17 ms·

France’s new high-speed trains

161 points by Osiris30 8y ago

masonic 8y ago
You can do a lot with electric trains where electricity is cheap (75% nuclear generation).
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Except when the transformer next to its central artery (aorta?) and maintenance facility gets too hot: https://www.thelocal.fr/20180727/fire-blocks-montparnasse-train-station-in-paris-at-height-of-holiday-exodus https://www.thelocal.fr/20180727/fire-blocks-montparnasse-tr...
  - _fizz_buzz_ 8y ago
    Accidents happen. Not sure what your point is here.
l9k 8y ago
Related, in France as well: Hyperloop TT is developing, in Toulouse, the futuristic hyperloop idea: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/hyperloop-firm-unveils-first-images-of-its-new-test-track-in-toulouse.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/hyperloop-firm-unveils-first...
- __m 8y ago
  Not exactly something to be proud of. Also "The idea was envisioned by Tesla CEO Elon Musk in a white paper in 2013". No, it was hyped by Musk, the idea dates back to 1904
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous how much credit Musk gets for this idea. I remember one being a plot point of an old (70s-ish?) Larry Niven novel.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      It's an interesting phenomena that seems to happen all the time. Generic idea exists for a while, then someone proposes a more specific implementation and gets known for that, then people start rethinking those details and arrive at the generic idea again, but still think of it as coming from that person. Another example is how plain-old Merkle trees are now being called "blockchain": Satoshi combined them with other ideas (like POW) to arrive at Bitcoin, then other people started separating those off and got back at just Merkle trees, but still think of them as originating from Bitcoin.
l9k 8y ago
The author mentions the similarity between the name InOui and "ennui" (boredom), but seem to ignore that "inouï" is an actual word that means unprecedented/incredible/unheard-of. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inou%C3%AF https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inou%C3%AF
- a3_nm 8y ago
  Yeah -- I'm French and I had never realized that "inoui" was somewhat close to "ennui". In French pronunciation the two first vowels are really different ("ennui" in French starts with a nasal 'a' sound which doesn't resemble an 'i' at all, to French ears at least). Another point missed by the article is that in French "ennui" usually doesn't have the philosophical undertones that it has in English. Outside of a philosophical context, in French "ennui" (as a feeling) just means "boredom" and that's it. In everyday French you also use "ennui" to mean an annoyance or trouble, i.e., "avoir des ennuis" means "run into trouble", or "l'ennui c'est que ..." means "the problem is that..."
  - microcolonel 8y ago
    > In French pronunciation the two first vowels are really different ("ennui" in French starts with a nasal 'a' sound which doesn't resemble an 'i' at all, to French ears at least). Yeah, I was confused when I tried to understand the connection they were trying to make. > Another point missed by the article is that in French "ennui" usually doesn't have the philosophical undertones that it has in English. Fatty liver is a disease, foie gras is a delicacy. ;- )
    - mc32 8y ago
      But we could say “fatted liver” and that would work, but of course food sophisticates need a more sophisticated term for their food to taste better.
      - frutiger 8y ago
        Side note: grammatically "fattened liver" should be preferred over "fatted liver".
ucaetano 8y ago
Worth remembering that France hasn't fared very well in rail competition lately: the French-Government-controlled Eurostar chose the Velaro train sets from German Siemens to replace the existing TGV-derived train sets. It sparked a national outrage (because a company controlled by the French government should, in their opinion, only buy French) and a lawsuit from Alston (who makes the TGV).
- mc32 8y ago
  If I were French and our rolling stock were competitive, I’d be upset if the government gave a leg up to the competition given the strong unions and jobs the TGV provides. It may save a buck or two but it also is a blow against local producers.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    You're essentially advocating for tariffs and "buy local" requirements. Not only they are bad for the economy, they're also mostly illegal in the EU. > If I were French and our rolling stock were competitive Well, it just wasn't as competitive as the German one.
    - mc32 8y ago
      It’s from your taxes (unless the Germans are donating from their coffers), so yeah you should have a local preference if it’s competitive (near as good or better). It adds to local economy and also staves off monopolization of producers.
      - ucaetano 8y ago
        Nope, it is anti-competitive and bad for the economy, as it creates trade barriers and stifles innovation, as well as using your taxes badly. It essentially accounts to government subsidies for a certain company. And that's why it is illegal in the EU.
        8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
supernova87a 8y ago
SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pressure is rising on them, and they think they need to branch out / cut off compartments of the business to make it better. But this is tinkering rather than addressing the fundamental issues (inability to fire people, change cost structure, etc. due to political interference). Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have. Just how much money-losing depends on the political environment and skill of the management. UK tried this sort of thing and it left everyone with a shittier experience, though they could claim that they successfully privatized the industry -- everyone knows that's a total lie. At least France has a history of pride in the speed of the trains, so that will keep things in check a bit. They'll pay through the nose for it though.
- titanix2 8y ago
  > It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. I think this is mandated by the EU. And it could be a good thing. I'm personally fed up to be treated like a thief when I forgot composting my ticket (which happen because there is not gate to access the rails) or when I could not buy it in the first place (some station doesn't have have vending machines). Also the price lottery for TGV tickets is infuriating (price goes from 14€ to 140€ for the ride I take the most) and the commercial strategy of the SNCF is to offer cheap TGV which lacks any confort to kind of punish you not buying the more expensive option. But actually I would even be happier if we import all the working staff from Japan and make them the whole thing working smoothly under a join JR-France company.
  - ambicapter 8y ago
    For english speakers, "composting" here means punching a ticket. I never understood where the word came from, and I'm a native French speaker.
solidsnack9000 8y ago
While high-speed trains are struggling to gain a foothold in some parts of the world (looking at you, California), France’s superfast rail services are looking at a very active, more competitive future. SNCF’s new trains should help it meet the challenge posed by new competitors. Simply called the TGV 2020, these trains offer some clear improvements, as illustrated in the video above. For a start, the train’s shorter engine (59 feet instead of the current 72) opens up as much as 20 percent more space for passengers (740, as opposed to the current 556), while also delivering a high maximum speed of 220 miles per hour. It's great how this publication wants to inspire the US to learn from the rest of the world. What if they started by using the metric system, maybe putting furlongs and leagues in a tool tip?
- ams6110 8y ago
  As a writer, one writes for one's audience. It's a US publication, targeting mainly US readers. Using metric units would be less understandable. It's not like the reason high speed rail doesn't work in the US is because we talk about speed in miles per hour.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    Its part of the US attitude of ignoring modern engineering
    - mamon 8y ago
      I would argue that most of modern engineering originates in USA, with possible exception of automotive industry :)
      - solidsnack9000 8y ago
        Much of it has found a home here but it definitely didn't all originate here.
      - ams6110 8y ago
        US automakers have pretty much switched over to metric fasteners for years. My 15-year-old Ford is all metric. They sell their cars all over the world.
StreamBright 8y ago
"That will give France the most modern high-speed fleet in the world, and the trains will arrive during a critical period for the country’s rail systems." I think China has that.
- ggm 8y ago
  Japan apologises for <1min lags in arrival and departure time. China has much, and the train I was on was fab, and they have maglev too, but I don't think all the moment of force here has moved to China. I still rate JR east and JR west.
fabianhjr 8y ago
¿Anyone knows why SNCF/Alstom keep favoring two locomotives over an EMU design like the Stadler KISS 200? Seems like more passenger space would also help reduce per-passenger cost and increase efficiency. (Speed difference aside; the current Alstom Euroduplex does 300 kmph and the Stadler KISS 200 does 200 kmph)
- peferron 8y ago
  Alstom EMU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGV_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGV_(train) SNCF doesn't want it because they believe locomotives are cheaper to maintain and they want double-deckers anyway.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  Locomotive hauled trains are quieter, as the passengers aren't near motors or the vibrations they cause. As a passenger, I prefer them.
nerpderp82 8y ago
Quote: That doesn’t necessarily mean an end to SNCF’s dominance of high-speed rail. As things stand, most TGV lines don’t turn a profit but are made feasible by subsidies, paid by a state that clearly sees the economic advantages of an extensive high-speed network. Competitors would either need to make substantial savings on operational costs, or limit themselves to the most lucrative connections, such as the profit-making Paris to Lyon route. This sounds like a perfect way to have private operators take the profit from the cake routes and leave the subsidized routes for the state. Handing over monopolies on a region by region basis doesn't seem like it change much if anything.
- devcpp 8y ago
  That's why it's a monopoly. The region can tell companies "who can make these lines (some profitable, some less) for the lowest subsidies, while fulfilling these other requirements?" Then the private companies compete, one wins and has to serve cake routes as well as empty ones, because the contract with the region makes them do it. Everyone wants your region? Great, you can lower the subsidies, or even tax the company. No one wants it? Ask for more money from the state, or consider eliminating some useless routes. Then the monopoly part makes it easy to calculate the profitability of the package and get concrete offers.
  - atoav 8y ago
    But you could then just go, give the same plan to different competing teams in the public railway network and you will get a similar effect. Because over all the private companies will also have to carry the cost of a lost competition to their customers. I just don’t think it is good to give public infrastructure into the hands of any entity that has to generate profit. It is not a good idea for trains (look at the German Bahn where it now turns out they neglected infrastructure for years just to look profitable), it is not a good idea for water and not for cellular networks or internet (the German market is again a good example). If you have a monopolist it will also leverage the fact that they are the only one. They essentially will blackmail you by strategic problems that will fall back onto you as the responsible governing body. They will put lobbyists into every possible spot and suddenly you live in a world where the only people who understand railways are on the monopolists payroll and a politician should decide about a topic they have no idea about. And if put up too high requirements, everybody loses. In Germany the frequencies for 3G were auctioned for way to much money. How did the mobile networks compensate that loss? By essentially halting any infrastructure investment and changing the requirement from “has to reach 99% of the area” to “has to reach 99% of the households”. The effects: broken train infrastructure with 1 in 5 trains arriving late, the worst mobile network of Europe, the slowest internet of Europe. I am convinced a public train, mobile and internet infrastructure would be expensive — but I might get reception 10km outside of Berlin — I might be able to catch that next train and I might be able to get fibre in the middle of the German capital.
QuamStiver 8y ago
I like how Mr O'Sullivan saw fit to mention California in the first sentence. If he hadn't, I would have.
benj111 8y ago
"the train’s shorter engine (59 feet instead of the current 72) opens up as much as 20 percent more space for passengers" Does it? Why? The max percentage increase is going to be for the shortest trains, where space isn't an issue anyway. But then even ignoring that, does the driver need a platform? Why not have the two motor units overhang the platform?
- francilien 8y ago
  It was once tried at Gare de Montparnasse, but wasn’t too successful. Most of the TGV traffic is at Paris, where all stations in the city are terminus stations. So you’ll always have one power car at the platform and on the other side you are often constrained by signals.
- Markoff 8y ago
  i also fail to see how can you stuck 180 more passengers on 13 feet, can someone walk-in it to me? heck even if it would be metres it would still not make sense, that's more than one coach at least
IdontRememberIt 8y ago
The design of the alfa-x is so more futuristic and they build with earthquake constraints: https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00428/japan%E2%80%99s-shinkansen-moving-on-to-the-next-generation.html https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00428/japan%E2%80%99s-sh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2efe46N0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2efe46N0Y
Camillo 8y ago
> In 2021, France will be trying something completely new with its high-speed services. For the first time, rival companies will be allowed to vie with SNCF, competing with the national provider on major routes. Completely new for France, I guess? This has been reality in Italy for years: Trenitalia and Italo both operate high-speed trains on major routes. > In its double-decker carriages, moving around by wheelchair will be far smoother, thanks to platforms that can lift and rotate at the end of each wagon. Why would you even want to go to the upper deck on a wheelchair?
- apexalpha 8y ago
  The double deck means you have to either go down or up from the 'balcony' where you enter the train.
AltmousGadfly 8y ago
Italy has had an open-access competitor on high speed service for years: ItaloTreno. The policy of forcing national state railways to separate track management from train operations is essential in opening up high speed rail to competition and preventing cross subsidization of service operation (since it requires subsidized services to be done so in a transparent manner and not out of other profits from railway operations)
fyfy18 8y ago
Meanwhile, the UK is still trying to get trains to run on time... https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-timetable-change-schedule-commuters-disruption-chaos-thameslink-northern-a8673951.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-t...
- isostatic 8y ago
  Thameslink is a private franchise run for the government by a contractor to government specs. Northern's timetable problems seem to stem from overrunning engineering work by the nationalised provider, coupled with stock shortages, and an insistence by the government on getting rid of guards Admittably they don't help themselves by refusing to employ enough staff to run all the trains without requiring overtime, a hangover from the BR days.
GrryDucape 8y ago
Inouï in French is a well-understood word that means "unheard-of" or unbelievable. No French person would mistake it for "ennui."
throw2016 8y ago
The US does not have a rail and wider public transportation culture that is prevalent in 99% of the world. Predictably the discussion here will be preoccupied with the kind of 'metrics' that other countries that take for granted they exist and are run for the benefit of citizens do not need to have. That is a wide ideological divide. The US seems to want to run a business for 'consumers', not a country for citizens. Part of this culture has leaked to some countries via the classic neoliberalism playbook of demonizing government services and public infrastructure, defund, create chaos and sing the praise of privatization to transfer resources and business to the private sector. All these experiments have failed miserably to deliver better services, promised efficiency or costs savings. Notice the absence of economic studies and wider dissemination of these failures compared to the ever flowing 'economic studies' demonizing public services and government. No one to fund it. On the other hand public spends that benefit business like subsidies, bailouts, a wildly excessive military industrial complex do not generate the same ideological fervour. Think tanks, economists and the business press do not talk about inefficiency and size of the public workforce when it comes to the agricultural subsidies regime, bank bailouts, corporate freebies, the massive security state and endless wars and its attendant inefficiencies in the pentagon, NSA, TSA, in this case its 'grin and bear it'. Why does the NSA need to spy on everyone, how much is it spending, how many workers does it employ? How much does the TSA cost? Lament but make no changes. This is not how a democracy works.

161 points by Osiris30 8y ago

masonic 8y ago

You can do a lot with electric trains where electricity is cheap (75% nuclear generation).

Scoundreller 8y ago
Except when the transformer next to its central artery (aorta?) and maintenance facility gets too hot: https://www.thelocal.fr/20180727/fire-blocks-montparnasse-train-station-in-paris-at-height-of-holiday-exodus https://www.thelocal.fr/20180727/fire-blocks-montparnasse-tr...
- _fizz_buzz_ 8y ago
  Accidents happen. Not sure what your point is here.

l9k 8y ago

Related, in France as well: Hyperloop TT is developing, in Toulouse, the futuristic hyperloop idea: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/hyperloop-firm-unveils-first-images-of-its-new-test-track-in-toulouse.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/hyperloop-firm-unveils-first...

__m 8y ago
Not exactly something to be proud of. Also "The idea was envisioned by Tesla CEO Elon Musk in a white paper in 2013". No, it was hyped by Musk, the idea dates back to 1904
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous how much credit Musk gets for this idea. I remember one being a plot point of an old (70s-ish?) Larry Niven novel.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    It's an interesting phenomena that seems to happen all the time. Generic idea exists for a while, then someone proposes a more specific implementation and gets known for that, then people start rethinking those details and arrive at the generic idea again, but still think of it as coming from that person. Another example is how plain-old Merkle trees are now being called "blockchain": Satoshi combined them with other ideas (like POW) to arrive at Bitcoin, then other people started separating those off and got back at just Merkle trees, but still think of them as originating from Bitcoin.

l9k 8y ago

The author mentions the similarity between the name InOui and "ennui" (boredom), but seem to ignore that "inouï" is an actual word that means unprecedented/incredible/unheard-of. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inou%C3%AF https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inou%C3%AF

a3_nm 8y ago
Yeah -- I'm French and I had never realized that "inoui" was somewhat close to "ennui". In French pronunciation the two first vowels are really different ("ennui" in French starts with a nasal 'a' sound which doesn't resemble an 'i' at all, to French ears at least). Another point missed by the article is that in French "ennui" usually doesn't have the philosophical undertones that it has in English. Outside of a philosophical context, in French "ennui" (as a feeling) just means "boredom" and that's it. In everyday French you also use "ennui" to mean an annoyance or trouble, i.e., "avoir des ennuis" means "run into trouble", or "l'ennui c'est que ..." means "the problem is that..."
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > In French pronunciation the two first vowels are really different ("ennui" in French starts with a nasal 'a' sound which doesn't resemble an 'i' at all, to French ears at least). Yeah, I was confused when I tried to understand the connection they were trying to make. > Another point missed by the article is that in French "ennui" usually doesn't have the philosophical undertones that it has in English. Fatty liver is a disease, foie gras is a delicacy. ;- )
  - mc32 8y ago
    But we could say “fatted liver” and that would work, but of course food sophisticates need a more sophisticated term for their food to taste better.
    - frutiger 8y ago
      Side note: grammatically "fattened liver" should be preferred over "fatted liver".

ucaetano 8y ago

Worth remembering that France hasn't fared very well in rail competition lately: the French-Government-controlled Eurostar chose the Velaro train sets from German Siemens to replace the existing TGV-derived train sets. It sparked a national outrage (because a company controlled by the French government should, in their opinion, only buy French) and a lawsuit from Alston (who makes the TGV).

mc32 8y ago
If I were French and our rolling stock were competitive, I’d be upset if the government gave a leg up to the competition given the strong unions and jobs the TGV provides. It may save a buck or two but it also is a blow against local producers.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  You're essentially advocating for tariffs and "buy local" requirements. Not only they are bad for the economy, they're also mostly illegal in the EU. > If I were French and our rolling stock were competitive Well, it just wasn't as competitive as the German one.
  - mc32 8y ago
    It’s from your taxes (unless the Germans are donating from their coffers), so yeah you should have a local preference if it’s competitive (near as good or better). It adds to local economy and also staves off monopolization of producers.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      Nope, it is anti-competitive and bad for the economy, as it creates trade barriers and stifles innovation, as well as using your taxes badly. It essentially accounts to government subsidies for a certain company. And that's why it is illegal in the EU.
      - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

supernova87a 8y ago

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pressure is rising on them, and they think they need to branch out / cut off compartments of the business to make it better. But this is tinkering rather than addressing the fundamental issues (inability to fire people, change cost structure, etc. due to political interference). Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have. Just how much money-losing depends on the political environment and skill of the management. UK tried this sort of thing and it left everyone with a shittier experience, though they could claim that they successfully privatized the industry -- everyone knows that's a total lie. At least France has a history of pride in the speed of the trains, so that will keep things in check a bit. They'll pay through the nose for it though.

titanix2 8y ago
> It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. I think this is mandated by the EU. And it could be a good thing. I'm personally fed up to be treated like a thief when I forgot composting my ticket (which happen because there is not gate to access the rails) or when I could not buy it in the first place (some station doesn't have have vending machines). Also the price lottery for TGV tickets is infuriating (price goes from 14€ to 140€ for the ride I take the most) and the commercial strategy of the SNCF is to offer cheap TGV which lacks any confort to kind of punish you not buying the more expensive option. But actually I would even be happier if we import all the working staff from Japan and make them the whole thing working smoothly under a join JR-France company.
- ambicapter 8y ago
  For english speakers, "composting" here means punching a ticket. I never understood where the word came from, and I'm a native French speaker.

solidsnack9000 8y ago

While high-speed trains are struggling to gain a foothold in some parts of the world (looking at you, California), France’s superfast rail services are looking at a very active, more competitive future. SNCF’s new trains should help it meet the challenge posed by new competitors. Simply called the TGV 2020, these trains offer some clear improvements, as illustrated in the video above. For a start, the train’s shorter engine (59 feet instead of the current 72) opens up as much as 20 percent more space for passengers (740, as opposed to the current 556), while also delivering a high maximum speed of 220 miles per hour. It's great how this publication wants to inspire the US to learn from the rest of the world. What if they started by using the metric system, maybe putting furlongs and leagues in a tool tip?

ams6110 8y ago
As a writer, one writes for one's audience. It's a US publication, targeting mainly US readers. Using metric units would be less understandable. It's not like the reason high speed rail doesn't work in the US is because we talk about speed in miles per hour.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Its part of the US attitude of ignoring modern engineering
  - mamon 8y ago
    I would argue that most of modern engineering originates in USA, with possible exception of automotive industry :)
    - solidsnack9000 8y ago
      Much of it has found a home here but it definitely didn't all originate here.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      US automakers have pretty much switched over to metric fasteners for years. My 15-year-old Ford is all metric. They sell their cars all over the world.

StreamBright 8y ago

"That will give France the most modern high-speed fleet in the world, and the trains will arrive during a critical period for the country’s rail systems." I think China has that.

ggm 8y ago
Japan apologises for <1min lags in arrival and departure time. China has much, and the train I was on was fab, and they have maglev too, but I don't think all the moment of force here has moved to China. I still rate JR east and JR west.

fabianhjr 8y ago

¿Anyone knows why SNCF/Alstom keep favoring two locomotives over an EMU design like the Stadler KISS 200? Seems like more passenger space would also help reduce per-passenger cost and increase efficiency. (Speed difference aside; the current Alstom Euroduplex does 300 kmph and the Stadler KISS 200 does 200 kmph)

peferron 8y ago
Alstom EMU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGV_(train) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGV_(train) SNCF doesn't want it because they believe locomotives are cheaper to maintain and they want double-deckers anyway.
Symbiote 8y ago
Locomotive hauled trains are quieter, as the passengers aren't near motors or the vibrations they cause. As a passenger, I prefer them.

nerpderp82 8y ago

Quote: That doesn’t necessarily mean an end to SNCF’s dominance of high-speed rail. As things stand, most TGV lines don’t turn a profit but are made feasible by subsidies, paid by a state that clearly sees the economic advantages of an extensive high-speed network. Competitors would either need to make substantial savings on operational costs, or limit themselves to the most lucrative connections, such as the profit-making Paris to Lyon route. This sounds like a perfect way to have private operators take the profit from the cake routes and leave the subsidized routes for the state. Handing over monopolies on a region by region basis doesn't seem like it change much if anything.

devcpp 8y ago
That's why it's a monopoly. The region can tell companies "who can make these lines (some profitable, some less) for the lowest subsidies, while fulfilling these other requirements?" Then the private companies compete, one wins and has to serve cake routes as well as empty ones, because the contract with the region makes them do it. Everyone wants your region? Great, you can lower the subsidies, or even tax the company. No one wants it? Ask for more money from the state, or consider eliminating some useless routes. Then the monopoly part makes it easy to calculate the profitability of the package and get concrete offers.
- atoav 8y ago
  But you could then just go, give the same plan to different competing teams in the public railway network and you will get a similar effect. Because over all the private companies will also have to carry the cost of a lost competition to their customers. I just don’t think it is good to give public infrastructure into the hands of any entity that has to generate profit. It is not a good idea for trains (look at the German Bahn where it now turns out they neglected infrastructure for years just to look profitable), it is not a good idea for water and not for cellular networks or internet (the German market is again a good example). If you have a monopolist it will also leverage the fact that they are the only one. They essentially will blackmail you by strategic problems that will fall back onto you as the responsible governing body. They will put lobbyists into every possible spot and suddenly you live in a world where the only people who understand railways are on the monopolists payroll and a politician should decide about a topic they have no idea about. And if put up too high requirements, everybody loses. In Germany the frequencies for 3G were auctioned for way to much money. How did the mobile networks compensate that loss? By essentially halting any infrastructure investment and changing the requirement from “has to reach 99% of the area” to “has to reach 99% of the households”. The effects: broken train infrastructure with 1 in 5 trains arriving late, the worst mobile network of Europe, the slowest internet of Europe. I am convinced a public train, mobile and internet infrastructure would be expensive — but I might get reception 10km outside of Berlin — I might be able to catch that next train and I might be able to get fibre in the middle of the German capital.

QuamStiver 8y ago

I like how Mr O'Sullivan saw fit to mention California in the first sentence. If he hadn't, I would have.

benj111 8y ago

"the train’s shorter engine (59 feet instead of the current 72) opens up as much as 20 percent more space for passengers" Does it? Why? The max percentage increase is going to be for the shortest trains, where space isn't an issue anyway. But then even ignoring that, does the driver need a platform? Why not have the two motor units overhang the platform?

francilien 8y ago
It was once tried at Gare de Montparnasse, but wasn’t too successful. Most of the TGV traffic is at Paris, where all stations in the city are terminus stations. So you’ll always have one power car at the platform and on the other side you are often constrained by signals.
Markoff 8y ago
i also fail to see how can you stuck 180 more passengers on 13 feet, can someone walk-in it to me? heck even if it would be metres it would still not make sense, that's more than one coach at least

IdontRememberIt 8y ago

The design of the alfa-x is so more futuristic and they build with earthquake constraints: https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00428/japan%E2%80%99s-shinkansen-moving-on-to-the-next-generation.html https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00428/japan%E2%80%99s-sh... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2efe46N0Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2efe46N0Y

Camillo 8y ago

> In 2021, France will be trying something completely new with its high-speed services. For the first time, rival companies will be allowed to vie with SNCF, competing with the national provider on major routes. Completely new for France, I guess? This has been reality in Italy for years: Trenitalia and Italo both operate high-speed trains on major routes. > In its double-decker carriages, moving around by wheelchair will be far smoother, thanks to platforms that can lift and rotate at the end of each wagon. Why would you even want to go to the upper deck on a wheelchair?

apexalpha 8y ago
The double deck means you have to either go down or up from the 'balcony' where you enter the train.

AltmousGadfly 8y ago

Italy has had an open-access competitor on high speed service for years: ItaloTreno. The policy of forcing national state railways to separate track management from train operations is essential in opening up high speed rail to competition and preventing cross subsidization of service operation (since it requires subsidized services to be done so in a transparent manner and not out of other profits from railway operations)

fyfy18 8y ago

Meanwhile, the UK is still trying to get trains to run on time... https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-timetable-change-schedule-commuters-disruption-chaos-thameslink-northern-a8673951.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-t...

isostatic 8y ago
Thameslink is a private franchise run for the government by a contractor to government specs. Northern's timetable problems seem to stem from overrunning engineering work by the nationalised provider, coupled with stock shortages, and an insistence by the government on getting rid of guards Admittably they don't help themselves by refusing to employ enough staff to run all the trains without requiring overtime, a hangover from the BR days.

GrryDucape 8y ago

Inouï in French is a well-understood word that means "unheard-of" or unbelievable. No French person would mistake it for "ennui."

throw2016 8y ago

The US does not have a rail and wider public transportation culture that is prevalent in 99% of the world. Predictably the discussion here will be preoccupied with the kind of 'metrics' that other countries that take for granted they exist and are run for the benefit of citizens do not need to have. That is a wide ideological divide. The US seems to want to run a business for 'consumers', not a country for citizens. Part of this culture has leaked to some countries via the classic neoliberalism playbook of demonizing government services and public infrastructure, defund, create chaos and sing the praise of privatization to transfer resources and business to the private sector. All these experiments have failed miserably to deliver better services, promised efficiency or costs savings. Notice the absence of economic studies and wider dissemination of these failures compared to the ever flowing 'economic studies' demonizing public services and government. No one to fund it. On the other hand public spends that benefit business like subsidies, bailouts, a wildly excessive military industrial complex do not generate the same ideological fervour. Think tanks, economists and the business press do not talk about inefficiency and size of the public workforce when it comes to the agricultural subsidies regime, bank bailouts, corporate freebies, the massive security state and endless wars and its attendant inefficiencies in the pentagon, NSA, TSA, in this case its 'grin and bear it'. Why does the NSA need to spy on everyone, how much is it spending, how many workers does it employ? How much does the TSA cost? Lament but make no changes. This is not how a democracy works.