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I talked with a guy living in a motorhome in Mountain View California, he works for Google. He could certainly afford an apartment but said his payments on the

I talked with a guy living in a motorhome in Mountain View California, he works for Google. He could certainly afford an apartment but said his payments on the motorhome are about $600 a month, and an apartment close to Google would be $2500 a month at least, so he feels like its a free $2000 a month to save or spend. He's fortunate that Google also has nice showers, free food, and laundry. Things he might otherwise have to find other options for. I can't argue with the logic. It means $24,000 a year to apply toward student loans or what have you isn't a bad deal. And he will eventually pay off the motorhome giving him some security there. Sadly, most people won't talk about their situation (I tried by walking down a road and knocking on doors) I was hoping to get a sense of how many people were living in motorhomes because they wanted to (like the guy I talked to) and how many were there because they felt they had no choice. I don't have any good ideas on how to get that information. I did enough research to know that building a small lifestyle business out of offering black/grey water pumping and garbage collection services for the folks who were doing this by choice was probably viable. You would need a couple of custom trucks[1] that were capable of being mobile RV dumping stations and a business with sewer rights to dump (the City of Sunnyvale will license a business to have an RV dumping station on site, so starting there would work.) I think it would be a "pump and dump" scheme that would be both good for the neighborhood and probably make enough money to employ a few folks. [1] To be full service you'd probably want a fresh water tank, a propane tank, and a sewage collection tank. Then you could dump the grey/black tanks, refill fresh water and refill propane. Personally I think it makes way more sense than these companies that were sending trucks out to refill your gas tank.

TomK32 8y ago
> "pump and dump" scheme you win.
rhacker 8y ago
Actually a better business is to start having more RV parks in the SV. The last 5 years has been record breaking sales history for RVs. Yet the rest of the industry (RV parks specifically) isn't catching up. Most of the people buying RVs are now surprised that no RV parks have availability. I've watched for the past 5 years bay area periphery cities go from having tons of space any time of the year, to being completely full all the time, no matter what they do to their monthly price. It's kinda crazy.
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  Sort of, sort of not. I agree that it would be better to create more RV parks but the zoning issues are pretty extreme in that most cities are not big fans of RV parks for more historical reasons than actual ones. Sunnyvale, as a city, has preserved its mobile home parks in an effort to keep housing more affordable. I have an inquiry out to a developer on the cost of building a 'multi-story' RV park. Not trying to recreate the "stacks" here (if you're a Ready Player One fan), but wondering if you could increase the available parking spots while not consuming additional acreage. It has to be a better use than 'public storage' buildings.
  - rhacker 8y ago
    These fifth wheels and class As can weigh up to 24000 pounds (even if they where never legally allowed to). A moving object at that weight would make a multi-story RV park an architecture/safety nightmare. I'm talking about east-bay area that still has space. Not sunnyvale. - Just checked out the ready player one images - holy mother of guacamole.
    - axaxs 8y ago
      What about having ground level RV, and apartment/condo/business space on top? * And perhaps additional levels of parking for tenants.
    - ChuckMcM 8y ago
      I agree they are heavy, and even more heavy than the bus chassis they are built on top of, but I see that as an engineering problem right? There are bus depot parking structures where unused commercial buses are parked. And my civil engineering friends are fond of saying that with enough steel and concrete you can hold up anything :-). So as a mental exercise in scaling density by going vertical, in my sketchbook using lot "sizes" that were similar to a KOA RV campground as a baseline (about 30' x 60' per space), an 8 story parking complex on a 5 acre lot could hold 250+ spaces. Ok, and the idea isn't even original, see this: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/mobile-home-skyscrapers-elusive-dream-vertical-urban-trailer-parks/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/mobile-home-skyscrape...
CalRobert 8y ago
The insanity, here, is that you can't take the land the motorhome is on and build a studio on it. We give cars free places to sleep while people are homeless.
- creato 8y ago
  There's a pretty strong notion in this thread that parking is valued at $0 and this is a great social injustice, but this is not the case. Try getting a permit from just about any city to reserve a parking spot for occupying (for construction, moving, etc.). The cost will likely be comparable to renting an apartment of similar area for a similar amount of time. More, if the parking spot is in a high density area (multi-story buildings). Parking is only "free" if you share it. Perma-parking a motorhome or "building a studio on it" is not that.
- gph 8y ago
  >We give cars free places to sleep while people are homeless. This is basically the equivalent of saying, "People give pets free food and shelter while letting the homeless starve, what's wrong with our society" Sure sounds deep and meaningful, but really it isn't
  - joe_the_user 8y ago
    Uh, "People give pets free food and shelter while letting the homeless starve, what's wrong with our society" is ... meaningfull, "telling" but not insightful. Misery and poverty in the midst of plenty is symptom of a serious problem, it's signal we should be thinking about the situation. The non-insightful part is that this, by itself, doesn't point the way out of the problem.
  - benatkin 8y ago
    It is meaningful, if you choose to think about it. Most people choose to ignore it, because it brings up a lot of thoughts that are inconvenient or uncomfortable. Effective Altruism asks these questions. It's a pretty easy decision for me whether to support a pet charity (including the wildly inefficient service of personally rescuing a dog or cat) or a humanitarian charity. It's different if you have pets for your own enjoyment. I really would like straightforward answers. I'm surprised there isn't more things like this: https://causeprioritization.org/Cause_prioritization https://causeprioritization.org/Cause_prioritization It gets very complicated and turns into three dimensional chess. Well I guess I answered my own question of why it's a small niche. This has influenced my thinking a lot: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-fuzzies-and-utilons-separately https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-f... As a consequentialist I'm a bit noncommital. I would hate to spend 40 hours in a month helping an acquaintance to find a job when I could spend that same 40 hours saving a life by making more money and using it to buy mosquito nets for Against Malaria.
mruts 8y ago
One of my friends lives in a shipping container in Oakland in a trailer park. She loves it and pays around $250/month for the space. When I was visiting, the people there are so nice. It’s a community in which people help each other, not like the upper class neighborhoods of my youth. In a span of one day, I got some weed, some beer, and an popsicle. A far cry from many upper class neighborhoods in which no one is willing to talk to each other.
- MiddleEndian 8y ago
  As a heavy introvert, I'm happy not to live in such a situation. I say "hi" to my neighbors, chat a bit sometimes, and other than that we live entirely independent lives. And that's what I like. Even living with close friends can be exhausting to me.
- ecshafer 8y ago
  Your experience is the opposite of most people's experience. I am from a poor rural area full of trailer parks. My experience with them is a place with heavy drug use, domestic abuse, extremely frequent robberies and violence. Definitely not a place most people would like to live given the choice.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Depends pretty heavily on the place. South Dakota has some really good ones and some really bad ones. Checking the light poles generally tells the tale.
    - sixbrx 8y ago
      Now I'm curious, how to tell from the light poles?
      - protomyth 8y ago
        If they are the fancy types (not city) and not broken then it is going to be good. Broken lights generally indicates neglect and crime.
jedberg 8y ago
I know for a while there was a guy living in his camper in the Google parking lot (and was an employee). They were even nice enough to allow him to hook up to their power, and he was in range of the wifi. He basically just went inside to shower and eat (and work of course). Not a bad deal. Not sure if they allow that anymore though.
- compiler-guy 8y ago
  There have been many such people. You have to do it stealthily though, because if Google finds out, it has to kick you off campus due to zoning issues. Any support the company gave is in the long past now.
  - opportune 8y ago
    I wonder, can you get away with it at the Mountain View Walmart? In most of the country Walmart is ok with letting people sleep in their cars/rvs there. But I could see the Mountain View location having different rules
    - whamlastxmas 8y ago
      This has actually changed and a fair amount of Walmarts don't allow this anymore. Which is sad because it was a big ideal of the founding of Walmart.
    - mikestew 8y ago
      Wal-Mart likely intended for you to stay in the lot overnight after some shopping during your trip, not live there. Which is why a lot of Wal-Marts (or by new city ordinance) don’t allow it anymore.
      - impostir 8y ago
        Shit, I have sleeped in at least 15 walmart parking lots over the last year, and I have never had a problem.
    - 8y ago
wdr1 8y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-lived-in-rv-in-google-parking-lot-2016-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-lived-in-rv-in-google... https://www.gizbot.com/miscellaneous/features/5-reasons-why-some-google-employees-live-in-parking-lots/articlecontent-pf54757-032112.html https://www.gizbot.com/miscellaneous/features/5-reasons-why-... https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/article/Google-employee-still-lives-in-box-truck-over-one-9981986.php https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/article/Google-employee-sti...

TomK32 8y ago

> "pump and dump" scheme you win.

rhacker 8y ago

Actually a better business is to start having more RV parks in the SV. The last 5 years has been record breaking sales history for RVs. Yet the rest of the industry (RV parks specifically) isn't catching up. Most of the people buying RVs are now surprised that no RV parks have availability. I've watched for the past 5 years bay area periphery cities go from having tons of space any time of the year, to being completely full all the time, no matter what they do to their monthly price. It's kinda crazy.

ChuckMcM 8y ago
Sort of, sort of not. I agree that it would be better to create more RV parks but the zoning issues are pretty extreme in that most cities are not big fans of RV parks for more historical reasons than actual ones. Sunnyvale, as a city, has preserved its mobile home parks in an effort to keep housing more affordable. I have an inquiry out to a developer on the cost of building a 'multi-story' RV park. Not trying to recreate the "stacks" here (if you're a Ready Player One fan), but wondering if you could increase the available parking spots while not consuming additional acreage. It has to be a better use than 'public storage' buildings.
- rhacker 8y ago
  These fifth wheels and class As can weigh up to 24000 pounds (even if they where never legally allowed to). A moving object at that weight would make a multi-story RV park an architecture/safety nightmare. I'm talking about east-bay area that still has space. Not sunnyvale. - Just checked out the ready player one images - holy mother of guacamole.
  - axaxs 8y ago
    What about having ground level RV, and apartment/condo/business space on top? * And perhaps additional levels of parking for tenants.
  - ChuckMcM 8y ago
    I agree they are heavy, and even more heavy than the bus chassis they are built on top of, but I see that as an engineering problem right? There are bus depot parking structures where unused commercial buses are parked. And my civil engineering friends are fond of saying that with enough steel and concrete you can hold up anything :-). So as a mental exercise in scaling density by going vertical, in my sketchbook using lot "sizes" that were similar to a KOA RV campground as a baseline (about 30' x 60' per space), an 8 story parking complex on a 5 acre lot could hold 250+ spaces. Ok, and the idea isn't even original, see this: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/mobile-home-skyscrapers-elusive-dream-vertical-urban-trailer-parks/ https://99percentinvisible.org/article/mobile-home-skyscrape...

CalRobert 8y ago

The insanity, here, is that you can't take the land the motorhome is on and build a studio on it. We give cars free places to sleep while people are homeless.

creato 8y ago
There's a pretty strong notion in this thread that parking is valued at $0 and this is a great social injustice, but this is not the case. Try getting a permit from just about any city to reserve a parking spot for occupying (for construction, moving, etc.). The cost will likely be comparable to renting an apartment of similar area for a similar amount of time. More, if the parking spot is in a high density area (multi-story buildings). Parking is only "free" if you share it. Perma-parking a motorhome or "building a studio on it" is not that.
gph 8y ago
>We give cars free places to sleep while people are homeless. This is basically the equivalent of saying, "People give pets free food and shelter while letting the homeless starve, what's wrong with our society" Sure sounds deep and meaningful, but really it isn't
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  Uh, "People give pets free food and shelter while letting the homeless starve, what's wrong with our society" is ... meaningfull, "telling" but not insightful. Misery and poverty in the midst of plenty is symptom of a serious problem, it's signal we should be thinking about the situation. The non-insightful part is that this, by itself, doesn't point the way out of the problem.
- benatkin 8y ago
  It is meaningful, if you choose to think about it. Most people choose to ignore it, because it brings up a lot of thoughts that are inconvenient or uncomfortable. Effective Altruism asks these questions. It's a pretty easy decision for me whether to support a pet charity (including the wildly inefficient service of personally rescuing a dog or cat) or a humanitarian charity. It's different if you have pets for your own enjoyment. I really would like straightforward answers. I'm surprised there isn't more things like this: https://causeprioritization.org/Cause_prioritization https://causeprioritization.org/Cause_prioritization It gets very complicated and turns into three dimensional chess. Well I guess I answered my own question of why it's a small niche. This has influenced my thinking a lot: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-fuzzies-and-utilons-separately https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/3p3CYauiX8oLjmwRF/purchase-f... As a consequentialist I'm a bit noncommital. I would hate to spend 40 hours in a month helping an acquaintance to find a job when I could spend that same 40 hours saving a life by making more money and using it to buy mosquito nets for Against Malaria.

mruts 8y ago

One of my friends lives in a shipping container in Oakland in a trailer park. She loves it and pays around $250/month for the space. When I was visiting, the people there are so nice. It’s a community in which people help each other, not like the upper class neighborhoods of my youth. In a span of one day, I got some weed, some beer, and an popsicle. A far cry from many upper class neighborhoods in which no one is willing to talk to each other.

MiddleEndian 8y ago
As a heavy introvert, I'm happy not to live in such a situation. I say "hi" to my neighbors, chat a bit sometimes, and other than that we live entirely independent lives. And that's what I like. Even living with close friends can be exhausting to me.
ecshafer 8y ago
Your experience is the opposite of most people's experience. I am from a poor rural area full of trailer parks. My experience with them is a place with heavy drug use, domestic abuse, extremely frequent robberies and violence. Definitely not a place most people would like to live given the choice.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Depends pretty heavily on the place. South Dakota has some really good ones and some really bad ones. Checking the light poles generally tells the tale.
  - sixbrx 8y ago
    Now I'm curious, how to tell from the light poles?
    - protomyth 8y ago
      If they are the fancy types (not city) and not broken then it is going to be good. Broken lights generally indicates neglect and crime.

jedberg 8y ago

I know for a while there was a guy living in his camper in the Google parking lot (and was an employee). They were even nice enough to allow him to hook up to their power, and he was in range of the wifi. He basically just went inside to shower and eat (and work of course). Not a bad deal. Not sure if they allow that anymore though.

compiler-guy 8y ago
There have been many such people. You have to do it stealthily though, because if Google finds out, it has to kick you off campus due to zoning issues. Any support the company gave is in the long past now.
- opportune 8y ago
  I wonder, can you get away with it at the Mountain View Walmart? In most of the country Walmart is ok with letting people sleep in their cars/rvs there. But I could see the Mountain View location having different rules
  - whamlastxmas 8y ago
    This has actually changed and a fair amount of Walmarts don't allow this anymore. Which is sad because it was a big ideal of the founding of Walmart.
  - mikestew 8y ago
    Wal-Mart likely intended for you to stay in the lot overnight after some shopping during your trip, not live there. Which is why a lot of Wal-Marts (or by new city ordinance) don’t allow it anymore.
    - impostir 8y ago
      Shit, I have sleeped in at least 15 walmart parking lots over the last year, and I have never had a problem.
  - 8y ago

wdr1 8y ago

https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-lived-in-rv-in-google-parking-lot-2016-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-lived-in-rv-in-google... https://www.gizbot.com/miscellaneous/features/5-reasons-why-some-google-employees-live-in-parking-lots/articlecontent-pf54757-032112.html https://www.gizbot.com/miscellaneous/features/5-reasons-why-... https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/article/Google-employee-still-lives-in-box-truck-over-one-9981986.php https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/article/Google-employee-sti...