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Muscle memory discovery ends 'use it or lose it' dogma
- abledon 8y ago"the year is 2095 and it's my first day in 6th grade. Miss Mable is handing out our steroid candies so we will grow big and strong then have a 'bank' of muscle memory to rely on in our secondary and tertiary life stages."
- gameswithgo 8y agoi hope in 2095 we have more targeted ways to do that.
- LeonB 8y agoA lot of progress was slowed by 50 years of mind-warfare.
- crooked-v 8y agoLook up Emsculpt. It's a fascinating/creepy new device that artificially stimulates core muscular contractions, with visibly more exercised and defined muscles after a few sessions with no changes in lifestyle.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoOne of the benefits of lifting heavy things repeatedly over time is increased bone density. Do we know if devices like Emsculpt work to improve bone density? I don't know how the cell-signalling cascade works for putting more calcium-mineral matrix in bones so maybe muscle contraction repetition initiates the cascade, or maybe it's insufficient by itself? Full range of movement training also works to shift lymph back toward the left subclavian vein where it joins venous circulation.[1] The lymphatic system is the primary cellular waste product transport system, and an immune organ in it's own right. From what I read about the place this is a significantly understated feature of exercise and plays a key role in the idea that bed rest is massively counter productive in convalescences and post surgery recovery / outcomes. 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subclavian_vein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subclavian_vein
- ovi256 8y agoThe mechanism you'll find described in the literature for increasing bone density is through heavy stress (compression) on bones. Your muscles aren't positioned to compress like that anyway. Only heavy weights can. The stress very lightly damages the bone matrix, which is then repaired to above the previous strength.
- matwood 8y agoCorrect. Boxers encourage this to happen in their knuckles through things like knuckle pushups. Muy Thai fighters will 'roll' their shins with a bar to cause the same light bone damage.
- codingdave 8y agoTENS units have been around for decades. Every once in a while someone tries to turn it into an exercise machine, but this is mostly marketing, not anything new.
- crooked-v 8y agoThis thing is more like a modified MRI machine than a TENS device, which part of the fascinating/creepy quality for me. It's something like orders of magnitude more powerful than TENS.
- OvidNaso 8y agoIt's a pulsed electromagnetic device (PEMF) and they have also been around quite ahile. While they've been show to aid bone growth and they probably help recovery in some other, subtle, ways...EMSculpt is classic snakeoil bullshit.
- whatshisface 8y agoI use my motor neurons to electrically stimulate muscle contraction and it doesn't cost me anything. I mean come on... the wires are already hooked up right in to your brain...
- EamonnMR 8y agoBut it requires discipline, while attaching wires to yourself does not.
- janekm 8y agoAs many people who bought previous muscle stimulation "as seen on tv" devices bought, it certainly does still require discipline to shock your muscles for an hour or so daily ;)
- sundvor 8y agoI'm going to argue that it would be easier to just go and squat out those 5x5s. The size of the squat rack is another issue however.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoAlso if your diet is shit and your gut hangs out over the top of your trousers electrically stimulating your abs isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference aesthetically. At least by actually lifting you're also burning calories.
- yorwba 8y agoElectrically stimulating your abs also burns calories. Using your muscles requires energy, no matter whether they're activated artificially or not.
- norswap 8y agoThe device reportedly causes 20.000 contractions in 30 minutes. And apparently, it's not only volume but also intensity that does the trick. Good luck doing this with you brain, professor.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoDo we know if intense weight training combined with cardio workout during childhood and adolescence works to build a life time of improved musculoskeletal outcomes? Has anyone done a longitudinal study in this area?
- z3t4 8y agoThe strength (and cardio) gains you make as a child will stay. But if you stop training they will go away. But when you however start training again you will have faster gains due to prior training. It all depends on how much you train during your life. While you are the strongest around 30 years old, you will keep most of it until 60 years old if you keep on training. While there are definitely advantages to have been training as a child, I don't think it will be significant when you are 40-50, it will more depend on how active you are during your life. And it's really never too late to start training.
- RandomInteger4 8y agoSteroids are not recommended in boys still going through puberty. The surge in testosterone from the puberty itself is enough to provide this effect, because you take advantage of peak test production to produce more muscular nuclei. This is probably also why my chest is overdeveloped compared to my back, because I was doing hundreds of pushups back then while neglected any sense of balance sadly.
- jjeaff 8y agoThis is also evidenced in the endless submissions to r/fitness on Reddit where 17-19 year olds post their before and after pics bragging about how they didn't use any steroids and when asked about diet, they "just tried to eat healthy". Puberty releases all natural steroids.
- cc81 8y agoYeah, that is true but also note that a lot of people in that age DO use steroids but no one admits it. The whole fitness industry is built on people on steroids trying sell others that they are not on steroids. Except heavy weight bodybuilding of course where it is too obvious.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoAlso "vegan" bodybuilders who made all their gains while they were still meat eaters.
- ehnto 8y agoIt's a shame all the supplement brands use heavy weight bodybuilders as their mascots, because if there were any discipline where supplements alone just won't cut it, it's for anyone aspiring to be Mr Olympia. The vast majority of people could get away with real food and regular training to reach their actual fitness goals; not many people want to be as big as Ronnie Coleman. But if you do want to be a competitive bodybuilder in America, you're going to need more than supplements. The fitness industry also did a great job of convincing people that supplements are the cause of, not an aid, to muscle growth. I was in the ER once for a broken finger, and the poor kid next to me had been to the ER twice that month for stomach pains, and it turned out he had been sitting at his computer slamming down 10 protein shakes a day and doing nothing else. Just one of many similar anecdotes from when I worked in the industry.
- hirundo 8y agoFrom Wikipedia's description of muscle memory: > When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. But this article is about enhanced muscle recovery and volume, not about motor learning. I wonder if that's an abuse of the term "muscle memory" or just a different sense. I'm not finding that sense used in a quick search. But the term is also used in the review paper that this article is about, so apparently it has a specialized sense in that discipline. According to Wikipedia muscle memory as retained skills isn't about muscle fibers, but neurons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory
- andreareina 8y agoIt's in common usage in the strength and conditioning communities.
- Fricken 8y agoDeveloping muscle strength is mostly about training and growing the nerves in your muscles to engage more muscle cells when they fire. If your muscles could fire maximally they'd be strong enough to rip tendon from bone.
- wastman 8y agoSource? This is very interesting
- HeadsUpHigh 8y agoAnd partially incorrect. This is indeed the case for the first few weeks of strength training. In the beginning your body learns to recruit and better utilize the existing muscles you have. But after that the long and slow process of building new muscle mass starts. The CNS adaptation( i.e. the first part) never goes away. That's the reason why if you have trained in the past for at least a couple months and now you restart your training your new starting weights will be higher than your old ones.
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- empath75 8y agoThis explains how Christian Bale is able to do what he does, gaining and losing weight for roles.
- dilyevsky 8y agoPed use is sort of an open secret in hollywood
- Rapzid 8y agoYes. This doesn't feel new to me. I was just researching last year on "muscle memory" trying to understand what I could expect by getting back to lifting myself from an actual science and study point of view. This versus the bro-science-cum-common-wisdom of muscle memory. What I was turning up didn't seem particularly new, but the consensus seemed to be you could expect return to previous performance levels(in strength anyway) in about 12 weeks or so of proper training and diet.. Almost regardless of how long you have been off. Obviously there are exceptions and extremes that probably don't play out that way, but this has also been about my experience of on-and-off again body building and strength training for the past 15 years. Often the nervous system recovers too fast in my experience. One can ramp up work effort way faster than the muscles and tendons are prepared for, particularly stabilizing components, resulting in strains and pains. Sticking to a ramp up plan is, IMHO, almost as hard as quitting smoking but crucial.
- Invictus0 8y agoThis is a pretty disconcerting study. What's to stop athletes from using steroids if this is the case? Use steroids to train to a PR, take some time off to let the steroids leave the body, and then just recoup those gains. I think we will start to see this happening in competitive sports, especially in countries like the Dominican Republic, where recruitment into the MLB can pull an entire family out of poverty; I'm not sure that it will be possible to do anything about it.
- hellllllllooo 8y agoI genuinely question why people are so concerned if people use science to achieve better results at sports. It often seems like some kind of puritanical moral outrage over drugs. Edit: I understand the reasoning behind why testing is done. I just question if it is really led by safety concerns, fairness and science or just our default knee-jerk "drugs are bad" culture. There are plenty of other safety concerns in sport that are ignored.
- eloff 8y agoI think it's more about having a level playing field so that drugs aren't the norm. But for spectator sports, it's probably more exciting when all the players are artificially enhanced with drugs into mutant gorillas. Sucks for the players though.
- eldaberino7 8y agoAgreed. Silicon valley tech bros microdose or take nutropics and everyone cheers, but a professional athlete takes some testosterone and suddenly there is outrage?
- 6nf 8y agoWe don’t want people doing damage to their long term health just for entertainment for the rest of us
- Mirioron 8y agoBut when you look at some sports, that's exactly what doing that sport on a professional level does.
- wmil 8y agoHere's an interesting question. If it's proven that there are long term benefits to moderate steroid use, is it ethical to ban them for non competitive athletes?
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- nostalgiac 8y agoUnfortunately it's not proven; nor is it completely risk-free. But let's assume it was, I don't think ethics ever came into question when making substances illegal.
- CryoLogic 8y agoDepends on the drug. Testosterone is very well studied and has been for decades.
- nostalgiac 8y agoThere is still a huge lack of information regarding long term (or even short term) exogenous Testosterone usage - and again, it's definitely not without risks or unforeseen circumstances - this is for both low and high dosages.
- ekanes 8y agoUnless I'm misunderstanding, I don't think steroids are banned for non-competitive athletes. Who would test them and why? They're not competing anywhere.
- atoav 8y agoWhen I started playing an instrument again, that I stopped playing ten years ago, all came back. Ofc you need some muscles to play it well (especially when you play something demanding on a bass), but it felt like riding a bike after a long winter.
- scruple 8y agoI'm 15 years removed from the last time I played the Saxophone. I've been thinking about picking one up again recently. I'm hopeful that with some dilligence I could get back to where I was without too much trouble.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoAgreed. As a finger picker my main issue with taking long breaks from bass is the lack of finger callouses!
- ptidhomme 8y agoSame here, I'm currently experiencing this and it's very impressive. After 15 years not playing the guitar, it's been 1 month since I've started again and it's like everything is coming back really fast, even some good practices I had mentally forgotten.
- Shmebulock 8y agoAre there any safe, easy to acquire steroids that I can use once so that I can gain the long term benefits?
- stefanmichael 8y agoif you are male you can go to a testosterone therapy clinic and essentially just say that you are tired and or depressed and get prescribed 200mg of testosterone per week
- vanderZwan 8y agoFrom age 12 to 18, I biked 20 km to school and back every day. It's been two decades with a very sedentary life style and the occasional attempt of trying to get in shape. I notice every time that my legs regain strength a lot faster than any other part of my body.
- drakonka 8y agoI've read about this concept somewhere before and found it really inspiring. I would think that knowing that my gains are "preserved" in some form would actually make me more lazy since I'm less afraid of completely reverting all progress, but in reality it just drives me more to build a nice bank for the future. It's super cool knowing that the effort you put in now will keep paying off years down the line, makes working out feel less futile somehow on an emotional level...
- tomp 8y agoJust be aware that (allegedly) your "fat gains" are also preserved - fat cells are only created, never destroyed, and those that exist, even if you starve them and they become smaller (i.e. lose fat/reduce body fat percentage), they'd still get "fat" much easier than growing new fat cells. Or this might all just be bro-science, you never know ...
- maxmcorp 8y agoThere is some debate about this. Cells live for about 7 years, so after that the fat cells should also dissapear. Autophagy might also recycle empty fat cells.
- kypro 8y agoBeing a naturally skinny guy it took me ages to bulk up in my late teens and early twenties. I find it hard to motivate myself to get back in shape today because I know how hard it would be. But this has inspired me.
- drakonka 8y agoI think I can relate! I'm also a naturally skinny woman who started working on building up my fitness in my early 20s - first with running and now more with lifting. I have managed to stay relatively active throughout the ten years since, but sometimes do have lower activity periods when other things get in the way. After such a hiatus I have noticed that when I do ramp back up with the exercise I am able to get back up to my "fittest" levels and rebuild muscle much faster than the original effort. Now I am putting an effort into doing more running along with lifting again for the first time in years and even though I'm still not as fast as I used to be, I'm surprised at just how quickly the performance is improving, and how quickly my running form falls back into place.
- dublo7 8y agoHasn't this been known for a while? My personal trainer has a degree in this stuff and he was telling me muscle mitochondria never go away once grown and that was years ago.
- HeadsUpHigh 8y agoI thought it was the nucleus on the muscle cells, not the mitochondria but I might be wrong.
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