14 ms·

Android Q Beta

229 points by skiman10 8y ago

skiman10 8y ago
Blog post isn't up yet, but you can get the factory images here: https://developer.android.com/preview/download https://developer.android.com/preview/download. Sign up for the OTA should be here: https://g.co/androidbeta https://g.co/androidbeta when Google decides to update everything.
- el_duderino 8y ago
  It's up now.
whalesalad 8y ago
That screenshot of the modal prompt re: device location is virtually identical to the iOS dialog. Not trying to start a flame war here just interesting to see the striking resemblance. Example: https://mackuba.eu/images/posts/ios11-location/ios11-always.png https://mackuba.eu/images/posts/ios11-location/ios11-always.... (taken from https://mackuba.eu/2017/07/13/changes-to-location-tracking-in-ios-11/ https://mackuba.eu/2017/07/13/changes-to-location-tracking-i...)
- jsight 8y ago
  I thought you were exaggerating until I went to look. That does look just like the notifications that I get on the ipad. I'm surprised to see them match it so closely, but I'm glad to see improvements in this area on Android anyway.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  Good ideas have flowed in both directions - such as iOS's notification center having a "striking resemblance" to Android's notification shade.
- joekrill 8y ago
  It is pretty striking how similar the UI is starting to look compared to iOS. And I say that as someone largely on the Android side of the Android-iOS debate. Also add to that the shift recently to move navigation to the bottom of the screen in the form of tabs. I guess ultimately there's plenty of examples of this happening both ways, though.
- caprese 8y ago
  Convergent evolution occurs when independent traits evolve as a result of having to adapt to similar environments or ecological niches.
  - blotter_paper 8y ago
    Other times an adaptation of one animal so radically changes the environment that other animals adapt similar traits because of it. When one poisonous insect becomes red and birds learn to avoid red insects, red is a useful color for other insects to be as well. Innovation is good, but copying good innovation isn't bad; variation let's us explore, convergence let's us carry experiences from one platform onto another. I like that the two dialogs look so similar, though I wish Google would copy Apple's text formatting a bit more closely, and I feel like Apple should copy the location marker at the top of Google's dialog.
- jayd16 8y ago
  Its a white dialog with blue clickable text. The text length makes standard blue buttons impossible. This is just what state of the art "developer ugly" looks like.
- oDot 8y ago
  Both of them are actually converging to look and behave like webOS 10 years ago
  - aaronbrethorst 8y ago
    Makes sense in the case of Android. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat%C3%ADas_Duarte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat%C3%ADas_Duarte
- fvjft 8y ago
  This is shameful. I have no words. It's practically a verbatim copy. Of course, getting the font sizes wrong, because it's Android. But other than that, just shameful. It doesn't even look like Material design. I seriously hope they change it before release. It's like the engineer in charge of the feature couldn't get a hold of a designer and so had to make the design himself... so he just took if off his own phone.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  I wish the text was bigger on the Android version, similar to how much more space it takes up on the Apple one. Boosting readability is important, and the font is a little small for my taste.
  - whalesalad 8y ago
    Agree. This looks like the kind of UI that was designed in Photoshop or perhaps a device simulator and then never vetted on a real device by a real person. It's not great.
  - jfyne 8y ago
    Most likely can be made a lot bigger using both font and display size settings in Android
- andrepd 8y ago
  It makes me beyond annoyed that google seems to insist on radically changing the design of their apps every 6 months, for no discernible reason, with no unifying theme or thread or underlying rationale.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    You're not the only one. I got yet another update to Gmail on Android a couple of weeks ago - honestly, it looks familar... it's like they've changed it so many times it's back round to how it was at some point in the past! I really wish they'd just stop .
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Android's GMail update sucks for those that can't stand high values of white, it is like being at an interrogation room with a spotlight on the face.
      - GordonS 8y ago
        I agree - there really is a lot of white in the latest update! I'd much prefer a bit of colour to help delineate different sections of the UI, such as the search bar and buttons.
        Mindwipe 8y ago
        So would everyone except Google's in house design team, which has lost the plot. There seems to be some suggestion this was done for the purposes of enabling dark mode, which has never made the slightest bit of sense tbh.
  - whalesalad 8y ago
    This is the essence of Google. They’re too big to fail so they can pretty much do whatever they want. Kill huge apps (Reader, Picasa), major paradigm shifts in UI, abandoning projects, fragmented efforts... how many messenger platforms do they have again? Pretty much any other company would die from this kind of wheel spinning and frantic behavior, they’re fortunate to get away with it.
- boznz 8y ago
  Very Surprised if Apple don't have a patent for a modal box :-)
  - taneq 8y ago
    They do, but you have to double-click to dismiss it because Amazon has a patent on single clicking.
    - philliphaydon 8y ago
      They have a patent for single click buying. Not “single click” that I’m aware of...
- keerthiko 8y ago
  Convergence of UX for the same context and expectations is a Good Thing. This is symmetric to expecting cmd + X and cmd + Z to do the same thing on different OSs and apps. No reason for it to be considered a bad thing.
  - iscrewyou 8y ago
    The design looks the same. The idea makes sense but the design is strikingly similar. I think that’s what OP was getting at.
- Slippery_John 8y ago
  The iOS one is still better IMO because they can/have (?) to say what they're using it for in the dialog.
- stephencoyner 8y ago
  iOS and Android design seems to be converging more and more lately. Starting with material 2, Google has decided to center align a log more elements on the screen (text, icons, etc). Google has also shifted to a lot more white and gray with blue used for actionable items. In both cases it seems like apple got it right the first time, Google tried to pioneer the opposite and has now gone back and copied Apple. Meanwhile a bunch of designers at Google have gotten promoted for their diligent work.
- RandomNewGuy 8y ago
  Looks like designers at Google are more used to iOS than to Android... That dialog has little to do with Material principles...
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    To the point that the Material design files are only available in Sketch, screw Android designers that happen to use other platforms.
m52go 8y ago
I was just watching a video a couple minutes ago about changes to system navigation in Android Q [0]. Oddly, I don't see any mention of it in this blog post. Can someone explain how (1) switching buttons into gestures and (2) changing the recent apps screen from a list of all apps on 1 screen to a full screen for each app...how are these good ideas? What is the design philosophy for these changes? They seem like gargantuan steps back in ease-of-use and intuitive design. I'm looking forward to jumping to a Pine64 or Purism phone before I am compelled to use this mindless ripoff of stupid Apple interface design. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCM2SR5pDn4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCM2SR5pDn4
- whalesalad 8y ago
  I think you're going to be in for a big ol' frothy glass of reality check juice if you're thinking Purism is going to have better usability than Android or iOS...
  - gattilorenz 8y ago
    > The back button is vestigial tech debt. Gestures are the future. I don't necessarily think that the back button will remain, but I think it SHOULD remain. Gestures are cool, but the back button is like the undo feature: it gives user a visible, clear button to correct a mistake or cancel an action. Gestures are not immediately visible/discoverable, so while for a tech savvy it might not be a problem, for the average consumer (think of your dad, or aunt, or grandpa) it is a usability regression.
    - whalesalad 8y ago
      Devils advocate: the iPhone has never had a physical back button and it's a wildly successful device with people across all walks of life and levels of technical experience. I think a lot of Android users feel this way but it is clear that Android is moving away from physical buttons. It's a crutch that Google is finally getting rid of.
      - 8y ago
pjmlp 8y ago
So, Vulkan is now compulsory, most likely given the way OEMs cared about supporting it and keeping up with Vulkan updates. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/vulkansupport.php#android_devices https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/vulkansupport.php#android_devices More sandboxing of Android APIs, permissions and introduction of roles. They added a C++ MIDI API, but searching for plugged devices can only be done at Java layer. Speaking of which, it is going to be the usual partial Java 8 variant, and Java 12 is going live next week.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  > So, Vulkan is now compulsory There is nothing to suggest that Vulkan is now required. > Speaking of which, it is going to be the usual partial Java 8 variant, and Java 12 is going live next week. Java's version number has been hijacked to mean OpenJDK's runtime version & handful of non-core library updates that don't exist on Android anyway. It has vanishingly little to do with the actual language or core libraries these days. The only thing of interest at all between Java 9, 10, and 11 are var handles (compiler-only, no runtime support needed - should work fine on Android), and the Flow class. Which is unfortunately missing, yes, but not particularly significant. Might work better as an AndroidX addition anyway.
  - Twirrim 8y ago
    > There is nothing to suggest that Vulkan is now required. From the article: "We're working together with our device manufacturer partners to make Vulkan 1.1 a requirement on all 64-bit devices running Android Q and higher, and a recommendation for all 32-bit devices."
    - kllrnohj 8y ago
      Which means it's not required as long as 32-bit devices are allowed to ship as well. It will be a large percentage, like GLES 3 is, but not required, like GLES 3 isn't.
      - desdiv 8y ago
onychomys 8y ago
Nice to see that the original Pixel and PixelXL will be getting Q. It's always struck me as weird that Google sells that line of phones ostensibly for people who care about their OSes more than normal, and then only offers a couple of years of new OSes on them. Maybe we're seeing them turn the corner on that.
- petecox 8y ago
  Despite launching with Nougat, Pixel 1 devices were the testbed for Project Treble. https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/05/18/current-google-pixelpixel-xl-will-support-project-treble-possibly-meaning-longer-support/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/05/18/current-google-pixe...
AdmiralAsshat 8y ago
> Android was designed with security and privacy at the center. Right. That's why ostensibly local apps can make unfettered connections to the internet without my having any knowledge or way of stopping it, right?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- skybrian 8y ago
  This is relative to desktop where traditional apps don't even run in a sandbox and app permissions weren't a thing. A Linux app can not only create Internet connections, it can read and write all your personal files. (But we thought that was pretty secure since it didn't run as root.)
  - c256 8y ago
    This feels almost obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
  - flukus 8y ago
    Linux apps aren't infested with malware and tracking trojans though, if the threat doesn't exist then there's no reason to protect from it. With android collecting this sort of data is it's very reason for existence.
    - skybrian 8y ago
      We don't usually see widespread infections, but Linux malware does exist. Also, many apps do send telemetry by default, though there are usually instructions to disable it.
      - flukus 8y ago
        Sure it exists, but it's not an infestation. Even then I'm not aware of it or telemetry enabled apps in any trusted sources like the debian repositories (if you're aware of any please let me know), they'll even disable it from organisations like Mozilla that don't care about privacy. The play store cannot reasonably be considered a trusted source. If your going to download stuff from random places, which is how most telemetry enabled apps end up on linux systems then no sandboxing will work anyway, it will simply be disabled as part of the installation process. It's not a technological problem, you can't fix it with technology.
gruez 8y ago
>Starting in Android Q, apps must have the READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE signature permission in order to access the device's non-resettable identifiers, which include both IMEI and serial number. While I welcome this improvement, I can't help but think that app developers will respond by refusing access to the app unless the user grants the permission. Both android and ios need to be able to "silently deny" permissions.
- ac29 8y ago
  I can't think of any issues in revoking app permissions on Android, going back to Android 4.something at least. I think google is carefully saying "non-resettable identifiers", because App developers will still be able to access the Google Advertising ID, for example, which is resettable. My guess is 99.9% or more of users never actually reset it, though. I just reset mine for the first time recently (Settings -> Google -> Ads -> Reset advertising ID).
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    App developers can't access that ID. The closest they can get is the ad-exchange id which resets automatically every 30 days.
    - lucb1e 8y ago
      So they just need to store the old one and poll it every time the app is opened or so, and if it changed, they know the old and new one? Not sure Apple allows this kind of thing, but changing it regularly, I'm not sure it helps much by itself.
- ahupp 8y ago
  IIRC, signature permission means that 3p apps can't request it at all. They have to be signed with the same key as the OS, so practically only your handset manufacturer can use it.
- JimDabell 8y ago
  > I can't help but think that app developers will respond by refusing access to the app unless the user grants the permission. Both android and ios need to be able to "silently deny" permissions. iOS doesn't need this because Apple rejects apps that demand access unnecessarily. > Apps must respect the user’s permission settings and not attempt to manipulate, trick, or force people to consent to unnecessary data access. For example, apps that include the ability to post photos to a social network must not also require microphone access before allowing the user to upload photos. Where possible, provide alternative solutions for users who don’t grant consent. For example, if a user declines to share Location, offer the ability to manually enter an address. — https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#privacy https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#pri...
dzonga 8y ago
Seems privacy has increased, in a way and maybe I can finally switch from iOS. Will try buy a $150 Pixel 1 on ebay and install AQ on it
- tcd 8y ago
  Has it? Does it afford me 'contextual' permissions, rather than an app just requesting contacts for no reason? Does it let me know _what_ data it's requesting (long/lat coordinates, state/county, country, continent?)? What about the data it's requesting about my contacts, does it tell me which contact's data was accessed, and what data that was (first/last name, DOB, email, phone number)? Does the app make a request to a server after getting that data, does it store it on a server? Are apps compliant with the GDPR, do they respond to privacy requests, such as what data they store, or whether they delete data when asked to do so? Everything you see about privacy is an illusion, designed to do the bare minimum to make people think Google respects your privacy. But there's a reason Facebook likes Android simply due to how much information it gives developers with or without permission. You can hope the user allows that location permission (accidentally just once is all it takes). Without actually detailing what information they want, why they want it, how they'll use it and how it'll be stored and processed and deleted (LOL) then no, privacy has not increased. And this isn't exclusive to Android, but operating systems and 'apps' as a whole.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    "privacy has not increased as much as you would prefer" and "privacy has not increased" are two distinct statements. You appear to be making the former, but asserting that it's the latter.
kuschku 8y ago
And with this, Android as an open system is dying yet again. It’s sad we won’t even have an option to give apps full filesystem access. At least make it optional.
- sgc 8y ago
  The filesystem issue is going to be a problem for me. I have an app that writes about 1000 images a day from user photographs which should certainly not be mixed into the general images pool! And I want to be able to browse my filesystem. It sounds like that's basically out without rooting now. Instead, I was waiting for an understanding that phones and tablets are becoming ever more general purpose devices, which means having a lot of niche applications which should have more control over their use of resources, including memory and cpu use. Notify, warn, make a lot of noise - but let the user decide if the app is making the right choices for their device, not the ideal device in the sky. It's not that hard to have minimum/low/standard/high/maximum use flags for cpu, ram, network, etc. And then make them actually mean something significant.
  - LadyNike 8y ago
    > The filesystem issue is going to be a problem for me. I have an app that writes about 1000 images a day from user photographs which should certainly not be mixed into the general images pool! The app doesn't need to contribute the photos to the shared media store. It can if it wants to allow other apps to also have access, but it can also write them to its own private directory. > And I want to be able to browse my filesystem. It sounds like that's basically out without rooting now. The scoped storage changes are something that app developers must handle, but you, as a user, will still be able to browse the entire SD card. (I'm a member of developer relations on Android and wrote a proof of concept file browser that works just fine on Android Q. :)
    - sgc 8y ago
      How does it work if I want to be able to browse that private directory with a file browser?
xhruso00 8y ago
This beta has nothing exciting and just shows that both iOS & Android copy the best ideas. e.g.: Sharing shortcuts - it looks very similar to iOS sharing sheet with AirDrop users around you.
ReptileMan 8y ago
Have you solved the timely update problem? This is the major issue since 2011...
mingabunga 8y ago
I hope with the wifi connectivity changes, we'll be able to connect wifi to IOT devices without losing the 3G/4G connection at the same time.
opayen 8y ago
They finally restricted access to clipboard (see https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/data-identifiers#clipboard-data https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/data-identifie...). I always thought it was insane that any app could just listen to everything that went to the clipboard, even while in the background and without any permission. I'm sure many people copy passwords, credit card numbers, bitcoin private keys, etc.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  I'm still of the opinion that apps with focus should not be able to read the clipboard by default. iOS allows this too, but this means that apps can (and do!) read stuff like passwords, links, and other stuff you've been interacting with passively.
  - Razengan 8y ago
    I have been highly concerned about this after I opened a certain iOS app, and was immediately greeted with a system alert saying "Pasting from Mac..." even though there was NO reason whatsoever for it to access the clipboard (it was basically the first-run splash screen.) Thanks to Apple's Continuity feature [0], you can seamlessly copy/paste across iPhones, iPads and Macs, and indeed it can be handy. But if my network (or something else) hadn't been laggy at that time, I would have never caught that app trying to obviously snoop my clipboard's contents. I'm sure many more apps do this and they must be exfiltrating it. And yes, I often copy/paste sensitive data to avoid retyping it, so this is practically CROSS-PROCESS, CROSS-DEVICE SPYWARE in an innocuous way that very few people would even think of, or should ever have to worry about. The solution is simple: Don't let any process read the clipboard unless the user explicitly chooses to paste. Apps that need automatic clipboard access to offer added convenience (like autofilling certain forms) should require explicit permission, just like we have for camera/microphone/etc., and preferably only while the app is in focus. After all, such "intent-based security" is the reasoning behind the existing macOS "PowerBox" [1] which lets apps access only the files that the user manually chooses in an open/save dialog. Extend it to the clipboard too. [0] https://support.apple.com/kb/ph25168 https://support.apple.com/kb/ph25168 [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Security/Conceptual/AppSandboxDesignGuide/AppSandboxInDepth/AppSandboxInDepth.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Se...
matchbok 8y ago
Do these new versions even matter at this point? We keep getting new ones while the last one barely gets past 10% adoption. Android is mess.
- viraptor 8y ago
  The last one is the one that was a "new version" last year. Now it's past 10% adoption. So yes, you pretty much explained that it matters. https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards Actually 8.x is at 21% and 7.x at 28%. That's half the people on the last 2 versions. Older ones will soon get replaced as those phones start dying.
  - matchbok 8y ago
    So, 15%? Doesn't seem to matter. The last 3 or 4 android versions really haven't changed much, except useless design updates that confuse users.
    - viraptor 8y ago
      That's a mix of subjective stuff (you don't like UI changes, I do), and simply missing things like the big platform change in 8.0 which actually speeds up the adoption/updates (project treble). Please don't troll.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Project Treble relies on OEMs to actually bother to deliver updates, sofar they have cared so much that Google is finally adding some kind of update clause to Google Play Services access contract.
        viraptor 8y ago
        A part of that dragging feet was that they had to port all their (imo unnecessary) "value add" every time. This approach from Google actually works from both ends: incentive - you have a portable/stable base, and enforcement - now that you have it, stop doing stupid things.
mlindner 8y ago
Another example of Android learning from Apple.
excalibur 8y ago
> Android Q Quiche?
makomk 8y ago
I think this basically kills a large chunk of the KDE Connect functionality I rely on. No more background clipboard access means no more clipboard sync, and closing off SD card access means it can no longer act as a wireless alternative to USB file transfer (which is terribly unreliable on Linux).
- knaik94 8y ago
  Are you saying they restricted SD card access further? Because I am able to use FolderSync to do wireless file transfer at very high speeds. I am not a developer or associated, http://www.tacit.dk/foldersync/faq/#how-can-i-access-external-sd-card-on-android-5-0-and-newer http://www.tacit.dk/foldersync/faq/#how-can-i-access-externa...
  - makomk 8y ago
    Yeah, the external storage permissions are going away altogether according to https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/scoped-storage https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/scoped-storage - apps will no longer be able to get access to them.
    - ggm 8y ago
      What is external storage for if the apps can't access it?
      - Y_Y 8y ago
        Android will soon be so large that the OS won't fit in the 16GB of internal memory most phones have and will use some of the external too.
      - makomk 8y ago
        They can still access their own private area within external storage, which is fine for apps that just want to store large amounts of their own data, and they can use it for photos, video and music. There's just not any kind of general access to it anymore.
foxfired 8y ago
I need one feature and one feature only: Control the apps internet connectivity. When your flashlight app needs a constant internet connection to function properly we have a problem. The article mentioned something about connectivity, but I read 3 times and I still don't know what it means.
- pisky 8y ago
  I use Netguard for this. Works well. https://www.netguard.me https://www.netguard.me No root required, open source etc.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    That's a good option, although unfortunately it prevents the concurrent use of VPNs.
- y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago
  My honor already does this: https://vgy.me/mSUFiV.jpg https://vgy.me/mSUFiV.jpg Is this feature only found on honor/huawei phones?
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Yes, that's Huawei-only.
mnm1 8y ago
What's the use case of allowing location access in the background for the user of the cellphone. I understand the use case for advertisers and other companies whose revenue model is based on spying and collecting data, but I can't imagine any application I'd be running on the background that would need location while it's in the background. Do people put map apps in the background? What other legitimate uses are there for location data?
- lovelearning 8y ago
  I used that approach in a custom app for a family to track a person with MCI in case they got lost. (MCI=Mild Cognitive Impairment - memory problems basically)
- JoshTriplett 8y ago
  > I can't imagine any application I'd be running on the background that would need location while it's in the background. Do people put map apps in the background? Many Uber and Lyft drivers run Waze in the foreground and the Uber/Lyft driver app in the background.
- anoncake 8y ago
  - Some people like to track their own movements - Automation - Location-based reminders Just three use cases that came to my mind immediately.
Zigurd 8y ago
"We could not enroll your device at this time. Please try again later." This after listing my eligible device.
cmroanirgo 8y ago
Is it just me, this seems to be dripping with marketing schtick? : rant on : > Android is right at the center of this innovation cycle > Android was designed with security and privacy at the center. [ Ok. I get we're reading about Android¡ I disagree completely about this last point - it was always about advertising] > One thing that's particularly sensitive is apps' access to location while the app is not in use (in the background). [No mention that, by default, apps can phone home... which is a far greater privacy concern imho] > If your app is in the background and needs to get the user's attention quickly -- such as for incoming calls or alarms -- you can use a high-priority notification and provide a full-screen intent. So now my phone is no longer a phone, but a high priority notification device? They still don't give us inbuilt firewall/ adblocker, and they seem to continue the trend of making & receiving calls more obtuse by allowing every aspect of my 'phone' bleep, vibrate or blink at me. : rant off :
m3kw9 8y ago
Basically this is iOS 12
socrateslee 8y ago
After upgraded my Pixel XL to Android Q, found weixin crashed.
ElijahLynn 8y ago
Was really hoping to see they brought back Smart NFC Unlock. No cigar.
bpye 8y ago
Installed this, seems to mostly work okay. Looks like they broke Go on Android for now though [1] - unfortunately Syncthing is written in Go. Amusingly this bug was posted (by a Googler) about 7 weeks ago. [1] - https://github.com/shadowsocks/v2ray-plugin-android/issues/6 https://github.com/shadowsocks/v2ray-plugin-android/issues/6
dusted 8y ago
Q as, Q from StarTrek? While I enjoyed the character on the screen, I'd rather not be bothered by a "real q"..
- IshKebab 8y ago
  No, Q as in the letter after P.
  - dusted 8y ago
    Nah, this is Google, Q will be the omnipotent one.
  - 0-_-0 8y ago
    whooosh!
    - IshKebab 8y ago
      Woosh what? He was making a not funny irrelevant comment about Q from Star Trek.
jdofaz 8y ago
Will it have a way to prevent sending my location to Google without having to disable Location Services?

229 points by skiman10 8y ago

Blog post isn't up yet, but you can get the factory images here: https://developer.android.com/preview/download https://developer.android.com/preview/download. Sign up for the OTA should be here: https://g.co/androidbeta https://g.co/androidbeta when Google decides to update everything.

el_duderino 8y ago
It's up now.

whalesalad 8y ago

That screenshot of the modal prompt re: device location is virtually identical to the iOS dialog. Not trying to start a flame war here just interesting to see the striking resemblance. Example: https://mackuba.eu/images/posts/ios11-location/ios11-always.png https://mackuba.eu/images/posts/ios11-location/ios11-always.... (taken from https://mackuba.eu/2017/07/13/changes-to-location-tracking-in-ios-11/ https://mackuba.eu/2017/07/13/changes-to-location-tracking-i...)

jsight 8y ago
I thought you were exaggerating until I went to look. That does look just like the notifications that I get on the ipad. I'm surprised to see them match it so closely, but I'm glad to see improvements in this area on Android anyway.
kllrnohj 8y ago
Good ideas have flowed in both directions - such as iOS's notification center having a "striking resemblance" to Android's notification shade.
joekrill 8y ago
It is pretty striking how similar the UI is starting to look compared to iOS. And I say that as someone largely on the Android side of the Android-iOS debate. Also add to that the shift recently to move navigation to the bottom of the screen in the form of tabs. I guess ultimately there's plenty of examples of this happening both ways, though.
caprese 8y ago
Convergent evolution occurs when independent traits evolve as a result of having to adapt to similar environments or ecological niches.
- blotter_paper 8y ago
  Other times an adaptation of one animal so radically changes the environment that other animals adapt similar traits because of it. When one poisonous insect becomes red and birds learn to avoid red insects, red is a useful color for other insects to be as well. Innovation is good, but copying good innovation isn't bad; variation let's us explore, convergence let's us carry experiences from one platform onto another. I like that the two dialogs look so similar, though I wish Google would copy Apple's text formatting a bit more closely, and I feel like Apple should copy the location marker at the top of Google's dialog.
jayd16 8y ago
Its a white dialog with blue clickable text. The text length makes standard blue buttons impossible. This is just what state of the art "developer ugly" looks like.
oDot 8y ago
Both of them are actually converging to look and behave like webOS 10 years ago
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  Makes sense in the case of Android. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat%C3%ADas_Duarte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat%C3%ADas_Duarte
fvjft 8y ago
This is shameful. I have no words. It's practically a verbatim copy. Of course, getting the font sizes wrong, because it's Android. But other than that, just shameful. It doesn't even look like Material design. I seriously hope they change it before release. It's like the engineer in charge of the feature couldn't get a hold of a designer and so had to make the design himself... so he just took if off his own phone.
bobthepanda 8y ago
I wish the text was bigger on the Android version, similar to how much more space it takes up on the Apple one. Boosting readability is important, and the font is a little small for my taste.
- whalesalad 8y ago
  Agree. This looks like the kind of UI that was designed in Photoshop or perhaps a device simulator and then never vetted on a real device by a real person. It's not great.
- jfyne 8y ago
  Most likely can be made a lot bigger using both font and display size settings in Android
andrepd 8y ago
It makes me beyond annoyed that google seems to insist on radically changing the design of their apps every 6 months, for no discernible reason, with no unifying theme or thread or underlying rationale.
- GordonS 8y ago
  You're not the only one. I got yet another update to Gmail on Android a couple of weeks ago - honestly, it looks familar... it's like they've changed it so many times it's back round to how it was at some point in the past! I really wish they'd just stop .
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Android's GMail update sucks for those that can't stand high values of white, it is like being at an interrogation room with a spotlight on the face.
    - GordonS 8y ago
      I agree - there really is a lot of white in the latest update! I'd much prefer a bit of colour to help delineate different sections of the UI, such as the search bar and buttons.
      - Mindwipe 8y ago
        So would everyone except Google's in house design team, which has lost the plot. There seems to be some suggestion this was done for the purposes of enabling dark mode, which has never made the slightest bit of sense tbh.
- whalesalad 8y ago
  This is the essence of Google. They’re too big to fail so they can pretty much do whatever they want. Kill huge apps (Reader, Picasa), major paradigm shifts in UI, abandoning projects, fragmented efforts... how many messenger platforms do they have again? Pretty much any other company would die from this kind of wheel spinning and frantic behavior, they’re fortunate to get away with it.
boznz 8y ago
Very Surprised if Apple don't have a patent for a modal box :-)
- taneq 8y ago
  They do, but you have to double-click to dismiss it because Amazon has a patent on single clicking.
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    They have a patent for single click buying. Not “single click” that I’m aware of...
keerthiko 8y ago
Convergence of UX for the same context and expectations is a Good Thing. This is symmetric to expecting cmd + X and cmd + Z to do the same thing on different OSs and apps. No reason for it to be considered a bad thing.
- iscrewyou 8y ago
  The design looks the same. The idea makes sense but the design is strikingly similar. I think that’s what OP was getting at.
Slippery_John 8y ago
The iOS one is still better IMO because they can/have (?) to say what they're using it for in the dialog.
stephencoyner 8y ago
iOS and Android design seems to be converging more and more lately. Starting with material 2, Google has decided to center align a log more elements on the screen (text, icons, etc). Google has also shifted to a lot more white and gray with blue used for actionable items. In both cases it seems like apple got it right the first time, Google tried to pioneer the opposite and has now gone back and copied Apple. Meanwhile a bunch of designers at Google have gotten promoted for their diligent work.
RandomNewGuy 8y ago
Looks like designers at Google are more used to iOS than to Android... That dialog has little to do with Material principles...
- pjmlp 8y ago
  To the point that the Material design files are only available in Sketch, screw Android designers that happen to use other platforms.

m52go 8y ago

I was just watching a video a couple minutes ago about changes to system navigation in Android Q [0]. Oddly, I don't see any mention of it in this blog post. Can someone explain how (1) switching buttons into gestures and (2) changing the recent apps screen from a list of all apps on 1 screen to a full screen for each app...how are these good ideas? What is the design philosophy for these changes? They seem like gargantuan steps back in ease-of-use and intuitive design. I'm looking forward to jumping to a Pine64 or Purism phone before I am compelled to use this mindless ripoff of stupid Apple interface design. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCM2SR5pDn4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCM2SR5pDn4

whalesalad 8y ago
I think you're going to be in for a big ol' frothy glass of reality check juice if you're thinking Purism is going to have better usability than Android or iOS...
- gattilorenz 8y ago
  > The back button is vestigial tech debt. Gestures are the future. I don't necessarily think that the back button will remain, but I think it SHOULD remain. Gestures are cool, but the back button is like the undo feature: it gives user a visible, clear button to correct a mistake or cancel an action. Gestures are not immediately visible/discoverable, so while for a tech savvy it might not be a problem, for the average consumer (think of your dad, or aunt, or grandpa) it is a usability regression.
  - whalesalad 8y ago
    Devils advocate: the iPhone has never had a physical back button and it's a wildly successful device with people across all walks of life and levels of technical experience. I think a lot of Android users feel this way but it is clear that Android is moving away from physical buttons. It's a crutch that Google is finally getting rid of.
    - 8y ago

pjmlp 8y ago

So, Vulkan is now compulsory, most likely given the way OEMs cared about supporting it and keeping up with Vulkan updates. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/vulkansupport.php#android_devices https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/vulkansupport.php#android_devices More sandboxing of Android APIs, permissions and introduction of roles. They added a C++ MIDI API, but searching for plugged devices can only be done at Java layer. Speaking of which, it is going to be the usual partial Java 8 variant, and Java 12 is going live next week.

kllrnohj 8y ago
> So, Vulkan is now compulsory There is nothing to suggest that Vulkan is now required. > Speaking of which, it is going to be the usual partial Java 8 variant, and Java 12 is going live next week. Java's version number has been hijacked to mean OpenJDK's runtime version & handful of non-core library updates that don't exist on Android anyway. It has vanishingly little to do with the actual language or core libraries these days. The only thing of interest at all between Java 9, 10, and 11 are var handles (compiler-only, no runtime support needed - should work fine on Android), and the Flow class. Which is unfortunately missing, yes, but not particularly significant. Might work better as an AndroidX addition anyway.
- Twirrim 8y ago
  > There is nothing to suggest that Vulkan is now required. From the article: "We're working together with our device manufacturer partners to make Vulkan 1.1 a requirement on all 64-bit devices running Android Q and higher, and a recommendation for all 32-bit devices."
  - kllrnohj 8y ago
    Which means it's not required as long as 32-bit devices are allowed to ship as well. It will be a large percentage, like GLES 3 is, but not required, like GLES 3 isn't.
    - desdiv 8y ago

onychomys 8y ago

Nice to see that the original Pixel and PixelXL will be getting Q. It's always struck me as weird that Google sells that line of phones ostensibly for people who care about their OSes more than normal, and then only offers a couple of years of new OSes on them. Maybe we're seeing them turn the corner on that.

petecox 8y ago
Despite launching with Nougat, Pixel 1 devices were the testbed for Project Treble. https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/05/18/current-google-pixelpixel-xl-will-support-project-treble-possibly-meaning-longer-support/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2017/05/18/current-google-pixe...

AdmiralAsshat 8y ago

> Android was designed with security and privacy at the center. Right. That's why ostensibly local apps can make unfettered connections to the internet without my having any knowledge or way of stopping it, right?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
skybrian 8y ago
This is relative to desktop where traditional apps don't even run in a sandbox and app permissions weren't a thing. A Linux app can not only create Internet connections, it can read and write all your personal files. (But we thought that was pretty secure since it didn't run as root.)
- c256 8y ago
  This feels almost obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
- flukus 8y ago
  Linux apps aren't infested with malware and tracking trojans though, if the threat doesn't exist then there's no reason to protect from it. With android collecting this sort of data is it's very reason for existence.
  - skybrian 8y ago
    We don't usually see widespread infections, but Linux malware does exist. Also, many apps do send telemetry by default, though there are usually instructions to disable it.
    - flukus 8y ago
      Sure it exists, but it's not an infestation. Even then I'm not aware of it or telemetry enabled apps in any trusted sources like the debian repositories (if you're aware of any please let me know), they'll even disable it from organisations like Mozilla that don't care about privacy. The play store cannot reasonably be considered a trusted source. If your going to download stuff from random places, which is how most telemetry enabled apps end up on linux systems then no sandboxing will work anyway, it will simply be disabled as part of the installation process. It's not a technological problem, you can't fix it with technology.

gruez 8y ago

>Starting in Android Q, apps must have the READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE signature permission in order to access the device's non-resettable identifiers, which include both IMEI and serial number. While I welcome this improvement, I can't help but think that app developers will respond by refusing access to the app unless the user grants the permission. Both android and ios need to be able to "silently deny" permissions.

ac29 8y ago
I can't think of any issues in revoking app permissions on Android, going back to Android 4.something at least. I think google is carefully saying "non-resettable identifiers", because App developers will still be able to access the Google Advertising ID, for example, which is resettable. My guess is 99.9% or more of users never actually reset it, though. I just reset mine for the first time recently (Settings -> Google -> Ads -> Reset advertising ID).
- londons_explore 8y ago
  App developers can't access that ID. The closest they can get is the ad-exchange id which resets automatically every 30 days.
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    So they just need to store the old one and poll it every time the app is opened or so, and if it changed, they know the old and new one? Not sure Apple allows this kind of thing, but changing it regularly, I'm not sure it helps much by itself.
ahupp 8y ago
IIRC, signature permission means that 3p apps can't request it at all. They have to be signed with the same key as the OS, so practically only your handset manufacturer can use it.
JimDabell 8y ago
> I can't help but think that app developers will respond by refusing access to the app unless the user grants the permission. Both android and ios need to be able to "silently deny" permissions. iOS doesn't need this because Apple rejects apps that demand access unnecessarily. > Apps must respect the user’s permission settings and not attempt to manipulate, trick, or force people to consent to unnecessary data access. For example, apps that include the ability to post photos to a social network must not also require microphone access before allowing the user to upload photos. Where possible, provide alternative solutions for users who don’t grant consent. For example, if a user declines to share Location, offer the ability to manually enter an address. — https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#privacy https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#pri...

dzonga 8y ago

Seems privacy has increased, in a way and maybe I can finally switch from iOS. Will try buy a $150 Pixel 1 on ebay and install AQ on it

tcd 8y ago
Has it? Does it afford me 'contextual' permissions, rather than an app just requesting contacts for no reason? Does it let me know _what_ data it's requesting (long/lat coordinates, state/county, country, continent?)? What about the data it's requesting about my contacts, does it tell me which contact's data was accessed, and what data that was (first/last name, DOB, email, phone number)? Does the app make a request to a server after getting that data, does it store it on a server? Are apps compliant with the GDPR, do they respond to privacy requests, such as what data they store, or whether they delete data when asked to do so? Everything you see about privacy is an illusion, designed to do the bare minimum to make people think Google respects your privacy. But there's a reason Facebook likes Android simply due to how much information it gives developers with or without permission. You can hope the user allows that location permission (accidentally just once is all it takes). Without actually detailing what information they want, why they want it, how they'll use it and how it'll be stored and processed and deleted (LOL) then no, privacy has not increased. And this isn't exclusive to Android, but operating systems and 'apps' as a whole.
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  "privacy has not increased as much as you would prefer" and "privacy has not increased" are two distinct statements. You appear to be making the former, but asserting that it's the latter.

kuschku 8y ago

And with this, Android as an open system is dying yet again. It’s sad we won’t even have an option to give apps full filesystem access. At least make it optional.

sgc 8y ago
The filesystem issue is going to be a problem for me. I have an app that writes about 1000 images a day from user photographs which should certainly not be mixed into the general images pool! And I want to be able to browse my filesystem. It sounds like that's basically out without rooting now. Instead, I was waiting for an understanding that phones and tablets are becoming ever more general purpose devices, which means having a lot of niche applications which should have more control over their use of resources, including memory and cpu use. Notify, warn, make a lot of noise - but let the user decide if the app is making the right choices for their device, not the ideal device in the sky. It's not that hard to have minimum/low/standard/high/maximum use flags for cpu, ram, network, etc. And then make them actually mean something significant.
- LadyNike 8y ago
  > The filesystem issue is going to be a problem for me. I have an app that writes about 1000 images a day from user photographs which should certainly not be mixed into the general images pool! The app doesn't need to contribute the photos to the shared media store. It can if it wants to allow other apps to also have access, but it can also write them to its own private directory. > And I want to be able to browse my filesystem. It sounds like that's basically out without rooting now. The scoped storage changes are something that app developers must handle, but you, as a user, will still be able to browse the entire SD card. (I'm a member of developer relations on Android and wrote a proof of concept file browser that works just fine on Android Q. :)
  - sgc 8y ago
    How does it work if I want to be able to browse that private directory with a file browser?

xhruso00 8y ago

This beta has nothing exciting and just shows that both iOS & Android copy the best ideas. e.g.: Sharing shortcuts - it looks very similar to iOS sharing sheet with AirDrop users around you.

ReptileMan 8y ago

Have you solved the timely update problem? This is the major issue since 2011...

mingabunga 8y ago

I hope with the wifi connectivity changes, we'll be able to connect wifi to IOT devices without losing the 3G/4G connection at the same time.

opayen 8y ago

They finally restricted access to clipboard (see https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/data-identifiers#clipboard-data https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/data-identifie...). I always thought it was insane that any app could just listen to everything that went to the clipboard, even while in the background and without any permission. I'm sure many people copy passwords, credit card numbers, bitcoin private keys, etc.

saagarjha 8y ago
I'm still of the opinion that apps with focus should not be able to read the clipboard by default. iOS allows this too, but this means that apps can (and do!) read stuff like passwords, links, and other stuff you've been interacting with passively.
- Razengan 8y ago
  I have been highly concerned about this after I opened a certain iOS app, and was immediately greeted with a system alert saying "Pasting from Mac..." even though there was NO reason whatsoever for it to access the clipboard (it was basically the first-run splash screen.) Thanks to Apple's Continuity feature [0], you can seamlessly copy/paste across iPhones, iPads and Macs, and indeed it can be handy. But if my network (or something else) hadn't been laggy at that time, I would have never caught that app trying to obviously snoop my clipboard's contents. I'm sure many more apps do this and they must be exfiltrating it. And yes, I often copy/paste sensitive data to avoid retyping it, so this is practically CROSS-PROCESS, CROSS-DEVICE SPYWARE in an innocuous way that very few people would even think of, or should ever have to worry about. The solution is simple: Don't let any process read the clipboard unless the user explicitly chooses to paste. Apps that need automatic clipboard access to offer added convenience (like autofilling certain forms) should require explicit permission, just like we have for camera/microphone/etc., and preferably only while the app is in focus. After all, such "intent-based security" is the reasoning behind the existing macOS "PowerBox" [1] which lets apps access only the files that the user manually chooses in an open/save dialog. Extend it to the clipboard too. [0] https://support.apple.com/kb/ph25168 https://support.apple.com/kb/ph25168 [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Security/Conceptual/AppSandboxDesignGuide/AppSandboxInDepth/AppSandboxInDepth.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Se...

matchbok 8y ago

Do these new versions even matter at this point? We keep getting new ones while the last one barely gets past 10% adoption. Android is mess.

viraptor 8y ago
The last one is the one that was a "new version" last year. Now it's past 10% adoption. So yes, you pretty much explained that it matters. https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards Actually 8.x is at 21% and 7.x at 28%. That's half the people on the last 2 versions. Older ones will soon get replaced as those phones start dying.
- matchbok 8y ago
  So, 15%? Doesn't seem to matter. The last 3 or 4 android versions really haven't changed much, except useless design updates that confuse users.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    That's a mix of subjective stuff (you don't like UI changes, I do), and simply missing things like the big platform change in 8.0 which actually speeds up the adoption/updates (project treble). Please don't troll.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Project Treble relies on OEMs to actually bother to deliver updates, sofar they have cared so much that Google is finally adding some kind of update clause to Google Play Services access contract.
      - viraptor 8y ago
        A part of that dragging feet was that they had to port all their (imo unnecessary) "value add" every time. This approach from Google actually works from both ends: incentive - you have a portable/stable base, and enforcement - now that you have it, stop doing stupid things.

mlindner 8y ago

Another example of Android learning from Apple.

excalibur 8y ago

> Android Q Quiche?

makomk 8y ago

I think this basically kills a large chunk of the KDE Connect functionality I rely on. No more background clipboard access means no more clipboard sync, and closing off SD card access means it can no longer act as a wireless alternative to USB file transfer (which is terribly unreliable on Linux).

knaik94 8y ago
Are you saying they restricted SD card access further? Because I am able to use FolderSync to do wireless file transfer at very high speeds. I am not a developer or associated, http://www.tacit.dk/foldersync/faq/#how-can-i-access-external-sd-card-on-android-5-0-and-newer http://www.tacit.dk/foldersync/faq/#how-can-i-access-externa...
- makomk 8y ago
  Yeah, the external storage permissions are going away altogether according to https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/scoped-storage https://developer.android.com/preview/privacy/scoped-storage - apps will no longer be able to get access to them.
  - ggm 8y ago
    What is external storage for if the apps can't access it?
    - Y_Y 8y ago
      Android will soon be so large that the OS won't fit in the 16GB of internal memory most phones have and will use some of the external too.
    - makomk 8y ago
      They can still access their own private area within external storage, which is fine for apps that just want to store large amounts of their own data, and they can use it for photos, video and music. There's just not any kind of general access to it anymore.

foxfired 8y ago

I need one feature and one feature only: Control the apps internet connectivity. When your flashlight app needs a constant internet connection to function properly we have a problem. The article mentioned something about connectivity, but I read 3 times and I still don't know what it means.

pisky 8y ago
I use Netguard for this. Works well. https://www.netguard.me https://www.netguard.me No root required, open source etc.
- icebraining 8y ago
  That's a good option, although unfortunately it prevents the concurrent use of VPNs.
y0ghur7_xxx 8y ago
My honor already does this: https://vgy.me/mSUFiV.jpg https://vgy.me/mSUFiV.jpg Is this feature only found on honor/huawei phones?
- icebraining 8y ago
  Yes, that's Huawei-only.

mnm1 8y ago

What's the use case of allowing location access in the background for the user of the cellphone. I understand the use case for advertisers and other companies whose revenue model is based on spying and collecting data, but I can't imagine any application I'd be running on the background that would need location while it's in the background. Do people put map apps in the background? What other legitimate uses are there for location data?

lovelearning 8y ago
I used that approach in a custom app for a family to track a person with MCI in case they got lost. (MCI=Mild Cognitive Impairment - memory problems basically)
JoshTriplett 8y ago
> I can't imagine any application I'd be running on the background that would need location while it's in the background. Do people put map apps in the background? Many Uber and Lyft drivers run Waze in the foreground and the Uber/Lyft driver app in the background.
anoncake 8y ago
- Some people like to track their own movements - Automation - Location-based reminders Just three use cases that came to my mind immediately.

Zigurd 8y ago

"We could not enroll your device at this time. Please try again later." This after listing my eligible device.

cmroanirgo 8y ago

Is it just me, this seems to be dripping with marketing schtick? : rant on : > Android is right at the center of this innovation cycle > Android was designed with security and privacy at the center. [ Ok. I get we're reading about Android¡ I disagree completely about this last point - it was always about advertising] > One thing that's particularly sensitive is apps' access to location while the app is not in use (in the background). [No mention that, by default, apps can phone home... which is a far greater privacy concern imho] > If your app is in the background and needs to get the user's attention quickly -- such as for incoming calls or alarms -- you can use a high-priority notification and provide a full-screen intent. So now my phone is no longer a phone, but a high priority notification device? They still don't give us inbuilt firewall/ adblocker, and they seem to continue the trend of making & receiving calls more obtuse by allowing every aspect of my 'phone' bleep, vibrate or blink at me. : rant off :

m3kw9 8y ago

Basically this is iOS 12

socrateslee 8y ago

After upgraded my Pixel XL to Android Q, found weixin crashed.

ElijahLynn 8y ago

Was really hoping to see they brought back Smart NFC Unlock. No cigar.

bpye 8y ago

Installed this, seems to mostly work okay. Looks like they broke Go on Android for now though [1] - unfortunately Syncthing is written in Go. Amusingly this bug was posted (by a Googler) about 7 weeks ago. [1] - https://github.com/shadowsocks/v2ray-plugin-android/issues/6 https://github.com/shadowsocks/v2ray-plugin-android/issues/6

dusted 8y ago

Q as, Q from StarTrek? While I enjoyed the character on the screen, I'd rather not be bothered by a "real q"..

IshKebab 8y ago
No, Q as in the letter after P.
- dusted 8y ago
  Nah, this is Google, Q will be the omnipotent one.
- 0-_-0 8y ago
  whooosh!
  - IshKebab 8y ago
    Woosh what? He was making a not funny irrelevant comment about Q from Star Trek.

jdofaz 8y ago

Will it have a way to prevent sending my location to Google without having to disable Location Services?