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Apple’s Latest Macs Have a Serious Audio Glitching Bug

318 points by mortenjorck 8y ago

ipsum2 8y ago
Thought this was regarding Macbook Pro speakers being blown out due to audio glitches that was reported last week: https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-owners-report-speaker-damage-after-experiencing-adobe-premiere-pro-audio-bug https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-ow... (RIP my 2018 Macbook Pro speakers, they sounded great when they worked)
- ms013 8y ago
  I think I got bit by that last night - working with sound in Mathematica, a simple MIDI tune was playing and then my MBP made a horrendously loud noise. Didn't damage the speakers, which surprised me given how loud it was. Probably the fastest I've mashed CMD-Q to quit a program though.
- bouke 8y ago
  My 2016 did that while booting. Now my left channel only produces distorted sounds. Luckily it’s still under AppleCare.
- svetlins 8y ago
  Had that happen to me as well on a 15-inch Touchbar. Left speaker made a horrendous sound on viewing a YouTube video and is now silent. Could probably be fixed under warranty but it's my work machine and can't have it taken from me for 2 weeks which is how long servicing / replacement usually takes in Bulgaria where I'm in.
uvu 8y ago
Generally, Apple MacBook Pro suck since 2017!
- irascible 8y ago
  Since jobs died all mac is suck.
- siquick 8y ago
  Not sure why this getting downvoted. Had my MBA for 6 years and worked perfectly the whole time, just needed to install a new battery after 4 years but that was a personal preference. I've had my MBP w/o touch bar for 13 months and I seriously regret spending $2300 on it. - The keyboard is continually sticking, the left Command key is now completely separated from the keyboard and falls out all the time. I make so many typos now compared to the MBA and people also complain about how loud the keyboard is when Im typing. - The battery life barely lasts more than 2 hours while the MBA lasted 5 hours for exactly the same use case. - If someone trips over the power cable then the whole laptop moves, on the MBA the magsafe just disconnected and no harm done. - Having to use adaptors for USB devices is now getting really tedious. Im at the point where I doubt my next laptop will be a Mac unless they do some serious adjustments to these ridiculous keyboards. I just want the old keyboard back.
  - egypturnash 8y ago
    You're not alone, I seriously regret my six month old maxed-out touchbarless MBPro and really wish I'd managed to hold on a couple more months for the Retina Air. Its keyboard hasn't started sticking on me but its battery life is trash, half the time it dies after like an hour and a half while thinking it's at 20% battery so it doesn't even hibernate to disc like it should. Last week I started migrating back to the five-year-old Air. Would've done it if not for the fact that my home directory is larger than the free space on it, I should try reinstalling the Air from scratch and see if that clears up enough space. Or just look into getting a new SSD for it.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      > it dies [...] while thinking it's at 20% battery This is definitely a manufacturing defect with your battery and you should take it in for warranty repair. It should never do that unless the battery is severely degraded (1000+ cycles)
      - egypturnash 8y ago
        Yep. Constantly says "service battery", too. I've made and cancelled a couple of service appointments due to Seattle basically shutting down for the snowstorms, hopefully I'll get it there at the next one and they will not wave me off with "oh just reset the nvram, also reboot your computer every week or so!" like they did the first time. 230 cycles, 65% capacity, seven months old.
- throw_away2 8y ago
  2015s were the last good MBPs. I pray daily that mine will last forever.
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  Recently replaced my 2015 MBP for a "better" model and I miss it so much. Better keyboard, didn't have play "guess the dongle" when plugging into a projector at work, didn't have weird wake/sleep issues, etc. I haven't really noticed a difference in CPU, and for the same priced MBP I actually have less storage space than my 2015 model. But I can share the charger with my phone, so I guess that's nice
ngngngng 8y ago
I had a different glitch but this reminded me. I have a 2017 Macbook Pro. About a week ago, the left speaker randomly started blasting odd rhythmic white noise. It stopped after a few seconds, but it appears to have blown the left speaker. I've no idea if this is common, or how to prove it and get a new one, or if I even care to go through the hassle.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  This happened to me as well a few weeks ago. Same model MBP. Left speaker got blown out. Haven't had time to take it in to Apple yet (my right hand USB-C ports are also dead so I'm overdue anyway). Googling it, it seems we're not alone
- konkit 8y ago
  Same thing happened to me on MBP 2018 while watching some youtube video...
crazygringo 8y ago
I'm curious... since it seems like a number of high-profile bugs often tend to be with clock- or date-related things... is there a set of best practices somewhere around creating time-related tests? A complete list of situations to test under? I'll confess that testing that my software works while a user (or daemon) changes the system clock is something that I don't think has ever occurred to me, and now I'm wondering what other edge cases also haven't occurred to me.
- panic 8y ago
  Part of the problem is that it's hard to determine all the possible situations you could be in -- changing the time during a DST transition while using the Islamic calendar and so on. Formal methods are relatively inaccessible in general, but I wonder if you could make an easy-to-use verification tool specifically focused on date/time code.
  - ascar 8y ago
    You are right that it's near impossible and unpractical to test all edgecases. But your example goes into the wrong direction. Shouldn't you build your system completely agnostic of time interpretation changes? A DST transition is not actually changing the time. The bug here seems to be coming from system clock updates. I honestly also never thought testing against system clock updates. If I schedule something to happen in 10 seconds I never expected the system clock might be shifting backwards and 10 seconds might become minutes or more. But that should be so super rare. What is a realistic code example that might have problems with system clock updates?
    - gmueckl 8y ago
      Not all parts of a system can be independent of changes to how time is interpreted or displayed. E.g. in a calendar: what happens to the time of a recurring meeting after a DST transition? What if participants are in different time zones with different DST rules? But as long as you only need to track time for dealing with time intervals in an abstract fashion, you can get away with a nice continuous and monotonous scalar representation of timestamps.
komali2 8y ago
That's a weird glitch, and generally I'm not a fan of apple hardware (I think it's overpriced, that their keyboards suck, that they don't have enough ports, and I don't enjoy working in osx), but this article comes off as almost biblically haughty. Apple should have tests around clock updates affecting external audio quality? I mean, maybe after this bug being discovered, sure, but before, was that a connection that could have been made in a QA engineers mind? Maybe it is, maybe it's fair? I don't know anything about manufacturing hardware, but I just find it surprising. Like, off the top of my head, the x1 carbon is still loved by most Linux users (that I have encountered) despite the fact that out of the box, sleep literally does not work on it for Linux systems. You have to install a BIOS update. Yet Lenovo doesn't seem to get nearly the attention that apple does for this and the myriad of other mistakes I have discovered with them.
- blinkingled 8y ago
  > You have to install a BIOS update. To be fair though even without S3 sleep it is easy to drop Linux power consumption on the X1C6 to ~2.5-3W with display off and no Linux user worth their salt is afraid of installing a BIOS update which literally adds a 'Linux' mode for sleep after which it's flawless. The BIOS update even installs without needing Windows now a days - LVFS even.
  - jes5199 8y ago
    ugh I need to install that update. My X1 doesn’t even sleep right in Windows
    - blinkingled 8y ago
      Well there is no sleep in Windows - it's connected standby - which puts everything in low power mode but running. I ran W10 on it few months but don't recall having issues with conn stdby. Yeah definitely update to the latest BIOS though - 1803 issues maybe sorted by the update.
      - nickflood 8y ago
sbr464 8y ago
I hope that fix mentioned works! I just changed the time setting now. I use an iMac pro, I’ve definitely noticed it over the last few weeks, typically when several chrome tabs are open or heavy use it seems. I also noticed it pretty bad when using a Universal Audio Arrow device, and web midi also. Currently I close chrome and reopen to fix. Happens every 1-2 days.
- tmikaeld 8y ago
  As mentioned in the comments on the link, it doesn't work. It just lowers the amount of "clicks". I noticed the bug the same day the Mac mini 2018 came out and have found no solution.
  - sbr464 8y ago
    Ah, that sucks. It’s definitely pretty bad, especially for a 6-8k+ machine.
    - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
      Certain applications - Sibelius seems particularly bad - cause audio glitches that can be cured by restarting coreaudiod. The other glitching problem I've had is in Ableton Live, where every thirty seconds or so the sound from the audio inputs glitches and breaks up, which makes Live useless for any kind of recording. This is a known Live bug that has been around for a long time. It seems to be caused by the built-in audio devices competing with external hardware. Certainly Apple are a long, long way from "It just works" now.
innocentoldguy 8y ago
The article tries its best to sensationalize the fact that Apple, gasp of all people, has a bug it its stuff. The reality is that all software and all devices have bugs. I would prefer a more journalistically honest, non-sensationalist approach to writing. Tell me what the bug is. Tell me what it affects. Tell me how to fix it. Done.
- gboudrias 8y ago
  I'm about as anti-Apple as it gets and I agree. You don't need words like "alarming" in an article about audio bugs.
- iceninenines 8y ago
  Maybe they're expressing their frustrations with Apple in general, but it is weak to exaggerate. And I'm unsure if you're an Apple fanboy or not, but you maybe missing the big picture aside from this article: Apple is now just like supermarket produce - pretty, tasteless garbage. The facts are: - Those low-profile keyboards are loud, uncomfortable and frequently break - Glued in batteries basically destroyed if removed - Overpriced - Many MLB failures causing all sorts of random problems - Many overpriced dongles required to do anything - Non-Apple USB-A to -C adapter disconnects WiFi, but works fine on all other brands. Not just one adapter, multiple peripherals cause this issue. - All sorts of other random quality issues and first year breakages - No official parts channel - Hidden/proprietary tools for diagnostics, repair and dead MLB SSD transfer - Soldered in RAM - Soldered in SSD - No available schematics for repair - Apple declares almost every model "vintage" at six years, preventing repairs and further OS upgrades In conclusion, if someone is willing to take all this abuse when Apple clearly tells them "FU," what should an observer think? To me, it says: SJ is gone, a bean counter and a Bentley-chauffeured designer don't have a clue, so it's time to give up on Apple's computers until they find some vision and awareness.
  - innocentoldguy 8y ago
    Hello, I can see why some of the things on this list might be frustrating for some users. To offer a different perspective, I actually like many of the things you consider "tasteless garbage." For example: 1. I like Apple's low-profile keyboards. As I get older, I find myself suffering more and more from RSIs unless my keyboard is absolutely flat and I don't have to lift my fingers too much to hit the keys. Before I started using Apple computers, I'd buy TypeMatrix and low-profile Logitec keyboards for the same reason. Apple's low-profile keyboards feel pretty good to me. I cannot use mice anymore either, and there isn't anything on the market that compares to Apple's trackpads (both built-in and external). 2. When I buy a laptop or desktop, I always max it out with memory at the time of purchase, so I don't really care about removable RAM. Even on machines I build myself, I max out the RAM and never touch it again. Since soldered-on memory (and batteries and SSDs for that matter) result in a slimmer profile and less weight, I prefer this in a laptop. I can see why this would be an issue for some though. 3. I think, the "Apple products are too expensive" argument is largely a myth. Maybe other people have different experiences but I've used both Windows and Apple computers throughout my career and my Windows machines are always more expensive over time. When I buy an Apple laptop, the OS and all supported updates are free, productivity tools and all supported updates are free, the best version Apple has to offer of its development environment is free, and most of the other software I use is a lot cheaper than similar Windows products. Apple machines may cost me more up front (which isn't always the case), but Windows machines have always cost me more in the long run due to the cost of software and upgrades. For example, buying VisualStudio's standard subscription alone adds $1,199 to the cost of my Windows computer the first year and $799 every year after, easily eating up any savings I may have had at the time of my original purchase. If I want to update Windows at some point, that costs more as well. Productivity tools are now subscription based and add to the cost over time, too. I typically use a laptop for three years and then buy a new one. I've always spent more on my Windows laptops during those three-year periods than I have on my Apple computers. My use case is probably different that other people, so this may not hold true for everyone. 4. I've been using Apple laptops since 2007 and never had a problem. I know there have been publicized failures (just like there have for Dell, HP, and components for DIY computers), but I'm pretty happy with Apples 12 year track record with me personally. 5. I've never used a dongle on my MPB. I do have some USB devices (e.g. audio interfaces), but I just bought a couple of cheap USB-C to USB-B cords. No need for expensive dongles. I guess that's the price of progress. I don't use my serial/parallel port cords anymore either. I'm not saying you don't have some legitimate complaints. I'm just saying my experience and opinions have been different. I've always been satisfied with my Apple purchases.
rachelbythebay 8y ago
Guessing here, but ... CLOCK_MONOTONIC for the win?
- Slartie 8y ago
  Would guess that as well. Very common error, which comes in many fashions and which can be made in practically any language. I'm mostly working in Java, where it's the same thing with System.currentTimeMillis() used instead of System.nanoTime() to measure and/or enforce timespans (because "you know, nanoseconds are so unwieldy, and milliseconds are so nice on the eyes, and I only needed millisecond precision...and anyway, who on earth would change the clock while our software is running...").
_asummers 8y ago
Semi-related: But does anyone know why unplugging headphones while audio is muted causes the audio to become unmuted? This is easily my least favorite bug and results in a 10 second shuffle of frantically finding the mute button again, sometimes with the laptop closed. It seems like something that would never pass QA in previous iterations of Apple, though I could be remembering the past more fondly than was true.
- godzilla82 8y ago
  Have you tried reproducing this with other headphones, 2 channel ones etc.
  - _asummers 8y ago
    I have not tried that, though I will experiment. It seems to be an issue with the latest OSX version (Mojave), as I cannot recall it happening on the last OSX major version (High Sierra?). I do not have new headphones across this version switch. As a workaround, I have to go to the audio app and explicitly pause, which I frequently forget to do if the audio is muted. My desk mates have heard way more samples of my library than they'd like, I'm sure.
  - PascLeRasc 8y ago
    Not sure if it's present in OS X, but I know at least iOS has impedance memory, so it'll recognize specific headphones and set the volume to what it was last at when they were plugged in. It's a really nice feature.
    - shorts_theory 8y ago
      TIL. That's really cool.
- dahfizz 8y ago
  Was the audio unmuted last time the headphones were unplugged? I don't have any apple hardware but this is a common feature of Android. Your laptop might remember the state "speakers are on but headphones are muted". So when you remove headphones, it switches to the speakers and starts playing.
mrinterweb 8y ago
I have a 2017 MBP, and it regularly has audio issues, among other issues. Sometimes I'm able to kill the audio daemon, and get my audio back. Other times I have to reboot (sometimes I have to reset the PRAM in order to get audio back). I have audio problems at least once a week. I know two other people with 2017 MBPs that have the same regular issues I do. I assume there are many more. I feel that recent Apple laptops are no longer premium machines regardless of the premium price tag.
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  I'd agree with this. I don't recall backlash against Apple products to the extent I've seen in places like this over the last two years, ever. I don't think anyone can argue against the notion that the quality of hardware and software is much lower than previous models of basically anything in their range and I don't think I'll buy another Apple product outside of a replacement iPad, so presumably there's some sort of change afoot. It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out; so called 'techies' are often the people family and friends consult for advice on new purchases, and if we're not recommending Apple products, will that make a difference? I don't think they care - they're rich enough not to worry, perhaps, but it's still odd to alienate a demographic this way. I'm sure they know something I don't!
- jonaswouters 8y ago
  I had a 2017 MBP and the USB speakers I had caused issues. I sold them thinking it was an issue with the speakers, but the next set of USB speakers had the same problem. Eventually, I just used AUX to connect them.
  - mrinterweb 8y ago
    The sound issues I've been running into are not limited to a single type of output. When the sound is out on my computer it is out for internal speakers, Bluetooth, HDMI, USB, and 3.5mm AUX.
quack_quack 8y ago
Wow, another two minute hate. Thanks, HN. Doubleplus helpful.
mishurov 8y ago
Humans don't use Apple. Monkeys will defend it anyway. So why care?
docker_up 8y ago
Apple appears to be coming to some sort of head at this point. This is speaking as someone heavily invested in Apple products and shares. Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer willing to pay so much for them. They are too damn expensive, with nothing to justify their costs. I am one of the morons who upgraded to the XS, but only because I needed the 512GB storage. If not for the increased storage needs, I wouldn't have upgraded and I know for a fact there is really no difference after using it for several months. I have no plans on updating to the next one, the first time since iPhone 3. MacBooks are worse now than they were since 2015. I won't upgrade until they get rid of the TouchBar. I would rather go back to Windows than use that stupid TouchBar. Apple software is terrible. iTunes is still the worst piece of software that I'm forced to use. The bugs they've had are inexcusable. Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their engineers top wages, they are wasting it on stock buybacks. Until their revenues decrease year-over-year they won't change their ways. To put it bluntly, Apple is extremely, extremely arrogant and I hope they will pay their price in the next few years. It feels like all product lines are either too expensive and/or worse quality than even a few years previous. Many people unhappy or unimpressed with their products, but they don't give a damn.
- mk89 8y ago
  >Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their engineers top wages, Any numbers saying that they earn just an average salary? Also, why would the touchbar be an engineering issue? Some people like it. (I don't) I do understand your concerns and I agree with some of them, I just don't believe it's because they pay their engineers less, or they are not good enough. Some decisions come from top management. If there is only capacity to fix 10 bugs, well, that's it. I don't even see this large amount of features delivered on a monthly basis, so I assume their plan is really to invest just on their iPhones and hardware, maybe.
  - adrianhel 8y ago
    The engineering issue is a lack of accidental touch sensing. Mac did this with the caps lock key (which is arguably easier to implement). The feature feels half baked.
lowlevel 8y ago
Generally, pro-audio users lag behind on OS updates and hardware updates. Apple generally has problems with audio with every new generation, and this is nothing new. When you count on something to work, you tend to buy the old models.. you tend to run the previous known good OS... you tend to avoid updating anything as much as possible. This is only getting worse as apples software and hardware quality are severely degrading over the past few years. Pro users are leaving left right and center.
ascar 8y ago
Can someone provide a good quality example of code that would bug on system clock updates? I have a hard time thinking about one. Especially as these system clock updates shouldn't change the time for more than a few seconds, at least if you have automatic updates turned on (and the fix in the article is to turn that off). I'm not interested in examples that shouldn't have made it through a merge request in the first place. It's not about the actual bug that happened here, but more about general things to think about that can go wrong with system time updates. I can think about two main use cases for system time: Measuring time elapsed, most notably for timeouts, and scheduling something in the future (which can be done with a timestamp instead of time elapsed). Maybe I'm already missing some important ones here. In the time elapsed use case a time shift into the future might delay something for these few seconds, which shouldn't result in more than a lag. A shift into the past might trigger a timeout, but a timeout that triggers on a few seconds should be a handled error. In the schedule use case a time shift into the future shouldn't make any difference. You can't assume it's run at exact times anyway and always use "should happen after", i.e. greater than timestamp. A time shift into the past might only delay it a bit, still no reason for a bug. What am I missing?
- spiralganglion 8y ago
  I believe I’ve had this issue, manifesting as skips and glitches only a fraction of a second long, like a pop or click. Total conjecture apropos of nothing, this issue could be that the system clock update does something synchronous or blocking in the T2, introducing a very brief interruption to audio scheduling.
- vortico 8y ago
  This bug is caused by the Mac time daemon stealing 10ms+ of resources from the scheduler (perhaps because of it being a wrong thread priority, or the clock hardware taking a very long time to respond to an update request? who knows), not because audio drivers use the real time value for any reason (they don't).
fcvarela 8y ago
As frustrated with Apple as the next person, but I have never experienced this using a bunch of interfaces and devices with their own clock source...
rock_artist 8y ago
I'm a former full-time musician working as an audio dev those days. Developing audio-plugins (AU) make you use a lot of DAWs (digital-audio-workstations). There's some issue with Logic Pro X that has been logged for quite a while now. A few days ago I heard the reason it isn't addressed for more than a year now... The developer in-charge on that feature isn't allowed to access other parts of code needed for fixing the issue. Apple quality-control in the past years has been totally wracked. What concerns me isn't this issue, but the future of it: - it might won't be fixed at all! (arghghgh) - it might be fixed after very long time (and who know maybe they'll break or regress something else).
- jamesb93 8y ago
  Did you ever come across how they map parameters inside the VST/AU standard? Everyone else does 0 -> 1. They do 1 -> 120 or something completely boffed.
  - btown 8y ago
    I'm not surprised given Logic's legacy baggage from the days eMagic was an independent company. Everything was stored in an event list, which would try to fit many things into MIDI-like terminology. Not surprised if they tried to quantize parameters for software instruments the way they would for hardware instruments, and this has stayed the case almost two decades later.
  - missjellyfish 8y ago
    AFAIK it‘s 1 to 127 because of MIDI.
    - jamesb93 8y ago
      I distinctly remember it being not the MIDI standard, and it was really frustrating. I'll report back if I look at it again.
- pier25 8y ago
  I've used Logic since 2004 and quite frankly in its current state it seems Apple is barely keeping it alive for old users much like Motion which hasn't seen a major release since 2011.
adrianhel 8y ago
What is happening with Macs? My butterfly keyboard repeats keys. This easily halves my typing speed. (Or rather "Itt easily halves my ttyping speed") Yesterday my machine got stuck booting with a black screen after running out of battery with the backlight turned off. Also, the keyboards have gone from making virtually no sound to making loud clicking sounds. I have also had a glitch where the sound gets distorted.
- MattBearman 8y ago
  Depending on your Macbook's age and your location, you may be able to get the keyboard replaced due to sticking keys. I ended up getting a brand new MBP when they repeatedly fucked up repairing my sticking keyboard. Obviously it would be better if the keyboards didn't break so easily to begin with, but at least you may not have to put up with it :)
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    Once I entered an Apple store with a cracked case (white MacBook fell from the table). I left with a brand new lower part (hard disk excepted - they moved mine to the new machine) for free. There was a recall for the case, IIRC, one for the upper palm rest (something to do with magnets that made the plastic crack) and they replaced the keyboard for no reason. I have to say Apple's support experience is stellar. I can't imagine having that with a Dell or Lenovo.
    - rerx 8y ago
      With Lenovo you would get the 3 years onsite warranty with accidental damage protection at the time of purchase. Then a technician will come to your office or home and to replace the broken parts of your Thinkpad. That beats having to go to an Apple store IMO.
    - slezyr 8y ago
      There is no Apple stores in some countries or only in some cities. Often, Apple costs even more there. You can order parts from aliexpress and replace on your own if it's Lenovo.
aqibgatoo 8y ago
I have been frustrated by it..as of writing this comment the speakers have gone dumb...
satysin 8y ago
Interesting as I don't seem to have this issue on the two 2018 MBP I've had. Originally I had a release day i7/32GB/1TB/560X model but it had a power/charging issue so Apple replaced it with an i9 model which has been perfect. I have worried a lot about the keyboard breaking but so far it has been fine. I actually really like working on it now with the exception of the TouchBar which is the most useless change to keyboard design in years. I really enjoy this laptop. I bought it after two years of pain buying, replacing and ultimately returning sub-par Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Microsoft. Apple gets a lot of hate in the tech press (and regular press sometimes) whereas people seem to accept far worse issues from only-slightly-cheaper Dell, Microsoft, etc. laptops. The Dell XPS 15 9570 has far worse audio issues (DPC latency, crackling/popping speakers), coil whine on the majority of units shipped, keyboard issues (ironically I had more keyboard issues with my XPS 15) and much worse thermal throttling compared to the MBP 2018. Sleep issues (honestly just support S3 ffs) I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. From thermal throttling, constant BSOD/crashing when de/reattaching the performance base, pen input skipping and a whole host of silly-but-annoying software issues and of course sleep issues because not even Microsoft's own hardware works properly with their new S0i3 Connected Standby crap. The MBP isn't perfect. The constant anxiety that something will kill the keyboard sucks but on the whole it is without a doubt the best modern laptop I have used in that it has the least issues. It sleeps when I close the lid, it also comes back on instantly, it never needs to be rebooted to get things working again, screen is stunning, runs cool and quiet when not being pushed with no random spinning up of the fans for a few minutes, etc.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  > I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. I mean, to an extent you expect that from Microsoft (certainly their whole Surface line has been pretty buggy). People are more annoyed at similar issues with Macs because historically they haven't had them (or at least have had them less than other vendors). To be honest, I suspect the 2018 MBPs _still_ have fewer weird issues than most of the competition (imagine how Apple users would react if it routinely shipped with coil whine, or the sort of screen quality issues that are common on the Surface line...) but it definitely feels like Apple have slipped a bit, and given that their whole thing was always "it just works", that's not great.
StreamBright 8y ago
Among other problems. IPv6 is not impossible to be disabled and few other minor annoyances.
rbanffy 8y ago
Isn't this being blown out of proportion? Can't it be simply repaired by a firmware update?
iceninenines 8y ago
Not surprised after watching Louis Rossmann's rants and demos of brand new MBP's failing. Glad I bought a Lenovo T480 on-sale rather than deal with an overpriced loaf Apple pinched out lately.
doktrin 8y ago
Apple's latest macs have all kinds of bugs and glitches that I can't remember ever being present in ~2010-2015 MBPs, including but not limited to what's mentioned here (the already-shoddy keyboard being taken out by a spec of dust, speakers blowing out entirely, screen develops massive artifacts / heat damage from closing lid "too early", fan is a permanent 747 ready for takeoff, on and on and on). The quality of their laptops is sub-par relative to the price point. At this point, the software / OS is the strongest selling point (to me, at least), but my patience is wearing thin and at a certain point I'd rather just go back to Linux rather than deal with this absurd form-over-function design-uber-alles paradigm they've embraced.
dep_b 8y ago
The advice to just run to Windows for pro audio uses is really something I wouldn't like to be accounted for. Sure, I had a stable rig with tight MIDI and audio decades ago but I was a pretty huge geek and started with quality components to begin with (the Asus P2B was almost godlike in performance and stability) with of course just a bit of good old luck.
imdsm 8y ago
I recently bought a new MacBook Air, and it had an absolutely terrible keyboard, and had a horrible high pitched whine. I sent it back within a few hours and got a refund. So now I still have my Late 2013 MBP (top spec) but I really want a new work machine. I've looked at a few Apple alternatives with the intention of putting linux on them but they are all so ugly or bulky. Is it so hard for laptop designers to create decent looking machines?
- andmarios 8y ago
  I have a Huawei Matebook X Pro and I like it. There are many things to like about it but the one that stands out for me is the 3:2 ratio screen. No matter how much Dell and Lenovo call their offerings professional, I just can't see a professional working on a 13" 16:9 screen. Things I don't like about the Matebook is that the warranty and repair services are basically unknowns, there is no next business day, on-site warranty and of course, they aren't battle tested —though quality issues seem to be all the more common for Lenovo, Dell an Apple nowadays. Had a friend joke the other day _your Huawei is the only one sure to keep working, its main purpose is surveillance and if it brokes down, it can't perform its duty_. :)
graeme 8y ago
As someone who just bought an imac pro for audio/video recording, this is deeply disappointing. Has anyone found that this workaround on reddit solved the issue? https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs_with_t2_chip_unusable_with_external/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs... On a forum linked in the cdm.link article someone mentioned blocking the time services via firewall: is there a list of everything needed to be blocked?
obituary_latte 8y ago
I just bought a new Mac Pro after spending over a year trying to fix audio/performance issues. Posting on stack exchange, apple forums, and endless googling proved fruitless. I tried every possible reset (nvram et al) and even created a new account (which seemed to help for a while until the issue came back after a month or so oddly). I had such a spark of hope when I saw this title. Alas, my fix for coreaudio HALC_ProxyIOContext::IOWorkLoop: skipping cycle due to overload Audio still eludes me.
dharma1 8y ago
Honestly, I'm really disappointed with Apple for pro use lately. 1) not testing stuff thoroughly - the i9 mbpro overheating saga ("fixed" by firmware upgrade), this T2 usb2 dropout (which probably isn't fixable at all) - unacceptable. 2) releasing significant GPU upgrade 2 months after a flagship mbpro release - I and many others were screwed by buying the latest and greatest (the most expensive laptop I've ever bought) only to be obsoleted 2 months later by 90% faster GPU that doesn't overheat, with no chance for customer exchange at that point. Inexcusable, I pay the Apple premium to avoid crap like this, now I'm wondering what I am paying 2x for?
- S_A_P 8y ago
  Which mbpro are you referring to on the GPU upgrade? Ive not been keeping up. I will add that the T2 chip seems to be a solution looking to create a problem. I had a lot of grief with my iMac Pro and the T2 chip causing kernel panics. I had to re install Mac OS and that seemed to resolve it for the most part. I use my imac pro for audio so Im thankful I have a thunderbolt interface. If I had spent that 5k for a space grey paperweight I think I would be pretty furious.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    The 2018 Macbook Pro (introducted in July) got an update with Vega graphics in October https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-graphics-options-macbook-pro https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-...
- 013a 8y ago
  Most recently, I'd also include the "iPad Pro Shipping Without A Headphone Jack". It's different than ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone, which is mostly just an inconvenience and wireless headphones are becoming more popular anyway. Music production is literally one of their big advertising markets for the iPad, with a vast array of applications available. Wireless headphones are unusable for music production (not just quality, but also latency) (not Apple's fault, its just bluetooth). So if I want to mess around and make some sounds, I need a dongle for my headphones; and most often, I need a full expensive USB-C hub because I need a second USB-C port for charging. So now, you've got a hub to get two USB-C ports, then you've got a USB-C -> 3.5 dongle on one of them (some USB-C hubs have built-in 3.5 ports, but these don't generally support audio passthrough, and the DACs inside the hub are shit compared to Apple's official ones). If you've ever owned a big USB-C hub like this, you'll know that they get Hot. Like, "that's uncomfortable to touch" Hot. All they had to do is put two USB-C ports on it. That's fine; I get that headphone jacks are thick and "last gen". But they couldn't even do that.
exabrial 8y ago
Every mainstage user :/
sramsay 8y ago
From the article: "Issues with the way the new chip synchronizes timing causes dropouts and glitches in the audio stream. (It seems basically all USB 2.0 audio interfaces will be impacted. This of course unfortunately leads users to blame their interface manufacturer, but the fault lies with Apple.)" As someone who works with a lot of pro audio gear on the Mac, I can say that it's hard to describe what a show stopper this is. Glitches and dropouts are a catastrophic problem for almost anything involving sound, and they're right: If you're having those kinds of problems, you run immediately to the interface manufacturer. Still, I'm not sure many people using pro-grade audio interfaces (mine cost almost as much as the computer itself) are still using the USB 2.0 bus. Thunderbolt has been pretty enthusiastically embraced by the industry.
- lowlevel 8y ago
  I'm still using firewire.
- pier25 8y ago
  > Still, I'm not sure many people using pro-grade audio interfaces are still using the USB 2.0 bus Audio AD/DA hasn't changed a lot in the past 10-15 years. A good USB 2 interface is still perfectly valid as long as the manufacturer provides drivers. For example the legendary RME Babyface Pro.
  - sramsay 8y ago
    That's true. RME (definitely on the high end) is remarkably good about supporting a wide variety of connection technologies. Include Firewire.
tsp 8y ago
I am / was heavily invested in Apple hardware as well (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad). I recently switched to an Android phone, because the price-point of buying a new iPhone is just not justifiable any more. Android feels a bit spammy, but overall it does what I need it to do. I will stick with Android for now. I was looking at the iPad Pro recently, because I could need a second screen when I’m working e.g. from a co-working space. It looks beautiful, but things like no-headphone jack makes it too much trouble for me. I don’t want to bring my dongles all the time. As others have mentioned using Bluetooth headphones for music production just isn’t good enough because of latency. Also I prefer having devices without a battery. Less to think about when leaving the house. I am using my MacBook Pro 2014 daily for 10+ for work and as a private computer. It’s about time to upgrade for me, because I could save quite a lot of time with a faster CPU. While I would love to have a more powerful device running macOS (so a newer MacBook Pro), from what I heard they are just worse than my 2014 MacBook Pro. I still use a lot of USB 2/3 devices, I want a keyboard, which feels good and does not get broken easily. I don’t care about it being thin at all. I want performance and an SD slot. Because it is clear that there is no such machine produces by Apple right now (and probably in the future) I had to look for alternatives. The Surface Book 2 by Microsoft is really interesting. They even have a Nvidia GPU, which can be used for Deep Learning and graphical experiments. A big advantage over the GPUs used by Apple imo. Sadly from all what I hear Windows 10 just isn’t good enough to use it daily as a programmer. I spend many hours researching and found a lot of comments from former macOS user who switched. Windows will (still) drive you nuts if you are used to things just working they say. The only alternative, Linux, would mean a serious commitment to figuring out stuff by myself, spending time making my system work. I am currently stuck with macOS, and therefore my laptop from 2014. I’m quite sure I will switch to another OS in the next two years, but it is hard to figure out which is the better option for me.
- bndw 8y ago
  In my experience I spend most of my time in a terminal emulator or a web browser. Windows runs Docker these days, so theoretically you could avoid toolchain annoyance. Windows also has Firefox. But, YMMV (written from a macbook)
  - 8y ago
geden 8y ago
Have had many issues with USB2 RME pro audio interfaces and recent Macs, the most serious of which RME was able to overcome (for us) in the v3.13 driver. More of a long term problem is the fact that USB C/TB3 is a totally unsuitable connector for professional use. It's far too prone to coming out of the port through lack of locking mechanism, insufficient friction. On MBPs the ports also wear very quickly.
dwrodri 8y ago
If you've never read Andrew Grover's "Only The Paranoid Survive" I highly recommend it. It really appears that Apple has reached an inflection point where they need to fix the core product design lifecycle. I think it's very possible that the C-level execs and the board of directors don't realize the pressing issues from the outside. Sure, the typical software engineer isn't their target demographic. But I would argue that tech-oriented users should be the bellwether for key issues related to performance and usability since as a demographic they tend to do things that will identify the flaws of your product.
mmfl 8y ago
Apple definitely have a major issue here - I upgraded from the 2016 MBP to 2018 MBP (max'ed out specs in both cases apart from SSD size) and audio dropouts etc when using Mainstage for live performance with virtual instruments (sound sources) have increased greatly. I'm a (piano) keyboard player and low buffer sizes and latency (<5 ms) are essential for turning my MBP into a responsive and expressive musical instrument. Unfortunately such settings reveal harshly the huge degradation in audio performance that has occurred and I am not any longer be prepared to use my MBP in a live performance situation. (Even if a larger buffer size reduces the dropouts I don't want to play an unresponsive instrument.) It's just ridiculous to see my powerful MBP running at very low percentage CPU utilisation and performing so badly. Interestingly yes I experience issues with my USB2 interface (RME Babyface Pro) but also when using the MBP's headphone jack or the interface via USB ports on my LG Ultrafine 5K monitor (which has its own USB chip). I do wonder if the root issue may be along the lines of this poster's theory about poorly written Apple driver code (since Apple probably wrote new driver code to accommodate T2): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&postcount=4 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&post...
tempodox 8y ago
> But more alarming is that this is another serious quality control fumble from Apple. The value proposition with Apple always been that the company’s control over its own hardware, software, and industrial engineering meant a more predictable product. I can't believe they don't know that themselves and act accordingly. How much more incentive do you need? What the heck is going on at Apple?

318 points by mortenjorck 8y ago

Thought this was regarding Macbook Pro speakers being blown out due to audio glitches that was reported last week: https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-owners-report-speaker-damage-after-experiencing-adobe-premiere-pro-audio-bug https://www.dpreview.com/news/2610969677/some-macbook-pro-ow... (RIP my 2018 Macbook Pro speakers, they sounded great when they worked)

ms013 8y ago
I think I got bit by that last night - working with sound in Mathematica, a simple MIDI tune was playing and then my MBP made a horrendously loud noise. Didn't damage the speakers, which surprised me given how loud it was. Probably the fastest I've mashed CMD-Q to quit a program though.
bouke 8y ago
My 2016 did that while booting. Now my left channel only produces distorted sounds. Luckily it’s still under AppleCare.
svetlins 8y ago
Had that happen to me as well on a 15-inch Touchbar. Left speaker made a horrendous sound on viewing a YouTube video and is now silent. Could probably be fixed under warranty but it's my work machine and can't have it taken from me for 2 weeks which is how long servicing / replacement usually takes in Bulgaria where I'm in.

uvu 8y ago

Generally, Apple MacBook Pro suck since 2017!

irascible 8y ago
Since jobs died all mac is suck.
siquick 8y ago
Not sure why this getting downvoted. Had my MBA for 6 years and worked perfectly the whole time, just needed to install a new battery after 4 years but that was a personal preference. I've had my MBP w/o touch bar for 13 months and I seriously regret spending $2300 on it. - The keyboard is continually sticking, the left Command key is now completely separated from the keyboard and falls out all the time. I make so many typos now compared to the MBA and people also complain about how loud the keyboard is when Im typing. - The battery life barely lasts more than 2 hours while the MBA lasted 5 hours for exactly the same use case. - If someone trips over the power cable then the whole laptop moves, on the MBA the magsafe just disconnected and no harm done. - Having to use adaptors for USB devices is now getting really tedious. Im at the point where I doubt my next laptop will be a Mac unless they do some serious adjustments to these ridiculous keyboards. I just want the old keyboard back.
- egypturnash 8y ago
  You're not alone, I seriously regret my six month old maxed-out touchbarless MBPro and really wish I'd managed to hold on a couple more months for the Retina Air. Its keyboard hasn't started sticking on me but its battery life is trash, half the time it dies after like an hour and a half while thinking it's at 20% battery so it doesn't even hibernate to disc like it should. Last week I started migrating back to the five-year-old Air. Would've done it if not for the fact that my home directory is larger than the free space on it, I should try reinstalling the Air from scratch and see if that clears up enough space. Or just look into getting a new SSD for it.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    > it dies [...] while thinking it's at 20% battery This is definitely a manufacturing defect with your battery and you should take it in for warranty repair. It should never do that unless the battery is severely degraded (1000+ cycles)
    - egypturnash 8y ago
      Yep. Constantly says "service battery", too. I've made and cancelled a couple of service appointments due to Seattle basically shutting down for the snowstorms, hopefully I'll get it there at the next one and they will not wave me off with "oh just reset the nvram, also reboot your computer every week or so!" like they did the first time. 230 cycles, 65% capacity, seven months old.
throw_away2 8y ago
2015s were the last good MBPs. I pray daily that mine will last forever.
Rebelgecko 8y ago
Recently replaced my 2015 MBP for a "better" model and I miss it so much. Better keyboard, didn't have play "guess the dongle" when plugging into a projector at work, didn't have weird wake/sleep issues, etc. I haven't really noticed a difference in CPU, and for the same priced MBP I actually have less storage space than my 2015 model. But I can share the charger with my phone, so I guess that's nice

ngngngng 8y ago

I had a different glitch but this reminded me. I have a 2017 Macbook Pro. About a week ago, the left speaker randomly started blasting odd rhythmic white noise. It stopped after a few seconds, but it appears to have blown the left speaker. I've no idea if this is common, or how to prove it and get a new one, or if I even care to go through the hassle.

kalleboo 8y ago
This happened to me as well a few weeks ago. Same model MBP. Left speaker got blown out. Haven't had time to take it in to Apple yet (my right hand USB-C ports are also dead so I'm overdue anyway). Googling it, it seems we're not alone
konkit 8y ago
Same thing happened to me on MBP 2018 while watching some youtube video...

crazygringo 8y ago

I'm curious... since it seems like a number of high-profile bugs often tend to be with clock- or date-related things... is there a set of best practices somewhere around creating time-related tests? A complete list of situations to test under? I'll confess that testing that my software works while a user (or daemon) changes the system clock is something that I don't think has ever occurred to me, and now I'm wondering what other edge cases also haven't occurred to me.

panic 8y ago
Part of the problem is that it's hard to determine all the possible situations you could be in -- changing the time during a DST transition while using the Islamic calendar and so on. Formal methods are relatively inaccessible in general, but I wonder if you could make an easy-to-use verification tool specifically focused on date/time code.
- ascar 8y ago
  You are right that it's near impossible and unpractical to test all edgecases. But your example goes into the wrong direction. Shouldn't you build your system completely agnostic of time interpretation changes? A DST transition is not actually changing the time. The bug here seems to be coming from system clock updates. I honestly also never thought testing against system clock updates. If I schedule something to happen in 10 seconds I never expected the system clock might be shifting backwards and 10 seconds might become minutes or more. But that should be so super rare. What is a realistic code example that might have problems with system clock updates?
  - gmueckl 8y ago
    Not all parts of a system can be independent of changes to how time is interpreted or displayed. E.g. in a calendar: what happens to the time of a recurring meeting after a DST transition? What if participants are in different time zones with different DST rules? But as long as you only need to track time for dealing with time intervals in an abstract fashion, you can get away with a nice continuous and monotonous scalar representation of timestamps.

komali2 8y ago

That's a weird glitch, and generally I'm not a fan of apple hardware (I think it's overpriced, that their keyboards suck, that they don't have enough ports, and I don't enjoy working in osx), but this article comes off as almost biblically haughty. Apple should have tests around clock updates affecting external audio quality? I mean, maybe after this bug being discovered, sure, but before, was that a connection that could have been made in a QA engineers mind? Maybe it is, maybe it's fair? I don't know anything about manufacturing hardware, but I just find it surprising. Like, off the top of my head, the x1 carbon is still loved by most Linux users (that I have encountered) despite the fact that out of the box, sleep literally does not work on it for Linux systems. You have to install a BIOS update. Yet Lenovo doesn't seem to get nearly the attention that apple does for this and the myriad of other mistakes I have discovered with them.

blinkingled 8y ago
> You have to install a BIOS update. To be fair though even without S3 sleep it is easy to drop Linux power consumption on the X1C6 to ~2.5-3W with display off and no Linux user worth their salt is afraid of installing a BIOS update which literally adds a 'Linux' mode for sleep after which it's flawless. The BIOS update even installs without needing Windows now a days - LVFS even.
- jes5199 8y ago
  ugh I need to install that update. My X1 doesn’t even sleep right in Windows
  - blinkingled 8y ago
    Well there is no sleep in Windows - it's connected standby - which puts everything in low power mode but running. I ran W10 on it few months but don't recall having issues with conn stdby. Yeah definitely update to the latest BIOS though - 1803 issues maybe sorted by the update.
    - nickflood 8y ago

sbr464 8y ago

I hope that fix mentioned works! I just changed the time setting now. I use an iMac pro, I’ve definitely noticed it over the last few weeks, typically when several chrome tabs are open or heavy use it seems. I also noticed it pretty bad when using a Universal Audio Arrow device, and web midi also. Currently I close chrome and reopen to fix. Happens every 1-2 days.

tmikaeld 8y ago
As mentioned in the comments on the link, it doesn't work. It just lowers the amount of "clicks". I noticed the bug the same day the Mac mini 2018 came out and have found no solution.
- sbr464 8y ago
  Ah, that sucks. It’s definitely pretty bad, especially for a 6-8k+ machine.
  - TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
    Certain applications - Sibelius seems particularly bad - cause audio glitches that can be cured by restarting coreaudiod. The other glitching problem I've had is in Ableton Live, where every thirty seconds or so the sound from the audio inputs glitches and breaks up, which makes Live useless for any kind of recording. This is a known Live bug that has been around for a long time. It seems to be caused by the built-in audio devices competing with external hardware. Certainly Apple are a long, long way from "It just works" now.

innocentoldguy 8y ago

The article tries its best to sensationalize the fact that Apple, gasp of all people, has a bug it its stuff. The reality is that all software and all devices have bugs. I would prefer a more journalistically honest, non-sensationalist approach to writing. Tell me what the bug is. Tell me what it affects. Tell me how to fix it. Done.

gboudrias 8y ago
I'm about as anti-Apple as it gets and I agree. You don't need words like "alarming" in an article about audio bugs.
iceninenines 8y ago
Maybe they're expressing their frustrations with Apple in general, but it is weak to exaggerate. And I'm unsure if you're an Apple fanboy or not, but you maybe missing the big picture aside from this article: Apple is now just like supermarket produce - pretty, tasteless garbage. The facts are: - Those low-profile keyboards are loud, uncomfortable and frequently break - Glued in batteries basically destroyed if removed - Overpriced - Many MLB failures causing all sorts of random problems - Many overpriced dongles required to do anything - Non-Apple USB-A to -C adapter disconnects WiFi, but works fine on all other brands. Not just one adapter, multiple peripherals cause this issue. - All sorts of other random quality issues and first year breakages - No official parts channel - Hidden/proprietary tools for diagnostics, repair and dead MLB SSD transfer - Soldered in RAM - Soldered in SSD - No available schematics for repair - Apple declares almost every model "vintage" at six years, preventing repairs and further OS upgrades In conclusion, if someone is willing to take all this abuse when Apple clearly tells them "FU," what should an observer think? To me, it says: SJ is gone, a bean counter and a Bentley-chauffeured designer don't have a clue, so it's time to give up on Apple's computers until they find some vision and awareness.
- innocentoldguy 8y ago
  Hello, I can see why some of the things on this list might be frustrating for some users. To offer a different perspective, I actually like many of the things you consider "tasteless garbage." For example: 1. I like Apple's low-profile keyboards. As I get older, I find myself suffering more and more from RSIs unless my keyboard is absolutely flat and I don't have to lift my fingers too much to hit the keys. Before I started using Apple computers, I'd buy TypeMatrix and low-profile Logitec keyboards for the same reason. Apple's low-profile keyboards feel pretty good to me. I cannot use mice anymore either, and there isn't anything on the market that compares to Apple's trackpads (both built-in and external). 2. When I buy a laptop or desktop, I always max it out with memory at the time of purchase, so I don't really care about removable RAM. Even on machines I build myself, I max out the RAM and never touch it again. Since soldered-on memory (and batteries and SSDs for that matter) result in a slimmer profile and less weight, I prefer this in a laptop. I can see why this would be an issue for some though. 3. I think, the "Apple products are too expensive" argument is largely a myth. Maybe other people have different experiences but I've used both Windows and Apple computers throughout my career and my Windows machines are always more expensive over time. When I buy an Apple laptop, the OS and all supported updates are free, productivity tools and all supported updates are free, the best version Apple has to offer of its development environment is free, and most of the other software I use is a lot cheaper than similar Windows products. Apple machines may cost me more up front (which isn't always the case), but Windows machines have always cost me more in the long run due to the cost of software and upgrades. For example, buying VisualStudio's standard subscription alone adds $1,199 to the cost of my Windows computer the first year and $799 every year after, easily eating up any savings I may have had at the time of my original purchase. If I want to update Windows at some point, that costs more as well. Productivity tools are now subscription based and add to the cost over time, too. I typically use a laptop for three years and then buy a new one. I've always spent more on my Windows laptops during those three-year periods than I have on my Apple computers. My use case is probably different that other people, so this may not hold true for everyone. 4. I've been using Apple laptops since 2007 and never had a problem. I know there have been publicized failures (just like there have for Dell, HP, and components for DIY computers), but I'm pretty happy with Apples 12 year track record with me personally. 5. I've never used a dongle on my MPB. I do have some USB devices (e.g. audio interfaces), but I just bought a couple of cheap USB-C to USB-B cords. No need for expensive dongles. I guess that's the price of progress. I don't use my serial/parallel port cords anymore either. I'm not saying you don't have some legitimate complaints. I'm just saying my experience and opinions have been different. I've always been satisfied with my Apple purchases.

rachelbythebay 8y ago

Guessing here, but ... CLOCK_MONOTONIC for the win?

Slartie 8y ago
Would guess that as well. Very common error, which comes in many fashions and which can be made in practically any language. I'm mostly working in Java, where it's the same thing with System.currentTimeMillis() used instead of System.nanoTime() to measure and/or enforce timespans (because "you know, nanoseconds are so unwieldy, and milliseconds are so nice on the eyes, and I only needed millisecond precision...and anyway, who on earth would change the clock while our software is running...").

_asummers 8y ago

Semi-related: But does anyone know why unplugging headphones while audio is muted causes the audio to become unmuted? This is easily my least favorite bug and results in a 10 second shuffle of frantically finding the mute button again, sometimes with the laptop closed. It seems like something that would never pass QA in previous iterations of Apple, though I could be remembering the past more fondly than was true.

godzilla82 8y ago
Have you tried reproducing this with other headphones, 2 channel ones etc.
- _asummers 8y ago
  I have not tried that, though I will experiment. It seems to be an issue with the latest OSX version (Mojave), as I cannot recall it happening on the last OSX major version (High Sierra?). I do not have new headphones across this version switch. As a workaround, I have to go to the audio app and explicitly pause, which I frequently forget to do if the audio is muted. My desk mates have heard way more samples of my library than they'd like, I'm sure.
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Not sure if it's present in OS X, but I know at least iOS has impedance memory, so it'll recognize specific headphones and set the volume to what it was last at when they were plugged in. It's a really nice feature.
  - shorts_theory 8y ago
    TIL. That's really cool.
dahfizz 8y ago
Was the audio unmuted last time the headphones were unplugged? I don't have any apple hardware but this is a common feature of Android. Your laptop might remember the state "speakers are on but headphones are muted". So when you remove headphones, it switches to the speakers and starts playing.

mrinterweb 8y ago

I have a 2017 MBP, and it regularly has audio issues, among other issues. Sometimes I'm able to kill the audio daemon, and get my audio back. Other times I have to reboot (sometimes I have to reset the PRAM in order to get audio back). I have audio problems at least once a week. I know two other people with 2017 MBPs that have the same regular issues I do. I assume there are many more. I feel that recent Apple laptops are no longer premium machines regardless of the premium price tag.

0xADEADBEE 8y ago
I'd agree with this. I don't recall backlash against Apple products to the extent I've seen in places like this over the last two years, ever. I don't think anyone can argue against the notion that the quality of hardware and software is much lower than previous models of basically anything in their range and I don't think I'll buy another Apple product outside of a replacement iPad, so presumably there's some sort of change afoot. It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out; so called 'techies' are often the people family and friends consult for advice on new purchases, and if we're not recommending Apple products, will that make a difference? I don't think they care - they're rich enough not to worry, perhaps, but it's still odd to alienate a demographic this way. I'm sure they know something I don't!
jonaswouters 8y ago
I had a 2017 MBP and the USB speakers I had caused issues. I sold them thinking it was an issue with the speakers, but the next set of USB speakers had the same problem. Eventually, I just used AUX to connect them.
- mrinterweb 8y ago
  The sound issues I've been running into are not limited to a single type of output. When the sound is out on my computer it is out for internal speakers, Bluetooth, HDMI, USB, and 3.5mm AUX.

quack_quack 8y ago

Wow, another two minute hate. Thanks, HN. Doubleplus helpful.

mishurov 8y ago

Humans don't use Apple. Monkeys will defend it anyway. So why care?

docker_up 8y ago

Apple appears to be coming to some sort of head at this point. This is speaking as someone heavily invested in Apple products and shares. Their iPhones have reached a peak, where it appears people are no longer willing to pay so much for them. They are too damn expensive, with nothing to justify their costs. I am one of the morons who upgraded to the XS, but only because I needed the 512GB storage. If not for the increased storage needs, I wouldn't have upgraded and I know for a fact there is really no difference after using it for several months. I have no plans on updating to the next one, the first time since iPhone 3. MacBooks are worse now than they were since 2015. I won't upgrade until they get rid of the TouchBar. I would rather go back to Windows than use that stupid TouchBar. Apple software is terrible. iTunes is still the worst piece of software that I'm forced to use. The bugs they've had are inexcusable. Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their engineers top wages, they are wasting it on stock buybacks. Until their revenues decrease year-over-year they won't change their ways. To put it bluntly, Apple is extremely, extremely arrogant and I hope they will pay their price in the next few years. It feels like all product lines are either too expensive and/or worse quality than even a few years previous. Many people unhappy or unimpressed with their products, but they don't give a damn.

mk89 8y ago
>Apple is the richest company in the world, and instead of paying their engineers top wages, Any numbers saying that they earn just an average salary? Also, why would the touchbar be an engineering issue? Some people like it. (I don't) I do understand your concerns and I agree with some of them, I just don't believe it's because they pay their engineers less, or they are not good enough. Some decisions come from top management. If there is only capacity to fix 10 bugs, well, that's it. I don't even see this large amount of features delivered on a monthly basis, so I assume their plan is really to invest just on their iPhones and hardware, maybe.
- adrianhel 8y ago
  The engineering issue is a lack of accidental touch sensing. Mac did this with the caps lock key (which is arguably easier to implement). The feature feels half baked.

lowlevel 8y ago

Generally, pro-audio users lag behind on OS updates and hardware updates. Apple generally has problems with audio with every new generation, and this is nothing new. When you count on something to work, you tend to buy the old models.. you tend to run the previous known good OS... you tend to avoid updating anything as much as possible. This is only getting worse as apples software and hardware quality are severely degrading over the past few years. Pro users are leaving left right and center.

ascar 8y ago

Can someone provide a good quality example of code that would bug on system clock updates? I have a hard time thinking about one. Especially as these system clock updates shouldn't change the time for more than a few seconds, at least if you have automatic updates turned on (and the fix in the article is to turn that off). I'm not interested in examples that shouldn't have made it through a merge request in the first place. It's not about the actual bug that happened here, but more about general things to think about that can go wrong with system time updates. I can think about two main use cases for system time: Measuring time elapsed, most notably for timeouts, and scheduling something in the future (which can be done with a timestamp instead of time elapsed). Maybe I'm already missing some important ones here. In the time elapsed use case a time shift into the future might delay something for these few seconds, which shouldn't result in more than a lag. A shift into the past might trigger a timeout, but a timeout that triggers on a few seconds should be a handled error. In the schedule use case a time shift into the future shouldn't make any difference. You can't assume it's run at exact times anyway and always use "should happen after", i.e. greater than timestamp. A time shift into the past might only delay it a bit, still no reason for a bug. What am I missing?

spiralganglion 8y ago
I believe I’ve had this issue, manifesting as skips and glitches only a fraction of a second long, like a pop or click. Total conjecture apropos of nothing, this issue could be that the system clock update does something synchronous or blocking in the T2, introducing a very brief interruption to audio scheduling.
vortico 8y ago
This bug is caused by the Mac time daemon stealing 10ms+ of resources from the scheduler (perhaps because of it being a wrong thread priority, or the clock hardware taking a very long time to respond to an update request? who knows), not because audio drivers use the real time value for any reason (they don't).

fcvarela 8y ago

As frustrated with Apple as the next person, but I have never experienced this using a bunch of interfaces and devices with their own clock source...

rock_artist 8y ago

I'm a former full-time musician working as an audio dev those days. Developing audio-plugins (AU) make you use a lot of DAWs (digital-audio-workstations). There's some issue with Logic Pro X that has been logged for quite a while now. A few days ago I heard the reason it isn't addressed for more than a year now... The developer in-charge on that feature isn't allowed to access other parts of code needed for fixing the issue. Apple quality-control in the past years has been totally wracked. What concerns me isn't this issue, but the future of it: - it might won't be fixed at all! (arghghgh) - it might be fixed after very long time (and who know maybe they'll break or regress something else).

jamesb93 8y ago
Did you ever come across how they map parameters inside the VST/AU standard? Everyone else does 0 -> 1. They do 1 -> 120 or something completely boffed.
- btown 8y ago
  I'm not surprised given Logic's legacy baggage from the days eMagic was an independent company. Everything was stored in an event list, which would try to fit many things into MIDI-like terminology. Not surprised if they tried to quantize parameters for software instruments the way they would for hardware instruments, and this has stayed the case almost two decades later.
- missjellyfish 8y ago
  AFAIK it‘s 1 to 127 because of MIDI.
  - jamesb93 8y ago
    I distinctly remember it being not the MIDI standard, and it was really frustrating. I'll report back if I look at it again.
pier25 8y ago
I've used Logic since 2004 and quite frankly in its current state it seems Apple is barely keeping it alive for old users much like Motion which hasn't seen a major release since 2011.

adrianhel 8y ago

What is happening with Macs? My butterfly keyboard repeats keys. This easily halves my typing speed. (Or rather "Itt easily halves my ttyping speed") Yesterday my machine got stuck booting with a black screen after running out of battery with the backlight turned off. Also, the keyboards have gone from making virtually no sound to making loud clicking sounds. I have also had a glitch where the sound gets distorted.

MattBearman 8y ago
Depending on your Macbook's age and your location, you may be able to get the keyboard replaced due to sticking keys. I ended up getting a brand new MBP when they repeatedly fucked up repairing my sticking keyboard. Obviously it would be better if the keyboards didn't break so easily to begin with, but at least you may not have to put up with it :)
- rbanffy 8y ago
  Once I entered an Apple store with a cracked case (white MacBook fell from the table). I left with a brand new lower part (hard disk excepted - they moved mine to the new machine) for free. There was a recall for the case, IIRC, one for the upper palm rest (something to do with magnets that made the plastic crack) and they replaced the keyboard for no reason. I have to say Apple's support experience is stellar. I can't imagine having that with a Dell or Lenovo.
  - rerx 8y ago
    With Lenovo you would get the 3 years onsite warranty with accidental damage protection at the time of purchase. Then a technician will come to your office or home and to replace the broken parts of your Thinkpad. That beats having to go to an Apple store IMO.
  - slezyr 8y ago
    There is no Apple stores in some countries or only in some cities. Often, Apple costs even more there. You can order parts from aliexpress and replace on your own if it's Lenovo.

aqibgatoo 8y ago

I have been frustrated by it..as of writing this comment the speakers have gone dumb...

satysin 8y ago

Interesting as I don't seem to have this issue on the two 2018 MBP I've had. Originally I had a release day i7/32GB/1TB/560X model but it had a power/charging issue so Apple replaced it with an i9 model which has been perfect. I have worried a lot about the keyboard breaking but so far it has been fine. I actually really like working on it now with the exception of the TouchBar which is the most useless change to keyboard design in years. I really enjoy this laptop. I bought it after two years of pain buying, replacing and ultimately returning sub-par Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Microsoft. Apple gets a lot of hate in the tech press (and regular press sometimes) whereas people seem to accept far worse issues from only-slightly-cheaper Dell, Microsoft, etc. laptops. The Dell XPS 15 9570 has far worse audio issues (DPC latency, crackling/popping speakers), coil whine on the majority of units shipped, keyboard issues (ironically I had more keyboard issues with my XPS 15) and much worse thermal throttling compared to the MBP 2018. Sleep issues (honestly just support S3 ffs) I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. From thermal throttling, constant BSOD/crashing when de/reattaching the performance base, pen input skipping and a whole host of silly-but-annoying software issues and of course sleep issues because not even Microsoft's own hardware works properly with their new S0i3 Connected Standby crap. The MBP isn't perfect. The constant anxiety that something will kill the keyboard sucks but on the whole it is without a doubt the best modern laptop I have used in that it has the least issues. It sleeps when I close the lid, it also comes back on instantly, it never needs to be rebooted to get things working again, screen is stunning, runs cool and quiet when not being pushed with no random spinning up of the fans for a few minutes, etc.

rsynnott 8y ago
> I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. I mean, to an extent you expect that from Microsoft (certainly their whole Surface line has been pretty buggy). People are more annoyed at similar issues with Macs because historically they haven't had them (or at least have had them less than other vendors). To be honest, I suspect the 2018 MBPs _still_ have fewer weird issues than most of the competition (imagine how Apple users would react if it routinely shipped with coil whine, or the sort of screen quality issues that are common on the Surface line...) but it definitely feels like Apple have slipped a bit, and given that their whole thing was always "it just works", that's not great.

StreamBright 8y ago

Among other problems. IPv6 is not impossible to be disabled and few other minor annoyances.

rbanffy 8y ago

Isn't this being blown out of proportion? Can't it be simply repaired by a firmware update?

iceninenines 8y ago

Not surprised after watching Louis Rossmann's rants and demos of brand new MBP's failing. Glad I bought a Lenovo T480 on-sale rather than deal with an overpriced loaf Apple pinched out lately.

doktrin 8y ago

Apple's latest macs have all kinds of bugs and glitches that I can't remember ever being present in ~2010-2015 MBPs, including but not limited to what's mentioned here (the already-shoddy keyboard being taken out by a spec of dust, speakers blowing out entirely, screen develops massive artifacts / heat damage from closing lid "too early", fan is a permanent 747 ready for takeoff, on and on and on). The quality of their laptops is sub-par relative to the price point. At this point, the software / OS is the strongest selling point (to me, at least), but my patience is wearing thin and at a certain point I'd rather just go back to Linux rather than deal with this absurd form-over-function design-uber-alles paradigm they've embraced.

dep_b 8y ago

The advice to just run to Windows for pro audio uses is really something I wouldn't like to be accounted for. Sure, I had a stable rig with tight MIDI and audio decades ago but I was a pretty huge geek and started with quality components to begin with (the Asus P2B was almost godlike in performance and stability) with of course just a bit of good old luck.

imdsm 8y ago

I recently bought a new MacBook Air, and it had an absolutely terrible keyboard, and had a horrible high pitched whine. I sent it back within a few hours and got a refund. So now I still have my Late 2013 MBP (top spec) but I really want a new work machine. I've looked at a few Apple alternatives with the intention of putting linux on them but they are all so ugly or bulky. Is it so hard for laptop designers to create decent looking machines?

andmarios 8y ago
I have a Huawei Matebook X Pro and I like it. There are many things to like about it but the one that stands out for me is the 3:2 ratio screen. No matter how much Dell and Lenovo call their offerings professional, I just can't see a professional working on a 13" 16:9 screen. Things I don't like about the Matebook is that the warranty and repair services are basically unknowns, there is no next business day, on-site warranty and of course, they aren't battle tested —though quality issues seem to be all the more common for Lenovo, Dell an Apple nowadays. Had a friend joke the other day _your Huawei is the only one sure to keep working, its main purpose is surveillance and if it brokes down, it can't perform its duty_. :)

graeme 8y ago

As someone who just bought an imac pro for audio/video recording, this is deeply disappointing. Has anyone found that this workaround on reddit solved the issue? https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs_with_t2_chip_unusable_with_external/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/anvufc/psa_2018_macs... On a forum linked in the cdm.link article someone mentioned blocking the time services via firewall: is there a list of everything needed to be blocked?

obituary_latte 8y ago

I just bought a new Mac Pro after spending over a year trying to fix audio/performance issues. Posting on stack exchange, apple forums, and endless googling proved fruitless. I tried every possible reset (nvram et al) and even created a new account (which seemed to help for a while until the issue came back after a month or so oddly). I had such a spark of hope when I saw this title. Alas, my fix for coreaudio HALC_ProxyIOContext::IOWorkLoop: skipping cycle due to overload Audio still eludes me.

dharma1 8y ago

Honestly, I'm really disappointed with Apple for pro use lately. 1) not testing stuff thoroughly - the i9 mbpro overheating saga ("fixed" by firmware upgrade), this T2 usb2 dropout (which probably isn't fixable at all) - unacceptable. 2) releasing significant GPU upgrade 2 months after a flagship mbpro release - I and many others were screwed by buying the latest and greatest (the most expensive laptop I've ever bought) only to be obsoleted 2 months later by 90% faster GPU that doesn't overheat, with no chance for customer exchange at that point. Inexcusable, I pay the Apple premium to avoid crap like this, now I'm wondering what I am paying 2x for?

S_A_P 8y ago
Which mbpro are you referring to on the GPU upgrade? Ive not been keeping up. I will add that the T2 chip seems to be a solution looking to create a problem. I had a lot of grief with my iMac Pro and the T2 chip causing kernel panics. I had to re install Mac OS and that seemed to resolve it for the most part. I use my imac pro for audio so Im thankful I have a thunderbolt interface. If I had spent that 5k for a space grey paperweight I think I would be pretty furious.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  The 2018 Macbook Pro (introducted in July) got an update with Vega graphics in October https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-graphics-options-macbook-pro https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18042572/apple-amd-vega-...
013a 8y ago
Most recently, I'd also include the "iPad Pro Shipping Without A Headphone Jack". It's different than ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone, which is mostly just an inconvenience and wireless headphones are becoming more popular anyway. Music production is literally one of their big advertising markets for the iPad, with a vast array of applications available. Wireless headphones are unusable for music production (not just quality, but also latency) (not Apple's fault, its just bluetooth). So if I want to mess around and make some sounds, I need a dongle for my headphones; and most often, I need a full expensive USB-C hub because I need a second USB-C port for charging. So now, you've got a hub to get two USB-C ports, then you've got a USB-C -> 3.5 dongle on one of them (some USB-C hubs have built-in 3.5 ports, but these don't generally support audio passthrough, and the DACs inside the hub are shit compared to Apple's official ones). If you've ever owned a big USB-C hub like this, you'll know that they get Hot. Like, "that's uncomfortable to touch" Hot. All they had to do is put two USB-C ports on it. That's fine; I get that headphone jacks are thick and "last gen". But they couldn't even do that.

exabrial 8y ago

Every mainstage user :/

sramsay 8y ago

From the article: "Issues with the way the new chip synchronizes timing causes dropouts and glitches in the audio stream. (It seems basically all USB 2.0 audio interfaces will be impacted. This of course unfortunately leads users to blame their interface manufacturer, but the fault lies with Apple.)" As someone who works with a lot of pro audio gear on the Mac, I can say that it's hard to describe what a show stopper this is. Glitches and dropouts are a catastrophic problem for almost anything involving sound, and they're right: If you're having those kinds of problems, you run immediately to the interface manufacturer. Still, I'm not sure many people using pro-grade audio interfaces (mine cost almost as much as the computer itself) are still using the USB 2.0 bus. Thunderbolt has been pretty enthusiastically embraced by the industry.

lowlevel 8y ago
I'm still using firewire.
pier25 8y ago
> Still, I'm not sure many people using pro-grade audio interfaces are still using the USB 2.0 bus Audio AD/DA hasn't changed a lot in the past 10-15 years. A good USB 2 interface is still perfectly valid as long as the manufacturer provides drivers. For example the legendary RME Babyface Pro.
- sramsay 8y ago
  That's true. RME (definitely on the high end) is remarkably good about supporting a wide variety of connection technologies. Include Firewire.

tsp 8y ago

I am / was heavily invested in Apple hardware as well (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad). I recently switched to an Android phone, because the price-point of buying a new iPhone is just not justifiable any more. Android feels a bit spammy, but overall it does what I need it to do. I will stick with Android for now. I was looking at the iPad Pro recently, because I could need a second screen when I’m working e.g. from a co-working space. It looks beautiful, but things like no-headphone jack makes it too much trouble for me. I don’t want to bring my dongles all the time. As others have mentioned using Bluetooth headphones for music production just isn’t good enough because of latency. Also I prefer having devices without a battery. Less to think about when leaving the house. I am using my MacBook Pro 2014 daily for 10+ for work and as a private computer. It’s about time to upgrade for me, because I could save quite a lot of time with a faster CPU. While I would love to have a more powerful device running macOS (so a newer MacBook Pro), from what I heard they are just worse than my 2014 MacBook Pro. I still use a lot of USB 2/3 devices, I want a keyboard, which feels good and does not get broken easily. I don’t care about it being thin at all. I want performance and an SD slot. Because it is clear that there is no such machine produces by Apple right now (and probably in the future) I had to look for alternatives. The Surface Book 2 by Microsoft is really interesting. They even have a Nvidia GPU, which can be used for Deep Learning and graphical experiments. A big advantage over the GPUs used by Apple imo. Sadly from all what I hear Windows 10 just isn’t good enough to use it daily as a programmer. I spend many hours researching and found a lot of comments from former macOS user who switched. Windows will (still) drive you nuts if you are used to things just working they say. The only alternative, Linux, would mean a serious commitment to figuring out stuff by myself, spending time making my system work. I am currently stuck with macOS, and therefore my laptop from 2014. I’m quite sure I will switch to another OS in the next two years, but it is hard to figure out which is the better option for me.

bndw 8y ago
In my experience I spend most of my time in a terminal emulator or a web browser. Windows runs Docker these days, so theoretically you could avoid toolchain annoyance. Windows also has Firefox. But, YMMV (written from a macbook)
- 8y ago

geden 8y ago

Have had many issues with USB2 RME pro audio interfaces and recent Macs, the most serious of which RME was able to overcome (for us) in the v3.13 driver. More of a long term problem is the fact that USB C/TB3 is a totally unsuitable connector for professional use. It's far too prone to coming out of the port through lack of locking mechanism, insufficient friction. On MBPs the ports also wear very quickly.

dwrodri 8y ago

If you've never read Andrew Grover's "Only The Paranoid Survive" I highly recommend it. It really appears that Apple has reached an inflection point where they need to fix the core product design lifecycle. I think it's very possible that the C-level execs and the board of directors don't realize the pressing issues from the outside. Sure, the typical software engineer isn't their target demographic. But I would argue that tech-oriented users should be the bellwether for key issues related to performance and usability since as a demographic they tend to do things that will identify the flaws of your product.

mmfl 8y ago

Apple definitely have a major issue here - I upgraded from the 2016 MBP to 2018 MBP (max'ed out specs in both cases apart from SSD size) and audio dropouts etc when using Mainstage for live performance with virtual instruments (sound sources) have increased greatly. I'm a (piano) keyboard player and low buffer sizes and latency (<5 ms) are essential for turning my MBP into a responsive and expressive musical instrument. Unfortunately such settings reveal harshly the huge degradation in audio performance that has occurred and I am not any longer be prepared to use my MBP in a live performance situation. (Even if a larger buffer size reduces the dropouts I don't want to play an unresponsive instrument.) It's just ridiculous to see my powerful MBP running at very low percentage CPU utilisation and performing so badly. Interestingly yes I experience issues with my USB2 interface (RME Babyface Pro) but also when using the MBP's headphone jack or the interface via USB ports on my LG Ultrafine 5K monitor (which has its own USB chip). I do wonder if the root issue may be along the lines of this poster's theory about poorly written Apple driver code (since Apple probably wrote new driver code to accommodate T2): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&postcount=4 https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=13492144&post...

tempodox 8y ago

> But more alarming is that this is another serious quality control fumble from Apple. The value proposition with Apple always been that the company’s control over its own hardware, software, and industrial engineering meant a more predictable product. I can't believe they don't know that themselves and act accordingly. How much more incentive do you need? What the heck is going on at Apple?