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I know, the quintessence of this article isn't about "quitting your job and do sth. totally different", but... From time to time, I feel like that. Just leave

I know, the quintessence of this article isn't about "quitting your job and do sth. totally different", but... From time to time, I feel like that. Just leave software dev behind, and become a truck driver.

aserafini 8y ago
Yes: there’s a guy who comes to the office once a week to water the plants. I regard him enviously as I’m knee-deep in a stack trace or combing logs related to a bug report.
- cylinder 8y ago
  Haha we have the same thing. Guy is so fit, has a great haircut, and an Apple Watch. He seems like the most content man in the world. This is in Australia where tradespeople often do quite well so it's not uncommon.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  My wife did this job - "office plant watering". It really isn't as great as it sounds or looks. The pay is about what you'd expect (ie - tiny). Lugging around jugs of water, trying to find a nearby working (and accessible) hose bib to fill them, or having to carry your own water in your vehicle (and hoping nothing leaks)...it was grueling work for her. The upside was you didn't have to talk to many people, not even your employer. She did the work, logged the time, and got paid. But the physical stress was insane, and has left her with more than a few issues (back and joint pain). I look at software engineering differently; when I'm down in the weeds, yeah it sucks - but I know that things could be much worse for me, for much less pay, and what I am experiencing really isn't that big of a deal. I get paid a lot of money for doing something that I find very easy to do; something that is almost second nature for me (I've been programming in some form or another for about 35 years, since I was a kid). I enjoy going into my work, I don't dread it. Many, many people would love to have that. I enjoy the fact that I do. I wish more could say the same about their own work.
ehnto 8y ago
I love software and always will, but I don't think it's the kind of job you can stagnate in happily. Like any creative endeavor. I think everyone has periods where they take a step back from code for a while, if not entirely.
- cntlzw 8y ago
  Programming is a weird kind of job. Imagine what you can do, all the possibilities. You can create something worth billions in your mind alone. On the other hand you are spending your life putting out fires. Software breaks. It always does. You day by day job is finding the flaw in the system. Not to mention that you will program other peoples requirements not the fun stuff one does at home. I started doing this with people. Debugging people. It is not fun and has started to make my life not as pleasant as it used to be.
  - onion2k 8y ago
    You can create something worth billions in your mind alone. No you can't. Every billion dollar product, or even million dollar product, is the result of a team of people doing many more things than writing code.
    - auggierose 8y ago
      Yes you can, and there are examples.
      - amelius 8y ago
        An example is not a proof that you "can" in general, because there could also be a large amount of luck involved.
        achievingApathy 8y ago
        I think what you're saying is that an example is not generally proof that just anyone can. It goes a long way in disproving that its impossible, however. There could be a large amount of luck involved in everything and we just don't know it.
jaaames 8y ago
Can anyone that has been in the industry for a significant period of time comment on this feeling? I'm 5 years deep professionally, 15 years as a hobby, and no longer enjoying software, at least in it's form consumed by a customer. Similar to a sibling poster, I'm envious of the landscaper, school teacher, or electrician. Has anyone left software and felt better off for it, or regretted it? Interested to hear any anecdotes or insight.
- pkaye 8y ago
  One of my hobby is doing small improvements around the house. I really enjoy the work that a electrician or carpenter or landscaper does. I fancy myself running one of those businesses but in reality I know the job can be grueling as you get older and the pay is not always great. Also due to major health issues, I think a desk job is the best for me. I think in reality as a developer if you get bored you should change employers and work on different problems.
  - ThePadawan 8y ago
    It's funny, but growing up as a shut-in kid into a career in software development, I think working at a desk is one of the worst parts about it.
  - VBprogrammer 8y ago
    Same, or possibly more extreme. I've renovated most of the rooms in my house which were in a bad state of repair. I've installed a new kitchen. Just got to finish the bathrooms. I do find that spending a weekend putting up plasterboard or tearing out a fireplace gives one a new appreciation for the mental challenges of coding.
- nf05papsjfVbc 8y ago
  Please do consider that school teachers have unappreciated jobs while they work with insufficient resources to build the future of our socieities. Just imagine "classroom control" for classrooms at different age-groups. If you feel jaded/worn-out/burnt-out by the software field, though teaching can be rewarding, please do try and understand what it entails before getting into it. Perhaps you already know all this and in that case please forgive my unsolicited advice.
34343434n 8y ago
yes, I feel this way from time to time, after 11 of years as a dev. think about becoming a mechanic, electrician, until I realize to get to the level of my current pay would take me years
Zanni 8y ago
How Starbucks Saved My Life [1] is a good read along those lines, although it's highly dependent on how much sympathy you feel for the author and his responsibility for his circumstances. I think there's a universal appeal, especially for knowledge workers, in the fantasy of living a simple life and doing tangible work with immediate benefits. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WCWUVS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WCWUVS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
htanirs 8y ago
>> From time to time, I feel like that. Just leave software dev behind, and become a truck driver. I have the exact thoughts sometimes. And I ask myself why truck driver. Maybe it represents the opposite of software career. More work in real world vs virtual. Be outside vs stuck in cubicle. Perceived freedom and independence vs managing self / team / customer. Work is restricted to a day vs work piling up. Not carrying the work home vs being switched on always. Less expectation vs imposter syndrome casual interactions vs formal communication Truck driving as a career has its own challenges. But my mind perceives it to be a better choice. Grass always looks greener on the other side.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  And I ask myself why truck driver. If you are very visual-spatial, passively taking in scenery while driving feeds the same need as website design, basically.
  - killjoywashere 8y ago
    My cousin is a truck driver. It's mainly a miserable existence, sleeping in the cab on long haul jobs across the Great Plains. He sees his family every other week. For him it's just enough better than his previous job, which was getting shot at in Afghanistan. His dead buddies are tattooed on his arm as a reminder. If you can do what you do, and chose to drive a truck instead, I suspect he would question your judgement.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      I was addressing (one factor in) why programmers might fantasize about trucking when they are feeling fed up. Presumably, if they are fantasizing about getting a commercial driver's license and driving a truck, they already drive a car. So some part of their brain likely recognizes that driving is a passive means to meet visual-spatial needs that are likely being met with more effort in some sense currently. I'm not a programmer. I also no longer drive. I gave up my car more than a decade ago and my driver's license more than five years ago. I'm just someone who has thought a lot about how brain wiring impacts personal preferences and life choices. I enjoy discussing that when opportunity arises.
baxtr 8y ago
I went skiing with my family recently. As a gimmick we went to a nearby barn where they had a carpenter’s shop. At first I was reluctant to go. But then I got into kind of a flow when I was working on the woods, grinding. I started sweating. There I felt for the first time: we are not made to sit in front of a screen for 8 hrs. At least for some days in the week I’d love to do some physical labor.
- marttt 8y ago
  I drifted about 2 years ago from white collar / "creative" work to forest maintenance. Not tree logging, but taking care of growing forest and planting trees. I'm in Eastern Europe, so the plan was to spend the warm season entirely outdoors and focus on "mental" work during winter when the available forestry jobs are not to my liking. (I've developed tinnitus -- constant ringing in my ears --, so I decided not to work with gas-powered brush cutters or other kinds of machinery any more. Luckily a fraction of forest maintaining can still be done using hand tools, mostly swedish or brush axes, but scythes also work well.) I'm currently mostly at home with kids, but the general feeling is that I just would not want to work indoors any more. For my preferred hand labour the wages are tiny around here (IMHO not so when you're OK working with brush cutters, although some might disagree with that). But the mental and physical balance I get from being in the forest every day, rain or shine, tends to outweigh that. So as a parent it's surely a complicated decision as to what to do after we send our youngest off to kindergarten. In particular, planting trees or cleaning treelings from weeds using a scythe could be a damn perfect job for every physically fit loner-introvert. Here's a movie about tree planting in Canada (where this is a huge industry, isn't it?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxR02N-Sauk&t=870s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxR02N-Sauk&t=870s And here's an inspiring guy, forest keeper, scythe mowing enthusiast and witty documentary film maker Simon from the UK. Yep, I want to be just like him when I grow up. If you're interested in traditional tools and manual labour in the wilderness, be sure to check out his entire Youtube channel. Great movies about scythe mower vs tractor competition etc. :) https://youtu.be/yvRJAtPWBCY?t=307 https://youtu.be/yvRJAtPWBCY?t=307 Ah, wonderful things, considering the current shitty-dirty-snowy March-like weather in Estonia.
  - metallurgy 8y ago
Agnosco 8y ago
I've also thought about this many times. By coincidence, my closest friends all told about similar thoughts at a gathering recently. It was interesting to hear what people wanted to do, if they wanted to change from their, now established careers. I myself would take on metalworking and/or blacksmithing. I like the idea of working with milling, threading and cutting metals as well as welding. I also think that it is very easy to be romantic about these things. It is probably better to understand how you could turn some of these things into hobbies and then get a bit of both worlds.
- cylinder 8y ago
  Isn't metalworking pretty lucrative? I think generally you can setup a shop and make a good living.
  - ken 8y ago
    Based on my small sample of friends: no, it's really not. It used to be, but these days there's too many other options for cheap and strong materials, and places and methods to get parts made. There's definitely ways to position yourself to make good money, especially if you have connections and experience, but it's certainly not as simple as "set up a shop and make a good living".
  - xkcd-sucks 8y ago
    If you can get contract jobs for aerospace, petroleum etc. then yes. For example, short order prototyping in aerospace and repairs in petroleum. Kind of like getting a programming related job, it takes some networking and reputation. Custom work for cars/motorcycles can also be good with networking and reputation. Other than that, it's basically being the cheap mechanic that can fabricate new parts instead of buying them. Which is not good in the good-vs-evil sense, but not so lucrative.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  > I like the idea of working with milling, threading and cutting metals as well as welding. I do this as a part of one of my hobbies (robotics). It's really not that fun: It's dirty, smelly, hot, and sometimes can be dangerous. You will get cut. You will get gouged. You will bleed. You will be burned. Not always, but it will happen occasionally. Ideally, that's all the worst that will happen. I've never worked with a metal lathe; I haven't had the need to yet. But I do have access to one. That is the one of a metal shop's tools which you need to be very respectful and mindful about being around and working with. Depending on the size of the machine (the one I have access to isn't very large), it can do everything from maim you severely, to killing you - and it won't care. It'll barely even slow down. Not trying to scare you about metal working, but realize it isn't roses, either. It can be very satisfying to make something out of metal and know you did that. But you need to understand what the price can be - even if you are careful and wearing all the necessary safety equipment. Oh - and never wear gloves or rings (or necklaces, ties, long hair, etc) around things like mills or lathes - really bad to do should things go wrong. But do wear heavy boots, denim jeans (and all natural fiber clothing period), and gloves (plus other PPE like goggles, face shield, etc) when grinding, cutting, or welding - sparks and molten slag/metal are not fun when they hit bare skin (or burn thru your sneakers - ask me how I know).
kabouseng 8y ago
I don't believe this is specific to software dev. I postulate that this feeling of yours is the route cause of what we call the midlife crisis. When you are young, you have all the possibilities of what to do with your life. Methaphorically all the open doors of possibility. But as you progress with your life you have to make decisions about what do you want to do, and as you walk through some doors you close most other doors. For example by choosing to become a software dev, you most certainly wont become a doctor, lawyer, cook, house builder or truck driver, although all these options were open to you a couple of years back, now those doors are mostly closed. And it is this feeling of lost possibilities that you might be feeling.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Totally agree, and am inclined to agree it may be the root cause of many a midlife crisis. I could go back to uni, take on a ton of debt, and after retraining find few want a late fifties junior. Chances are I'd never pay off the student debts before retirement either, unless I get really lucky. A direct into the job route will probably meet just as much resistance to a mid fifties starter. Foreign Legion, Police and Air Force all think I'm too old now. That smell is from all those burnt bridges. Yet 40s and 50s are when many decide they've had enough and want something more fulfilling, find limited choice, and end up with a self employed micro business. I suspect this is not what they wished for in many cases, but just what's left.
  - maigret 8y ago
    Interesting point of view, in most of Europe you'd not get in debt at all for that. Finding a job as a beginner would be as hard though. In the age of Internet though, it's never too hard to learn something new for free. Also, you can still try another occupation during the week-ends. You get to learn and experience something new while volunteering or making additional money, and after all you either see that your existing job is better, or that you want to make a change, being trained and knowledgeable of why you want to switch.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
snarf21 8y ago
We've all been there. I would bet that after a year of sitting in traffic, getting cut off by people texting and having to hold your pee for 6 hours for less pay that software will look pretty amazing. I think that is why it is so important for everyone to have a hobby that is not software. We all need a break from life and something to look forward to. Most devs would be happier if they just treat work as work. Turn off email and slack and all the other nonsense when you aren't at work. It can wait until tomorrow. Spend your free time taking care of you.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  As an employed SE (been at it for 25+ years), I actually enjoy programming at home. But the key is not doing it with the idea that I will make money from what I am working on, or attempting it as some kind of "side gig". My programming at home is strictly either for my own edification, to solve a problem or provide a solution for a personal need I have, or to simply have some "fun time" playing with code and my computer. For physical stuff, I also play around with hobby-level robotics - which can be anything from small desktop junk and soldering, to building much larger contraptions at my friend's home metalworking shop (he has the tools and space I don't). There doesn't have to be a reason or "need" to turn it off at the end of the day, unless you really don't enjoy it - but I would question why you are doing a job you don't enjoy (yes, I know this is something many people struggle with; most jobs aren't enjoyable - but creative jobs should be enjoyable, at least that's a hope - then again, I've heard of people being software engineers, good at their work, who absolutely hated it, but did it only for the money).
swsieber 8y ago
Please not a truck driver. I get what you mean, but truck drivers are a terrible example because they are often (literally) criminally overworked.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Ha! You're talking to software professionals here.
d-sc 8y ago
No offense intended here. I have a commercial drivers license and have put a bit of time in driving a truck as a summer job after high school. It sucks. Society basically treats trucks as outcast from the nicer places of our communities. Truck stops are full of chemicals and unhealthy food and anything nicer is barely reachable when you are 75 feet long. 8 hours of coding with the chance of running at the end of the day is much better. I also did a bit of paid software dev after high school, looking at screens isn’t the best, but the freedom to integrate with society is well worth it. (I ended up studying mechanical engineering in college and will graduate in May)
- burgerzzz 8y ago
  I don't know. I've been in software development professionally for over a decade now, and there are days when the money doesn't seem worth it and I look at construction workers with envy.
  - SZJX 8y ago
    A temporary escape from what you might have been a little burnt out from could be nice. Wanting to turn that into a new permanent new profession would be quite ridiculous.
  - d-sc 8y ago
    You have a fair and understandable point. Here’s my perspective as someone who has been proximate to both industries. My parents ran a construction company. One day a guy showed up for his first day of work. By virtue of the project’s schedule at that point, a trench needed to be dug 3ft wide by 5ft deep by 20 ft long. There were buried utilies nearby, thus machinery would have been risky. Therefore on Chuck’s first day of work he dug a tench by hand in the 100+ degree sun(By virtue of necessity). That’s a pretty anecdotal, albiet harsh, case. If you’re smart about riding the ups and downs you can make decent money, but as an industry it’s pretty hard on its workers. I have friends who work construction to make money during college. While I am worried someone moved the AC from 68->72, they are breaking their backs pouring cement and consuming illicit drugs to block the back pain.

aserafini 8y ago

Yes: there’s a guy who comes to the office once a week to water the plants. I regard him enviously as I’m knee-deep in a stack trace or combing logs related to a bug report.

cylinder 8y ago
Haha we have the same thing. Guy is so fit, has a great haircut, and an Apple Watch. He seems like the most content man in the world. This is in Australia where tradespeople often do quite well so it's not uncommon.
cr0sh 8y ago
My wife did this job - "office plant watering". It really isn't as great as it sounds or looks. The pay is about what you'd expect (ie - tiny). Lugging around jugs of water, trying to find a nearby working (and accessible) hose bib to fill them, or having to carry your own water in your vehicle (and hoping nothing leaks)...it was grueling work for her. The upside was you didn't have to talk to many people, not even your employer. She did the work, logged the time, and got paid. But the physical stress was insane, and has left her with more than a few issues (back and joint pain). I look at software engineering differently; when I'm down in the weeds, yeah it sucks - but I know that things could be much worse for me, for much less pay, and what I am experiencing really isn't that big of a deal. I get paid a lot of money for doing something that I find very easy to do; something that is almost second nature for me (I've been programming in some form or another for about 35 years, since I was a kid). I enjoy going into my work, I don't dread it. Many, many people would love to have that. I enjoy the fact that I do. I wish more could say the same about their own work.

ehnto 8y ago

I love software and always will, but I don't think it's the kind of job you can stagnate in happily. Like any creative endeavor. I think everyone has periods where they take a step back from code for a while, if not entirely.

cntlzw 8y ago
Programming is a weird kind of job. Imagine what you can do, all the possibilities. You can create something worth billions in your mind alone. On the other hand you are spending your life putting out fires. Software breaks. It always does. You day by day job is finding the flaw in the system. Not to mention that you will program other peoples requirements not the fun stuff one does at home. I started doing this with people. Debugging people. It is not fun and has started to make my life not as pleasant as it used to be.
- onion2k 8y ago
  You can create something worth billions in your mind alone. No you can't. Every billion dollar product, or even million dollar product, is the result of a team of people doing many more things than writing code.
  - auggierose 8y ago
    Yes you can, and there are examples.
    - amelius 8y ago
      An example is not a proof that you "can" in general, because there could also be a large amount of luck involved.
      - achievingApathy 8y ago
        I think what you're saying is that an example is not generally proof that just anyone can. It goes a long way in disproving that its impossible, however. There could be a large amount of luck involved in everything and we just don't know it.

jaaames 8y ago

Can anyone that has been in the industry for a significant period of time comment on this feeling? I'm 5 years deep professionally, 15 years as a hobby, and no longer enjoying software, at least in it's form consumed by a customer. Similar to a sibling poster, I'm envious of the landscaper, school teacher, or electrician. Has anyone left software and felt better off for it, or regretted it? Interested to hear any anecdotes or insight.

pkaye 8y ago
One of my hobby is doing small improvements around the house. I really enjoy the work that a electrician or carpenter or landscaper does. I fancy myself running one of those businesses but in reality I know the job can be grueling as you get older and the pay is not always great. Also due to major health issues, I think a desk job is the best for me. I think in reality as a developer if you get bored you should change employers and work on different problems.
- ThePadawan 8y ago
  It's funny, but growing up as a shut-in kid into a career in software development, I think working at a desk is one of the worst parts about it.
- VBprogrammer 8y ago
  Same, or possibly more extreme. I've renovated most of the rooms in my house which were in a bad state of repair. I've installed a new kitchen. Just got to finish the bathrooms. I do find that spending a weekend putting up plasterboard or tearing out a fireplace gives one a new appreciation for the mental challenges of coding.
nf05papsjfVbc 8y ago
Please do consider that school teachers have unappreciated jobs while they work with insufficient resources to build the future of our socieities. Just imagine "classroom control" for classrooms at different age-groups. If you feel jaded/worn-out/burnt-out by the software field, though teaching can be rewarding, please do try and understand what it entails before getting into it. Perhaps you already know all this and in that case please forgive my unsolicited advice.

34343434n 8y ago

yes, I feel this way from time to time, after 11 of years as a dev. think about becoming a mechanic, electrician, until I realize to get to the level of my current pay would take me years

Zanni 8y ago

How Starbucks Saved My Life [1] is a good read along those lines, although it's highly dependent on how much sympathy you feel for the author and his responsibility for his circumstances. I think there's a universal appeal, especially for knowledge workers, in the fantasy of living a simple life and doing tangible work with immediate benefits. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WCWUVS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WCWUVS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

htanirs 8y ago

>> From time to time, I feel like that. Just leave software dev behind, and become a truck driver. I have the exact thoughts sometimes. And I ask myself why truck driver. Maybe it represents the opposite of software career. More work in real world vs virtual. Be outside vs stuck in cubicle. Perceived freedom and independence vs managing self / team / customer. Work is restricted to a day vs work piling up. Not carrying the work home vs being switched on always. Less expectation vs imposter syndrome casual interactions vs formal communication Truck driving as a career has its own challenges. But my mind perceives it to be a better choice. Grass always looks greener on the other side.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
And I ask myself why truck driver. If you are very visual-spatial, passively taking in scenery while driving feeds the same need as website design, basically.
- killjoywashere 8y ago
  My cousin is a truck driver. It's mainly a miserable existence, sleeping in the cab on long haul jobs across the Great Plains. He sees his family every other week. For him it's just enough better than his previous job, which was getting shot at in Afghanistan. His dead buddies are tattooed on his arm as a reminder. If you can do what you do, and chose to drive a truck instead, I suspect he would question your judgement.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I was addressing (one factor in) why programmers might fantasize about trucking when they are feeling fed up. Presumably, if they are fantasizing about getting a commercial driver's license and driving a truck, they already drive a car. So some part of their brain likely recognizes that driving is a passive means to meet visual-spatial needs that are likely being met with more effort in some sense currently. I'm not a programmer. I also no longer drive. I gave up my car more than a decade ago and my driver's license more than five years ago. I'm just someone who has thought a lot about how brain wiring impacts personal preferences and life choices. I enjoy discussing that when opportunity arises.

baxtr 8y ago

I went skiing with my family recently. As a gimmick we went to a nearby barn where they had a carpenter’s shop. At first I was reluctant to go. But then I got into kind of a flow when I was working on the woods, grinding. I started sweating. There I felt for the first time: we are not made to sit in front of a screen for 8 hrs. At least for some days in the week I’d love to do some physical labor.

marttt 8y ago
I drifted about 2 years ago from white collar / "creative" work to forest maintenance. Not tree logging, but taking care of growing forest and planting trees. I'm in Eastern Europe, so the plan was to spend the warm season entirely outdoors and focus on "mental" work during winter when the available forestry jobs are not to my liking. (I've developed tinnitus -- constant ringing in my ears --, so I decided not to work with gas-powered brush cutters or other kinds of machinery any more. Luckily a fraction of forest maintaining can still be done using hand tools, mostly swedish or brush axes, but scythes also work well.) I'm currently mostly at home with kids, but the general feeling is that I just would not want to work indoors any more. For my preferred hand labour the wages are tiny around here (IMHO not so when you're OK working with brush cutters, although some might disagree with that). But the mental and physical balance I get from being in the forest every day, rain or shine, tends to outweigh that. So as a parent it's surely a complicated decision as to what to do after we send our youngest off to kindergarten. In particular, planting trees or cleaning treelings from weeds using a scythe could be a damn perfect job for every physically fit loner-introvert. Here's a movie about tree planting in Canada (where this is a huge industry, isn't it?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxR02N-Sauk&t=870s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxR02N-Sauk&t=870s And here's an inspiring guy, forest keeper, scythe mowing enthusiast and witty documentary film maker Simon from the UK. Yep, I want to be just like him when I grow up. If you're interested in traditional tools and manual labour in the wilderness, be sure to check out his entire Youtube channel. Great movies about scythe mower vs tractor competition etc. :) https://youtu.be/yvRJAtPWBCY?t=307 https://youtu.be/yvRJAtPWBCY?t=307 Ah, wonderful things, considering the current shitty-dirty-snowy March-like weather in Estonia.
- metallurgy 8y ago

Agnosco 8y ago

I've also thought about this many times. By coincidence, my closest friends all told about similar thoughts at a gathering recently. It was interesting to hear what people wanted to do, if they wanted to change from their, now established careers. I myself would take on metalworking and/or blacksmithing. I like the idea of working with milling, threading and cutting metals as well as welding. I also think that it is very easy to be romantic about these things. It is probably better to understand how you could turn some of these things into hobbies and then get a bit of both worlds.

cylinder 8y ago
Isn't metalworking pretty lucrative? I think generally you can setup a shop and make a good living.
- ken 8y ago
  Based on my small sample of friends: no, it's really not. It used to be, but these days there's too many other options for cheap and strong materials, and places and methods to get parts made. There's definitely ways to position yourself to make good money, especially if you have connections and experience, but it's certainly not as simple as "set up a shop and make a good living".
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  If you can get contract jobs for aerospace, petroleum etc. then yes. For example, short order prototyping in aerospace and repairs in petroleum. Kind of like getting a programming related job, it takes some networking and reputation. Custom work for cars/motorcycles can also be good with networking and reputation. Other than that, it's basically being the cheap mechanic that can fabricate new parts instead of buying them. Which is not good in the good-vs-evil sense, but not so lucrative.
cr0sh 8y ago
> I like the idea of working with milling, threading and cutting metals as well as welding. I do this as a part of one of my hobbies (robotics). It's really not that fun: It's dirty, smelly, hot, and sometimes can be dangerous. You will get cut. You will get gouged. You will bleed. You will be burned. Not always, but it will happen occasionally. Ideally, that's all the worst that will happen. I've never worked with a metal lathe; I haven't had the need to yet. But I do have access to one. That is the one of a metal shop's tools which you need to be very respectful and mindful about being around and working with. Depending on the size of the machine (the one I have access to isn't very large), it can do everything from maim you severely, to killing you - and it won't care. It'll barely even slow down. Not trying to scare you about metal working, but realize it isn't roses, either. It can be very satisfying to make something out of metal and know you did that. But you need to understand what the price can be - even if you are careful and wearing all the necessary safety equipment. Oh - and never wear gloves or rings (or necklaces, ties, long hair, etc) around things like mills or lathes - really bad to do should things go wrong. But do wear heavy boots, denim jeans (and all natural fiber clothing period), and gloves (plus other PPE like goggles, face shield, etc) when grinding, cutting, or welding - sparks and molten slag/metal are not fun when they hit bare skin (or burn thru your sneakers - ask me how I know).

kabouseng 8y ago

I don't believe this is specific to software dev. I postulate that this feeling of yours is the route cause of what we call the midlife crisis. When you are young, you have all the possibilities of what to do with your life. Methaphorically all the open doors of possibility. But as you progress with your life you have to make decisions about what do you want to do, and as you walk through some doors you close most other doors. For example by choosing to become a software dev, you most certainly wont become a doctor, lawyer, cook, house builder or truck driver, although all these options were open to you a couple of years back, now those doors are mostly closed. And it is this feeling of lost possibilities that you might be feeling.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Totally agree, and am inclined to agree it may be the root cause of many a midlife crisis. I could go back to uni, take on a ton of debt, and after retraining find few want a late fifties junior. Chances are I'd never pay off the student debts before retirement either, unless I get really lucky. A direct into the job route will probably meet just as much resistance to a mid fifties starter. Foreign Legion, Police and Air Force all think I'm too old now. That smell is from all those burnt bridges. Yet 40s and 50s are when many decide they've had enough and want something more fulfilling, find limited choice, and end up with a self employed micro business. I suspect this is not what they wished for in many cases, but just what's left.
- maigret 8y ago
  Interesting point of view, in most of Europe you'd not get in debt at all for that. Finding a job as a beginner would be as hard though. In the age of Internet though, it's never too hard to learn something new for free. Also, you can still try another occupation during the week-ends. You get to learn and experience something new while volunteering or making additional money, and after all you either see that your existing job is better, or that you want to make a change, being trained and knowledgeable of why you want to switch.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago

snarf21 8y ago

We've all been there. I would bet that after a year of sitting in traffic, getting cut off by people texting and having to hold your pee for 6 hours for less pay that software will look pretty amazing. I think that is why it is so important for everyone to have a hobby that is not software. We all need a break from life and something to look forward to. Most devs would be happier if they just treat work as work. Turn off email and slack and all the other nonsense when you aren't at work. It can wait until tomorrow. Spend your free time taking care of you.

cr0sh 8y ago
As an employed SE (been at it for 25+ years), I actually enjoy programming at home. But the key is not doing it with the idea that I will make money from what I am working on, or attempting it as some kind of "side gig". My programming at home is strictly either for my own edification, to solve a problem or provide a solution for a personal need I have, or to simply have some "fun time" playing with code and my computer. For physical stuff, I also play around with hobby-level robotics - which can be anything from small desktop junk and soldering, to building much larger contraptions at my friend's home metalworking shop (he has the tools and space I don't). There doesn't have to be a reason or "need" to turn it off at the end of the day, unless you really don't enjoy it - but I would question why you are doing a job you don't enjoy (yes, I know this is something many people struggle with; most jobs aren't enjoyable - but creative jobs should be enjoyable, at least that's a hope - then again, I've heard of people being software engineers, good at their work, who absolutely hated it, but did it only for the money).

swsieber 8y ago

Please not a truck driver. I get what you mean, but truck drivers are a terrible example because they are often (literally) criminally overworked.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
Ha! You're talking to software professionals here.

d-sc 8y ago

No offense intended here. I have a commercial drivers license and have put a bit of time in driving a truck as a summer job after high school. It sucks. Society basically treats trucks as outcast from the nicer places of our communities. Truck stops are full of chemicals and unhealthy food and anything nicer is barely reachable when you are 75 feet long. 8 hours of coding with the chance of running at the end of the day is much better. I also did a bit of paid software dev after high school, looking at screens isn’t the best, but the freedom to integrate with society is well worth it. (I ended up studying mechanical engineering in college and will graduate in May)

burgerzzz 8y ago
I don't know. I've been in software development professionally for over a decade now, and there are days when the money doesn't seem worth it and I look at construction workers with envy.
- SZJX 8y ago
  A temporary escape from what you might have been a little burnt out from could be nice. Wanting to turn that into a new permanent new profession would be quite ridiculous.
- d-sc 8y ago
  You have a fair and understandable point. Here’s my perspective as someone who has been proximate to both industries. My parents ran a construction company. One day a guy showed up for his first day of work. By virtue of the project’s schedule at that point, a trench needed to be dug 3ft wide by 5ft deep by 20 ft long. There were buried utilies nearby, thus machinery would have been risky. Therefore on Chuck’s first day of work he dug a tench by hand in the 100+ degree sun(By virtue of necessity). That’s a pretty anecdotal, albiet harsh, case. If you’re smart about riding the ups and downs you can make decent money, but as an industry it’s pretty hard on its workers. I have friends who work construction to make money during college. While I am worried someone moved the AC from 68->72, they are breaking their backs pouring cement and consuming illicit drugs to block the back pain.