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Elon Musk Tried to Destroy a Tesla Whistleblower
- OldFatCactus 8y agoHopefully Musk faces charges for this
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoIn a world where high-paid Silicon Valley executives can grope women and get paid tens of millions of dollars in severance payouts for doing so, I wouldn't exactly bet on any billionaires going to jail any time soon. I've seen far too many stories where one could reasonably say "this is definitely obviously a crime, right?" and nothing happens anyways. Money is the world's cheat code.
- xiphias2 8y agoIt's money and position together. Elon is strategically important for the US at this point, putting him to jail would wipe out billions of dollars of the US stock market, and SpaceX may be part of the future of US defense.
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoI would argue that neither Tesla nor SpaceX will disappear if Elon Musk goes to jail. In fact, the argument could be made both companies would perform more reliably without him.
- i_call_solo 8y agoMusk is heavily involved in the engineering efforts at Tesla and SpaceX. Losing him would not be a good thing for these companies despite his public antics.
- navigatesol 8y ago>Musk is heavily involved in the engineering efforts at Tesla and SpaceX. Is there any evidence of this, outside of him personally claiming this to be the case?
- hxegon 8y agohttps://www.quora.com/Does-Elon-Musk-do-some-very-technical-work-code-design-etc-at-SpaceX https://www.quora.com/Does-Elon-Musk-do-some-very-technical-... I'm too lazy to track down more right now. I don't know of anyone claiming (with evidence) that he doesn't. In his biography there's interviews with people inside and out of spacex/tesla talking about it that are pretty convincing.
- navigatesol 8y agoThat thread has a quote from an interview, and then a bunch of random people saying he does. I already know the mythology surrounding his engineering credentials. But I think perpetuating it does a real disservice to the real engineers doing work on these products. Do people really think that a bright, "well read" physics undergraduate can lead the practical engineering work on rockets and cars? I find it hard to believe.
- _Microft 8y agoDo people really think that a bright, "well read" physics undergraduate can lead the practical engineering work on rockets and cars? Most people do not. Don't blame Musk for missing that memo. :P (By the way: the book Mindset by Carol Dweck might be an eye-opener...)
- ocdtrekkie 8y agoMy guess is this guy probably has more claim to "actually makes rockets" than Elon does: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/tom-mueller-spacex-cto-who-makes-elon-musks-rockets-fly.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/tom-mueller-spacex-cto-who-m... I'm sure Elon sticks himself into tons of meetings, and hence has a lot of knowledge about what's discussed. And I don't doubt that he sets the goals for the engineers to meet, makes aesthetic and design decisions like some of the interviews suggest. But I think the guys Mueller manages are the people who actually make Falcons fly.
- honestoHeminway 8y agoreliable exponential? No.
- xiphias2 8y agoCan you imagine any person iterating as fast as Elon, manufacturing in US, while the company is surviving? His management is extremely dangerous to the future of his competitors. The only car companies that are growing faster than Tesla are Chinese.
- mhermher 8y agoJeff Skilling probably thought the same.
- loceng 8y agoHas there been any evidence of wrongdoing, and not just claims being made?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- antiviral 8y agoThis should be getting alot more attention. Even if Musk gets away with these things right now, this article raises awareness of what’s truly going on, raising the likelihood that future victims will be much more believable, similar to the way the dam eventually burst with Uber.
- close04 8y agoHe gets away because people's attention span is short and they trust good PR and things that reinforce their opinions. So they will take the undeniably good stuff (SpaceX + Tesla successes), then assume everything else that's tacked onto them is also real, any other claim Musk makes on Twitter are real, and the bad press is just enemies and haters. Also his position and money make him more or less legally untouchable even if his image would be permanently tarnished. This goes for anyone in his position whether they have his good PR or not. Money is indeed a superpower. Just ask Batman. Edit. Funny how all my comments received the same number of downvotes at almost the same time.
- RivieraKid 8y agoIt's really frustrating how many people don't see through this narcissistic double-faced CEO.
- close04 8y agoWe should really learn not to bother. I see there's a flood of downvotes/flagging on any comment presenting Musk in a bad light in any way. Evidence be damned.
- SpicyLemonZest 8y agoI don’t understand what the story here is supposed to be. By Tripp’s own account, he did gather private information, the information did not itself prove wrongdoing, and he did leak it to the press because he wanted to make Tesla look bad.
- drugme 8y agoI don’t understand what the story here is supposed to be. Did you catch the parts about Tesla harassing Tripp in a whole bunch of outlandish and basically thuggish ways in response -- ranging from a bogus $167m lawsuit up to apparently lying to the local police about him planning a mass shooting? That's what the story was about.
- SpicyLemonZest 8y agoThe article certainly makes those claims. But Bloomberg doesn’t seem to have any evidence of those things, beyond Tripp’s raw assertion that his friends didn’t make the call and he didn’t do what the lawsuit says. With no corroboration, why should we believe him over Tesla at this point?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- drugme 8y agoWith no corroboration, why should we believe him over Tesla at this point? Occam's Razor (and Tesla/Musks's record of erratic and vindictive behavior in other contexts) should provide ample basis for making that call.
- memling 8y ago> Occam's Razor This seems like an objectively bad idea to me. I'm not a Tesla or Musk fan, and it seems plausible he could try to destroy a whistleblower. Even so, "innocent until proven guilty" is the better standard. Occam's Razor is greatly influenced by our priors.
- rebelwebmaster 8y agoNot saying the article is or isn't true, but how credible is Bloomberg as a news outlet these days after the SuperMicro story?
- drugme 8y agoQuite credible actually. Edit (now that the above post has been edited): I agree that the lack of an unequivocal follow-up to the SuperMicro story -- that is saying neither "we admit we screwed up" or "we stand by the main points of our original story" or even "we need more time to look into this pls" -- is quite troubling. Still, you have to look at their broader track record, compare them to other outlets in their weight class (nearly all of which, like the NYT in particular, have indulged in many more, and far greater follies). That and the fact that what they're reporting in this particular case is consistent with what we know to expect from Tesla/Musk after various other incidents.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- tdhz77 8y agoI agree, very credible.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoWithout a retraction they have zero credibility.
- drugme 8y agoFine for you, but I'm not a black-or-white person. I would say their credibility stands at "significantly compromised", which is damning enough.
- praneshp 8y agoI have personally downgraded them to about TechCrunch level, but I haven't noticed a lot of questioning on HN.
- thinkcomp 8y agoTesla, Inc. v. Tripp Nevada District Court, Case No. 3:18-cv-00296-LRH-CBC https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/3br5tkwuj/nevada-district-court/tesla-inc-v-tripp/ https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/3br5tkwuj/nevada-district-...
- JdeBP 8y agoThe fact that this publishes conference telephone numbers, complete with access code and security code, and that none of these numbers changes over a period of 6 months, is somewhat worrying.
- InclinedPlane 8y agoIf you can't hold your heroes to a reasonable standard of behavior and ethics then you yourself have no standard of behavior or ethics worth a damn.
- samirillian 8y agoAs a person who really wanted Musk to be an exception to the rule of shitty billionaires, this story really is the last nail in the coffin. Way too much moral casuistry you'd have to go through to justify or cast doubt on all of these insane stories.
- burtonator 8y agoI wonder if the issue is that most people are just shitty but society acts as a check. When you're above societies rules you can act and do anything you want.
- r_smart 8y agoPossibly. I'd say there are a lot of people who are lacking in the principles / integrity department, but I also think Musk tends to stand out among his peers. He's not normal, even for that group of people.
- loa-in-backup 8y agoThat reminds me of one point: I highly respect that Elon Musk doesn't wall himself off from the mind of the internet (aka the populace). It's something you won't see other CEOs do, unless it's a PR stunt meant to achieve some positive PR statistics.
- jsight 8y agoYeah, I think a lot of people here are just naive to how much dirty dealing goes on in the world. This stuff is just more public. Musk was never some wonderful person that should have been looked up to for his own merit. But I generally don't pick cars based on how much we like or dislike their CEO, and I suspect that most others don't either.
- nwah1 8y agoBillionaires are not by any means a random sample of humanity, particularly for the self-made billionaires. They are among the most insanely ambitious or the most insanely risk-loving. This makes them go to much greater lengths to protect their empires than most of us would, if plunked into such a position. I think the power and fame has also changed Musk quite a lot, and perhaps something about his lifestyle and substance consumption has changed, because he is acting different than he had even three or four years ago... which was still well into the era of him being a billionaire.
- RivieraKid 8y agoElon Musk is a pathological liar who goes full evil against people who dare to question him. Remember the British diver Unsworth. Or how tried to trigger a short squeeze by lying on Twitter multiple times. He called a respected non-profit media organization an extremist organization" after they did a piece critical of Tesla.
- lawlessone 8y agoin 2016 he shared an article that suggested a rocket explosion was sabotage. Though he qualified that by saying it isn't true.
- loceng 8y agoI read a response of his saying that sabotage wasn't ruled out, when someone first asked him about the rocket explosion before they had ruled it out. Do you have a reference/quote of him saying outright he thought it was sabotage?
- rchaud 8y ago"Later that day, Tripp heard from the sheriff’s department in Storey County, Nev. Tesla’s security department had passed a tip to police. An anonymous caller had contacted the company to say Tripp was planning a mass shooting at the Gigafactory." Think of how this could have played out under different circumstances. We've already had numerous "swatting" incidents where innocent bystanders were hurt or killed. The more I see Musk doing stupid pseudo-celebrity stuff like appearing on a kiddy Youtube channel to "review memes", the more I think he's eventually going to go the swatting route one day. He's extremely thin-skinned and responds on Twitter to even the slightest perceived slight.
- close04 8y agoPerhaps the whole point was making sure that side of the story never gets told to prevent any more reputational damage. Since Musk was personally informed that Tripp threatened to shoot people in the factory you'd expect some cooperation with the authorities. Instead the investigation was shut down when Tesla declined to make any possible witness available. As a singular incident it wouldn't garner to much attention but Tripp's account is adding to the pile already. Edit. Funny how all my comments received the same number of downvotes at almost the same time.
- joekrill 8y agoI don't understand how we're jumping to the conclusion that Musk is responsible for this. No one seems to be claiming the "anonymous call" was made up, as far as I can tell. For all we know Tripp made the call himself to make himself look like more a victim. It's no less plausible than suggesting Musk made the call himself, or had someone make it on his behalf.
- DiabloD3 8y agoWhat I don't understand is why Bloomberg is not required to publish that they have any financial interest in Tesla. Bloomberg seems to only publish negative news about Tesla, and clearly has a bias, as if they hold or represent someone that holds a large short position. The story published by Bloomberg does not actually cite any sources, only what is already publicly known and what Tripp has personally claimed; and seems to just run entirely on emotions, not facts. The whistleblower did, indeed, blow the whistle, and this seems to be one of only two provable and externally verifiable fact in the entire story (the other one being he once worked there and was fired from there; even the internal investigation at Tesla over Tripp's actions, according to that story, just seems to be Tripp's claims to such). There is no proof that Tesla invented the shooter story, and it is also at least as equally possible that someone outside of Tesla saw a chance to throw a spanner in the works and take advantage of the situation. It is also just as equally possible that Tripp had expressed feelings of shooting up the place, but lacked the materials, know how, or actual willpower to achieve the act, and told someone they intended to perform the act. If law enforcement believes that Elon, or someone from his company, made false claims to suppress Tripp's speech, then charges should be pressed. A quick Google tells me no charges have been pressed, and it does not seem likely charges will ever be pressed. I know some people just have an eternal hateboner for Elon's style as CEO and the way he personally conducts himself as a human being, but the only thing I care about is facts, not feelings. This entire story is just summed up as "whistleblower ex-employee claims Tesla called cops on possible revenge shooting after being fired for violating employment contract; Tesla released statement claiming that they believed it was a credible threat and no shooting ultimately occurred." What I said in quotes, obviously, does not sell newspapers and is not sensational enough to even warrant a second glance from a reader.
- AndrewBissell 8y agoThis is absolute nonsense. Tom Randall, the Bloomberg reporter who created the Model 3 VIN tracker, is one of the most notorious pro-Tesla hacks on the beat. He pumped the NHTSA "Autopilot is 40% safer" nonsense statistic and has done nothing to correct the record after the analysis was shown to be horrendously flawed. He routinely writes articles and Twitter threads which are nothing more than regurgitations of Musk talking points.
- peteradio 8y agoSuper cool that companies just intercept texts no big deal totally cool, must have been in the terms I signed.
- zmarty 8y agoBloomberg conveniently left out the reason why "Tripp has since changed lawyers". It's because he published on Twitter a trove of confidential internal Tesla documents. Once he did that his lawyer knew they had no case anymore. Tripp only deleted the documents after his lawyer was able to get in touch with him. This showed that he did in fact access internal Tesla systems and he did in fact exfiltrate this information. But somehow Bloomberg paints Tesla in a negative light, as they always do. This is what's left of the fallout: "B advised that the Tweets by Mr. Tripp yesterday were issued by him on his own accord. Mr. Tripp has clearly been impacted emotionally by what $TSLA has done to him.He is very concerned about being gagged & wants to protect the public, more than his own personal interest. ++" https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/1030138369840500736 https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/103013836984050073... "It is accurate that we no longer rep M.Tripp in any matter.Nor do we have a need for any connection whatsoever with his attys in his Nev civil action.There wont be further comment on this.We still rep K.Hansen with re to his SEC submission & do have confidence in his submission" https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/1072952816703102976 https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/107295281670310297... "Also Mr. Tripp's Twitter account WAS NOT suspended/removed by twitter this AM. He himself voluntarily terminated his twitter account on advice of myself, so that there will not b any more confusion re if he has published anything or not. There is enough confusion re $TSLA already" https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/1030139433276846081 https://twitter.com/StuartMeissner/status/103013943327684608...
- ucha 8y agoHow do you know what happened between Tripp and his lawyer?
- zmarty 8y agoIt was all on Twitter between them.
- AndrewBissell 8y agoAll anyone knows is that Tripp's lawyer asked him to take the posts down, and sometime later stopped representing him in the case. The rest is you trying to connect dots to assassinate Tripp's character.
- cronix 8y agoTesla keeps files of employees "tattoos/identifying marks"?? Is that a real image from Tesla (first main image)?
- ceejayoz 8y agoThe caption indicates it's real, and I'd imagine listing key identifying characteristics is quite standard for a security department's "don't let this disgruntled employee in" notices.
- graycrow 8y agoI don't appreciate the Bloomberg's constant push to "move markets". Especially their negative approach to TSLA.
- Animats 8y agoWhat should stockholders do when their CEO is a druggie?
- rum3 8y agoSmoking a joint makes someone a druggie?
- darkpuma 8y agohttp://fortune.com/2018/08/17/elon-musk-ambien-tweeting-nyt/ http://fortune.com/2018/08/17/elon-musk-ambien-tweeting-nyt/ https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcoholism-treatment/mixing-ambien https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcoholism-treatment/mi... >Physical Risks and Side Effects of Combining Alcohol and Ambien >When mixed together, Ambien and alcohol can enhance each other’s intoxicating effects. The following effects may be felt: [...] Confusion, Difficulty concentrating, Impaired cognition, Impaired judgment [...]
- mg794613 8y agoI'm not American and so not familiar with the laws. But can someone please contradict me on the fact that money equals liberty in the USA? Or are all these things that Elon do legal when you are poor too?
- mg794613 8y agoI dont get the anonymous down votes. Please argument becaue I am serious. Is it because it is very clear and apparent and I ask a stupid question? Or is it because we dont want to talk about it? Confused here.
- protomyth 8y agoTo Antinoro, one of the strangest parts of the situation was that after he told the company the threat was false, it asked him to put out a press release hyping it. He declined, but Tesla publicized the incident anyway. Antinoro says he’s told his force not to bother investigating crimes at the Gigafactory unless Tesla starts cooperating. Big business, he’s decided, is its own strange world. “Standard Oil was probably as weird as Elon Musk,” he says. Yep, this is every small town sheriff dealing with someone they believe to be a crackpot. One shouldn't play games with law enforcement.
- shkkmo 8y agoUmm... shouldn't the sheriff be fired for this? Investigating crimes is his job, corporate recalcitrance is not an excuse for not trying to protect that corporation's employees.
- protomyth 8y agoLike a lot of things, its a matter of resource allocation. Asking a sheriff to do a press release that's a lie lessens the credibility of the source. Having a company ask you to use your resources to "investigating crimes at the Gigafactory" without Tesla's honest cooperation is a waste of those resources and could get someone else killed while his people chase their tails. It is an extremely reasonable judgement call on the sheriff's part, and he should be commended for not bowing to the pressure of a big company over his office's integrity and the rest of the citizens he is responsible for.
- shkkmo 8y agoNot prioritizing the investigation of complaints filed by Tesla when they refuse to cooperate and not issuing press releases on command is commendable. Publicly announcing that no crimes at the Gigafactory will be investigated seems like dereliction of duty and abandoning the tax paying workers of Tesla to a potentially unsafe environment.
- 8y ago
- trpc 8y agoElon Musk is genius at looking like a genius, but he is anything but.
- dagoat 8y ago"You have what’s coming to you for the lies you have told to the public and investors" For a hit piece on Musk, I don't think that's the most flattering quote for the victim in this story.
- AndrewBissell 8y agoTripp's courage is actually quite remarkable and admirable, as represented by that quote in particular.
- dagoat 8y agoJust glancing at your previous comments on HN (the most recent 2 pages of which are all Musk/Tesla related), it appears you are not a Musk fan. So I take this comment with a grain of salt.
- mhermher 8y agoYou're in a burning house and people are shouting at you to get out, and your response is "you sure talk about this fire a lot, I'm gonna take your advice with a grain of salt."
- rum3 8y agoTripp is a sociopath who earned a bunch of money for spreading information that put Tesla in a bad light. He is a good liar and a good actor and called in the threat himself to the police using a burner phone.
- kadendogthing 8y agoThese articles need to be written in the manner they usually are because of the juxtaposition of who Musk presents himself as and who he actually is. Musk in practice isn't a scientist or engineer. He has never built anything in a professional setting. He has discovered nothing. He belongs to the business class. In our society we give the business class a lot of privilege, power, and general leeway. Most of it quite frankly undeserved. It shouldn't be a surprise that yet again, without reasonable channels about who is "successful" and why, we end up with a class of people filled with lackluster individuals. Musk being the current shining example; a person who apparently isn't smart enough to stop himself from acting foolish or unethical in any setting. He's played games with the companies finances, engaged in deplorable behavior, and is just a generally unsavory person. SpaceX and Tesla do not need Musk. They never have. No company or society needs people like Musk. Do not let the cult of personality and his myths lend any amount of credence to his efficacy as a CEO or how impactful he actually is as a person. Kick him out and let him fade away.
- ddebernardy 8y agoIn other news, the EU just issued a directive aimed at protecting whistleblowers: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-protects-whistleblowers-with-new-directive/a-47865249 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-protects-whistleblowers-with-new-di...
- sweden 8y agoI usually like Bloomberg, it's one of my favorite news sources but this article seems way off. They begin by talking about Martin Tripp's story (without any real details of what exactly happened), then they move to some random security guard with claims of sex and drugs in the factory, then they jump back to Tripp's story again and it takes a while for the article to get to the real point of Tripp's story which is: > "While Gouthro was trying to address the sex, drugs, and raucous disorganization, Tripp decided to go public. He had access to Tesla’s internal production database and dug into it to figure out just how much material was being wasted. He decided to go to Lopez, who’d written about Tesla for Business Insider, emailing and texting her numbers showing wasted material and pictures of battery parts that he said could catch fire. > Tripp hoped that when Lopez’s story came out, Tesla would be forced to make the changes he’d suggested." So he actually leaked information. I'm not a Tesla defender but it feels like Bloomberg is trying really hard to portrait Tesla in the worst possible picture here.
- jakobegger 8y ago> So he actually leaked information. Well, that's what a whistleblower does, isn't it? How would a whistleblower reveal that a company is doing questionable things without leaking information?
- erikpukinskis 8y agoTake it to law enforcement.
- koiz 8y agoWait we're trusting bloomberg all of a sudden?
- mlindner 8y agoTripp wasn't a whistleblower.
- mcguire 8y agoIs there a lesson here somewhere? Between Musk, Trump, and everything else I read, it seems like public insanity is a winning strategy.
- vbuwivbiu 8y agoI'm going to separate Musk from the other asshole billionairs, for now, because I truely think there's a higher purpose here that his companies are helping bring about. I think his heart's in the right place too. Something happens to people when they become that rich and are surrounded by sycophants. I wish he had respect for his staff and treated them well, same with Bezos but Tesla is more useful to the world than Amazon.
- iamdbtoo 8y ago"I think his heart's in the right place too." Trying to ruin someone's life is having your heart in the right place?
- vbuwivbiu 8y agoahem...apart from that...I was referring to the higher-purpose of accelerating the much-needed transition to electric vehicles - it's kind of obvious that was my meaning from the context - I'm saying, yes this is shitty, but look at the bigger picture.
- yingw787 8y agoIf you haven't seen this Twitter thread, it is a good read. Tune your credibility factor to maybe 0.6-0.8 before diving in. https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939621636661248 https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939621636661248
- jaimex2 8y agoHe is not a whistleblower. Shame on Bloomberg for tainting the word. And he destryoed himself, any company would have thrown the book at any employee who did what he did. He purposely leaked negative and false information of no material consequence to Linet Lopez, one of the top FUD reporters on Tesla at the time. Look up her articles over 2014 - 2017. Her full time job at the time was to trash the Tesla brand. The "I'm not smart enough to sabotage assembly systems" remark was also proven false. His github and stackoverflow accounts were found and show his as a capable coder who would have had no trouble at all modifying the production systems he sabotaged. He very quickly deleted both as soon as this came but the posts still exist today. His trial is ongoing: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/7244147/tesla-inc-v-tripp/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/7244147/tesla-inc-v-tri... I suspect this article will not age well. Either way it will serve its purpose as a hit piece before Model Y announcement.
- choppaface 8y agoIn what way is what he leaked “false”? Are the Tesla documents and VINS false? Isn’t Tesla’s report to the police objectively more false? Should we really allow Tesla to get away clean after their report to the police while Jessie Smollett faces felonies?
- jaimex2 8y agoStating Tesla lied about production numbers. Stating Tesla shipped battery packs with punctured cells. Stating he does not know how to code to sabotage assembly line. Stating the waste rate at Gigafactory was abnormally high. Stating he didnt try to frame a fellow employee. The case will reveal more I'm sure, these are not hard things to prove.
- imranq 8y agoThis article is so one sided that it feels like Bloomberg really has it out for Musk. There’s no proof that Musk did this, even though I’m open to the possibility.
- zaptheimpaler 8y agoThis should be much bigger than an SEC problem. Spreading rumours Tripp is homicidal, or secretly surveilling texts & emails without his knowledge - both alone could be prosecuted as criminal charges. Instead the absolute worst that will happen to Musk or anyone involved is being thrown out of Tesla. The sheriff "says he’s told his force not to bother investigating crimes at the Gigafactory unless Tesla starts cooperating." Remember folks, if you wanna be a criminal, start a company first. That way, your crimes become the companies crimes and your jail time becomes a fine! Thats the American Way.
- flippinburgers 8y agoThere is such a tremendous amount of dislike for Elon in this thread. I just don't understand. Nobody here holds a candle to his accomplishments.
- choppaface 8y agoWell, nobody here holds a candle to Nero either.
- netphobee 8y agoYour username checks out, at least.
- andenag 8y agohttp://www.landmarkhospitals.net/ http://www.landmarkhospitals.net/