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Lambda School (YC S17) now pays eligible students $2k/month
- pmoriarty 8y ago"Upon completion of the nine month program students will be required to pay 10% of their salary for 5 years."
- austenallred 8y agoYes, that covers the price of tuition and repayment of the $18,000 Lambda School gives out in stipends, as well as cost of capital and risk (you only pay back if you’re making more than $50k/yr, otherwise you pay $0).
- tylerhou 8y agoIf I make $50,001, would I have to pay back the full 10%? Or is there some sort of gradient?
- austenallred 8y agoYes, you’d pay $5k/yr. In fact you might just want to ask for a raise to $55k and be net ahead because that’s not a great software engineering salary.
- laurencerowe 8y agoBeing net ahead at $55K suggests the repayment is tax deductible. Is that the case?
- austenallred 8y agoNo, that’s an oversimplification on my part to not complicate things, you’re right it would need to net higher.
- immichaelwang 8y agoHow does taxes factor in with Lambda school? Are they taking pre or post tax income?
- austenallred 8y agoYou pay on a percentage of pre-tax income.
- notyourday 8y agoWowza. People are gambling on tax rates of every level?!
- jedberg 8y agoYou may be able to deduct the payments as either an education expense or an unreimbursed job expense, but I haven't dug into the tax code to find out for sure. I'll be the LS people know though. :)
- CapnCrunchie 8y agoUnfortunately you can't deduct the payments. There is some potential legislation around that, but it hasn't been pushed through yet.
- austenallred 8y agoThis is accurate.
- patio11 8y agoThis is a far, far better deal than the one that I got for university (CS at a major US research institution, class of 2004), which involved a sticker price of about $140k, a work study assignment unjamming printers to justify ~$2k of wages per semester to cover (barely) the meal plan, and ~$X0k of non-dischargeable debt which started ticking the day I graduated, despite the fact that I was earning salaryman wages (~$30k) for the first 6 years of my career. Lambda School is quite possibly the most impressive startup I'm presently aware of. They are going to hit tertiary education like a freight train.
- zachruss92 8y agoI couldn’t agree more. The traditional education system is broken for training software engineers in my opinion. I thankfully dropped out my freshman year, but some of my classmates were literally not capable of using Git (branching & resolving merge conflicts) for their senior capstone projects. Given almost every company uses Git all day every day how is a $250k education helping prepare them for working in the real world? I love that programs like Udacity (and likely Lambda School as well) teaches Git(hub) as a 101 level course and use traditional workflows to submit, critique, and grade code. I do, however, still think traditional universities still have a place, especially when it comes to research. I’m referring to things like AI/ML.
- kasey_junk 8y agoUnder no circumstances would I be happy if my degree program taught me how to use git. I can’t think of a single skill more stupid to learn in university. My degree came a lot cheaper than the modern ones but if I got a similar experience now as then I wouldn’t feel cheated. My undergraduate provided opportunities to program lisps & assembly & write published articles on data structures & I literally went to the local state school.
- mikekchar 8y agoJust because I like telling this story: My university taught me every sorting algorithm known to man (or at least it felt like it at the time). After graduating, I traveled for a bit in the UK and got a job at a travel tour company doing odd jobs. One day the finance department asked me to sort a room full of records. Normally it took them 2 weeks to do the work. "Right! If there is one thing I know how to do, it's sorting", I though. Finished the job in half a day (shell sort -- which sadly was the only one I could actually remember...) They thought I was a freaking genius :-) Who says you'll never use this stuff?
- austenallred 8y agoHey, co-founder of Lambda School here. We launched our online CS academy with no upfront tuition almost two years ago. Now with thousands of students enrolled and hundreds already employed and paying back we wanted to take the next step and open up access to folks who couldn’t afford to pay to survive while attending. Of course, that introduces significant risk on our part, as students still only pay us back if they get a job paying $50k/yr or more, but we’ve spent the last two years perfecting our admissions and course to select hard-working folks who are likely to have what it takes to get hired and do everything we can to get them there. For context, we have dozens of full-time interview sourcers and multiple companies per day coming in to interview our students - incentive alignment is powerful. Now that that’s working we can afford to take more risk. We’re hoping we reach a point where anyone anywhere can move quickly to a high paying job, and only pay back if it works!
- kermittd 8y agoIncredible opportunity! If I wasn't familiar with Lambda School it would be hard to believe. I think that shows just how good of a deal it is. - current Lambda Student
- bluedevilzn 8y agoHow do you collect the money? What's preventing a student from not paying you?
- austenallred 8y agoWe get students’ tax returns to verify income and they sign a contract. What’s stopping them from not paying is the American contract law system which is severely underrated.
- incompatible 8y agoI suppose the contract obliges them to look for / accept a job after graduating? I mean, I'd be happy to take money to study for a while, but I wouldn't look for a job afterwards.
- WestCoastJustin 8y agoJust a heads up. Your site website navbar header is pretty hard to read (desktop, chrome, on mac). Here's a screenshot of what it looks like for me. The links are blending into the background. https://imgur.com/Gil5L9c https://imgur.com/Gil5L9c
- austenallred 8y agoThanks, you’re 100% correct. Currently working on a redesign.
- reustle 8y agoMaybe worth doing a quick hotfix until the redesign is pushed?
- austenallred 8y agoYa the hacky way is to use a new image with a dark background, will have it up soon.
- austenallred 8y agoFix pushed, will deploy momentarily
- jotm 8y agoThis is fantastic work, I wish you guys all the best!
- rb808 8y agoCan I ask how many students have a degree already? I'm not sure if its a University alternative or a capstone course.
- austenallred 8y agoIt’s more a university alternative. About half have a degree of some kind, very few in CS.
- jacobajit 8y agoCan you compare your model to Modern Labor, which also received a lot of attention for a similar premise recently? https://modernlabor.com https://modernlabor.com
- austenallred 8y agoModern Labor’s founder used to be a finance partner of ours, and decided to do something similar to what we had been working on. Modern Labor is (and this is my biased opinion) focused on the finance part and on bringing cost down, less on building “the school.” We are mostly focused on building the best school there’s ever been, and finance is a necessary piece for us but not necessarily the driver. Just different models!
- hkdobrev 8y agoWhile this program could be useful to many students, it's a loan program. > Upon completion of the program, students will pay 10% of their salary for a five year period once they're making at least $50,000 per year. The max possible payment is capped at $50,000.
- austenallred 8y agoIt’s an income share agreement, which is quite different than a loan, and you only repay if you get hired making $50k 94 more. And it’s also a school that’s run quite differently than other schools out there. We have to do everything differently from first principles to make this work. If your point is “the $2,000 isn’t free” then yes you’re 100% correct.
- Nasrudith 8y agoThat brings to mind the literal classical lawyer joke/logic exercise Paradox of the Court. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_the_Court https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_the_Court Paradox of the Court. I suspect the $2k could suffer from a free-rider problem from those who never intend to acquire such a job - especially in low cost of living areas with few jobs but unwilling or unable to relocate. Ideally it wouldn't make sense to do so.
- jasonsbarr 8y ago10% of a $50k net salary is far less than my student loan payments would be out of that same net salary.
- dtrailin 8y agoWhile I think what Lambda School does seems pretty great I have to wonder what will happen when the next recession hits. If their new grads aren't getting hired, they can't afford to pay for their current class. It feels like something that is only possible right now because of bubble economics and cheap VC capital.
- austenallred 8y agoWe have to prepare pretty seriously for a recession - recessions are when school enrollment explodes because job opportunities dry up. I can’t go into all the details publicly, but it’s something we have to take serious consideration to prepare for.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- pl0x 8y ago@austenallred What's the catch? Lambda School has always struck me as scam like with a very vocal CEO and over promises. What happens when regulators start cracking down on these practices and what makes you think Lambda will be successful when most bootcamps have failed or been acquired.
- austenallred 8y agoThe catch is that you have to pay us back if it works. What makes Lambda School different than other code schools is a few things: 1. Our incentives are entirely aligned with the student. We don’t get paid unless they get hired so juicing revenue numbers with weak students just isn’t interesting, in fact it’s fatal. 2. We put an insane amount of time, money, effort and energy into instructional design. Lambda School is nine months long, and includes a computer science curriculum most bootcamp grads need (and lack). Regulators love us - they’re sick of for profit schools promising a lot and delivering little except debt. We’re the antidote to that. That’s why there’s so much hype.
- japhyr 8y agoI agree that Lambda School sounds too good to be true, but once you start looking they've got real answers for just about everything. I'm a high school teacher, and after watching students struggle with decisions about what to do after high school, I love what I'm seeing with Lambda School. What do you think regulators need to address at Lambda School?
- austenallred 8y agoI guess “seems too good to be true” is an OK marketing problem for us to have. If you’d like you can attend classes on a trial basis and check it out!
- bbg215 8y agoWhat exactly is your admissions criteria for someone to get accepted to LS? How big of a problem is that for your student-to-job conversion rate when the criteria has to become less stringent to scale?
- duxup 8y agoIt is an interesting system. I did a "full time" 3 month long more "traditional" structured boot camp. I really wish it had been longer and that they.... filtered .... students as it went.
- MarkMc 8y agoDo you mean the teacher's effectiveness would be improved if slow learners were cut from the class?
- austenallred 8y agoWe use mastery based progression, so if you don’t fully grasp a unit you roll back, we assign you a new instructor/mentor, and you work on that week again.
- tdfx 8y agoI wouldn't say slow learners are typically the problem. From my experience in teaching it's the students with lazy habits that tend to break down the professors' effectiveness. People that refuse to "learn how to learn" and expect everything to be googled for them can be difficult to filter for during the interview process and really cause a drag on the class as a whole.
- duxup 8y ago> teaching it's the students with lazy habits I think that's very much a thing. I do think that some folks ... just can't beyond that, but I agree lazy habits are the worst and frustrating. I put in a TON of time outside class when I went to a bootcamp. I'd make progress and come back with a quick question for the instructor, and there would be a series of people with the same questions waiting to talk to the instructor who clearly did nothing since the last time they talked to the instructor and were asking the same question as the day before who are mildly perturbed the instructor doesn't just give them the answer... A lot of the time I just gave up trying to talk to the instructor.
- duxup 8y ago
- raidicy 8y agoI'm a current student at Lambda School going part time. So this is pretty biased: I've been enrolled for about 6 months. I've had previous programming experience so I feel I've had a leg up. But had no idea how to use the skills or build anything. I've never felt this confident with what I've learned in my life. Period. Everyone I've interacted with is genuine, welcoming, and gives me the impression they want me to succeed. I'm truly grateful to be able to be enrolled and I look forward to working to be able to pay back the school the value they've imparted in me. Thank you Austen and everyone from Lambda School!
- meowface 8y agoLooks amazing. Just recommended it to a few of my friends who are considering moving into a career in technology. I hope this becomes a new model for education, both tech and non-tech.
- morningmoon 8y agoFantastic work. You and the other founders should be very proud of what you’re doing. This is exactly what the world needs more of. I recommend this to anyone looking to switch careers.
- joshvm 8y agoSyllabuses are here, fyi: https://learn.lambdaschool.com https://learn.lambdaschool.com
- fovc 8y agoDo you guys make any money on the recruiting end?
- austenallred 8y agoNot yet
- cm2012 8y agoI really hope you guys succeed. College is a dead model - this is life changing. At scale, it's world changing.
- willart4food 8y agoThat's an interesting business model
- crb002 8y agoBest would be a company that just takes on apprentices for $20/h. No debt.
- hiei 8y agoRE: Those interviewing at Lambda (rejected) Luck of the draw with who decides to interview you, I had a guy from the admissions team with zero enthusiasm essentially just reading off of a list of questions. I tried to answer well but giving off good energy from a dead duck is hard. I also was more practical with my answers of wanting to get into coding, jump in profession, curious, experience as a BA, writing technical docs and general data analysis. Each response by the interview was simply: "hmmm ok." Rejected around ten minutes after my TEN minute call. PS tell them you love coding, live and breathe it, etc.
- t0mmycollison 8y agoHey there -- this isn't right, and I'd love to know more about what happened. Do you mind emailing me with more details? I'm tommy@lambdaschool.com
- alkibiades 8y agohuh, didn't know there was another collison brother. you guys are like the weasleys.
- austenallred 8y agoYes, the third brother isn’t quite as successful as the other two, who are brilliant. He works at a payments company in San Francisco.
- paxy 8y agoThis is standard tech recruiting even outside of Lambda
- hiei 8y agoIf it were an HR screening I would agree but I think there is some responsibility on the interviewer to remain engaged.
- jedberg 8y agoSo if I'm reading this right, the normal LS program costs 17% of your salary, but this program pays you $2K/mo while you attend and then only charges 10% after? Of is it 10% on top of the 17%? Either way, good on you guys for trying to do something that helps people that are disadvantaged. You guys should start a charity arm that people can donate to so that more people can get the stipend!
- austenallred 8y agoThere is no 17% if you’re taking a living stipend. It’s either: 1. No stipend, 17% for 2 yrs 2. Stipend, 10% for 5 yrs They’re mutually exclusive. And we do have a charity arm! https://lambdapaf.org https://lambdapaf.org
- jedberg 8y agoExcellent! Sounds like a fair deal. Didn't know about the charity -- that's great! Is it a 503(c)? The website doesn't seem to have too much info about where the donation goes.
- austenallred 8y agoWe have a fiscal sponsor if you want to send large donations, which would go to a 501c3 and be tax deductible. The fund itself is a small nonprofit waiting on 501c3 approval.
- nickchuck 8y agoDang. This really is like a no brainier now. Keep rocking it!
- titanomachy 8y agoAusten: does your admissions process give any weight to outside referrals? I have a friend who would be an incredible fit for your program. I'm an engineer at a top company and I'm sure he could reach my level with some guidance, I just don't have time to give him that support myself.
- austenallred 8y agoIt should. Email me the details and I’ll pass on to the admissions team. austen@lambdaschool.com.
- deilline 8y agoI'm an experienced developer looking to dabble in some of the tracks you offer. What's the best way to determine if this is a fit for me?
- austenallred 8y agoEmail admissions@lambdaschool.com. Admittedly we're mostly built for folks trying to break into tech right now, but will be modularizing and offering different segments in the near future.
- shinryuu 8y agoI’d be really interested in filling in some gaps that I have. I’m self-taught, but I definitely have some gaps in the algorithm side of things.
- sharcerer 8y agoAusten, I was wondering if you would consider some online version of Lambda for regions where Lambda isn't there. I don't mean the academic part, but the hiring part. Sort of an evaluation of a student's skills to see if they are on par with those educated by Lambda Faculty. On the basis of those evaluations/tests/ projects , you can use your network to get those people jobs/ internships. For eg: I am from India. Currently in a 2nd tier college. Learning ML,NN, Data science and am doing Kaggle currently. But, college CGPA and college name is a major hindrance while getting internships. Am thinking of dropping out after 2nd year, because it's a huge waste of time.
- austenallred 8y agoLambda School is entirely online; we don't have the infrastructure just just yet to go into India, but hopefully in coming months we'll open up.
- notthisagain666 8y agoLooking forward to it!
- sharcerer 8y agoCool. Thanks. For me, the study materials , curriculum is not the hindrance. Being among like minded individuals, getting internships is the problem. If you think about it every education institution which develops into a brand has 1 key thing. Great, ambitious students and matching support. That's what I want. To be part of respectable group of individuals. Now, I know this might not fit the DNA of Lambda School, but, i think a new service where students submitted an application along with their work, projects and the site listed these students ( with very strict vetting to identify unique students, with their unique skillset mentioned) and partnered with companies for internships ONLY (no jobs )in the beginning. As the validation of the students skillset would start to take place in 1-2 years, the brand would gain recognition like Lambda. A small upfront application fee would be charged.
- raj7desai 8y agoDo check out schoolofacceleratedlearning.com. Might interest you. Mail me on raj@soal.io in case you're interested.
- notthisagain666 8y agoThis is a great initiative! Thank you Lambda School. Will be following your progress closely.
- haywirez 8y agoThis is US-only, I presume?
- barry-cotter 8y agohttps://lambdaschool.com/eu/ https://lambdaschool.com/eu/ And the EU and U.K. Other countries coming soon, Canada in ~two weeks.
- blenderpride 8y agoWhat do you say about the long term implications of this? When you unload huge number of these developers in the market, they'll take the jobs away from high debt students from the real universities. Overtime, due to excess supply (low risk), developer wage will decline.
- _JasonE 8y agoHey Lambda team. Congratulations on the ISA program and living stipend! I'm sorry for having so many questions. We have an ISA program as well and I found these to be the most important questions people have about coding bootcamp ISAs: 1. Do the payments begin if the new job is not in-field (not related to Software Engineering)? 2. Is there a grace period or deadline (depending on your point of view) before the payments begin? If so, how is the monthly payment amount calculated? 2. Is there a grace period in the event they stop working after the payments begin? 3. Do the ISA payments kick in if it's not a new job? In other words, if they continue working in a job that makes >=$50K/yr? 4. Are the requirements for participating in your ISA program similar to obtaining a loan? Good credit, no defaults, etc.. Sorry if I missed any of these answers in the announcement or terms. We have been offering an ISA program at our Houston and Atlanta based bootcamp for just over 6 months now and recently adjusted it based off feedback so that payments only kick in when the new job is in-field, includes a grace period, and must be a new job. However, we couldn't do much for the credit history requirements. An ISA is essentially a delayed loan and requires the same (if not stricter) credit history requirements. It's a good alternative to taking out a loan for some, but it's usually not a fallback if you can't get one. Thanks Lambda team!
- t0mmycollison 8y ago1. The language around what counts as in-field is in our ISA. It's more dependent on what skills you use in your job as opposed to your title. You can see a sample ISA we use at https://lambdaschool.com/faq/ https://lambdaschool.com/faq/. 2. You pay nothing between when you finish the technical portion of the class and when you get a job, and after you start your job, there's a 30-day grace period. 2. The payments stop if you stop working. You can think of them as being 24 monthly repayments that will pause if you lose your job. 3. It does, but only after they finish the technical portion of the class, and they're using the skills they learned. We do look at things on a case-by-case basis. 4. Nope! We don't care about your credit score or your debt load. Things get tricky if you have a fraud conviction, but anything short of that won't impact our decision. Hope this helps!
- bbg215 8y ago
- absorber 8y agoIn the FAQ (https://lambdaschool.com/faq/ https://lambdaschool.com/faq/) it says: > We offer part time courses for some of our tracks. Part-time course hours are Monday-Thursday 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., Saturday 9 a.m. to 12 noon Pacific. Are these times also for EU students?