10 ms·

It would be ironic if the lack of 737-MAX category for reports is why these reports never made it to the people who needed to see them, which caused the issue t

It would be ironic if the lack of 737-MAX category for reports is why these reports never made it to the people who needed to see them, which caused the issue to go unnoticed.

azernik 8y ago
Yet another way in which Boeing's marketing/regulatory insistence that the MAX was the same type as the 737 caused safety problems.
dpwm 8y ago
1555013 is pretty damning in telling how the airlines treated the MAX as the same type as the 737-800: "I had my first flight on the Max [to] ZZZ1. We found out we were scheduled to fly the aircraft on the way to the airport in the limo. We had a little time [to] review the essentials in the car. Otherwise we would have walked onto the plane cold.My post flight evaluation is that we lacked the knowledge to operate the aircraft in all weather and aircraft states safely. The instrumentation is completely different - My scan was degraded, slow and labored having had no experience w/ the new ND (Navigation Display) and ADI (Attitude Director Indicator) presentations/format or functions (manipulation between the screens and systems pages were not provided in training materials. If they were, I had no recollection of that material). We were unable to navigate to systems pages and lacked the knowledge of what systems information was available to us in the different phases of flight. Our weather radar competency was inadequate to safely navigate significant weather on that dark and stormy night. These are just a few issues that were not addressed in our training. I recommend the following to help crews w/ their introductory flight on the Max:Email notification the day before the flight (the email should include: Links - Training Video, PSOB and QRG and all relevant updates/FAQ's)SME (Subject Matter Expert) Observer - the role of the SME is to introduce systems navigation, display management, answer general questions and provide standardized best practices to the next generation aircraft.Additionally, the SME will collect de-identified data to provide to the training department for analysis and dissemination to the line pilots regarding FAQs and know systems differences as well best practices in fly the new model aircraft." [EDIT] Fixed ACN Number
- jonodubs 8y ago
  wow i feel nervous enough having to drive someone else's car without having a quick look at the different setup.
- tuna-piano 8y ago
  Wow. That's the same type of training material we would get when I worked at a coffee shop (large chain) and we came out with a new drink. Maybe even less - At the coffee shop we had to do a test with the manager for them to see that we could make the new drink successfully to standard.
- fl0wenol 8y ago
  If you want an RCA of the last two crashes in 737 MAX's, please see the parent. Ridiculous gyrations to avoid new aircraft regulations creates dangerous scenarios for pilots and passengers.
- kernelPan1c 8y ago
  Is this the right #? 1517486 points to something about a tug crew error. https://titan-server.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSPublicQueryWizard/QueryWizard_Display.aspx?server=ASRSO https://titan-server.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSPublicQueryWizard/Quer...
  - dpwm 8y ago
    No – it should have been 1555013. Must have had the wrong number in the clipboard.
- sn41 8y ago
  This is I think what is very very close to the truth. Some pilots are trained on the MAX, but later, untrained pilots are arbitrarily assigned to these planes. I am not sure that even emails help - with the amount of newsletters, and ad mails we receive, this email might be missed, or even when read, its importance might be missed.
- varenc 8y ago
  Wow... I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the 737-Max had just been given an entirely new model name like "738". I'd assume that when the 777's came out even pilots with experience on the 767 and other Boeing planes were still given ample training beforehand. The minor difference in the Max's model name disguises the seemingly large difference in their operation.

It would be ironic if the lack of 737-MAX category for reports is why these reports never made it to the people who needed to see them, which caused the issue to go unnoticed.

azernik 8y ago

Yet another way in which Boeing's marketing/regulatory insistence that the MAX was the same type as the 737 caused safety problems.

dpwm 8y ago

1555013 is pretty damning in telling how the airlines treated the MAX as the same type as the 737-800: "I had my first flight on the Max [to] ZZZ1. We found out we were scheduled to fly the aircraft on the way to the airport in the limo. We had a little time [to] review the essentials in the car. Otherwise we would have walked onto the plane cold.My post flight evaluation is that we lacked the knowledge to operate the aircraft in all weather and aircraft states safely. The instrumentation is completely different - My scan was degraded, slow and labored having had no experience w/ the new ND (Navigation Display) and ADI (Attitude Director Indicator) presentations/format or functions (manipulation between the screens and systems pages were not provided in training materials. If they were, I had no recollection of that material). We were unable to navigate to systems pages and lacked the knowledge of what systems information was available to us in the different phases of flight. Our weather radar competency was inadequate to safely navigate significant weather on that dark and stormy night. These are just a few issues that were not addressed in our training. I recommend the following to help crews w/ their introductory flight on the Max:Email notification the day before the flight (the email should include: Links - Training Video, PSOB and QRG and all relevant updates/FAQ's)SME (Subject Matter Expert) Observer - the role of the SME is to introduce systems navigation, display management, answer general questions and provide standardized best practices to the next generation aircraft.Additionally, the SME will collect de-identified data to provide to the training department for analysis and dissemination to the line pilots regarding FAQs and know systems differences as well best practices in fly the new model aircraft." [EDIT] Fixed ACN Number

jonodubs 8y ago
wow i feel nervous enough having to drive someone else's car without having a quick look at the different setup.
tuna-piano 8y ago
Wow. That's the same type of training material we would get when I worked at a coffee shop (large chain) and we came out with a new drink. Maybe even less - At the coffee shop we had to do a test with the manager for them to see that we could make the new drink successfully to standard.
fl0wenol 8y ago
If you want an RCA of the last two crashes in 737 MAX's, please see the parent. Ridiculous gyrations to avoid new aircraft regulations creates dangerous scenarios for pilots and passengers.
kernelPan1c 8y ago
Is this the right #? 1517486 points to something about a tug crew error. https://titan-server.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSPublicQueryWizard/QueryWizard_Display.aspx?server=ASRSO https://titan-server.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSPublicQueryWizard/Quer...
- dpwm 8y ago
  No – it should have been 1555013. Must have had the wrong number in the clipboard.
sn41 8y ago
This is I think what is very very close to the truth. Some pilots are trained on the MAX, but later, untrained pilots are arbitrarily assigned to these planes. I am not sure that even emails help - with the amount of newsletters, and ad mails we receive, this email might be missed, or even when read, its importance might be missed.
varenc 8y ago
Wow... I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if the 737-Max had just been given an entirely new model name like "738". I'd assume that when the 777's came out even pilots with experience on the 767 and other Boeing planes were still given ample training beforehand. The minor difference in the Max's model name disguises the seemingly large difference in their operation.