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China Is Currently Holding 1,600 Teslas at Customs

55 points by ilamont 8y ago

dogsgobork 8y ago
Reportedly already resolved. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-agrees-solution-tesla-customs-155625079.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-agrees-solution-tesla-c...
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  Did Elon have to take one big thing for the team?
  - wrong_variable 8y ago
    Maybe he gave Xi his first born.
  - superhuzza 8y ago
    Fyre reference? I doubt Elon busted out the mouthwash :)
etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
Tesla must be running low on guanxi. Best to take care of that. I'm sure Tesla realizes it, but a foreign company just can't protect itself using the legal system the same way they can in Western society. This seems to be a continuing source of surprise for US companies...
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  Not sure they can do much, trade war is raging and all. They're a tiny soldier and generals decide what happens. (Especially since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act )
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- diminish 8y ago
  a "foreign" company in a western society isn't much protected neither. this is an illusion of the native local companies on what jurisdiction to trust and the dominant media structure.
  - sgt 8y ago
    And what do you base that on? The rule of law in western society is usually well respected by both individuals, government and companies. There are many cases where large corporations have been defeated by smaller groups. I am not saying the opposite isn't occasionally true though.
    - diminish 8y ago
      "The rule of law in western society is usually well respected by both individuals, government and companies." This is an illusion, and a propaganda to self which already has proven wrong last 20 years. Yet this propaganda surprisingly prevails. That makes me think the education in western societies, is in some sense totalitarian within a certain bounds. With endless cases we know that politics holds the key to rule of law in most western countries. Rule of law in edge cases is not even valid for the citizens of that particular country, and it's not at all valid for foreign individuals and corporations.
      - chii 8y ago
        > rule of law in western society is well respected. This is an illusion... Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. Most disputes in western society is handled very adequately by law. Some cases where monied interests somehow slips thru, or cases of bribery. But a majority of the time, it's treated as a vile crime. Unlike in countries where in order to do business, you have to establish "quanxi" (social connections), or outright pay protection money (ala places like Venezuela). The fact that a big deal is made by the media when a bribery scandal happens in western society attests to this fact.
        diminish 8y ago
- slowmovintarget 8y ago
  Western companies only see the dollar (umm... yuan) signs. "Gee, we weren't expecting them to steal^h^h^h compel by local law the transfer of our tech when we agreed to open a jointly-owned factory."
gamblor956 8y ago
Yet another one of the many failures to execute at Tesla... They desperately need a Gwynne Shotwell in charge of things there before it all goes to hell.
- imeron 8y ago
  I am not sure Tesla is that much worse than the rest. It’s just you don’t read about the mishaps of others.
CaliforniaKarl 8y ago
TBH, this isn’t too interesting, at least to me. In a previous job, I got to know our Import/Export lawyer, who we needed assistance every time we needed to ship anything technological overseas; it wasn’t just import headaches on the receiving end, there were also export headaches on the sending end. So it doesn’t surprise me if customs took some sample of product, found inconsistencies, and decided to hold the shipment. Yes it’s annoying and costs money (I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re paying storage charges), but you resolve it (cleanly) and move on.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  The question is how much politics/bribes determine which get sampled, how thoroughly, “finding” inconsistencies and how holding up gets decided. For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law.
  - raincom 8y ago
    In the states, we can recast your line thus: "For my friends, judicial/prosecutorial discretion; for my enemies, the law".
drosan 8y ago
...and nothing of value is lost.
baybal2 8y ago
Yet another time I want to tell people that a random Chinese official don't give fcuk about you or somebody being "an important foreign company" Reminds me of how a totally noname official in Shenzhen bonded customs zone detained the entire initial iPhone 5 shipment to US, pretty much just to have the pleasure seeing Apple China c-levels fly from Beijing and dance around him, filling every form he had, on a claim of wrong punctuation in original filling.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  This is sad and funny, do you have a source for it by the way?
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Just a local hearsay, but as a somebody who dealt with China for entire career, I can say that it does happen
cl42 8y ago
I think it's a solved problem -- "'We have already reached a resolution with Chinese customs, and we are working closely with them to resume clearance procedures on these vehicles,' a Tesla spokesperson said in a statement." From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tesla/china-agrees-to-tesla-remedy-for-model-3-customs-block-source-idUSKCN1QM196 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tesla/china-agrees-...
Tsubasachan 8y ago
The car industry is extremely messed up. Every country puts massive tariffs on them and tries to dissuade imports. Protectionism is still very much alive.
- rchaud 8y ago
  Well, yeah. Automotive is a strategic industry in a lot of countries, and governments pay big money in terms of tax incentives to get automakers to locate there and hire people. It's a long-term investment, and you don't want companies pulling out the second there's exchange rate volatility or labour-related issues.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Tell that to the current UK government.
rurban 8y ago
I'm not sure what I should think of that source. The next article claims that China will have an artificial sun soon, but forgets to mention that this would be the ITER in France, and it's a world wide collaboration effort, based on the Russian Tokomak design (with competing designs being tested in Germany and USA). Not "China's artificial sun"

55 points by ilamont 8y ago

Reportedly already resolved. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-agrees-solution-tesla-customs-155625079.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-agrees-solution-tesla-c...

DonHopkins 8y ago
Did Elon have to take one big thing for the team?
- wrong_variable 8y ago
  Maybe he gave Xi his first born.
- superhuzza 8y ago
  Fyre reference? I doubt Elon busted out the mouthwash :)

etaioinshrdlu 8y ago

Tesla must be running low on guanxi. Best to take care of that. I'm sure Tesla realizes it, but a foreign company just can't protect itself using the legal system the same way they can in Western society. This seems to be a continuing source of surprise for US companies...

onetimemanytime 8y ago
Not sure they can do much, trade war is raging and all. They're a tiny soldier and generals decide what happens. (Especially since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act )
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
diminish 8y ago
a "foreign" company in a western society isn't much protected neither. this is an illusion of the native local companies on what jurisdiction to trust and the dominant media structure.
- sgt 8y ago
  And what do you base that on? The rule of law in western society is usually well respected by both individuals, government and companies. There are many cases where large corporations have been defeated by smaller groups. I am not saying the opposite isn't occasionally true though.
  - diminish 8y ago
    "The rule of law in western society is usually well respected by both individuals, government and companies." This is an illusion, and a propaganda to self which already has proven wrong last 20 years. Yet this propaganda surprisingly prevails. That makes me think the education in western societies, is in some sense totalitarian within a certain bounds. With endless cases we know that politics holds the key to rule of law in most western countries. Rule of law in edge cases is not even valid for the citizens of that particular country, and it's not at all valid for foreign individuals and corporations.
    - chii 8y ago
      > rule of law in western society is well respected. This is an illusion... Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. Most disputes in western society is handled very adequately by law. Some cases where monied interests somehow slips thru, or cases of bribery. But a majority of the time, it's treated as a vile crime. Unlike in countries where in order to do business, you have to establish "quanxi" (social connections), or outright pay protection money (ala places like Venezuela). The fact that a big deal is made by the media when a bribery scandal happens in western society attests to this fact.
      - diminish 8y ago
slowmovintarget 8y ago
Western companies only see the dollar (umm... yuan) signs. "Gee, we weren't expecting them to steal^h^h^h compel by local law the transfer of our tech when we agreed to open a jointly-owned factory."

gamblor956 8y ago

Yet another one of the many failures to execute at Tesla... They desperately need a Gwynne Shotwell in charge of things there before it all goes to hell.

imeron 8y ago
I am not sure Tesla is that much worse than the rest. It’s just you don’t read about the mishaps of others.

CaliforniaKarl 8y ago

TBH, this isn’t too interesting, at least to me. In a previous job, I got to know our Import/Export lawyer, who we needed assistance every time we needed to ship anything technological overseas; it wasn’t just import headaches on the receiving end, there were also export headaches on the sending end. So it doesn’t surprise me if customs took some sample of product, found inconsistencies, and decided to hold the shipment. Yes it’s annoying and costs money (I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re paying storage charges), but you resolve it (cleanly) and move on.

Scoundreller 8y ago
The question is how much politics/bribes determine which get sampled, how thoroughly, “finding” inconsistencies and how holding up gets decided. For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law.
- raincom 8y ago
  In the states, we can recast your line thus: "For my friends, judicial/prosecutorial discretion; for my enemies, the law".

drosan 8y ago

...and nothing of value is lost.

baybal2 8y ago

Yet another time I want to tell people that a random Chinese official don't give fcuk about you or somebody being "an important foreign company" Reminds me of how a totally noname official in Shenzhen bonded customs zone detained the entire initial iPhone 5 shipment to US, pretty much just to have the pleasure seeing Apple China c-levels fly from Beijing and dance around him, filling every form he had, on a claim of wrong punctuation in original filling.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
This is sad and funny, do you have a source for it by the way?
- baybal2 8y ago
  Just a local hearsay, but as a somebody who dealt with China for entire career, I can say that it does happen

cl42 8y ago

I think it's a solved problem -- "'We have already reached a resolution with Chinese customs, and we are working closely with them to resume clearance procedures on these vehicles,' a Tesla spokesperson said in a statement." From: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tesla/china-agrees-to-tesla-remedy-for-model-3-customs-block-source-idUSKCN1QM196 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tesla/china-agrees-...

Tsubasachan 8y ago

The car industry is extremely messed up. Every country puts massive tariffs on them and tries to dissuade imports. Protectionism is still very much alive.

rchaud 8y ago
Well, yeah. Automotive is a strategic industry in a lot of countries, and governments pay big money in terms of tax incentives to get automakers to locate there and hire people. It's a long-term investment, and you don't want companies pulling out the second there's exchange rate volatility or labour-related issues.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Tell that to the current UK government.

rurban 8y ago

I'm not sure what I should think of that source. The next article claims that China will have an artificial sun soon, but forgets to mention that this would be the ITER in France, and it's a world wide collaboration effort, based on the Russian Tokomak design (with competing designs being tested in Germany and USA). Not "China's artificial sun"