping hazard. Best $2 I ever spent.
- sokoloff 8y agoMost sensible places have an expedited process for employees for things under some trivial amount (ours is $25).
- Scoundreller 8y agoMaybe in private sector. In public sector... “telecom expenses must go through telecom”, and they may not be willing to bother with the paperwork. And god help you if you’re working in some kind of private-public partnership where that $9 expense is -$9 profit. Sometimes you can get around it if you can find what you need from Staples and order it as an office supply.
- hamandcheese 8y agoIsn’t a $9 expense always -$9 profit in any business?
- repiret 8y agoUnless that $9 expense was facilitating a $400,000 sale. I’ve had a number of those $9 expenses over the years.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
- cosmodisk 8y agoWhile the numbers are impressive,this kind of stuff can be easily done to a lot of companies. If a company lacks proper PO system or things often get done in excel instead of CRM/ERP or similar software, it's pretty tricky to chase all the ends properly. I personally seen many examples where legitimate suppliers double invoice,enter random amounts or inflate them by quite a lot.And these suppose to be the people you are having business with.
- captn3m0 8y agoI’m surprised he went with 100M+ amounts. At that large numbers, you have to be sure that you are gonna get caught. Why not settle for smaller change and call t quits?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Scoundreller 8y agoMaybe nobody did before (other than obvious Nigerian prince scams), and so they slipped through unexpectedly.
- inuhj 8y agoWe don't know that the person being prosecuted is the ultimate recipient of the funds. He could very well be the fall guy.
- azhenley 8y agoIf only he had put his social engineering skills and boldness towards something positive.
- jarfil 8y agoIf he got $120M over 3 years, there aren't many jobs out there which would pay $40M a year. And if you can just send invoices and get paid, why even do any work, like ever?
- azhenley 8y agoMorals? Karma? Guilt? The desire to do something meaningful? The risk of getting caught? He did get arrested after all.
- ratatatatablet 8y agoMorals - My country is being exploited Karma - Gotta get back at exploiters Guilt - My life is in ruins thanks to this hellhole
- ada1981 8y agoLike becoming a CEO!
- ratatatatablet 8y agoI live in the third-world. In the third-world, it doesn't matter what skills you have, usually environment doesn't allow you to use any of them. I don't blame third-worlders for scamming first-worlders. Consider it as a small payment for post-colonization exploitation.
- dboreham 8y agoGiven how hard it can be to get a legitimate invoice paid, this is frustrating to hear.
- GBiT 8y agoI'm from Lithuania, he is a Lithuanian citizen. What is interesting, that his wife told, that he is not capable to do this, because he was a small businessman in the construction business. His wife told, that he doesn't know how to use a computer properly for things like banking etc... USA asked for the extradition of this person, and my country gave him up, but he never was in USA. The only thing he said, is that he meet some guy in Russia, who wanted to do some business with him. It seems, that he was just a proxy. He never saw money... It's a very interesting story to look into because its not so simple how it looks from this post. https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=lt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.15min.lt%2Fnaujiena%2Faktualu%2Fnusikaltimaiirnelaimes%2F100-mln-doleriu-vagyste-kaltinamo-lietuvio-zmona-jis-tam-neturi-smegenu-59-835398 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=lt&tl=en&u=https%3...
- megous 8y agoHe plead guilty and returned $50M. He also didn't have to be a computer hacker, just able to set up company and bank accounts abroad.
- calibas 8y agoIt's "social engineering" part of information security and technically hacking. Smooth talking is often far more effective than "computer hacking".
- UncleEntity 8y agoI, for one, would blame "some guy in Russia" if the alternative was 30 years in prison... ...then plead guilty to all counts.
- sridca 8y agoYes, but do we know the facts of the situation?
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> do we know the facts of the situation? We know he plead guilty and was in a position to return $50 million of stolen money. The top comment takes, on one hand, a mountain of criminal evidence, and weighs it against, on the other hand, things his wife said.
- reuters 8y agoNice.
- fattypouch 8y agothe bear is sticky with honey
- nullc 8y agoFacebook and Google can't keep their money safe, why does anyone think they can keep anyone's data safe?
- tehlike 8y agoIt is true for anything that involves humans at any point. Google, compared to everyone else, is probably best positioned to protect it. Disclaimer: google employee, but opinion above is my own.
- jlarocco 8y ago"Trust me, I'm a google employee, we're probably better than other companies!" Well I'm convinced.
- tehlike 8y agoI don't think i have a duty to convince you. I just know how the sausage is made, and saw practices from other companies. You choose. The alternative is not between "you protect it vs google will protect it". The discussion is "someone that's not me will protect the data" - who should it be - and google gets a headstart there - we have less mess ups than other large companies. That's it. I am not married to my employer. I do not get any compensation in doing so.
- jlarocco 8y agoFraming the discussion that way is disingenuous, though. Most people don't realize the extent to which Google and Facebook track them and collect data, so they're not in a good position to say whether they trust them to protect the data or not. Google's essentially made the decision for them - they're "protecting" it because they've collected it.
- joshuamorton 8y agoI'd agree. But I include most hn posters in the "most people" category. Everyone on this site overestimates tracking.
- everdev 8y ago> He's agreed to forfeit about $50m. It's not clear what's happened to the other $73m I wonder if he was doing this on behalf of someone else? A few million is more than enough to live comfortably for the rest of your life in Lithuania. $122M seems like an addiction or an organized crime ring.
- dmix 8y agoIf anything he should have took his $50M and moved to Russia or some other country without an extradition treaty. His biggest mistake was staying in Lithuania.
- ben1040 8y agoThis sounds like the old copier toner social engineering scam at Google scale. Some random employee would get a call from someone claiming to be from the copier toner supplier, asking for the name of the person in charge of buying that stuff. The pretext might be their files got mixed up and they want to straighten it out, or maybe they're a prospective supplier who wants to beat whatever price you're paying now. Then they make a fake invoice with that name, mail it to the company's accounts payable desk, and hope it gets paid.
- paulpauper 8y agoThis is an example of someone who devises a smart scheme but messes up in the most important stage: keeping the money and getting away with it. Should have just stopped at $10 million or so and moved it into bitcoin and then go on the low-down until statue of limitations passes or change identity or move to non extradition country. Tons of options. . .
- redleggedfrog 8y agoOr they could've done something different with their lives other than be scum-sucking criminals.
- Gpetrium 8y agoIt likely takes quite a bit of willpower to not touch the money for X amount of years. In the meantime, most people are rationalizing why they wouldn't get caught and how it could enhance their lifestyle today.
- _trampeltier 8y agoTo buy an EU passport is easy and legal in a couple of countrys (cheap in Malta, expensive in Austria).
- roywiggins 8y agoHe's Lithuanian, he already has one.
- stemc43 8y agoкрасавчик
- burtonator 8y agoMy company, which is small, gets these forged invoices from time to time. Some of them are pretty good but we're smaller so we're able to see that we're not actually doing business with these companies.
- EGreg 8y agoThis reminds me of a dude who robbed banks by simply slipping a note to the teller asking for money, with no threats. He got it many times.
- pje 8y agoFolk hero, TBH
- jondubois 8y agoJust another reason why corporations should be broken up. The idea that they can so easily transfer that kind of money in a small number of transactions is dangerous.
- onetimemanytime 8y agofraud is bad and illegal. stealing is bad and illegal. But if you're going to do it, do it this way! A++
- makamakamikafon 8y agoWhat a hero. If we all try to scam Google and Facebook then maybe they'd stop existing, but you faxlets are too busy with sucking c0ck for peanuts and not understanding anything ab0ut tragedy of commons.
- forinti 8y agoWhen McNamara arrived at Ford, its accounting was in such a bad state that they weighed batches of invoices in order to have some kind of verification. It must have been scammer's paradise. I just didn't expect such a thing to occur today.