5 ms·

Sounds like Berlin, which is totally different than pretty much every other place in Germany :-) FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered, even if unempl

by JanSt 8y ago

Sounds like Berlin, which is totally different than pretty much every other place in Germany :-) FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered, even if unemployed or working for low wages. The more you earn, the more you pay (capped at ~400€). Your family is insured for no extra payment. You obviously don‘t fit the system because you believe you should pay less (single, young, healthy) but that‘s exactly not what it is. Poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected. Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. That‘s free healthcare - dignity! Not paying little no nothing if you‘re young and healthy.

expertentipp 8y ago
> poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected > Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. > That‘s free healthcare - dignity! I guess the middle age male homeless sitting and sleeping all over the cities and transport venues damage your vision slightly. Don't even try the narrative "it's eastern Europeans, it's their own fault".
- JanSt 8y ago
  First of all, maybe in Berlin. There are a few reasons for people living in the streets. Drugs is a big one, especially in Berlin. You won‘t find that in most of Germany. Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare.
  - expertentipp 8y ago
    > Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare. Free apartment for a foreigner living in the country only over 3 months?! Dude, people on employment contract with over average income, staying in the country for years are having difficulties to find anything for rent in any major city, buying is out of question. Did you swallow an info brochure of German ministry for social affairs?
    - digitalixus 8y ago
      That is the exact kind of post I refer to - post any negative thing about Germany and the PR team is out in full force to perform damage control.
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      > in any major city Well, there’s your problem. If you are unemployed, there is hardly any reason to stay in a big city.
      - expertentipp 8y ago
        Hartz4 while living in the countryside? That’s pretty much synonymous of dead end hopeless downward spiral.
    - JanSt 8y ago
      approx. 500.000 Berliners receive Hartz 4
- auxym 8y ago
  Given how plenty of other countries with free healthcare also have homelessness problems, I doubt these issues are related all that closely. Have a look at the large Canadian cities: Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Or France, whose residents use the three letter acronym SDF to refer to the homeless. Anecdotally, I've heard that a significant proportion of them have mental health issues for which they refuse treatment, free or not. It's also a problem of housing accessibility (interesting article: https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finland-solved-homelessness-eu-crisis-housing-first https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finl...) and support for transitioning to gainful employment.
- ChuckNorris89 8y ago
  The "eastern Europeans" rant was a cheap shot. Germany's and most other wealthy EU countries' problems are mostly self inflicted, but it's always easier to blame "those Eastern Europeans" because it's politically corect.
solidsnack9000 8y ago
FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered... Sounds like universal healthcare, not free healthcare.
- imtringued 8y ago
  Yes it is universal healthcare but one of the biggest complaints merely attacks the word "free". The complain is that how can something be "free" when someone else has to pay for it. The definition of free literally means that someone else has to pay for it (externalities and labor to extract resources from the land count as payment). Real "free" anything where nobody pays anything doesn't exist. It's a strawman.

by JanSt 8y ago

expertentipp 8y ago

> poor, old, unhealthy people, those who suffer in life are protected > Cancer won‘t bankrupt your family, you won‘t end on the street. > That‘s free healthcare - dignity! I guess the middle age male homeless sitting and sleeping all over the cities and transport venues damage your vision slightly. Don't even try the narrative "it's eastern Europeans, it's their own fault".

JanSt 8y ago
First of all, maybe in Berlin. There are a few reasons for people living in the streets. Drugs is a big one, especially in Berlin. You won‘t find that in most of Germany. Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare.
- expertentipp 8y ago
  > Fact is, most people who are legally in Germany for >3 months are legible for Hartz 4: a free apartment, free heating and a few hundred Euro. And free healthcare. Free apartment for a foreigner living in the country only over 3 months?! Dude, people on employment contract with over average income, staying in the country for years are having difficulties to find anything for rent in any major city, buying is out of question. Did you swallow an info brochure of German ministry for social affairs?
  - digitalixus 8y ago
    That is the exact kind of post I refer to - post any negative thing about Germany and the PR team is out in full force to perform damage control.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    > in any major city Well, there’s your problem. If you are unemployed, there is hardly any reason to stay in a big city.
    - expertentipp 8y ago
      Hartz4 while living in the countryside? That’s pretty much synonymous of dead end hopeless downward spiral.
  - JanSt 8y ago
    approx. 500.000 Berliners receive Hartz 4
auxym 8y ago
Given how plenty of other countries with free healthcare also have homelessness problems, I doubt these issues are related all that closely. Have a look at the large Canadian cities: Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Or France, whose residents use the three letter acronym SDF to refer to the homeless. Anecdotally, I've heard that a significant proportion of them have mental health issues for which they refuse treatment, free or not. It's also a problem of housing accessibility (interesting article: https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finland-solved-homelessness-eu-crisis-housing-first https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finl...) and support for transitioning to gainful employment.
ChuckNorris89 8y ago
The "eastern Europeans" rant was a cheap shot. Germany's and most other wealthy EU countries' problems are mostly self inflicted, but it's always easier to blame "those Eastern Europeans" because it's politically corect.

solidsnack9000 8y ago

FREE healthcare means that everyone is covered... Sounds like universal healthcare, not free healthcare.

imtringued 8y ago
Yes it is universal healthcare but one of the biggest complaints merely attacks the word "free". The complain is that how can something be "free" when someone else has to pay for it. The definition of free literally means that someone else has to pay for it (externalities and labor to extract resources from the land count as payment). Real "free" anything where nobody pays anything doesn't exist. It's a strawman.