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The Mate X is Huawei’s 5G foldable
- mariopt 8y agoI just don't get the prices. Samsung foldable: $2,000 Huawei Mate X: $2,600 Why are these devices so expensive?
- bsamuels 8y agostatus icon & recapture r&d in case they don't get popular. there's also a 5g modem which adds 2-300
- saghm 8y agoPrices that high will definitely hurt their chances of getting popular
- kryptiskt 8y agoMaybe they have a limited supply of screens and price them like this because they wouldn't be able to meet a high demand anyway.
- saghm 8y agoSure; I'm not trying to argue that they're doing something wrong here, just that a $2000 price "in case it doesn't get popular" is essentially conceding defeat on the "getting popular" front entirely.
- usrusr 8y agoThere are multiple kinds of popularity. Why wouldn't they go the desirability through exclusivity route?
- 0_gravitas 8y agoAnd then they go the way of the google glass, I'm still sad about those.
- rnl 8y agoNew technology comes at a price. The have spent billions on R&D and this is a way to get some of the investment monetized. It is likely to be a niche product to test the technology and the market. Most likely in a couple of years we will have foldable screen phones that go for less than $1000
- tw04 8y ago>The have spent billions on R&D and this is a way to get some of the investment monetized. That excuse works for Samsung. Huawei stole the tech. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/30/tech/samsung-china-tech-theft/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/30/tech/samsung-china-tech-theft...
- madengr 8y agoWas the Samsung display manufactured in China? If so, what did they expect?
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- legohead 8y agoI don't really go for the R&D argument. Look at iPhones, they have only gotten more expensive. They should be cheap by now using your logic. Hell, they are removing things more than adding...
- thisacctforreal 8y agoApple invests a lot into security and performance R&D.
- artursapek 8y agoThe prices are insane, both my laptop and tower PC (which are beasts) cost less than that. I think it's because consumers generally pay for phones in monthly installments... we have become trained to accept these kinds of prices because "it's just $100 / month!"
- markdown 8y ago> I think it's because consumers generally pay for phones in monthly installments... we have become trained to accept these kinds of prices because "it's just $100 / month!" Is this true outside of the west though?
- vertex-four 8y agoIt’s not even true outside the USA, never mind “the west”.
- phakding 8y agoI don't get it. Huawei reportedly stole the technology from Samsung and still their phone is more expensive.
- Zhenya 8y agoMaybe their display yeilds are a lot lower.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoMy guess is they expect it to appeal mainly in Asia where $2,500 flip phones are a thing. (Samsung W series - currently W2019)
- agumonkey 8y agoApple deluxe trend + market dynamics communication IMO
- bunnycorn 8y agoSo, the problem is Apple's... right...
- userbinator 8y agoIs it even rootable? If not, that's a huge amount for a device you don't actually own.
- drcode 8y agoMainly because a 1st gen phone like this will have lots of custom components inside that are probably machined in-house, which limits how many they can make. It then becomes rational to put a high price tag on it, to make sure they don't sell out in 5 minutes and to make the most revenue.
- Gaelan 8y agoI mean, if this thing replaces a high-end phone and a high-end tablet, the price is about right. Still, pricey.
- megaremote 8y agoWell, just go buy one of the cheap non-existant versions, right?
- Jach 8y agoApple long ago paved the way for selling decent hardware at a very high profit margin, even taking into account R&D. They're a trillion dollar company for it. Other companies of course want to replicate the success.
- bunnycorn 8y agoStop talking about Apple, because Apple is not in this. Also, there were other androids that costed more than the iPhone X. And no, Apple is not a trillion dollar company, Wall Street valuates Microsoft higher.
- Jach 8y agoApple is not in the foldable phones? Not yet. They are in the "sell decent hardware at high margins" business still, and have been long before the iPhone X. And competitors of course have longed to do the same, of course there have been other expensive Android phones. This all fits with my comment's point about a reason for high prices. You're technically correct, poor Apple is just an $815B company right now with MSFT at 851. Want to make any bets they won't exceed last October's $1T in the near future? Or do you have a point? https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/market_cap
- bunnycorn 8y agoApple doesn't make and didn't announce any foldable phone, and when that happens, if that happens, you can criticize them all you want. Apple's hardware margins are less than that of Microsoft or Google. If you are so certain of Apple's stock, you can put your money on AAPL stock. And if Apple is worth $1T, it's still undervaluation, because one can easily look at their revenue and see they are massively underpriced and that's because Wall Street can't stop making FUD against them, among their competitors paying for negative infomercials about them.
- powerapple 8y agoprobably they don't want people to buy it yet.....
- rkangel 8y agoThe only valid price for something is what someone will pay for it. They're priced like that because Samsung and Huawei think that there is a market for it. Time will tell if they're right, but I can see the logic. High end smartphones are already at the $1,000 mark, and all they have to differentiate themselves from the $200 models is some nice design, and a slightly nicer screen processor and camera - they're fundamentally the same item. Manufacturers search hard for differentiation on a commoditised space, and this is the first major bit for years. This is a high end product, aimed at the '1%' who can afford to a stand out device. Do you remember when iPhones weren't ubiquitous, and if there was someone in the group who had one everyone would want a go? That's what the manufacturers are hoping for.
- rchaud 8y agoA price like that tells me they're not producing these in very large numbers at all, probably in the low five figures max. Makes sense, as this is new tech and they are trying to understand consumer demand and use cases for the product. Also, they may want to avoid costly recalls if it turns out that the V1 hinge isn't as sturdy in real world use as it was in their tests.
- TwoNineA 8y agoGood luck getting more than two major Android updates on this.
- supermw 8y agoDoes it matter? By the time there’s two major android updates there will be a newer and better version of these devices to upgrade to. Let’s not kid ourselves, phones aren’t “buy it for life”.
- intopieces 8y agoYes, because it's $2600. Would you buy a computer for $2600 that didn't receive security updates after 24 months (or less?).
- scarejunba 8y agoNo, but I’m not the target market and neither are you.
- intopieces 8y agoWho is the target market?
- scarejunba 8y agoPeople who will buy first gen technology to show it off. Sort of like Tesla Roadster 1.0 owners.
- knolan 8y agoI wonder about the bend in these screens. How will long term use be affected by fatigue? Will we see something like LCD bruising over time?
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoYes, but that will be 3 days after the warranty expires.
- ekianjo 8y agoMost phones are disposed after 2 years so they probably factor that in.
- pwthornton 8y agoIt seems that these devices are targeting tablet users me than phone users, so one would expect that the lifecycle will be much longer. If you don't have a need for a tablet device, why not go with one of the much stronger phones? Samsung's and Apple's flagship phones are much better when you consider everything a phone should and should not do. I can see a device like this potentially being popular with someone who needs to carry a tablet with them everywhere for their job (healthcare and architecture are two fields where this can be true).
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y agoThese foldable phones are $2k plus. I hope they are aiming for multiple times the old life span. The current flagships are over 1k. I’m not upgrading for the next 4years minimum.
- djsumdog 8y agoThe type of people who will spend $2k on these devices will probably (sadly) not be concerned about the phone having more than a two year lifespan. Also in two years, this thing will probably be $500 as 'new old stock' on eBay.
- 8y ago
- tanilama 8y agoIt is cool. But I think it will probably end up as gimmick to wow your friends, but not a feature that you would use regularly. Definitely not worthy of the price tag.
- djsumdog 8y agoKinda like the HTC Evo 3D? There are zero 3D phone currently on the market.
- i386 8y agoPoor HTC. 3D phones, bitcoin phones - you can tell they are really thrashing in the market now that Apple and Samsung have it sown up.
- wjoe 8y ago"3D" phones seem to be making a comeback lately, if only in niche brands - see RED and Rokit. They claim to have made huge advances on 3D screens since the Evo era, and I imagine higher resolution and refresh rate would help.but reviews are that it's still pretty disappointing. Even if the effect was perfect I'm not sure it's something I'd care for on a phone.
- megous 8y agoWhile the dispay on the outside is nice, having a soft (bendable) material on the edge of the phone has to be prone to scratches, no? And then when you unfold, you'll have scratched middle of the display, which has to be the worst place to have the scratches. While not that nice, having display on the inside of the phone at least protects it from scratches.
- npunt 8y agoYeah I think the bend-on-outside seems like a much worse idea than bend-on-inside. Bendable already means the screen will be less scratch resistant, why make it worse?
- zahreeley 8y agoStealer company
- ilovecaching 8y agoI wonder what the chances of Apple jumping on bendable phones is. Apple has transformed into a company that lags in innovation and only makes safe moves. I wonder how long it will take for bendable to become “safe”.
- deytempo 8y agoI’m trying to think of a reason I would want to be able to wrap my phone around a pole... I’m happy with it being non foldable.
- sgillen 8y agoI see the appeal. Sometimes you want a small tablet sized screen but you want to carry around and use something with a phone sized form factor.
- fphhotchips 8y agoThis is why I want one. I like to carry a tablet to read books and take notes at the same time (Android multitasking + a bluetooth keyboard) in places (planes mostly) where my full laptop is a bit too big/too much overhead/doesn't have enough battery. Unfortunately, that adds weight, and it's another thing to keep charged. These seem like a great solution - if perhaps a little small for now.
- markmark 8y agoYeah, I'm a bit surprised by the comments like "who would want this". A phone that you can unfold into a tablet when you want more screen? It's awesome. Now I don't want this particular device, or the Samsung one, because the tech isn't quite there yet, but the second or third gen _could_ be amazing.
- Analemma_ 8y ago> Apple has transformed into a company that lags in innovation. At no point was Apple a company that was first in a product category. They didn’t make the first PC, the first portable MP3 player, the first smartphone (not even the first all-touchscreen smartphone), or the first smart watch. They won by jumping into these categories afterward and doing them better. Comments like this display an incredible ignorance of how Apple does business just to score cheap points.
- booleandilemma 8y agoIs there a way to disable data collection by the Chinese government on these? Or at least a way to toggle which government agency (NSA, GCHQ, etc) my data gets sent to?
- Dahoon 8y agoDoes it really matter? If you are in China, sure, but if you are a non-Chinese citizen you are better off having someone else than your local version of NSA harvest your data. It is not like some other nations police will knock down your door or put you on a watch-list that gets you anal probed at the local airport. I would worry a lot more about NSA, Apple, Google and Facebook (if you are American at least) than Huawei.
- d3v0 8y agoSadly, 'your local NSA' is probably working with other nations' NSA. It has been already mentioned before in the leaked documents that governments use other nations' intelligence agencies to spy on their own people 'legally'.
- pentae 8y agoThey are not working with Chinas 'NSA' that's for damn sure.
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- lern_too_spel 8y ago> It has been already mentioned before in the leaked documents that governments use other nations' intelligence agencies to spy on their own people 'legally'. No, it hasn't. No leaked document says that. Instead, there is a well known understanding for the opposite. https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-spy-you-spy-we-all-spy https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-spy-you-spy-we-all-spy
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- pwthornton 8y agoSince 79% of smartphone users use a case, how is this supposed to work out? It seems to be me your two options with a mobile device are: 1) Make it durable so that it can be dropped on a variety of surfaces without big concerns of dropping or scratching. This might be a lot easier to achieve if devices got much lighter (or go the Toughbook route and harden it). 2) Allow it to support a variety of case types that a user can choose This whole thing seems more like a prototype than a great idea. I think foldable and rollable computing devices have a future, but this doesn't seem fully considered. Although this one looks significantly better than the Galaxy Fold, which reminds me of the Homer Simpson Car: https://patrickwthornton.com/samsung-galaxy-fold-is-the-homer-simpson-car/ https://patrickwthornton.com/samsung-galaxy-fold-is-the-home...
- thefounder 8y agoI believe 79% of smartphone users are over-protective with their phones. What's the point to pay top dollar for a beautiful screen if you cover it with a cheap cover? You will change the phone in 4 years max anyway.
- MasterScrat 8y agoCounterpoint: I see people using phones with damaged screens pretty much every time I take public transportation.
- guipsp 8y agoI do not pay top dollar for a beautiful screen.
- fouronnes3 8y agoI wish I could not use a case, but my 5T is simply too slippery without it.
- 2muchcoffeeman 8y agoPeople use covers to personalise their phones not just to protect them.
- chx 8y agoI am very old school but if I want to fold something, I find the One Mix Yoga 2S much more usable -- a 7" 2-in-1 laptop, with a proper Intel Core CPU, PCIe SSD and 8GB of RAM. Oh and it's 670 USD... a quarter of this Mate X thing, or what.
- gainsurier 8y agoHope Xiaomi make foldable cheaper
- pcbro141 8y agoThe fold is not perfect. Seems they were careful with not letting journalists hold the device, only showing certain things on the display, etc. See 1:28 : https://youtu.be/NnO08HnZf10?t=88 https://youtu.be/NnO08HnZf10?t=88
- arthurcolle 8y agoHow does this compare to the Samsung Galaxy Fold? Is the Galaxy Fold "perfect" when it comes to visible screen distortion?
- pcbro141 8y agoI'm not entirely sure. Just from videos, I think the Samsung might be better. I haven't seen distortion in the videos I've seen. Samsung: https://youtu.be/-fcCQIdGpK8?t=175 https://youtu.be/-fcCQIdGpK8?t=175
- xienze 8y agoIt has a crease, Samsung just had the good sense to make sure the middle of the screen was black: https://m.imgur.com/TIbaeIi https://m.imgur.com/TIbaeIi
- arthurcolle 8y agoWow that crease is pretty glaring. For 1950? Pass
- drcode 8y agoPhysics dictates the the samsung fold likely will have a "cleaner" fold, since it is pulled taught in the open position, whereas the huawei phone is at its loosest in the open position. But in my view the huawei concept is far better better on pretty much any other metric (pending info on durability)
- lucb1e 8y ago
- netsa 8y agoIpad will be more cheaper in the future XD
- einverne 8y agoSeems I prefer a normal phone and a similar price foldable laptop for now.
- King-Aaron 8y agoA solution to a problem that doesn't exist
- alistairSH 8y agoAs a phone, maybe. As a small tablet, it’s likely easier to carry than a small e-reader or iPad Mini.
- shaklee3 8y agoPeople use tablets, and these can fold into a tablet. So I would say that it does solve a problem. I wouldn't want one, but it seems useful for some people.
- daenz 8y agoA problem that I now have, after seeing the solution. I've toyed with the idea of getting a tablet, but never made the leap because of how bulky they are. If I wanted a bulky spacious computing device, I'd just use my laptop. If I want a tiny computing device, I'd use my phone. This scratches both itches.
- powerapple 8y agoas a consumer phone, yes the problem doesn't exist. It might open door for better application or something we are not doing now. It creates opportunity. I can already see its use in enterprise environment with suitable application. I think there is a market for it. Once the technology matures, softwares will catch up and it will be standard. Still, I'd prefer a roller display than folded ones.
- markmark 8y agoPeople want larger screens but smaller devices.
- rovyko 8y agoI thought so too until I saw Westworld. As you'd expect, they use the device like a laptop, except it doesn't need a place to sit. Relevant scenes: https://youtu.be/qvrSUwqt6Mw?t=54 https://youtu.be/qvrSUwqt6Mw?t=54
- 8y ago
- baybal2 8y agoSteve Jobs make a joke about foldable phones, and those 2 actually made it... spending billions on RnD in the process...
- Gpetrium 8y agoThe cellphone market in developed nations have been somewhat stagnant in the past few years, so it seems that both Samsung and Huawei's foldable cellphone are looking to create a technology that adds a new level to the cellphone hierarchy. It is likely that both cellphones are not going to pay itself off this year when accounting for R&D (assuming technology hasn't been stolen), but the value of being seeing as the leaders in the industry (brand value) and the increased availability of the technology will likely drop the cost of fold-able tech and hopefully propel the industry to the next level. Whether these technological updates are true value-adder to customers remains to be seeing. We have seen people buy new cellphones yearly with a lot less changes to it. I also think that if someone is willing to pay 2-4x more for a foldable cellphone, they are likely to pay a couple hundred to a customized case or at least something that will protect their cellphones. (@pwthornton)
- kerng 8y agoWasn't there news last year that someone in China stole Samsung folding tech? Wonder if that is relevant with this new device that Huawei is working on.
- gman83 8y agoYes: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/30/tech/samsung-china-tech-theft/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/30/tech/samsung-china-tech-t...
- xster 8y agoI would totally not be surprised given how non-frowned upon the practice is culturally but I do wish the article had something more material to present than A alleges B of doing X. http://iri.jrc.ec.europa.eu/scoreboard18.html http://iri.jrc.ec.europa.eu/scoreboard18.html Huawei spends more in R&D than Apple or Intel so I wouldn't automatically assume everything they do is stolen.
- rorykoehler 8y agoXiaomi also have one in the works. At this stage the cat is out of the bag and there is no way to know who stole what by deduction.
- barbs 8y agoWas hoping a foldable phone would result in a smaller phone, not a larger one. Sigh...
- bruxis 8y agoI guess this phone/tablet is not intended to be used for video calls at all given how the camera hides on the back of the device in both use cases?
- ndnxhs 8y agoSo this is the new phone fad? I have never felt the need to fold my phone. It seems like the phone industry invents pointless changes just to show something new to get people to buy a phone again. Curved edges and screen notches come to mind.
- DennisAleynikov 8y agocurved edges were a marketing move for foldables by samsung. They started back with the Note Edge since samsung flagships are their main advertised and mass market product that demos to the masses their hw design supremacy
- rchaud 8y ago> I have never felt the need to fold my phone. What kind of analogy is that? I haven't felt the need to fill up a tank of gas every week, but I still bought a car.
- jamisteven 8y agoI do not see the point of such a device to exist. Not a phone, not a tablet, do we really need something in between the two? Tablets have had SIM capability for a while now. I anticipate in less than years time these will no longer be talked about.
- thefounder 8y agoI would love to have a such device. An iPhone X which transforms itself into an iPad mini? Yes, please! Definitely a better feature than some new colors(i.e rose gold), new emoji or glass back.
- MasterScrat 8y agoAs someone who carries iPhone + iPad mini on a daily basis I'd tend to agree. But won't having both within a single device mean either an iPad mini with crappy battery life or a much heavier iPhone?
- thefounder 8y agoIt doesn't necessary need to be heavier. For example iPhone X uses a combination of steel and glass to make it look/feel more premium. I would give up on that for a folding screen. It's time to focus more on tech and usuability again and less on fashion features.
- Veen 8y agoThe technology isn't there yet, but I'd love a Westworld-style foldable device that goes from a phone to a decent-sized display -- iPad and iPhone all in one slim device.
- danielbln 8y agoYou sound like one of the critical voices from the time when the iPhone came out. Is tablet and phone the end-all for form factors until the end of time? I'd argue no, they are but a momentary snapshot of current technology. Imagine this foldable thing a couple of generations in, not what it is today.
- etaioinshrdlu 8y agoA glass screen will probably never fold -- so how's the screen texture and hardness on folding phones? I'd guess quite miserable! At least Samsung can have a glass screen on the outside, more exposed to the elements .
- TaylorGood 8y agoSo these basically fold out to a tablet-size screen area, don't obviously accommodate covers and cost more than current smartphone prices? I don't see it.
- dotancohen 8y agoWhat kind of journalism is this? Seriously, are these articles neither proof-read nor passed by an editor before publishing? > The device is thin, as far as tablets go, at 5.4 mm, unfolded. Closed, it’s nearly double that, at 11 mm. 11mm is _more_ than double 5.4mm. > with a 19:5 aspect ration. Aspect ration? Are aspects now too precious to waste? > ...as Richard You takes the stage... > ...according to mobile CEO Richard Yu... Could we at least get some consistency in proper noun transliterations? There's so much more that I feel like I'm reading an article published by a middle-school student. If so, then he did a great job. If this is supposed to be a professional journalist, though, then he should go back to middle school.
- goatherders 8y agoPosting first is a big deal for news media sites. This story will be replaced by others today so no one will care that there were problems so long as it shows up first in the Google news results this morning.
- rorykoehler 8y agoSeems like a good use of machine learning to solve. Surely tools to auto edit already exist?
- jbrooksuk 8y agoSurely just a basic spell and grammar check is enough without over-engineering solutions...
- goatherders 8y agoMy company pushes out at least 10,000 words of content each week for clients and I would fire immediately anyone that let that rookie garbage go to a client. The difference is our clients pay us to be good at this. TechCrunch readers dont really pay TC writers to do anything.
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- acjohnson55 8y agoI'm looking forward to phones like these getting more mature. Screen size and pocketability are everything. This first generation from Huawei and Samsung is just step one down the path of what will eventually be a really compelling design.
- rchaud 8y agoIt's about time the smartphone market had some shake-up. Phones haven't seen major form factor changes in several years now, yet their prices keep ticking up. Neither Apple, nor Samsung can justify prices of $1000+ for flagship models when the benefits are so marginal compared to flagships of even 2 years ago. I paid $900 for a Galaxy S7 in 2016 and decided to import a Nokia X6 from HK for $300 instead of getting a new Galaxy. Of course, I'm not going to pay $1500-$2000 to be a guinea pig for this new form factor, but it's good to see that in a couple of years, smartphones might not become yet another boring shopping list item.