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What I get out of this is that while each of these issues may be individually dismissed, they together make for a very "non-premium" experience. I use linux my

What I get out of this is that while each of these issues may be individually dismissed, they together make for a very "non-premium" experience. I use linux myself, but when people I know try it out, they immediately leave after encountering problems with audio, dpi scaling, etc

hackits 8y ago
It's open source you could spend your time fixing the issues and collaborating with other source project's to bring a better unified experience for users for Linux. Yeah..... you've got `more` important things to do. Linux have all-ways been a hobbiest project. It your mindset when going into it.
baroffoos 8y ago
I have found its super dependent on what hardware you get, Especially on laptops. I always pick hardware that works perfectly with linux and I am left with a very premium experience but when using linux on bad hardware like macbooks and broadcom wifi everything just doesn't work right.
- marcus_holmes 8y ago
  I have a MacBook that is malfunctioning under MacOS (it's running at 60-80% CPU usage when idle, known problem, no fix available). I tried installing Linux on it, couldn't get it working at all. I have a Dell XPS15, specifically chosen because the XPS line is supposed to work well with Linux. Numerous problems, all related to drivers. But the main problem is that every time Windows updates it wipes out GRUB. I figured that my problem is that every laptop I've bought has been designed for a non-Linux OS. So I've ordered a Purism laptop, which should arrive any day now. Hopefully actually buying a laptop designed and built to run Linux will provide a better experience.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    I'm using a dell XPS 13 (one of the new ones) and it works wonderfully. I don't run windows on it so I don't have any issues with my bootloader and I saw advice on the internet to get one with no nvidia gpu so I got one with intel graphics. It really does feel like a OSX level premium feel. The only bit I am missing is fractional dpi scaling which is apparently on the way but turning on big text in accessibility mode works well enough for now.
    - jaabe 8y ago
      Can you plug it into a 4K display or all the shitty projector type things?
      - chao- 8y ago
        At work most of our developers run Linux. The hardware mixture is Dell (XPS 13, XPS 15), some Thinkpads and two who use System76. Several of us use 4K displays, and I can't remember the last time anyone had trouble with a projector. Maybe the older XPS 15 might have, once upon a time. It has an Nvidia GPU and so I want to believe it has been flaky at least once, but I cannot recall a discrete incident. All the rest have the standard Intel graphics and everything's peachy. Distros are all either Ubuntu LTS or Linux Mint with default DEs. I am pretty sure one fellow switches to a tiling WM some of the time, but I forget which.
      - pja 8y ago
        My XPS13 is plugged into a 4K display (thunderbolt -> displayport adapter) right now. Works fine. Can’t promise projectors will work, but I would expect a thunderbolt -> HDMI adapter will work just as well as the Displayport one does.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    >But the main problem is that every time Windows updates it wipes out GRUB. From my experience, this issue is from trying to use an MBR on Linux while Windows uses an EFI. I've never seen Windows mess with another EFI on the ESP. This issue is made worse by programs like unetbootin being terrible at using EFI.
  - robocat 8y ago
    I have an XPS15 (9570 i9 with Ubuntu 18.04.01) and I have hardly run into issues and certainly not serious ones. I am swearing much less now I don't use Windows so much (even though Windows was in a VM). If your problem is dual-booting Windows, then why would you dual boot? For games, get a gamer PC. For work, use a VM. It seems a little harsh to blame Linux for Windows killing your boot ;-)
    - marcus_holmes 8y ago
      Oh I'm not blaming Linux - the problem is definitely manufacturers not testing their machines for Linux. I'm especially mad at Dell because the XPS line is supposedly "Linux friendly" and yet not. Last time I buy a Dell. I'm travelling at the moment, so a desktop games machine is not an option. And I have to test stuff on Windows. But when the Purism turns up I'll relegate the XPS to games machine duty ;)
  - fyfy18 8y ago
    ThinkPads usually just work with Linux. I bought a second hand T470s last year, and nearly everything works without any issues under Linux. Even my TB3 dock (some Chinese unbranded device) just worked when I plugged it in. The only think that doesn't 100% is the fingerprint reader, apparently you need to setup your fingerprint on Windows first.
  - Sangeppato 8y ago
    The XPS 15 doesn't have a linux "developer edition", but it still plays quite well with Linux (even if it's less "plug and play" than the 13 model). It comes with Nvidia Optimus and that is still not supported on Linux (thanks to Nvidia) so you may want to either turn off the dGPU or use bumblebee. The HDMI port is wired to the Intel GPU so it should just work. In the future, just to be sure, I advise you to check the Archwiki: the most popular laptops have a page there, reporting all the working and non working stuff and eventually some work-arounds
- ilovecaching 8y ago
  Yep. Exactly this. If you get a laptop that a GNOME developer uses, chances are you’ll run into maybe two issues a year. But try to get GNOME to run on two 4K displays and an RTX. But here’s the thing. Linux has won. Desktop is a dying market. Linux is literally the most used operating system on phone and in the data center, which is where it counts. The DE has gotten much better transitively from all the work that’s gone into those other use cases. But we still have a gamer market that is incredibly proprietary holding up the middle finger to those of us who think proprietary drivers and codecs are evil relics of a less open world. If you really want to see Linux on the DE, boycott NVIDIA, or write them a letter.
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    > If you really want to see Linux on the DE, boycott NVIDIA, or write them a letter. I was watching a video on youtube (can't find it now) about gaming on Linux, and it suggested to update the PPA and install the latest drivers. (this was after I refreshed my desktop to be Ubuntu Budgie) So I did that, installed latest NVidia Drivers. Tried out some steam games, and went to bed. Next day I couldn't boot into the desktop, got stuck in a loop, couldn't remove the drivers and get into desktop at all. It completely bunged my computer. Apparently alot of people had similar issues.
    - godelski 8y ago
      This is literally my only (big) complaint about Linux. Video drivers just SUCK. I have NEVER had a plug and play solution for display from my laptop. I do expect to be able to plug in an HDMI cable and be able to give a presentation. And I expect to be able to do this with an nvidia card. But they have always failed me and I don't understand why this problem still exists (I would actually be interested if someone knows).
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        It's an Nvidia problem. Nvidia's proprietary drivers suck and they're nasty to anybody who tries to develop open source drivers for their cards. AMD and Intel GPUs have been flawless plug-and-play for years now. AMD plays nice with linux developers and you should give them, not Nvidia, your money.
- brightball 8y ago
  Yep, agreed. Whenever I tried installing on old hardware I had laying around it was always very quirky. From the moment I bought a Dell Developer Edition that was built specifically for compatibility, the experience had been fantastic.
- ohazi 8y ago
  If you don't want to have to think about it, the answer for laptops is to buy a thinkpad.
- bayesian_horse 8y ago
  I can remember plenty of "premium" experiences with Windows, too.
pnutjam 8y ago
Try OpenSuse, it has the best hardware support by far.
- cryptonector 8y ago
  Did you read the comment you were replying to, or TFA? The issue isn't even remotely just poor hardware support.
  - pnutjam 8y ago
    Your wrong, a good 70% is hardware in the article.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  This is another issue. Have a problem? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro. Have a problem with that one too? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro.
  - pnutjam 8y ago
    Yeah, and there is no dearth of low quality instructions on Linux. IMHO, Ubuntu is particularly bad about this. All I can say is what I use everyday with no problems.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- diffeomorphism 8y ago
  Why would it? Hardware support boils down to new kernels, mesa stacks etc and how many non-free drivers the distro wants to include. Opensuse (Leap) is not particularly cutting edge and is more restricted concerning non-free components than many other distros (e.g. why does it need pacman?). So, no. It does not have "the best" hardware support and no distro has "by far" more hardware support than all other distros.
  - 8y ago

hackits 8y ago

It's open source you could spend your time fixing the issues and collaborating with other source project's to bring a better unified experience for users for Linux. Yeah..... you've got `more` important things to do. Linux have all-ways been a hobbiest project. It your mindset when going into it.

baroffoos 8y ago

I have found its super dependent on what hardware you get, Especially on laptops. I always pick hardware that works perfectly with linux and I am left with a very premium experience but when using linux on bad hardware like macbooks and broadcom wifi everything just doesn't work right.

marcus_holmes 8y ago
I have a MacBook that is malfunctioning under MacOS (it's running at 60-80% CPU usage when idle, known problem, no fix available). I tried installing Linux on it, couldn't get it working at all. I have a Dell XPS15, specifically chosen because the XPS line is supposed to work well with Linux. Numerous problems, all related to drivers. But the main problem is that every time Windows updates it wipes out GRUB. I figured that my problem is that every laptop I've bought has been designed for a non-Linux OS. So I've ordered a Purism laptop, which should arrive any day now. Hopefully actually buying a laptop designed and built to run Linux will provide a better experience.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  I'm using a dell XPS 13 (one of the new ones) and it works wonderfully. I don't run windows on it so I don't have any issues with my bootloader and I saw advice on the internet to get one with no nvidia gpu so I got one with intel graphics. It really does feel like a OSX level premium feel. The only bit I am missing is fractional dpi scaling which is apparently on the way but turning on big text in accessibility mode works well enough for now.
  - jaabe 8y ago
    Can you plug it into a 4K display or all the shitty projector type things?
    - chao- 8y ago
      At work most of our developers run Linux. The hardware mixture is Dell (XPS 13, XPS 15), some Thinkpads and two who use System76. Several of us use 4K displays, and I can't remember the last time anyone had trouble with a projector. Maybe the older XPS 15 might have, once upon a time. It has an Nvidia GPU and so I want to believe it has been flaky at least once, but I cannot recall a discrete incident. All the rest have the standard Intel graphics and everything's peachy. Distros are all either Ubuntu LTS or Linux Mint with default DEs. I am pretty sure one fellow switches to a tiling WM some of the time, but I forget which.
    - pja 8y ago
      My XPS13 is plugged into a 4K display (thunderbolt -> displayport adapter) right now. Works fine. Can’t promise projectors will work, but I would expect a thunderbolt -> HDMI adapter will work just as well as the Displayport one does.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  >But the main problem is that every time Windows updates it wipes out GRUB. From my experience, this issue is from trying to use an MBR on Linux while Windows uses an EFI. I've never seen Windows mess with another EFI on the ESP. This issue is made worse by programs like unetbootin being terrible at using EFI.
- robocat 8y ago
  I have an XPS15 (9570 i9 with Ubuntu 18.04.01) and I have hardly run into issues and certainly not serious ones. I am swearing much less now I don't use Windows so much (even though Windows was in a VM). If your problem is dual-booting Windows, then why would you dual boot? For games, get a gamer PC. For work, use a VM. It seems a little harsh to blame Linux for Windows killing your boot ;-)
  - marcus_holmes 8y ago
    Oh I'm not blaming Linux - the problem is definitely manufacturers not testing their machines for Linux. I'm especially mad at Dell because the XPS line is supposedly "Linux friendly" and yet not. Last time I buy a Dell. I'm travelling at the moment, so a desktop games machine is not an option. And I have to test stuff on Windows. But when the Purism turns up I'll relegate the XPS to games machine duty ;)
- fyfy18 8y ago
  ThinkPads usually just work with Linux. I bought a second hand T470s last year, and nearly everything works without any issues under Linux. Even my TB3 dock (some Chinese unbranded device) just worked when I plugged it in. The only think that doesn't 100% is the fingerprint reader, apparently you need to setup your fingerprint on Windows first.
- Sangeppato 8y ago
  The XPS 15 doesn't have a linux "developer edition", but it still plays quite well with Linux (even if it's less "plug and play" than the 13 model). It comes with Nvidia Optimus and that is still not supported on Linux (thanks to Nvidia) so you may want to either turn off the dGPU or use bumblebee. The HDMI port is wired to the Intel GPU so it should just work. In the future, just to be sure, I advise you to check the Archwiki: the most popular laptops have a page there, reporting all the working and non working stuff and eventually some work-arounds
ilovecaching 8y ago
Yep. Exactly this. If you get a laptop that a GNOME developer uses, chances are you’ll run into maybe two issues a year. But try to get GNOME to run on two 4K displays and an RTX. But here’s the thing. Linux has won. Desktop is a dying market. Linux is literally the most used operating system on phone and in the data center, which is where it counts. The DE has gotten much better transitively from all the work that’s gone into those other use cases. But we still have a gamer market that is incredibly proprietary holding up the middle finger to those of us who think proprietary drivers and codecs are evil relics of a less open world. If you really want to see Linux on the DE, boycott NVIDIA, or write them a letter.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  > If you really want to see Linux on the DE, boycott NVIDIA, or write them a letter. I was watching a video on youtube (can't find it now) about gaming on Linux, and it suggested to update the PPA and install the latest drivers. (this was after I refreshed my desktop to be Ubuntu Budgie) So I did that, installed latest NVidia Drivers. Tried out some steam games, and went to bed. Next day I couldn't boot into the desktop, got stuck in a loop, couldn't remove the drivers and get into desktop at all. It completely bunged my computer. Apparently alot of people had similar issues.
  - godelski 8y ago
    This is literally my only (big) complaint about Linux. Video drivers just SUCK. I have NEVER had a plug and play solution for display from my laptop. I do expect to be able to plug in an HDMI cable and be able to give a presentation. And I expect to be able to do this with an nvidia card. But they have always failed me and I don't understand why this problem still exists (I would actually be interested if someone knows).
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      It's an Nvidia problem. Nvidia's proprietary drivers suck and they're nasty to anybody who tries to develop open source drivers for their cards. AMD and Intel GPUs have been flawless plug-and-play for years now. AMD plays nice with linux developers and you should give them, not Nvidia, your money.
brightball 8y ago
Yep, agreed. Whenever I tried installing on old hardware I had laying around it was always very quirky. From the moment I bought a Dell Developer Edition that was built specifically for compatibility, the experience had been fantastic.
ohazi 8y ago
If you don't want to have to think about it, the answer for laptops is to buy a thinkpad.
bayesian_horse 8y ago
I can remember plenty of "premium" experiences with Windows, too.

pnutjam 8y ago

Try OpenSuse, it has the best hardware support by far.

cryptonector 8y ago
Did you read the comment you were replying to, or TFA? The issue isn't even remotely just poor hardware support.
- pnutjam 8y ago
  Your wrong, a good 70% is hardware in the article.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
This is another issue. Have a problem? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro. Have a problem with that one too? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro.
- pnutjam 8y ago
  Yeah, and there is no dearth of low quality instructions on Linux. IMHO, Ubuntu is particularly bad about this. All I can say is what I use everyday with no problems.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
diffeomorphism 8y ago
Why would it? Hardware support boils down to new kernels, mesa stacks etc and how many non-free drivers the distro wants to include. Opensuse (Leap) is not particularly cutting edge and is more restricted concerning non-free components than many other distros (e.g. why does it need pacman?). So, no. It does not have "the best" hardware support and no distro has "by far" more hardware support than all other distros.
- 8y ago