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Wow, $1 for 100 emails is very very very very expensive. So expensive that I'd opt to build this in house rather and take on the costs associated with it and st

Wow, $1 for 100 emails is very very very very expensive. So expensive that I'd opt to build this in house rather and take on the costs associated with it and still come out saving money. It's a pretty solid idea otherwise.

flatearther43 8y ago
Not sure if I agree, but what do you think would be a fair price for something like this?
mrbbk 8y ago
Curious how you calculated that -- mind sharing back of the napkin?
- carlosdp 8y ago
  The price is right there on the page? $1 for 100 approvals (additional SMS cost not included)
  - IanCal 8y ago
    I think they're referring to the other side of the equation, the cost of building it in house and maintaining it and coming out ahead.
krsdcbl 8y ago
Felt the same, though it really depends very much on your use case. If you end up in the thousands of daily approvals, then yes, that would be immensly expensive for the service it provides
davedx 8y ago
> I'd opt to build this in house rather and take on the costs associated with it and still come out saving money This seems to be the default position of almost everyone in IT, everywhere I go. People make this claim without doing any calculations. I can imagine building this in house would be at least a few weeks of developer work and some more devops. That's tens of thousands of dollars. You'd have to send a million emails to break even. How many of this kind of transactional email do you send per year?
- anitil 8y ago
  It's a crazy calculation. For mass marketing it'd be outrageous. But for mission-critical business flows? It's a rounding error.
  - crsv 8y ago
    Anyone that’s at a scale where this is connected to business certical workflows is likely equipped to build this in house at a fraction of the cost. In terms of level of effort, this product itself is a rounding error.
    - chii 8y ago
      Let's say there's a need to approve 10 things a week, each needing a 5 person approvals. That's $2 per month of cost. A developer costs $150k a year, and if it takes a month to develop, you could have the service for some 5000 months. In-house developers should focus on the business domain, not on custom building business processes.
      - crsv 8y ago
        No one does this “approve 10 things a week with a 5 person approval” flow that isn’t already done in some organized platform or system. Where on earth is this use case happening that this is both a valid use case and a savvy enough customer to buy this solution? This is not a thing.
      - dsl 8y ago
        Go talk to your vendor management team about getting a $2/mo contract signed. What does support look like because if this goes down at 2 AM, business is impacted. Legal needs to review because it is sending employee PII (emails, phone numbers, etc) to a third party, who now knows the individuals in critical "approval roles". Next hit up security and have them do an audit since this is going to be part of a security control. For bonus points, the internal pentest team finds a bypass that ApproveAPI needs to fix. Your $150k a year developer is now spending 3-5 hours a week for 3 weeks shepherding a vendor onboarding for something they could have built and tested in a few hours.
agrinman 8y ago
Hey -- one of the creators here, thanks for your comment. We definitely don't want to price out companies from using our service so we are listening carefully. I also want to mention that we do support volume pricing, so if you want to send lots of approvals per month we can work together on a price that makes sense for your use case -- just reach out to us at support@approveapi.com.
- dsl 8y ago
  You are clearly baking in your Twilio/Mailgun costs in to the per-approval price. Why not just let me provide an API key and charge $5/mo for the service itself?
- Aeolun 8y ago
  On average, a boring approval wastes maybe 1 minute between the requester waiting and the approver opening whatever system they use for approval. Over 100 approvals, this is 100 minutes wasted. At $100 per hour for a professional, you could save around $159 by using this service. Seems like the pricing works out to me. You just have to figure out how much time is wasted in traditional approval and how much time this approval method saves the customers.
IanCal 8y ago
I think that's a bit strong without talking about use cases. Approvals here cost ~1¢. Picking a figure of $100k as a developer salary (as it was the first result in a quick search) that puts a lowish bound as about $400/day. So you could take your estimate of build & maintenance times per year, multiply by about 40-50,000 and that's how many approvals you're looking at. So if you're google doing this every login, sure, that would be prohibitively expensive. If it's my accountants site doing it before they charge me a different amount for filing (there's one of these every year) or being the approve/reject part of an HR holiday system, or anything less common you'd have to be pretty big before it'd be worth spending a day or so building it yourself. Personally I could see myself using it in some automated workflows I'm building now. Script runs, but before it does something irreversible (e.g. ordering an item) it checks with me that things look OK. It'll cost me a tiny fraction of the total spending, and it's ready right now (and works!).
knadh 8y ago
I made a similar open source verification gateway recently. It supports emails and you can write other providers as plugins. https://github.com/knadh/otpgateway https://github.com/knadh/otpgateway

flatearther43 8y ago

Not sure if I agree, but what do you think would be a fair price for something like this?

mrbbk 8y ago

Curious how you calculated that -- mind sharing back of the napkin?

carlosdp 8y ago
The price is right there on the page? $1 for 100 approvals (additional SMS cost not included)
- IanCal 8y ago
  I think they're referring to the other side of the equation, the cost of building it in house and maintaining it and coming out ahead.

krsdcbl 8y ago

Felt the same, though it really depends very much on your use case. If you end up in the thousands of daily approvals, then yes, that would be immensly expensive for the service it provides

davedx 8y ago

> I'd opt to build this in house rather and take on the costs associated with it and still come out saving money This seems to be the default position of almost everyone in IT, everywhere I go. People make this claim without doing any calculations. I can imagine building this in house would be at least a few weeks of developer work and some more devops. That's tens of thousands of dollars. You'd have to send a million emails to break even. How many of this kind of transactional email do you send per year?

anitil 8y ago
It's a crazy calculation. For mass marketing it'd be outrageous. But for mission-critical business flows? It's a rounding error.
- crsv 8y ago
  Anyone that’s at a scale where this is connected to business certical workflows is likely equipped to build this in house at a fraction of the cost. In terms of level of effort, this product itself is a rounding error.
  - chii 8y ago
    Let's say there's a need to approve 10 things a week, each needing a 5 person approvals. That's $2 per month of cost. A developer costs $150k a year, and if it takes a month to develop, you could have the service for some 5000 months. In-house developers should focus on the business domain, not on custom building business processes.
    - crsv 8y ago
      No one does this “approve 10 things a week with a 5 person approval” flow that isn’t already done in some organized platform or system. Where on earth is this use case happening that this is both a valid use case and a savvy enough customer to buy this solution? This is not a thing.
    - dsl 8y ago
      Go talk to your vendor management team about getting a $2/mo contract signed. What does support look like because if this goes down at 2 AM, business is impacted. Legal needs to review because it is sending employee PII (emails, phone numbers, etc) to a third party, who now knows the individuals in critical "approval roles". Next hit up security and have them do an audit since this is going to be part of a security control. For bonus points, the internal pentest team finds a bypass that ApproveAPI needs to fix. Your $150k a year developer is now spending 3-5 hours a week for 3 weeks shepherding a vendor onboarding for something they could have built and tested in a few hours.

agrinman 8y ago

Hey -- one of the creators here, thanks for your comment. We definitely don't want to price out companies from using our service so we are listening carefully. I also want to mention that we do support volume pricing, so if you want to send lots of approvals per month we can work together on a price that makes sense for your use case -- just reach out to us at support@approveapi.com.

dsl 8y ago
You are clearly baking in your Twilio/Mailgun costs in to the per-approval price. Why not just let me provide an API key and charge $5/mo for the service itself?
Aeolun 8y ago
On average, a boring approval wastes maybe 1 minute between the requester waiting and the approver opening whatever system they use for approval. Over 100 approvals, this is 100 minutes wasted. At $100 per hour for a professional, you could save around $159 by using this service. Seems like the pricing works out to me. You just have to figure out how much time is wasted in traditional approval and how much time this approval method saves the customers.

IanCal 8y ago

I think that's a bit strong without talking about use cases. Approvals here cost ~1¢. Picking a figure of $100k as a developer salary (as it was the first result in a quick search) that puts a lowish bound as about $400/day. So you could take your estimate of build & maintenance times per year, multiply by about 40-50,000 and that's how many approvals you're looking at. So if you're google doing this every login, sure, that would be prohibitively expensive. If it's my accountants site doing it before they charge me a different amount for filing (there's one of these every year) or being the approve/reject part of an HR holiday system, or anything less common you'd have to be pretty big before it'd be worth spending a day or so building it yourself. Personally I could see myself using it in some automated workflows I'm building now. Script runs, but before it does something irreversible (e.g. ordering an item) it checks with me that things look OK. It'll cost me a tiny fraction of the total spending, and it's ready right now (and works!).

knadh 8y ago

I made a similar open source verification gateway recently. It supports emails and you can write other providers as plugins. https://github.com/knadh/otpgateway https://github.com/knadh/otpgateway