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The Intercept Shuts Down Access to Snowden Trove
- lern_too_spel 8y agoNow The Intercept is for hosting Greenwald's petty feud with MSNBC talking heads. https://theintercept.com/2018/07/08/msnbc-does-not-merely-permit-fabrications-against-democratic-party-critics-it-encourages-and-rewards-them/ https://theintercept.com/2018/07/08/msnbc-does-not-merely-pe... https://theintercept.com/2019/03/03/msnbc-yet-again-broadcasts-blatant-lies-this-time-about-bernie-sanders-opening-speech-and-refuses-to-correct-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/03/03/msnbc-yet-again-broadcas... https://theintercept.com/2019/01/07/nbc-and-msnbc-blamed-russia-for-using-sophisticated-microwaves-to-cause-brain-injuries-in-u-s-diplomats-in-cuba-the-culprits-were-likely-crickets/ https://theintercept.com/2019/01/07/nbc-and-msnbc-blamed-rus... Etc., etc., etc.
- gthtjtkt 8y agoI think his criticism is justified and very well substantiated. What makes you think it's nothing more than a "petty feud"?
- ahoy 8y agoNot that I really care about Glenn Greenwald one way or another, but do you think criticism of major media isn't a worthwhile thing?
- lern_too_spel 8y agoHe focuses entirely on MSNBC talking heads that he feuds with, not on actual news reporting. Criticism of talking heads is easy and not newsworthy.
- leesec 8y agoLol "Entirely". He runs a news organization and puts out constant publications/podcasts/etc on things that are not just criticizing talking heads.
- lern_too_spel 8y agoEntirely may be an exaggeration. I should have said mostly. His recent articles list on The Intercept support that.
- ahoy 8y agoI just skimmed Greenwald's bylines and here's some recent media crit that isn't about msnbc https://theintercept.com/2019/02/03/nbc-news-to-claim-russia-supports-tulsi-gabbard-relies-on-firm-just-caught-fabricating-russia-data-for-the-democratic-party/ https://theintercept.com/2019/02/03/nbc-news-to-claim-russia... (about nbc) https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/ https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-w... (about multiple outlets, lots of wapo) https://theintercept.com/2018/11/29/cnn-submits-to-right-wing-outrage-mob-fires-marc-lamont-due-to-his-offensive-defense-of-palestinians-at-the-un/ https://theintercept.com/2018/11/29/cnn-submits-to-right-win... (about CNN) I'd say at a glance there is slightly more crit of MSNBC than other major news outlets, but doesn't that make sense given the intercept's left-libertarian leanings? Of course they don't think brietbart or fox is doing good reporting. So bad in fact that it's not even worth commenting on.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago> So bad in fact that it's not even worth commenting on. The real reason is that Greenwald isn't feuding with Fox News's political commentators. He is a frequent guest on their shows.
- pdeuchler 8y agoThis is possibly the laziest critique of Greenwald out there https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Aggreenwald%20fox%20news&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Aggreenwald%20fox%20news&...
- lern_too_spel 8y agoAre you looking at the same link that you posted? Most of those comments are supportive of Fox News. That is possibly the laziest link posting I've ever seen.
- fouc 8y agoOf the first 8 comments, it appears that 3 are critical, 1 is supportive, and 4 are neutral/factual. [critical] It took demand of Canada's Government for @FoxNews to finally delete false tweet blaming Muslims for mosque attack [neutral] Isn't it a little strange to constantly rail about "state TV" when it comes to RT & Fox and then hire CIA Directors & General as your "news analysts"? [critical] You can announce on MSNBC that Putin may have ordered Trump's attack on Assad & then scoff at Fox & Fake News [neutral] "One giant Fox News" - how Wagner Moura explains to his American friends what the dominant Brazilian media is like [supportive] Kudos to Fox News' @KirstenPowers asking Trump about Ailes & getting amazing answers http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/08/01/ailes-trump-sexual-harassment-fox-news-women-gretchen-kelly-greta-news-column/87915454/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/08/01/ailes-trump... … [neutral] Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage - major backer of both BREXIT & Trump - joins Fox News as a contributor [critical] Starting now: coverage of the greatest and most orchestrated governmental threat to free speech in the US: legally imposed Israel Oaths (a story self-professed free speech crusaders at Fox News have thus far refused to cover, because doing so might offend their viewers) [neutral] When Reagan transmitted the treaty to the Senate in 1988, he said it was necessary to prosecute all torturers, and allow no justifications for its use. Might be worth reading to Fox News guests, and ex-CIA officials defending Gina Haspel http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858 http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858
- cwkoss 8y agoMSNBC is rapidly devolving to the Infowars of the left. I think criticism is entirely founded and important: some people still think MSNBC is an unbiased and accurate source.
- insickness 8y agoGreenwald is one of the last remaining journalists out there who sincerely criticize both the left and the right. While I disagree with a lot of what he writes, I give him a huge amount of credit for it.
- _Codemonkeyism 8y agoGreenwald is a political activist.
- acct1771 8y agoGood journalists have to be, it seems.
- _Codemonkeyism 8y agoNo. This is the sign of our times. And I might follow you, I might join your club if you're an activist, but I will not read your news site and pay for it if I want news. Activist opinions are free today.
- dictum 8y agoNot to comment on Greenwald personally, but how can you (outside of very cynical nihilism) analyze political/social activities and relationships in depth and not be, to some degree, an activist yourself?
- petty_griper 8y agoEveryone is a political activist, even people just going about their day. The only difference is the degree to which you're honest with yourself and others about it.
- lern_too_spel 8y agoAnn Coulter also criticizes both the left and the right. Credit should be given to those who can do so intelligently and egolessly, and neither Coulter nor Greenwald pass that bar.
- 8y ago
- jaabe 8y agoIt often amazes me how little Snowden changed. I mean, surveillance and targeted misinformation campaigns is worse than our worst dystopian fiction ever imagined, but no one really cares. It’s getting worse too with more and more anti-encryption laws and centralisation. That being said, since the Snowden information isn’t changing the world, then I can’t really fault anyone for not wanting to pay for hosting it.
- fouc 8y agoBefore Snowden, the extent of surveillance was only suspected, there were the occasional whistleblower, but there was nothing definitive enough to tie it all together, there was a lot of uncertainty and it felt very much in the realm of conspiracy theories. After Snowden, we now know with greater certainty that the surveillance is truly far reaching and more multi-faceted than we could've imagined.
- jdp23 8y agoTrue. Still, I agree with the GP poster: very little has changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act had some improvements but also made some things worse; FISA Section 702 was renewed without significant changes in early 2018. Before Snowden, civil liberties activists (including me!) used to say "If people knew the extent of mass surveillance, they'd be up in arms - and we'd see some real changes." But no.
- tru3_power 8y agoI totally agree with this. Personally I think the reason for this is because a lot of people don’t really comprehend what’s going on and can’t visualize the level of surveillance that’s actually already in place (they don’t see physical cameras/microphones everywhere).
- lern_too_spel 8y agoI think most of the reason is that many people who post online got Greenwald's misreporting of the NSA documents (OMG, PRISM can access anybody's emails), while the public in general got the less sensational facts about what the NSA was actually doing.
- antihero 8y agoIs there a raw archive available?
- ColanR 8y agoQuick google search: https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/nsadocs https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/nsadocs
- Shank 8y agoThis isn't the raw archive. It's just a collection of all of the released documents from the archive and links to associated news articles that source the archive or release documents from it. As far as I'm aware, you cannot download a tarball or equivalent of the _entire raw archive_.
- ColanR 8y agoFair enough. What about this? https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/12034365/Ultimate_NSA_File_archive_(RAW_Docs___Fully_Snowden_Docs___NSA_D https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/12034365/Ultimate_NSA_File_...
- peterkelly 8y agoI think that given the lack of reforms among five eyes governments in the aftermath of the disclosures (and in fact examples of laws making things worse), an appropriate course of action would be to dump the entire archive, unredacted, for public consumption.
- mtgx 8y agoNot only that, but the 5 Eyes alliance pushed through laws that would legalize much of what was uncovered before anyone got any "bright ideas" to start prosecuting the spies, or before the public started asking for such actions. Now, they can lay back and say "look, it's all legal now" (even if much may still be unconstitutional).
- driverdan 8y agoIs anyone else disappointed by what The Intercept turned into? When it was formed I expected it to be an honest, unbiased journalistic effort that would expose people of different backgrounds to uncomfortable truths. Instead it turned into editorials and blogging, with most posts filled with strong, obvious bias that would never pass the editors at most mainstream publications. Their biases are so strong and clear I'm sure they scare away at least half of the political spectrum. It's too bad because the topics and facts they report on are important and interesting. There's no need for such strong bias.
- blablabla123 8y agoYeah a lot of stuff there seems to be a bit extreme, despite some really well researched articles or even original investigations that you won't find elsewhere. Also it's not sympathetic at all that they exposed an interviewee of one piece.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- hannob 8y agoYou want unbiased journalism. I hate to tell you, but there is no such thing.
- MrZongle2 8y agoYou're right, but there's a difference between journalism that attempts to be objective and present all sides of a story.... and the tabloid-level partisan garbage that is presented by major media outlets today. For a while, The Intercept looked like it was going to be a breath of fresh air.
- acct1771 8y agoIf you hide your bias, I can't judge it as easily.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- rfugger 8y agoI feel like the advent of Trump has taken some of the urgency out of tearing down the worst parts of the national security infrastructure, and probably removed that as a possibility while he's around, since he seems to only want to destroy what is good and functional. It's like not being able to worry about chronic back pain because you're bleeding to death.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 8y agoIf you're talking about what the media perceives as a threat, yes. They run negative coverage 24/7 on a single person, even for positive events, instead of real journalism about things that are actually destroying our democracy, like increased surveillance.
- mrguyorama 8y agoAre you arguing that Trump is not attempting to destroy American democracy?
- 908087 8y agoI think we would have had a much better chance of seeing Snowden make a difference had he "happened" during a republican presidency. Many sports team style democrats I knew who were flipping out about surveillance during the last Bush administration quickly switched over to "having nothing to hide" and calling Snowden a traitor because "their team" was in office at the time. People rarely seem to have any actual principles they're willing to stand by when tribalism comes into play.
- wtmt 8y agoFrom Glenn Greenwald’s tweet [1], which is quoted in this article: > “Both Laura & I have full copies of the archives, as do others. The Intercept has given full access to multiple media orgs, reporters & researchers. I've been looking for the right partner - an academic institution or research facility - that has the funds to robustly publish.” Now this news doesn’t sound all too bad. We probably need more people to host it and/or make it available as torrent downloads. Even if interest has reduced, there could still be more knowledge to gain from it. [1]: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1106015482598043648 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1106015482598043648
- dsr_ 8y agoThere's really very little funding requirement, unless what Greenwald is looking for is a salary for himself. I bet the Internet Archive would be happy to publish it immediately.
- Shank 8y agoSo, I think a real issue is that it's not made clear how this archive exists. In Citizenfour, it was made clear that Snowden specifically gave the documents to journalists for the purposes of responsible disclosure and reporting. There was the suggestion of publishing the archive in public with all data, but that was shot down as it was too risky in Snowden's eyes. So the archive is mostly a huge collection of documents that have to undergo editing for opsec reasons, so as to not endanger actual people or reveal enough that it might go from "journalism" to "espionage" that warrants a greater release. I don't believe the full archive was ever public. Instead, it was privately held and being maintained by people for research and publication. The Intercept winding this down signifies they no longer care to sift through or maintain the documents. That means that the editing part is gone, and they won't devote further resources internally to it. The decision to host the documents isn't the issue -- moreso the maintenance, reporting, and sourcing.
- dsr_ 8y agoThat was nearly six years ago. Secrets should have lifespans, and governments are notoriously bad at ever deciding that a secret should be released.
- gigama 8y agohttps://ipfs.io https://ipfs.io
- hombre_fatal 8y agoThat's only cheaper if anyone decides to host it on their nodes, too. Might as well just seed it with bittorrent.
- pcvarmint 8y agohttp://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm