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Could we make standardized durable containers that can simply be scrubbed, optionally polished and reused? Or just melted down and reused. Seemed to work ok for
by ohiovr 8y ago
Could we make standardized durable containers that can simply be scrubbed, optionally polished and reused? Or just melted down and reused. Seemed to work ok for the dairy industry decades before my birth.
- grecy 8y agoThat's the amazing thing about what the developed world right now, recycling is the worst of the three things we should be doing. i.e. Reduce. Reuse. Recycle. Go to a developing country and the deposit on the beer bottle costs more than the beer in it. They are all clean and reused. Tons of countries charge money for plastic bags, or have even made them illegal. We need to catch up.
- Scoundreller 8y agoDo you think the rest of the world is ready for milk in bags? And most other non-carbonated liquids?
- seanwilson 8y agoGlass bottles?
- ynniv 8y agoUsed glass is difficult to transport and not very efficient to recycle. It's a great option as long as you re-use the container locally.
- Scoundreller 8y agoI wish Heinekin’s World bottles succeeded: https://worksthatwork.com/artefacts/world-bottles https://worksthatwork.com/artefacts/world-bottles
- wil421 8y agoWhy would you use a plastic bag for milk? Most of the milk I buy comes in paper cartons.[1] Paper should degrade much faster than a plastic bag, plastic bottle, or glass. [1]https://www.horizon.com/faqs?f%5B5%5D=field_faq_category%3A98 https://www.horizon.com/faqs?f%5B5%5D=field_faq_category%3A9...
- YUMad 8y agoThe inside of that carton is still lined with plastic tho.
- AstralStorm 8y agoPlastic foil, much more biodegradable and probably compostable to boot, unlike PET.
- wil421 8y ago24% polyethylene is still much better than a near 100% plastic bag or milk container.
- o_nate 8y agoIt depends. If your county has the right equipment to recycle those mixed paper/plastic cartons then probably so, otherwise the whole thing goes into landfill or is incinerated, and that's more material than a plastic bag. You can check online if your county has the facility (unfortunately mine doesn't).
- Scoundreller 8y agoTetra is expensive. Great for long term storage and backpack durability, but not worth the added cost (read: resources used in their manufacture) for something that must be consumed within 1-2 weeks of opening. I do buy cheap wine in tetra boxes. They have a spigot to limit air-intake, so you can take your time to finish it.
- ceejayoz 8y agoI get my milk in sturdy glass bottles, which come with a $2 deposit so you bring them back for a wash and reuse.
- FooBarWidget 8y agoIn China there actually is milk (and soybean milk) sold in bags: https://static.businessinsider.com/image/4b05d2300000000000dadafc/image.jpg https://static.businessinsider.com/image/4b05d2300000000000d...
- jbay808 8y agoIn Canada too. http://canadiandesignresource.ca/graphics/packaging/bags-of-milk/ http://canadiandesignresource.ca/graphics/packaging/bags-of-...
- jtms 8y agoWe had milk in bags in elementary school in the late eighties in northern FL. You could pop your straw in, place on the table, apply rapid downward pressure: milk cannon! Amazing design, 10/10
- 1over137 8y agoThe thing is that 'reduce' and 'reuse' are basically anti-consumerist/anti-capitalist, and thus there is formidable opposition to them. Consider a neighbourhood where everyone has a lawn to mow. The lawnmover companies want to increase (not reduce) sales. So we end up with everyone having their own mower, which sits idle 95% of the time, instead of one community mower that's shared by neighbours. It's just a little example, but it extends to everything.
- chopin 8y agoBut there's more to it to desire an own mower: 1. Everybody wants to mow at the same time 2. Community goods are often treated careless, leaving me with a dirty or non-functional mower when it is my turn 3. Who is responsible for repairs
- derekp7 8y agoNot only that, but the last lawn mower I bought (with my first house) lasted me 20 years. Whereas I'm sure a lawn mower that is used 15 times a week wouldn't last much more than a season or two. Off topic, but when I bought a new mower last year, I couldn't believe how far the technology has come. No more primer bulb, starts easily on the first pull, and a few other items I don't recall off the top of my head. Same with cars, for example if you get out of it while it is still in gear it automatically puts itself in park, and it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling).
- SamReidHughes 8y ago> it can limp home with loss of coolant (it fires every other cylinder pushing air through the others for cooling). Wow, this really cheered up my morning. Thanks.
- ghufran_syed 8y agoDo you have a reference for the car engine thing? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything yet. Sounds really interesting, I'd like to read more.
- duckMuppet 8y agoCatch up???... Anyone even semi educated or over 55 recalls that when they grew up, most items came in glass containers, containers that you were required to place a deposit, and return for a refund. It's only recent history, that a non conservative society which values expediency at a price of disposability and non ownership for freedom has become the norm. More than this, the recycle scam is finally being exposed, and not soon enough in my estimation.. Islands of plastic in the Pacific ocean, so that people in cities feel better about themselves while driving to and from yoga in their prius while finger wagging truck driving hillbillies in the middle of the country. Meanwhile, mayors, local reps, and governors try to export the problems somewhere else while millenials look to the federal govt and the administrative state as their saviours, so nothing really has to get done. Cue the food/milk/bag/whatever delivery as a service folks. This has cash cow written all over it..
- andygates 8y agoDeposits and glass work well for fairly local industries; the big soft drink companies have a broader geographic reach and so are motivated to make a lighter bottle to reduce shipping costs. Legislation would probably be needed to require reusables or make disposables unattractively expensive to corporate HQ. And that's before we even mention sachets. The very devil.
- grecy 8y agoTons of Developing and Undeveloped countries I've spent time in have reuseable glass coke bottles..... It can be done
- Symbiote 8y agoSoft drinks are usually bottled/canned fairly close to the consumers. For example, Coca Cola has six manufacturing sites in the UK [1]. Sometimes the concentrated syrup will be transported to the bottling company; I think this is probably the usual case for smaller markets. [1] https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/about-us/our-business https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/about-us/our-business
- bluGill 8y agoBig soft drink companies have bottling plants all over. Coke isn't made in Atlanta Georgia and shipped to Des Moines IA: it is made in Atlantic IA and Shipped to Des Moints. I don't know where else Coke has plants, but I would guess nearly every country in the world - with many having more than one. Coke delivers to the local store and goes back empty for more so this would work well if they would go back to glass bottles. It isn't that simple though, I have relatives that worked for coke back in the glass bottle days and they would never drink coke from a glass bottle - they knew first hand how hard it was to get those bottles clean again. New plastic bottles and cans are always clean.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoWe could, but then industry might get together and form a littering organisation to reframe the problem into one of personal ethics and responsibility. Neatly making it nothing whatsoever to do with those that made the problem. Like they did in 1950-something forming Keep America Beautiful when one US state was encacting legislation to require deposit and reuse. As we can see, it worked really well. The environment was saved, waste and littering are things of the past. Some people still believe it's a grass roots organisation simply trying to improve the beauty of the country. Edit: founding members Philip Morris, Anheuser-Busch, PepsiCo, and Coca-Cola
- Scoundreller 8y agoIt will probably happen. Industry will get on board when they know they won’t have to pay back a lot of those deposits. I’d prefer a straight tax instead so it goes into general revenue instead of bribing industry.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoThing is, unless industry are on the hook at both ends, they are incentivised to discourage, find ways around, or market against it. So I'd prefer manufacturers responsible for every last cent of running a full-scale return and reuse programme. If that makes fizzy drinks more expensive, well, I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. Externalities are what started us on the way to this mess in the first place.
- gwbas1c 8y ago> Or just melted down and reused That's called recycling Based on this article, it looks like "Or just melted down and reused" doesn't work very well.
- avip 8y agoWe’ve been doing that for thousands of years. The only tiny issue is convincing people to use it, and informing public that free market has failed as a framework for making environmental decisions.
- merpnderp 8y agoWhy would you say the free market has failed? If you're assigning blame shouldn't you be pointing at the democracy which regulates the market? You disagree with how a majority of your fellow citizens vote, so either you were simply outvoted on what is important, or you believe democracy failed.
- _jal 8y agoNot the OP, but this is straightforward: the market fails to price externalities. Costs are distorted and borne by others. You can regulate it, but if you have sufficient control to price in all externalities and then do so, you are not talking about a 'free market' anymore. And what is the role of democracy in regulating global public goods? How are you going to vote on environmental protections on other continents?
- merpnderp 8y agoJust because you add a few more rules to a free market doesn't cease to mean it is a free market. "How are you going to vote on environmental protections on other continents?" Trade negotiations? Or are you asking if invasion and war are an option, which they absolutely are not.
- mrfusion 8y agoI imagine the grocery store of twenty years from now will just have giant barrels of products and everyone brings in their own containers to fill up.
- Scoundreller 8y agoOr just bigger containers. If laundry detergent doesn’t go bad, why aren’t I buying it in 25L or 50L barrels? We buy 10year supplies of other products (the machines themselves), why not their consumables? They go up in price every year too. That or buying the concentrate and diluting it yourself with the old container. That bottle of windex (spray glass cleaner) is 95% water. Put a nice big tax on consumables, reduce the lowest rates of income tax with the revenue (or write cheques) and voila.
- 1over137 8y ago50 L is very heavy. You'd then need an automobile (which maybe in your country you already have, but if every human had one, we'd be in worse trouble.) Instead of bigger containers, reusable containers. I have a 4 L container for laundry detergent that I fill up at the store on my walk home from work, fits nicely in my backpack.
- Scoundreller 8y agoA fair point. But larger containers would be a good option for those that can. Instead, I just buy 10x 5L containers when they’re on sale. A big waste of plastic.
- AstralStorm 8y agoWouldn't be a waste if you could return the containers and the design does not change often. Barring that, plastic foil is more friendly. Buy a refill if available.
- edflsafoiewq 8y agoYou can buy powdered detergent in a cardboard box.
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- mrfusion 8y agoThe pool company does this with chlorine jugs. You pay ten dollars or so for the jug. Or you can bring your own to trade in for a full one. Beer growlers are a similar concept. Maybe this just spreads to more and more products.
- vegardx 8y agoWe could start with the simple things, like reusable and standardised takeout boxes and cutlery. Add a small deposit on the return and make sure that any takeout place is required to accept returns, which they in turn can wash and reuse.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]