11 ms·

New York governor orders probe into Facebook access to data from other apps

410 points by tareqak 8y ago

minimaxir 8y ago
Direct response to the WSJ article published a few hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19226480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19226480 That was fast.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  I was at a local political meeting yesterday. This was the talk this morning. A lot of calls went from the State Committee and Senate to the Governor. Infuriating behaviour by Zuckerberg and Facebook’s employees.
- jzylstra 8y ago
  Outline'd WSJ Article: https://outline.com/ZUGZzz https://outline.com/ZUGZzz Tangentially related article, with demands made earlier this month, by Germany's Federal Cartel Office (WSJ): https://outline.com/Rwbzv4 https://outline.com/Rwbzv4 >The authority ordered Facebook to make changes to its terms of service and how it collects user data. Data collected by the social network from third-party apps and websites can’t be assigned to a user’s Facebook account without their consent. Data gathered from Facebook-owned apps such as WhatsApp and Instagram also can’t be assigned to Facebook accounts without user consent, and if consent isn’t given, the data can only be used within the scope of those apps.
politician 8y ago
nit, > Facebook is facing a slew of lawsuits and regulatory inquiries over privacy issues, including a U.S. Federal Trade Commission investigation into disclosures that Facebook inappropriately shared information belonging to 87 million users with the defunct British political consulting firm Cambridge Analytica. Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. It's too bad Reuters didn't get that part correct. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/02/cambridge_analytica_shutdown/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/02/cambridge_analytica...
- awalton 8y ago
  > Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. Not technically correct, but basically the truth. Cambridge Analytica declared bankrupcy in May of last year and the creators of that company created Emerdata and rehired many previous employees of Cambridge Analytica. Their HQ is even in the same exact building. They're just playing the shell game, really. "Oh no, we're not the bad guys, we are just mostly made up of those old bad guys and do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way with the exact same location as those old guys... But, as you can clearly see, we have different bank account numbers and a different company name, so we're not the same thing at all."
  - snarf21 8y ago
    Just like Accenture did.... not a new playbook but memory fails.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      If you're thinking of Enron, Andersen Consulting and Arthur Andersen were even before then pretty much separate entities and in some cases were competitors. Andersen Consulting formally completed the separation from Arthur Andersen and became Accenture in 2000, a year or so before Arthur Andersen collapsed in the Enron scandal. Disclosure: Worked for Andersen Consulting early in my career.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    The trouble is, it works. Depressingly well. Every story out there is about Cambridge Analytica, only a tiny proportion have been written recently enough to mention the phoenix. Yet they often won't, or give entirely the wrong impression like TFA here (defunct - oh that's a relief it's all over then). The number of old pieces that have had an update is so low as to be effectively none. So we have to wait for the next scandal.
    - awalton 8y ago
      > The trouble is, it works. Depressingly well. It does... if countries allow it. There was either some fear that this was happening or deliberate intent to keeping this from happening with the case of North Korea's sanctions - my memory's a bit fuzzy since the class I took where this came up some many years ago. E.g. Some unethical people would setup a black exports shipping company to ship stuff to North Korea, and then when they got caught, they'd declare bankruptcy, liquidate hardware to some shell or holding company, shut that company down, create a new legal entity, rebuy all of the same equipment from the holding company, and restart the same old behavior. While the courts waste their time chasing defunct companies, the bad actors get to continue their bad behavior. This is just a new version of that game that's even easier since there are far fewer physical assets that need to be shelved or hidden (perhaps even none if the servers are all in someone's cloud). Countries have largely stopped this kind of sanction-avoidance behavior by arresting the people in charge, ceasing assets to prevent them from being relabeled under the new company, and freezing accounts to prevent recapitalization under these kinds of shell corporations, in addition to requiring strict compliance around interactions with these sanctions countries and business entities. tl;dr: the CA folks should be sitting in prison right now, and Facebook and Google should be sanctioned and require strict supervision in the way it shares data with its customers, to prevent this kind of microtargeted-electioneering-as-a-service. Laws like the GDPR won't actually stop anyone from collecting onerous data, since it basically only requires people to consent to it, and as we've seen with EULAs, people are willing to click through anything if it gives them the end result of using an application. The time for a law like that would have been literally 15-20 years ago, before companies like Facebook could tell you what someone's likely eaten for lunch or Target could tell when someone's gotten pregnant by their purchase histories. Unlikely we're going to be unringing that particular bell now...
dillondoyle 8y ago
I assume this is other apps using FBs analytics toolset? Where I can send a custom event with {email:dillondoyle@gmail.com, data: {likes_dogs: 1, likes_cats: 0}} or what they are mad about is {weight: 120, has_hiv:0} ? IDK seems silly to me or maybe I'm in too deep and can't see the forest for the trees.
- atestu 8y ago
  I agree. It seems weird to go after the place that stores the data rather than those who collect it and send it over (the apps).
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- alex_chang 8y ago
  Yup. Next story that's going to come out is how Google is "doing the same thing" via Google Analytics etc.
  - detaro 8y ago
    Doesn't Google Analytics forbid passing actual personal user data into it? I thought that's how they solved the GDPR compliance issues, by explicitly declaring it as not fit for personal data (outside what GA collects and anonymizes itself, like IPs).
    - bduerst 8y ago
      Yes, their TOS specifically prohibits this: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/2795983 https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/2795983
- kekebo 8y ago
  if this is related to the Facebook Mobile SDK it seems that it is sending a lot of data home by default and that setting it up for ethical data collection isn't straightforward for most developers[0] [0] at least for android, based on this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc (35C3 - How Facebook tracks you on Android) edit: add video title
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chmaynard 8y ago
Ever wonder why Facebook is giving everyone on earth so much free software and processing power? They seem to be making money, how do they do it? [10 minutes of deep thought] Ok, we get it. If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. Edit: If a for-profit company offers you something of value at no cost, you or someone else will end up paying for it later. Advertisers pay Facebook for your personal data, and you suffer because your privacy has been violated.
- hrktb 8y ago
  > If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. You are explicitely asking people to think for themselves and understand what’s going on. From this point of view I think that last bit feels mantra like and going on the opposite. The same way “if you’re not the customer you’re the product” was relevant in some cases but has started a life on its own and could go continue a long life in a farm upstate I think. We’re in a world when there is genuine free and extremely valuable things that are not bound to weird schemes. Linux is free, VLC is free, vaccination is free, legal representation for people who can’t afford it is free. As you point out knowing why it’s free is crucial, and people should take the time to think bout what they want to rely on, instead of following some “don’t talk to strangers” kind of stopgap.
  - chillacy 8y ago
    I might nit and say that a lot of these things (especially vaccination and legal representation) are subsidized, the government or insurance is paying so you can get it for “free”.
    - vageli 8y ago
      > I might nit and say that a lot of these things (especially vaccination and legal representation) are subsidized, the government or insurance is paying so you can get it for “free”. This is not free except in the narrowest sense.
- 8y ago
chiefalchemist 8y ago
> "The report said that the company can access data in some cases even when the user is not signed into Facebook or does not have a Facebook account." I realize frivolous comments on HN are frowned upon but frankly this leaves me speechless.
- sp332 8y ago
  They're called "shadow profiles". https://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/18/1429223/facebook-is-building-shadow-profiles-of-non-users https://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/18/1429223/facebook-is-...
  - peterwwillis 8y ago
    How does nobody know about these? Shadow profiles have been standard in every large advertising network for 15-20 years at least. If your ad content is on lots of different web properties, you can "track" a user across each one, inferring data about the user one piece at a time, until you have a large profile. Then you use that profile to target ads/marketing. They never have to directly give you any data, but you can make money off of what you learn. That's the entire reason "tracking" on the web exists. To build shadow profiles for direct marketing. Nobody thought Facebook was doing it too?
    - chiefalchemist 8y ago
      One reason could be that FB has __never__ publicly (afaik) positioned itself as an "advertising network." It's also gone on record (afaik) to say it's __not__ akin to traditional (print) publishers. It has said time and again it is a social network, and it's going to save the world. Mind you, I'm not completely naive. I don't trust MZ & SS, but your expectation that every know and understand the inner workings of all the large aadvertising networks feels a bit excessive.
      - peterwwillis 8y ago
        I don't expect most people to know about it, I just find it odd when news outlets make industry knowledge seem like a secret they're only now revealing. "This just in: Door locks on most buildings can be easily picked, film at 11"
davidf18 8y ago
I wish Apple would install a filter on their data so that FB and others can't access our data at all should we choose. Thus, at least if you use iOS and MacOS with Safari you would have some level of protection. Cuomo is not very useful as a governor. I tried to take the #1m subway at Columbia University and the train was stalled in the station with huge crowds waiting for the train to be fixed (have a nice video). The governor Cuomo essentially controls our subway and bus system in NYC and spends money that should be used for subway maintenance on mega-rejects having nothing to do with mass transit. Hence, the subways are far less reliable than they were even a 6 years ago.
srkmno 8y ago
NY governor?! I guess all the pretence about this legal onslaught being anything other than a partisan political attack on Facebook in retaliation for the Trump election just went out the window.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  What laws has Facebook actually broken? Real leadership from the states would see data protection legislation with teeth. Outside of HIPAA it's a wild west and everyone you deal with is selling your data. Why should Facebook be singled out for data that was voluntarily handed over in return for a free service?
trumped 8y ago
yes, they access to personal data
joering2 8y ago
Serious question: what do people expect will come up from all these lawsuits? AFAIK Facebook has been sued over and over again since almost the beginning. None of these suits are criminal in nature so noone will go to jail. Even with billion dollar penalty these are penuts and usually gets the stock up now that investors know this specific case is closed. So really whats the purpose of all of this? Its like hitting Moon with millions of asteroids and whether craterred or not, it keeps spinning.
- SpicyLemonZest 8y ago
  The point of a lawsuit isn't to destroy Facebook or its leadership. It's to stop them from doing some specific thing, and get compensation for the damage that specific thing caused.
  - joering2 8y ago
    Oh I see thanks. So they only break law once get punished and never break it again. Because 0.000000005% of their revenue will teach them a lesson.
dade_ 8y ago
Playing dumb doesn't cut it. Prosecutors needs to go gangbusters. In the meantime, I am now alarmed enough to Kill Facebook with fire(wall rules). https://topnetworkguide.com/how-to-block-websites-using-pfsense-firewall-feature/ https://topnetworkguide.com/how-to-block-websites-using-pfse...
bleh123 8y ago
This takes me back to all those videos earlier last year claiming FB is "Listening to you through your mic to target ads" , it's most likely one of these third party apps doing sketchy stuff and sending interest data back to FB through the custom audience endpoint.
Animats 8y ago
The Reuters link is crashing Fennec F-Droid, the version of Firefox without the tracking. Anyone know why?
temp1928384 8y ago
Anyone else working in tech for the past few years having more frequent existential crises about what they have enabled? I have never worked at FB, but I've worked at a few well known yet somewhat controversial companies (in fintech, marketplaces, etc.) that I sometimes feel uneasy about.
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  Years ago, I used to feel happy that I am not working for a bank or a wall street firm. Now I am not so sure who is worse - wall street or tech companies, especially the massive ones. Gone are the days of "do no evil" etc, it is just a shit show out there. Problem is, for all this anguish, I don't know a way out. At least with banks, wall street etc, I can switch to a community bank or something. What exactly is the alternative to Android/iOS, for example?
- asark 8y ago
  Took me several years past school just to get used to the ordinary level of dishonesty and scumminess that's common to pretty much all business, let alone the worse stuff. Sometimes I think my parents (and, to be fair, children's media) messed up by giving me such a keen sense of right and wrong. Enough otherwise-decent people (like, almost all of them) seem to just look at you like there's something wrong with you when you bring this stuff up that I caved, since the alternative seemed to be becoming a living-off-the-land recluse, or a monk or something. But I still hate it. Still feel like I'm kind of ruined in some sense for not going the really, really hard route to avoid it all. Every day. Some jobs more than others, but even at the best I sometimes go home catching whiffs of something that make me think my soul must have stepped in some dog shit on the way.
  - forgotmypw3 8y ago
    Don't lose hope. You will find your way.
  - frereubu 8y ago
    It's difficult to tell from your comment how old you are, but I'm in my late 40s and it took me until well into my 30s to find the balance that works for me. It's difficult when so much work seems to require being unquestioning / amoral at best and immoral at worst. The only fixed ideas I had in my head were not working for defence or advertising companies (thanks, Bill Hicks). I now make a nice living running a digital agency that builds websites almost exclusively for third-sector clients (education, non-profit, government etc.) but it took me quite a while to build the skills that would allow me to do that. I can highly recommend starting your own business, no matter how humble, once you've gained enough skills to make what you do valuable to the kind of people you want to work with. The added benefit of working in the third sector is that I'm generally working with nicer people. I think this is partially just the kind of people the sector attracts, but also because the people who work in it aren't so conflicted about the value of what they're doing. So many people I've worked with in corporate environments get fixated on things like status and money, and it just seems to make them bitter and miserable. Along the way I remember one guy in HR in particular who got incredibly excited about me building a link between their HR system and their website so a job that was posted on their HR system automatically turned up on their website. I couldn't believe how small his world had become.
davix55 8y ago
For years it was common knowledge the extent to which Facebook collects data but only now it is fashionable to speak up. FB's lobby machine will make sure no action is taken, ever.
pweissbrod 8y ago
Is there some sort of a security site which rates android apps by their level of respecting privacy, something above and beyond the quality gates of the play store?

410 points by tareqak 8y ago

Direct response to the WSJ article published a few hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19226480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19226480 That was fast.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
I was at a local political meeting yesterday. This was the talk this morning. A lot of calls went from the State Committee and Senate to the Governor. Infuriating behaviour by Zuckerberg and Facebook’s employees.
jzylstra 8y ago
Outline'd WSJ Article: https://outline.com/ZUGZzz https://outline.com/ZUGZzz Tangentially related article, with demands made earlier this month, by Germany's Federal Cartel Office (WSJ): https://outline.com/Rwbzv4 https://outline.com/Rwbzv4 >The authority ordered Facebook to make changes to its terms of service and how it collects user data. Data collected by the social network from third-party apps and websites can’t be assigned to a user’s Facebook account without their consent. Data gathered from Facebook-owned apps such as WhatsApp and Instagram also can’t be assigned to Facebook accounts without user consent, and if consent isn’t given, the data can only be used within the scope of those apps.

politician 8y ago

nit, > Facebook is facing a slew of lawsuits and regulatory inquiries over privacy issues, including a U.S. Federal Trade Commission investigation into disclosures that Facebook inappropriately shared information belonging to 87 million users with the defunct British political consulting firm Cambridge Analytica. Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. It's too bad Reuters didn't get that part correct. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/02/cambridge_analytica_shutdown/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/02/cambridge_analytica...

awalton 8y ago
> Cambridge Analytica is not defunct, but rather changed its name to Emerdata. Not technically correct, but basically the truth. Cambridge Analytica declared bankrupcy in May of last year and the creators of that company created Emerdata and rehired many previous employees of Cambridge Analytica. Their HQ is even in the same exact building. They're just playing the shell game, really. "Oh no, we're not the bad guys, we are just mostly made up of those old bad guys and do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way with the exact same location as those old guys... But, as you can clearly see, we have different bank account numbers and a different company name, so we're not the same thing at all."
- snarf21 8y ago
  Just like Accenture did.... not a new playbook but memory fails.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    If you're thinking of Enron, Andersen Consulting and Arthur Andersen were even before then pretty much separate entities and in some cases were competitors. Andersen Consulting formally completed the separation from Arthur Andersen and became Accenture in 2000, a year or so before Arthur Andersen collapsed in the Enron scandal. Disclosure: Worked for Andersen Consulting early in my career.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  The trouble is, it works. Depressingly well. Every story out there is about Cambridge Analytica, only a tiny proportion have been written recently enough to mention the phoenix. Yet they often won't, or give entirely the wrong impression like TFA here (defunct - oh that's a relief it's all over then). The number of old pieces that have had an update is so low as to be effectively none. So we have to wait for the next scandal.
  - awalton 8y ago
    > The trouble is, it works. Depressingly well. It does... if countries allow it. There was either some fear that this was happening or deliberate intent to keeping this from happening with the case of North Korea's sanctions - my memory's a bit fuzzy since the class I took where this came up some many years ago. E.g. Some unethical people would setup a black exports shipping company to ship stuff to North Korea, and then when they got caught, they'd declare bankruptcy, liquidate hardware to some shell or holding company, shut that company down, create a new legal entity, rebuy all of the same equipment from the holding company, and restart the same old behavior. While the courts waste their time chasing defunct companies, the bad actors get to continue their bad behavior. This is just a new version of that game that's even easier since there are far fewer physical assets that need to be shelved or hidden (perhaps even none if the servers are all in someone's cloud). Countries have largely stopped this kind of sanction-avoidance behavior by arresting the people in charge, ceasing assets to prevent them from being relabeled under the new company, and freezing accounts to prevent recapitalization under these kinds of shell corporations, in addition to requiring strict compliance around interactions with these sanctions countries and business entities. tl;dr: the CA folks should be sitting in prison right now, and Facebook and Google should be sanctioned and require strict supervision in the way it shares data with its customers, to prevent this kind of microtargeted-electioneering-as-a-service. Laws like the GDPR won't actually stop anyone from collecting onerous data, since it basically only requires people to consent to it, and as we've seen with EULAs, people are willing to click through anything if it gives them the end result of using an application. The time for a law like that would have been literally 15-20 years ago, before companies like Facebook could tell you what someone's likely eaten for lunch or Target could tell when someone's gotten pregnant by their purchase histories. Unlikely we're going to be unringing that particular bell now...

dillondoyle 8y ago

I assume this is other apps using FBs analytics toolset? Where I can send a custom event with {email:dillondoyle@gmail.com, data: {likes_dogs: 1, likes_cats: 0}} or what they are mad about is {weight: 120, has_hiv:0} ? IDK seems silly to me or maybe I'm in too deep and can't see the forest for the trees.

atestu 8y ago
I agree. It seems weird to go after the place that stores the data rather than those who collect it and send it over (the apps).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
alex_chang 8y ago
Yup. Next story that's going to come out is how Google is "doing the same thing" via Google Analytics etc.
- detaro 8y ago
  Doesn't Google Analytics forbid passing actual personal user data into it? I thought that's how they solved the GDPR compliance issues, by explicitly declaring it as not fit for personal data (outside what GA collects and anonymizes itself, like IPs).
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Yes, their TOS specifically prohibits this: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/2795983 https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/2795983
kekebo 8y ago
if this is related to the Facebook Mobile SDK it seems that it is sending a lot of data home by default and that setting it up for ethical data collection isn't straightforward for most developers[0] [0] at least for android, based on this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc (35C3 - How Facebook tracks you on Android) edit: add video title

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

chmaynard 8y ago

Ever wonder why Facebook is giving everyone on earth so much free software and processing power? They seem to be making money, how do they do it? [10 minutes of deep thought] Ok, we get it. If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. Edit: If a for-profit company offers you something of value at no cost, you or someone else will end up paying for it later. Advertisers pay Facebook for your personal data, and you suffer because your privacy has been violated.

hrktb 8y ago
> If someone offers you something of value for free, politely say "no thanks" and run the other way. You are explicitely asking people to think for themselves and understand what’s going on. From this point of view I think that last bit feels mantra like and going on the opposite. The same way “if you’re not the customer you’re the product” was relevant in some cases but has started a life on its own and could go continue a long life in a farm upstate I think. We’re in a world when there is genuine free and extremely valuable things that are not bound to weird schemes. Linux is free, VLC is free, vaccination is free, legal representation for people who can’t afford it is free. As you point out knowing why it’s free is crucial, and people should take the time to think bout what they want to rely on, instead of following some “don’t talk to strangers” kind of stopgap.
- chillacy 8y ago
  I might nit and say that a lot of these things (especially vaccination and legal representation) are subsidized, the government or insurance is paying so you can get it for “free”.
  - vageli 8y ago
    > I might nit and say that a lot of these things (especially vaccination and legal representation) are subsidized, the government or insurance is paying so you can get it for “free”. This is not free except in the narrowest sense.
8y ago

chiefalchemist 8y ago

> "The report said that the company can access data in some cases even when the user is not signed into Facebook or does not have a Facebook account." I realize frivolous comments on HN are frowned upon but frankly this leaves me speechless.

sp332 8y ago
They're called "shadow profiles". https://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/18/1429223/facebook-is-building-shadow-profiles-of-non-users https://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/18/1429223/facebook-is-...
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  How does nobody know about these? Shadow profiles have been standard in every large advertising network for 15-20 years at least. If your ad content is on lots of different web properties, you can "track" a user across each one, inferring data about the user one piece at a time, until you have a large profile. Then you use that profile to target ads/marketing. They never have to directly give you any data, but you can make money off of what you learn. That's the entire reason "tracking" on the web exists. To build shadow profiles for direct marketing. Nobody thought Facebook was doing it too?
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    One reason could be that FB has __never__ publicly (afaik) positioned itself as an "advertising network." It's also gone on record (afaik) to say it's __not__ akin to traditional (print) publishers. It has said time and again it is a social network, and it's going to save the world. Mind you, I'm not completely naive. I don't trust MZ & SS, but your expectation that every know and understand the inner workings of all the large aadvertising networks feels a bit excessive.
    - peterwwillis 8y ago
      I don't expect most people to know about it, I just find it odd when news outlets make industry knowledge seem like a secret they're only now revealing. "This just in: Door locks on most buildings can be easily picked, film at 11"

davidf18 8y ago

I wish Apple would install a filter on their data so that FB and others can't access our data at all should we choose. Thus, at least if you use iOS and MacOS with Safari you would have some level of protection. Cuomo is not very useful as a governor. I tried to take the #1m subway at Columbia University and the train was stalled in the station with huge crowds waiting for the train to be fixed (have a nice video). The governor Cuomo essentially controls our subway and bus system in NYC and spends money that should be used for subway maintenance on mega-rejects having nothing to do with mass transit. Hence, the subways are far less reliable than they were even a 6 years ago.

srkmno 8y ago

NY governor?! I guess all the pretence about this legal onslaught being anything other than a partisan political attack on Facebook in retaliation for the Trump election just went out the window.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
What laws has Facebook actually broken? Real leadership from the states would see data protection legislation with teeth. Outside of HIPAA it's a wild west and everyone you deal with is selling your data. Why should Facebook be singled out for data that was voluntarily handed over in return for a free service?

trumped 8y ago

yes, they access to personal data

joering2 8y ago

Serious question: what do people expect will come up from all these lawsuits? AFAIK Facebook has been sued over and over again since almost the beginning. None of these suits are criminal in nature so noone will go to jail. Even with billion dollar penalty these are penuts and usually gets the stock up now that investors know this specific case is closed. So really whats the purpose of all of this? Its like hitting Moon with millions of asteroids and whether craterred or not, it keeps spinning.

SpicyLemonZest 8y ago
The point of a lawsuit isn't to destroy Facebook or its leadership. It's to stop them from doing some specific thing, and get compensation for the damage that specific thing caused.
- joering2 8y ago
  Oh I see thanks. So they only break law once get punished and never break it again. Because 0.000000005% of their revenue will teach them a lesson.

dade_ 8y ago

Playing dumb doesn't cut it. Prosecutors needs to go gangbusters. In the meantime, I am now alarmed enough to Kill Facebook with fire(wall rules). https://topnetworkguide.com/how-to-block-websites-using-pfsense-firewall-feature/ https://topnetworkguide.com/how-to-block-websites-using-pfse...

bleh123 8y ago

This takes me back to all those videos earlier last year claiming FB is "Listening to you through your mic to target ads" , it's most likely one of these third party apps doing sketchy stuff and sending interest data back to FB through the custom audience endpoint.

Animats 8y ago

The Reuters link is crashing Fennec F-Droid, the version of Firefox without the tracking. Anyone know why?

temp1928384 8y ago

Anyone else working in tech for the past few years having more frequent existential crises about what they have enabled? I have never worked at FB, but I've worked at a few well known yet somewhat controversial companies (in fintech, marketplaces, etc.) that I sometimes feel uneasy about.

justaguyhere 8y ago
Years ago, I used to feel happy that I am not working for a bank or a wall street firm. Now I am not so sure who is worse - wall street or tech companies, especially the massive ones. Gone are the days of "do no evil" etc, it is just a shit show out there. Problem is, for all this anguish, I don't know a way out. At least with banks, wall street etc, I can switch to a community bank or something. What exactly is the alternative to Android/iOS, for example?
asark 8y ago
Took me several years past school just to get used to the ordinary level of dishonesty and scumminess that's common to pretty much all business, let alone the worse stuff. Sometimes I think my parents (and, to be fair, children's media) messed up by giving me such a keen sense of right and wrong. Enough otherwise-decent people (like, almost all of them) seem to just look at you like there's something wrong with you when you bring this stuff up that I caved, since the alternative seemed to be becoming a living-off-the-land recluse, or a monk or something. But I still hate it. Still feel like I'm kind of ruined in some sense for not going the really, really hard route to avoid it all. Every day. Some jobs more than others, but even at the best I sometimes go home catching whiffs of something that make me think my soul must have stepped in some dog shit on the way.
- forgotmypw3 8y ago
  Don't lose hope. You will find your way.
- frereubu 8y ago
  It's difficult to tell from your comment how old you are, but I'm in my late 40s and it took me until well into my 30s to find the balance that works for me. It's difficult when so much work seems to require being unquestioning / amoral at best and immoral at worst. The only fixed ideas I had in my head were not working for defence or advertising companies (thanks, Bill Hicks). I now make a nice living running a digital agency that builds websites almost exclusively for third-sector clients (education, non-profit, government etc.) but it took me quite a while to build the skills that would allow me to do that. I can highly recommend starting your own business, no matter how humble, once you've gained enough skills to make what you do valuable to the kind of people you want to work with. The added benefit of working in the third sector is that I'm generally working with nicer people. I think this is partially just the kind of people the sector attracts, but also because the people who work in it aren't so conflicted about the value of what they're doing. So many people I've worked with in corporate environments get fixated on things like status and money, and it just seems to make them bitter and miserable. Along the way I remember one guy in HR in particular who got incredibly excited about me building a link between their HR system and their website so a job that was posted on their HR system automatically turned up on their website. I couldn't believe how small his world had become.

davix55 8y ago

For years it was common knowledge the extent to which Facebook collects data but only now it is fashionable to speak up. FB's lobby machine will make sure no action is taken, ever.

pweissbrod 8y ago

Is there some sort of a security site which rates android apps by their level of respecting privacy, something above and beyond the quality gates of the play store?